Thanks everyone, I am done.

[ZA Dater]

ZA.

 

You are developing an unhealthy obsession with this girl.

 

She doesn't want you. The best thing you can do now is just ignore her. Be polite when needed but leave her well alone. Carry on with your self improvements etc and work on your confidence and self esteem issues.

 

She may well notice you later but do not count on it.

 

AND to make matters worse the longer you are fixated on her, the longer you are walking around failing to notice all the lovely women who may be interested who may be just the one you are looking for.

 

It's find really, there is nobody I am missing trust me its just more of the same. The same type of person just they look different, the same interests, the same moulded by society, the same everything really.

 

You can't really expect me to think I am a catch when I can't even get one date never mind actually find anyone I like.

 

Exactly that, nobody wants me. Its an unfortunate but true reality that the only people who do are so undesirable to me I'd rather be on my own.

 

It's me who has to go to a black tie dinner on his own... Again. Everyone else has a partner, do that for ten years and tell me how you feel.

 

Sure I can lift weights get a six pack maybe, wears different clothes but really I doubt any of that is going to make much difference when i have nothing in common with anyone.

 

What am I good at, I am good at caring, just wish sometimes people cared enough to give me a chance.

[JuneJulySeptember]

It's find really, there is nobody I am missing trust me its just more of the same. The same type of person just they look different, the same interests, the same moulded by society, the same everything really.

 

You can't really expect me to think I am a catch when I can't even get one date never mind actually find anyone I like.

 

Exactly that, nobody wants me. Its an unfortunate but true reality that the only people who do are so undesirable to me I'd rather be on my own.

 

It's me who has to go to a black tie dinner on his own... Again. Everyone else has a partner, do that for ten years and tell me how you feel.

 

Sure I can lift weights get a six pack maybe, wears different clothes but really I doubt any of that is going to make much difference when i have nothing in common with anyone.

 

What am I good at, I am good at caring, just wish sometimes people cared enough to give me a chance.

 

It's just like that for some guys.

 

If I went online and tried to get ANY woman as a girlfriend, lets say a woman who was traditionally unattractive, with no education, a low paying job, several children, older, and never left the one little town she lives in, the chances are great that she still would not be attracted to me.

 

Now, I'm no Brad Pitt by any stretch of the imagination, but I am in good shape and run and exercise, have a graduate degree, a steady job, I've been out of the country, have done some interesting things, and I have a few talents. No 'extremely undesirable' woman would JUMP at the opportunity to date me. I can tell you that.

 

Now, I'm not saying this to bag on a hypothetical extremely unattractive woman. I'm trying to illustrate how the game works. You will get rejected by the extremely unattractive woman, but one day, you might be able to land a cute woman who has a pHd and likes traveling to South America to like you. Unfortunately, that day may or may never come.

 

Does it make sense? Attraction can be so random from women. They just like what they like, so you are going to have to go through massive amounts of rejection and lowering your 'standards' really won't help much.

 

Yes, the process stinks and it is shallow and it is not fair. Yes, I know you are getting rejected by many, many women at 'your level'. That's why I suggest taking yourself away from thinking about yourself and what you deserve and thinking about others away from dating.

 

If you buff yourself up, and get a graduate degree, and work on oozing charisma and you are still getting rejected by women (and I guarantee you will be), you will be even more pissed and unhappy.

Edited October 13, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[ZA Dater]

It's just like that for some guys.

 

If I went online and tried to get ANY woman as a girlfriend, lets say a woman who was traditionally unattractive, with no education, a low paying job, several children, older, and never left the one little town she lives in, the chances are great that she still would not be attracted to me.

 

Now, I'm no Brad Pitt by any stretch of the imagination, but I am in good shape and run and exercise, have a graduate degree, a steady job, I've been out of the country, have done some interesting things, and I have a few talents. No 'extremely undesirable' woman would JUMP at the opportunity to date me. I can tell you that.

 

Now, I'm not saying this to bag on a hypothetical extremely unattractive woman. I'm trying to illustrate how the game works. You will get rejected by the extremely unattractive woman, but one day, you might be able to land a cute woman who has a pHd and likes traveling to South America to like you. Unfortunately, that day may or may never come.

 

Does it make sense? Attraction can be so random from women. They just like what they like, so you are going to have to go through massive amounts of rejection and lowering your 'standards' really won't help much.

