Thanks everyone, I am done.

[StBreton]

Dating is not about one night stands. I don't do those and have not. I say wasting your youth because while you say you're "building your life and person" to be the man who will give this woman to which you allude in your posts "butterflies" along with the butterflies you feel ...that building includes advancing your social skills ... Which you confess you are not as easy with as you would like.

 

As far as wasting your youth ...the young brain is much more elastic ... Outlook much more fresh ... This is the time to build yourself ...yet you sit week after week on here and lament your loneliness, how you once again attend a dinner solo, and dream of being with a special someone. The time is now.

 

Advancing your social skills requires practice ...similar to becoming an excellent basketball player ... You have to put in a lot of "court" time ... Advancing dating social (ease in relational) skills (social fluency) = putting in a lot of "court" time as in courting ...dating. It does NOT mean one night stands. How did you even connect the two anyway?? When I tell people I'm dating they do not automatically assume I'm having a one night stand.

 

Yours is like a tragic love story where the protagonist waits and waits for his love ... and the thing that is right in front of him to improve his chances ...he discounts and dismisses. I can't recall which story in literature reminds me of this ... college lit classes were so long ago ... But there was a short story

 

If you do not agree with my premise ... Please write what you believe are the 2-3 characteristics which will attract this woman who gives you such butterflies. And what are you doing to work on advancing those characteristics. What is your plan of attack? No word spinning.

Edited October 23, 2015 by StBreton

[StBreton]

Thank you for the nice compliment!

 

If there is one thing I would love to do and that is spoil someone, nice dinner, nice unique dates (lion park would be one idea). The money is ****really**** ^^^^not much^^^^ of a factor for me, ####within reason####. In fact I'd far rather spend on someone else than spend on myself.

 

Wasting youth, don't quite see this? I am never going to be the one night stand party guy, I realised that years ago. If I am going to sleep with someone she would need to give me butterflies and unfortunately very few people seem to do that for me, hence when one does come along I do my absolute best to try the best I can.

 

For me life is about the experience and how one feels, the subject of this thread does give me butterflies each and every time I see her. Clearly I don't do the same so basically I need to go away and try and make myself the sort of guy who will give her those butterflies, sure I might never work in which case yes I have maybe wasted my time but as I sit here I can imagine that ideal date with her and that's motivation enough to try.

 

Reality is there is pretty much nobody else that interests me in what I call a "wholesome" way.

 

I thought I'd post a separate response because your words were glaring to me ...the repetition of the same thought is very telling (see the ^^^###) ...call it too much story analysis I had to complete for all those college English lit classes ... But this is "it" for you I believe ... It's your insecurity with money that holds you back. It makes sense now why you say the guy who dresses the part (looks successful) gets the girl. This along with not have the social fluency that you desire.

 

Money does not buy love ... It can buy quality of goods but not quality of person. Though I wouldn't date a homeless person (more so because it could indicate a lot more troubles than financial) I would not date a multi millionaire who was unkind ... Irrational etc.

 

If you're not getting the girl you want with what you have to offer ... Move on to someone else. My ex had very little when we met ...but what a wow of a personality ...and that's who I fell in love with. The money came later ...but I wouldn't have known that then. It simply didn't matter to me.

 

So I'll ask again ...what is this "try"?

 

When you say "go away and try to be the person she will want" what does this entail?

 

Have you written it out and told a good friend?

 

Are you willing to write it here?

 

FYI ...you're friends are not in charge of your love life. YOU are. Go sell yourself to the girl by your actions and interactions with her ...and the world. THAT is what gets a girl's attention ...not a sales job from friends. If a girl doesn't notice ... She is NOT the one for you. And there are lots of wholesome girls out there ...physically and mentally and emotionally.

Edited October 23, 2015 by StBreton

[StBreton]

Uh, dating is a little bit different from snowboarding/gymnastics because all the best snowboarders/gymnasts LOVE snowboarding/gymnastics.

 

So, it's not just doing something that they despise 300 times to get a result they want. Going through the process is fun and brings enjoyment.

 

That would be more akin to dating a bunch of people where there was mutual attraction and they weren't quite right for one reason or another, but you had some fun times, and there were some mutual breakups, etc. The process is enjoyable.

 

That's not this though. This is being unable to attract. There's really nothing enjoyable about being rejected several times in a row.

 

In my opinion, for certain guys, you just kind of have to go through it blindly. It's almost like lifting up 100 cups and there's a ping pong ball under one of them. A better way to approach it in my experience.

 

BUT ...dating IS EXACTLY like being a gymnast and trying to land that amazing double flip ... Sometimes you have to go on 300 dates or at least attempt to land as in ASK 300 girls to go out ... And just maybe you'll land a date or a girl that clicks with you. I was soooo picky when I was young and dating ... But around 30 I acquiesced a bit on some things and met a great guy.

 

I think you could bend a bit without breaking. Maybe date someone who's mid to late 30s. Please do not say "well they all go to clubs" because they don't! You're just doing your circular thinking again. And also ..how about dating a woman with children. It wouldn't break you ...and I'll bet she's not the clubbing type. Also ... If intellect is important ...go for a college educated gal.