 

Yes, the process stinks and it is shallow and it is not fair. Yes, I know you are getting rejected by many, many women at 'your level'. That's why I suggest taking yourself away from thinking about yourself and what you deserve and thinking about others away from dating.

 

If you buff yourself up, and get a graduate degree, and work on oozing charisma and you are still getting rejected by women (and I guarantee you will be), you will be even more pissed and unhappy.

 

So the solution really is to pay people to go out with you? I do have a degree. I'd just like some success, anything just say OK i am improving

[JuneJulySeptember]

So the solution really is to pay people to go out with you? I do have a degree. I'd just like some success, anything just say OK i am improving

 

There is no solution.

 

Women are really being insincere when they tell you to improve.

 

That's not how it works. When you lack something for a job ... a degree, a certificate, a certain amount of experience, you can come back with those credentials and get that job.

 

When you get rejected by a woman, you don't ask her "Well, what was I lacking?" If it truly were that way, then you could go down the list of A, B, C, D, accomplish those things and then she would be happy to have you. That's not how it works 98% of the time. And all of us know that to be true.

 

In the meantime, you are beating yourself and making yourself unhappier.

[serial muse]

It's find really, there is nobody I am missing trust me its just more of the same. The same type of person just they look different, the same interests, the same moulded by society, the same everything really.

 

What do you mean by this, exactly?

 

I honestly am at the same place I was a few weeks ago with your posts - I don't really know what to believe, ZA. On the one hand you speak very dismissively of other people and of women you see on dating sites. You say stuff like the above, and acknowledge that you're very choosy.

 

Then, on the other, you say stuff like "nobody is interested in me".

 

Which is it? Or are you saying that it's both - that no one's interested and you wouldn't have them anyway?

 

I can't help but wonder whether you just have a habit of dismissing people as potential dates based on whether you think they're too conventional, too "molded by society", not intellectual enough, etc. I then wonder on what grounds you're dismissing them. A profile? Looks, even? How they dress? I'm not talking about the odd date here and there where you didn't click - that happens to everyone. I'm talking about the above statement, and similar statements that you have made.

 

I think that you're really digging your own hole with this "nobody wants to date me" story that you tell yourself - and it likely isn't even true. It's just that you want this one girl and you won't let her -- or, more to the point, the idea of her -- go. And thus you have a pretty fixed idea in your head of a dateable woman, and nobody else is measuring up.

 

Just some food for thought.

[ZA Dater]

What do you mean by this, exactly?

 

I honestly am at the same place I was a few weeks ago with your posts - I don't really know what to believe, ZA. On the one hand you speak very dismissively of other people and of women you see on dating sites. You say stuff like the above, and acknowledge that you're very choosy.

 

Then, on the other, you say stuff like "nobody is interested in me".

 

Which is it? Or are you saying that it's both - that no one's interested and you wouldn't have them anyway?

 

I can't help but wonder whether you just have a habit of dismissing people as potential dates based on whether you think they're too conventional, too "molded by society", not intellectual enough, etc. I then wonder on what grounds you're dismissing them. A profile? Looks, even? How they dress? I'm not talking about the odd date here and there where you didn't click - that happens to everyone. I'm talking about the above statement, and similar statements that you have made.

 

I think that you're really digging your own hole with this "nobody wants to date me" story that you tell yourself - and it likely isn't even true. It's just that you want this one girl and you won't let her -- or, more to the point, the idea of her -- go. And thus you have a pretty fixed idea in your head of a dateable woman, and nobody else is measuring up.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

Let me answer your questions simply and plainly.

 

 

Firstly moulded by society, I don't club, I don't drink, I don't go to church, immediately that makes me extremely unattractive to 98% of people because I don't fit in. Hence I am forced to try and find people who themselves don't conform to what society deems to be normal. Case in point on Tinder.

 

 

Her: lets got for a drink?

Me: We can Id be happy to but I don't drink.

Her" Oh ok well I don't think it will work I like to drink.

 

 

That's dismissing me right away because I don't conform and before you tell me its one person this happens often.

 

 

Nobody is interested in me, that's the honest truth, YES I can go on a dating site and find someone to date by promising them a fancy dinner but those people cant hold my attention with any sort of interesting conversation, most are simply desperate for any sort of attention and many have kids. This is true in SOUTH AFRICA before I am told that I am being negative.

 

 

OLD here is a total and complete waste of time, Tinder more so where you may as well put a picture of your bank balance if you want anyone decent to find you attractive.

 

 

I actually went on dates with people I had no interest in, mainly because I wanted to see if they were interesting, thing is I never get afforded the same opportunity ever, such is life.

 

 

You right I have an idea in my mind of someone intelligent, who has a good command of the English language, actually knows where Kansas and Bora Bora is, actually knows who the president of the USA is, has some knowledge of history, can articulate well, is motivated in life and doesn't spend each and every weekend at bars and clubs. Clearly that is too much to ask for. Instead all I find are apathetic clueless people so wrapped up in their own little world of conformity they have nothing to say about anything out of it.

 

 

So I sit down with these people and talk about what exactly?

 

 

I have always had the same list of things I like, I have met precisely three people who measured up to it, the last of which ticked all the boxes but despite not being a model and battling with dating herself I lost out to some guy from Tinder, no sorry, I wasn't even given a chance to prove I was worth dating. Likewise the two before that, I simply got dismissed like someone throws away a piece of rubbish. Intelligent and articulate people appeal to me immensely.

 

 

Maybe that answers your question.

 

 

Of course round about now someone is going to say "what do you have to offer these people"

 

 

What I have to offer is being caring, honest, thoughtful, loyal, generous, giving, I really take an interest in people and there is nothing I wouldn't do but that's not enough, its never ever enough. No, apparently its about how hip you are, how popular you are, how sexually experienced you are, how hot your clothes are, how expensive your car is, where you live, how many friends you have. BUT mostly its about "would my friends like him", that's the barometer upon which all guys are measured.

 

 

In my opinion.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

It's just like that for some guys.

 

If I went online and tried to get ANY woman as a girlfriend, lets say a woman who was traditionally unattractive, with no education, a low paying job, several children, older, and never left the one little town she lives in, the chances are great that she still would not be attracted to me.

 

Now, I'm no Brad Pitt by any stretch of the imagination, but I am in good shape and run and exercise, have a graduate degree, a steady job, I've been out of the country, have done some interesting things, and I have a few talents. No 'extremely undesirable' woman would JUMP at the opportunity to date me. I can tell you that.

 

Now, I'm not saying this to bag on a hypothetical extremely unattractive woman. I'm trying to illustrate how the game works. You will get rejected by the extremely unattractive woman, but one day, you might be able to land a cute woman who has a pHd and likes traveling to South America to like you. Unfortunately, that day may or may never come.

 

Does it make sense? Attraction can be so random from women. They just like what they like, so you are going to have to go through massive amounts of rejection and lowering your 'standards' really won't help much.

 

Yes, the process stinks and it is shallow and it is not fair. Yes, I know you are getting rejected by many, many women at 'your level'. That's why I suggest taking yourself away from thinking about yourself and what you deserve and thinking about others away from dating.

 

If you buff yourself up, and get a graduate degree, and work on oozing charisma and you are still getting rejected by women (and I guarantee you will be), you will be even more pissed and unhappy.

 

Exactly, definitely not fair, and maybe a lot of us people have been negatively conditioned in our formative years that life, reality should be fair, maybe that's why I detest the gender role that guys are expected to approach and ask out

[perol]

Her: lets got for a drink?

Me: We can Id be happy to but I don't drink.

Her" Oh ok well I don't think it will work I like to drink.

 

 

That's dismissing me right away because I don't conform and before you tell me its one person this happens often.

 

You could have handled it better.

 

You could have said "sure" in response to her query about going out for a drink.

 

Because.. you DO drink. Everybody drinks. If you didn't you'd dehydrate and wither away and die.

 

So you go for a drink and you get a nonalcholic beverage and you chat with her and hopefully make a connection and when she says "oh you don't drink alcohol" you can say something much less dry than "I don't drink". Something like "No I'm not much of a drinker but you go right ahead it's all good". That way you don't EXCLUDE YOURSELF. Which is exactly what you did with your "nonanswer".

 

I bet you do in fact do this sort of thing often. You disqualify yourself for no good reason. It's all about attitude and positive thinking.

[Qboro90]

What do you mean by this, exactly?

 

I honestly am at the same place I was a few weeks ago with your posts - I don't really know what to believe, ZA. On the one hand you speak very dismissively of other people and of women you see on dating sites. You say stuff like the above, and acknowledge that you're very choosy.

 

Then, on the other, you say stuff like "nobody is interested in me".

 

Which is it? Or are you saying that it's both - that no one's interested and you wouldn't have them anyway?

 

I can't help but wonder whether you just have a habit of dismissing people as potential dates based on whether you think they're too conventional, too "molded by society", not intellectual enough, etc. I then wonder on what grounds you're dismissing them. A profile? Looks, even? How they dress? I'm not talking about the odd date here and there where you didn't click - that happens to everyone. I'm talking about the above statement, and similar statements that you have made.

 

I think that you're really digging your own hole with this "nobody wants to date me" story that you tell yourself - and it likely isn't even true. It's just that you want this one girl and you won't let her -- or, more to the point, the idea of her -- go. And thus you have a pretty fixed idea in your head of a dateable woman, and nobody else is measuring up.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head with this reply.

 

And forgive me if I'm forgetting but didn't ZA say he wasn't from the U.S.? If you asked me who the government leader of South Africa was I would have no idea. So if you're judging the intelligence of your dates based off things that you know but the general public around you doesn't, that doesn't make them stupid, it just makes them normal.

 

I commended you on your positive outlook but I may have to retract that as the same underlying negativity, skepticism, and self depricating traits flared up in your most recent replies. If you're really going to make an effort at this idea of being the best YOU possible then you can't circle back to the "well it hasn't worked out well for me before and it never will" attitude.

 

When a Olympic gymnast or a snowboarder (or use whatever example you like) is trying to land a new trick or routine and fails the first 300 times they tried doing it. Do they just put their head down and say "well if I was gonna be able to do it then it would've happened by now, guess it's just not in the cards for me"? Or do they do it another 300 times and will themselves to progress until its achievable?

 

If a woman asked you to meet up for drinks, you could've said "sure I'd love to" and just ordered a club soda or water when you meet up with her. Just because you don't enjoy drinking, socializing, music, etc, doesn't mean that everyone else has to adjust themselves in order to be worth your time. If you want to date someone exactly like you then just carry a wig and mirror around with you .

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

When a Olympic gymnast or a snowboarder (or use whatever example you like) is trying to land a new trick or routine and fails the first 300 times they tried doing it. Do they just put their head down and say "well if I was gonna be able to do it then it would've happened by now, guess it's just not in the cards for me"? Or do they do it another 300 times and will themselves to progress until its achievable?

 

 

Uh, dating is a little bit different from snowboarding/gymnastics because all the best snowboarders/gymnasts LOVE snowboarding/gymnastics.

 

So, it's not just doing something that they despise 300 times to get a result they want. Going through the process is fun and brings enjoyment.

 

That would be more akin to dating a bunch of people where there was mutual attraction and they weren't quite right for one reason or another, but you had some fun times, and there were some mutual breakups, etc. The process is enjoyable.

 

That's not this though. This is being unable to attract. There's really nothing enjoyable about being rejected several times in a row.

 

In my opinion, for certain guys, you just kind of have to go through it blindly. It's almost like lifting up 100 cups and there's a ping pong ball under one of them. A better way to approach it in my experience.

Edited October 14, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[Stage5Clinger]

I don't expect anyone here to understand but I once again never got an opportunity to show her how good I can be.

 

Just so you know I've been there and I know for a fact many, many of us guys in our late 20's early 30's are going through this exact thing. A lot of women these days are these disgusting feminists who think they own the world. Don't take it personally because it has nothing to do with you. She would do the same thing to anyone and will.

[Qboro90]

Uh, dating is a little bit different from snowboarding/gymnastics because all the best snowboarders/gymnasts LOVE snowboarding/gymnastics.

 

So, it's not just doing something that they despise 300 times to get a result they want. Going through the process is fun and brings enjoyment.

 

That would be more akin to dating a bunch of people where there was mutual attraction and they weren't quite right for one reason or another, but you had some fun times, and there were some mutual breakups, etc. The process is enjoyable.

 

That's not this though. This is being unable to attract. There's really nothing enjoyable about being rejected several times in a row.

 

In my opinion, for certain guys, you just kind of have to go through it blindly. It's almost like lifting up 100 cups and there's a ping pong ball under one of them. A better way to approach it in my experience.

 

 

 

It's just an example of being persistent and not letting failures deter you to the point where it's crippling your outlook. I would think that ZA enjoys women and wants to get better at dating and eventually physicality so it's not like I'm saying to shove nails into his arm until he gets used to it and numb to the pain.

 

There's definitely something other to this besides just not finding or attracting the right woman. If you randomly went out with 20 people, just by blind luck there would be at least 1 person that you at least semi connected with and enjoyed being around. For ZA to have such quick negative results it's likely he's either saying things that make women feel uncomfortable/awkward, missing opportunities that are really genuine because of his own security issues and fear of disappointing them, or the negative persona we see here is visible on dates or manifests itself in the conversations he has with them.

[Qboro90]

Let me answer your questions simply and plainly.

 

 

Firstly moulded by society, I don't club, I don't drink, I don't go to church, immediately that makes me extremely unattractive to 98% of people because I don't fit in. Hence I am forced to try and find people who themselves don't conform to what society deems to be normal. Case in point on Tinder.

 

That's dismissing me right away because I don't conform and before you tell me its one person this happens often.

 

Nobody is interested in me, that's the honest truth, YES I can go on a dating site and find someone to date by promising them a fancy dinner but those people cant hold my attention with any sort of interesting conversation, most are simply desperate for any sort of attention and many have kids. This is true in SOUTH AFRICA before I am told that I am being negative.

 

You right I have an idea in my mind of someone intelligent, who has a good command of the English language, actually knows where Kansas and Bora Bora is, actually knows who the president of the USA is, has some knowledge of history, can articulate well, is motivated in life and doesn't spend each and every weekend at bars and clubs. Clearly that is too much to ask for. Instead all I find are apathetic clueless people so wrapped up in their own little world of conformity they have nothing to say about anything out of it.

 

 

So I sit down with these people and talk about what exactly?

 

 

I have always had the same list of things I like, I have met precisely three people who measured up to it, the last of which ticked all the boxes but despite not being a model and battling with dating herself I lost out to some guy from Tinder, no sorry, I wasn't even given a chance to prove I was worth dating. Likewise the two before that, I simply got dismissed like someone throws away a piece of rubbish. Intelligent and articulate people appeal to me immensely

 

Of course round about now someone is going to say "what do you have to offer these people"

 

 

What I have to offer is being caring, honest, thoughtful, loyal, generous, giving, I really take an interest in people and there is nothing I wouldn't do but that's not enough, its never ever enough. No, apparently its about how hip you are, how popular you are, how sexually experienced you are, how hot your clothes are, how expensive your car is, where you live, how many friends you have. BUT mostly its about "would my friends like him", that's the barometer upon which all guys are measured.

 

In my opinion.

 

If you went on a job interview and they asked you what makes you different than the other candidates and what your best qualities are. And you said "well I'm caring, honest, thoughtful, loyal, giving, interested in people, generous"... How do you think that would go?

 

The interviewer would say "ok thanks for the vague general good qualities that every single person after you can say about themselves as well". These aren't reasons why women are going to find you interesting or like able. Most guys either are or can appear to be caring, loyal, and honest"... Thinking that you're special because you think you possess these traits is doing yourself a disservice and making it sound like girls owe you the chance. Every volunteer at a soup kitchen could say the same exact things... Doesn't make them appealing to date.

 

And even more so.... Trying to express those traits on 1 single date is just about impossible. Other than saying it and sounding like a braggadocious guy, what are you gonna do on a date to make a girl think "oh wow he really is very caring and loyal and giving"?

 

The thought that girls MOSTLY want someone who "their friends would like" is not accurate in my opinion. When you've been dating someone for a few week/months and she's wondering if you're a long term possibility, then she might bring you around her friends and family to see how they interact and view you. That's just a confirmation of their own opinion tho.

 

What women really want, especially when first meeting someone.... Is to have fun. And I'm not saying "fun" as in partying the night away and laughing hysterically and being crazy attracted to you. I'm saying "fun" as in, when they sit down and meet you, after 30 minutes the conversation feels natural and they're able to legitimately enjoy the experience and time with a stranger. If a girl gets home and thinks "you know what, that was nice, I had fun with him". Then you're golden.

[normal person]

If you went on a job interview and they asked you what makes you different than the other candidates and what your best qualities are. And you said "well I'm caring, honest, thoughtful, loyal, giving, interested in people, generous"... How do you think that would go?

 

Good post. Also, it's really important to be able to demonstrate these qualities. Saying them is one thing -- anyone can say them. Seeing them put into action as a real life example will actually shape someone's opinion about you. Example: I describe myself as honest. I went out with a girl not too long ago and the bartender didn't charge us for all the drinks we ordered, so I told him he made a mistake and we owed him more than what was on the bill. She liked that.

 

 

What women really want, especially when first meeting someone.... Is to have fun. And I'm not saying "fun" as in partying the night away and laughing hysterically and being crazy attracted to you. I'm saying "fun" as in, when they sit down and meet you, after 30 minutes the conversation feels natural and they're able to legitimately enjoy the experience and time with a stranger. If a girl gets home and thinks "you know what, that was nice, I had fun with him". Then you're golden.

 

Another good point. Simply put, you have to make a woman feel something. You have to generate a kind of excitement somehow, through one method or another. You can't just rely on your resume of generic qualities to get you in good graces by default. It doesn't work that way.

[JuneJulySeptember]

There's definitely something other to this besides just not finding or attracting the right woman. If you randomly went out with 20 people, just by blind luck there would be at least 1 person that you at least semi connected with and enjoyed being around. For ZA to have such quick negative results it's likely he's either saying things that make women feel uncomfortable/awkward, missing opportunities that are really genuine because of his own security issues and fear of disappointing them, or the negative persona we see here is visible on dates or manifests itself in the conversations he has with them.

 

If you could get 20 dates with women who considered you a potential attractive dating interest (say from your online dating profile), then yes, I agree. Out of those 20, you should be able to find somebody who wants to date you (although it's not cinch).

 

However, getting those 20 dates is the trick.

 

Do you do online dating? Do you consider yourself a pretty attractive woman?

[Qboro90]

If you could get 20 dates with women who considered you a potential attractive dating interest (say from your online dating profile), then yes, I agree. Out of those 20, you should be able to find somebody who wants to date you (although it's not cinch).

 

However, getting those 20 dates is the trick.

 

Do you do online dating? Do you consider yourself a pretty attractive woman?

 

Using that example due to the fact that in a previous thread ZA expressed that one year he went out with one woman a week for 6 months. Or something similar to where it was evident he was going on a substantial amount of dates.

 

To answer your question Im not a woman but if I was I'd be a freaking knockout lol

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

What women really want, especially when first meeting someone.... Is to have fun. And I'm not saying "fun" as in partying the night away and laughing hysterically and being crazy attracted to you. I'm saying "fun" as in, when they sit down and meet you, after 30 minutes the conversation feels natural and they're able to legitimately enjoy the experience and time with a stranger. If a girl gets home and thinks "you know what, that was nice, I had fun with him". Then you're golden.

 

Totally oversimplifying it.

 

I've had laughs and awesome conversations with MANY women who weren't attracted to me.

 

But you know how that is, cause you're a guy. I don't have to explain it to you.

 

Anyway, broken record, I've had this same conversation 100 times here. Haha. I'm done.

Edited October 14, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[Qboro90]

Totally oversimplifying it.

 

I've had laughs and awesome conversations with MANY women who weren't attracted to me.

 

But you know how that is, cause you're a guy. I don't have to explain it to you.

 

Anyway, broken record, I've had this same conversation 100 times here. Haha. I'm done.

 

 

Its supposed to be simple. If you've ever made a friend in your life then you're capable of getting a girlfriend and engaging in the dating scene. You're friends with people who you enjoy being around. Over complicating dating and what women/men want is where people get lost in the rabbit hole.

[lino]

Its supposed to be simple. If you've ever made a friend in your life then you're capable of getting a girlfriend and engaging in the dating scene. You're friends with people who you enjoy being around. Over complicating dating and what women/men want is where people get lost in the rabbit hole.

 

Sorry but this simply isn't true. Friends are on a total different plane to romantic relationships.

 

A true friend will never leave a man because he isn't confident/tall/rich/trendy enough. In fact a true friend (be it a male or female one) will stick around and support you extra hard in such circumstances where one may be lacking.

[Imajerk17]

Well, on this forum there have been plenty of threads such as this very one, sad to say. A pattern that I have noticed is that many guys who struggle keep doing the same things over and over "their way", and are actually quite resistant to taking suggestions and trying something different.

 

Qboro90 is right on, early on, girls just want to have fun. Actually, don't we all? I'm a guy and if the first date wasn't fun for me, there's no point in a second. This doesn't mean you have to "change everything about you" either, but you probably do have to learn how to flirt and banter.

 

Relating it back to your Tinder experiences ZA_Dater, what if the next time a girl asks you if you want to meet for a drink, you play it back at her: "What you're trying to get me drunk already?" Flirt and banter and then come up with a first date that doesn't involve alcohol. These girls actually care a lot less about whether you drink, and a lot more about whether you are a fun guy to hang out with.

 

Meanwhile, I am wondering why you aren't meeting women at triathlon groups, CrossFit, or even yoga class--where people are all focused on leading a healthful lifestyle. Hell many people in CrossFit follow Paleo.

 

As for the several guys on here who are doing OLD (or tried it) and have had zero success, I notice that none of you have asked for an honest critique of your profiles and emails. You keep insisting that OLD is impossible while ignoring those of us who HAVE had success (and are not tall). I can tell you right now that a "nice" email that reads more like a formal cover letter won't get results (no matter how many guys on here insist that it should). This should be GOOD news to some of you, the reason why you're not getting results is due to how you are approaching things which you can change.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Imajerk17

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

As for the several guys on here who are doing OLD (or tried it) and have had zero success, I notice that none of you have asked for an honest critique of your profiles and emails. You keep insisting that OLD is impossible while ignoring those of us who HAVE had success (and are not tall). I can tell you right now that a "nice" email that reads more like a formal cover letter won't get results (no matter how many guys on here insist that it should). This should be GOOD news to some of you, the reason why you're not getting results is due to how you are approaching things which you can change.

 

I won't ask for your advice. But I'll tell you a story. True story...

 

I'm no spring chicken, so I'm not looking for sex or hookups. I'm looking for a person to spend the rest of my life with.

 

So ... I had a profile and got a couple of dates out of it after many more rejections. It's honest. I like to hike, ski, hang out in the city, sit down at Starbucks with a good book, and watch sports. I thought the couple of dates I got didn't really match what my real personality, so I decided to be more candid.

 

You know when you're driving in the car and listening to this song, and you think you're the coolest person in the world for liking that song even though its an idiotic or cheezy song? That's how I made my profile. Like the real me, included my quirks, all of which I think are quite endearing.

 

My success rate didn't go up. So, I paid somebody to critique my profile. You know what they said? That my little quirks were horrible (and trust me, they are not really that bad). That they would send her running away screaming (again, trust me, they are not that bad). She said I needed to be more interesting and more sexy because that's what women want. She said resend my profile and she'll totally re-write it for me.

 

OK, I'll do it. But then I thought for a second. Isn't this MATCH.com? Isn't this about finding somebody who MATCHES me and likes me for who I am? Somebody to spend the rest of my life with?

 

I mean do you really think our profiles are so horrible? And if it's about getting somebody else to completely redo your profile like a resume, is that going to get you any closer to the person you want to spend the rest of your life with? The person who will be there by your side through thick and thin despite your shortcomings? Is it clever wording in your mailbox messages that determines whether you find your lifelong mate or spend it alone? If the dating pro rewrote it to cater to what women want, and it's not the real me, I'd be exposed as a fraud. And you know what? I like me.

 

I may still do it just because I'm curious about the effect in a social science sense, but why would I want to date somebody that would reject the honest me, but date the 'spiffed up resume' me?

 

P.S. Sorry, but if by success in OLD you meant sex and hooking up, then just ignore my post. I think that if those were the things I was going for then I would just totally cater my profile for the 'general audience' so to speak. Nothing wrong with that goal BTW, it's just not mine at this point in life.

Edited October 14, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[Qboro90]

I won't ask for your advice. But I'll tell you a story. True story...

 

I'm no spring chicken, so I'm not looking for sex or hookups. I'm looking for a person to spend the rest of my life with.

 

So ... I had a profile and got a couple of dates out of it after many more rejections. It's honest. I like to hike, ski, hang out in the city, sit down at Starbucks with a good book, and watch sports. I thought the couple of dates I got didn't really match what my real personality, so I decided to be more candid.

 

You know when you're driving in the car and listening to this song, and you think you're the coolest person in the world for liking that song even though its an idiotic or cheezy song? That's how I made my profile. Like the real me, included my quirks, all of which I think are quite endearing.

 

My success rate didn't go up. So, I paid somebody to critique my profile. You know what they said? That my little quirks were horrible (and trust me, they are not really that bad). That they would send her running away screaming (again, trust me, they are not that bad). She said I needed to be more interesting and more sexy because that's what women want. She said resend my profile and she'll totally re-write it for me.

 

OK, I'll do it. But then I thought for a second. Isn't this MATCH.com? Isn't this about finding somebody who MATCHES me and likes me for who I am? Somebody to spend the rest of my life with?

 

I mean do you really think our profiles are so horrible? And if it's about getting somebody else to completely redo your profile like a resume, is that going to get you any closer to the person you want to spend the rest of your life with? The person who will be there by your side through thick and thin despite your shortcomings? Is it clever wording in your mailbox messages that determines whether you find your lifelong mate or spend it alone? If the dating pro rewrote it to cater to what women want, and it's not the real me, I'd be exposed as a fraud. And you know what? I like me.

 

I may still do it just because I'm curious about the effect in a social science sense, but why would I want to date somebody that would reject the honest me, but date the 'spiffed up resume' me?

 

P.S. Sorry, but if by success in OLD you meant sex and hooking up, then just ignore my post. I think that if those were the things I was going for then I would just totally cater my profile for the 'general audience' so to speak. Nothing wrong with that goal BTW, it's just not mine at this point in life.

 

 

You're looking at it with the wrong mindset. YOU are the one who actually went and paid someone to critique your profile. Then when they pointed out how a woman/potential match would read it and how you could edit it that would better highlight your "quirks" and get across the "real you" in a more appealing manner, you completely disregarded that advice and felt it was counter productive.

 

Sounds like you were looking for that person to tell you that you did a great job and maybe change a thing here or there. If you were aware enough to seek the counsel of a professional then wouldn't you be inclined to take their advice at least to try it?

 

If you were a baseball pitchers and went to a pitching coach to get advice on your delivery and motion and they suggested you tweak your release point or mechanics... Would you turn around and be like "psh... What the heck do you know anyways, I like it my way better" ?

 

OLD is not like meeting someone in person. The words you use and the format your profile is in has to be something that a woman can quickly read through and think "oh he sounds nice/interesting/fun, it's worth a shot". There is a fine line between expressing your quirks and who you really are in person versus coming off as very unusual, picky, too complex, etc.

 

While you may be looking for your life long wife, you also need to realize that the woman on OLD aren't scrolling through profiles checking off boxes to find their husband. They're trying to find a date. Dates allow you to get to know someone, leads to a relationship, leads to marriage. Expecting someone to look at your profile and feel like "OMG he could be the ONE!" Is unrealistic.

 

If you sought the advice and we're open to critique, allow yourself to take it. If it fails then you can go back to what you were doing. Nothing to lose.

[Qboro90]

Re wording it and presenting it in a different manner is not the same thing as lying about your traits and falsely advertising yourself just as quick bait to get dates. The counselor wasn't suggesting you do that at all. If you said something like "Prefer going to Starbucks and reading a book over engaging in awkward mundane conversations elsewhere"

 

And she tailored it to say "avid reader and thoroughly enjoy a latte and the classic (insert authors name here) novels"..... You're both saying the same thing, she's just making it look/sound more appealing.

[ZA Dater]

 

If a woman asked you to meet up for drinks, you could've said "sure I'd love to" and just ordered a club soda or water when you meet up with her. Just because you don't enjoy drinking, socializing, music, etc, doesn't mean that everyone else has to adjust themselves in order to be worth your time. If you want to date someone exactly like you then just carry a wig and mirror around with you .

 

You miss the point here, I have done this a ton of time and immediately I order water and "oh you don't drink at all, that's odd". Immediately the interest wanes.

 

People put a massive emphasis on drinking as part of socialising and if you don't in many circles you are considered anti social.

[ZA Dater]

I commended you on your positive outlook but I may have to retract that as the same underlying negativity, skepticism, and self depricating traits flared up in your most recent replies. If you're really going to make an effort at this idea of being the best YOU possible then you can't circle back to the "well it hasn't worked out well for me before and it never will" attitude.

 

As people have so eloquently (another word most dates don't understand) pointed out here it doesn't matter what one does one needs to be fun and I have no idea what fun is, for me fun is talking to someone I can actually engage with and challenges me on issues.

 

You above example is flawed because not matter what aspect of life, improvements motivate us to continue and if one sees no improvement then why continue?

 

My mood is filthy, why because once again I got turned down, this time a ex co worker I kept in contact with, she contacted me out of the blue as she was overseas and heading back to SA for a few months.

 

I casually asked if she would like to come to event as my friend, took her one week to reply which was NO, suddenly she had a boyfriend.

 

The forum will be glad to know I have cancelled the event I was going to where K would be there. I'd simply rather not go.

 

Then a friend thinks its a great idea I take someone who has a fiancé to a dinner as my partner as she is looking to network at said dinner, needless to say I rejected this straight away which again started a tired old argument.

 

"You are too negative, you are too that"