[autumnnight]

Am I the only one who thinks an 18 page thread about being done is an oxymoron.....

 

That's okay, I'll see myself out

[StBreton]

Am I the only one who thinks an 18 page thread about being done is an oxymoron.....

 

That's okay, I'll see myself out

 

Yes ...Circular thinking ...exactly what this thread is all about.

 

I think each new poster attempts to help the OP ...but any suggestions are brushed aside. It's all a big woe is me tale... I even tried ...only to be told "that won't work because of this and this won't work because of that" and more lamenting and more suggestions and there's no movement ...stuck in the doldrums. It's sad ...OP is only 31. Hope you get yourself unstuck ZA

 

Lesson in futility for me. I'll also show myself the door.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Dating is not about one night stands. I don't do those and have not. I say wasting your youth because while you say you're "building your life and person" to be the man who will give this woman to which you allude in your posts "butterflies" along with the butterflies you feel ...that building includes advancing your social skills ... Which you confess you are not as easy with as you would like.

 

As far as wasting your youth ...the young brain is much more elastic ... Outlook much more fresh ... This is the time to build yourself ...yet you sit week after week on here and lament your loneliness, how you once again attend a dinner solo, and dream of being with a special someone. The time is now.

 

Advancing your social skills requires practice ...similar to becoming an excellent basketball player ... You have to put in a lot of "court" time ... Advancing dating social (ease in relational) skills (social fluency) = putting in a lot of "court" time as in courting ...dating. It does NOT mean one night stands. How did you even connect the two anyway?? When I tell people I'm dating they do not automatically assume I'm having a one night stand.

 

Yours is like a tragic love story where the protagonist waits and waits for his love ... and the thing that is right in front of him to improve his chances ...he discounts and dismisses. I can't recall which story in literature reminds me of this ... college lit classes were so long ago ... But there was a short story

 

If you do not agree with my premise ... Please write what you believe are the 2-3 characteristics which will attract this woman who gives you such butterflies. And what are you doing to work on advancing those characteristics. What is your plan of attack? No word spinning.

 

Yup, and men aren't supposed to see it as a burden

[ZA Dater]

Dating is not about one night stands. I don't do those and have not. I say wasting your youth because while you say you're "building your life and person" to be the man who will give this woman to which you allude in your posts "butterflies" along with the butterflies you feel ...that building includes advancing your social skills ... Which you confess you are not as easy with as you would like.

 

As far as wasting your youth ...the young brain is much more elastic ... Outlook much more fresh ... This is the time to build yourself ...yet you sit week after week on here and lament your loneliness, how you once again attend a dinner solo, and dream of being with a special someone. The time is now.

 

Advancing your social skills requires practice ...similar to becoming an excellent basketball player ... You have to put in a lot of "court" time ... Advancing dating social (ease in relational) skills (social fluency) = putting in a lot of "court" time as in courting ...dating. It does NOT mean one night stands. How did you even connect the two anyway?? When I tell people I'm dating they do not automatically assume I'm having a one night stand.

 

Yours is like a tragic love story where the protagonist waits and waits for his love ... and the thing that is right in front of him to improve his chances ...he discounts and dismisses. I can't recall which story in literature reminds me of this ... college lit classes were so long ago ... But there was a short story

 

If you do not agree with my premise ... Please write what you believe are the 2-3 characteristics which will attract this woman who gives you such butterflies. And what are you doing to work on advancing those characteristics. What is your plan of attack? No word spinning.

 

1: There is simply nobody I am interested in dating at the moment.

2: Not too sure what I am overlooking, I'd rather have a lovely idea in my mind of what dating is then actually go onto yet more dating sites meet up with people who don't understand what quagmire means, actually I am not being serious but the point remains what I am trying to say is people need to "get" me and that means understanding what I say and challenging me. Very few do this. Hence I don't really see what practice I can get by going on random dates.

3: Firstly appearance and dress sense, taken my old number 3 hairstyle and grown my hair, many people say how good it looks. Spent lots of better fitting clothes to better show off what I look like. Apparently these improvements are positive.

Projecting more who I am, instead of overthinking each thing I say, selling myself more, taking a more positive attitude towards life, extolling the virtues of everything that is good.

Bulking up in general. Projecting me as opposed to being this timid quite person, in other words climbing out of my shell.

 

 

I like her because she gets me and every conversation my mind is stimulated, I can talk how I want to talk and she understands and if anything throws more complicated words back at me.

 

 

Of course all this sounds trivial and pathetic to some but to me its not, its what I like, some guys go for DD's, she doesn't have those in fact I'd he surprised if she had A's, she isn't skinny but nobody I have met engages me like she does, its a massive attraction based on personality. Nobody understands that and its that attraction that drives me forward.

[ZA Dater]

Yes ...Circular thinking ...exactly what this thread is all about.

 

I think each new poster attempts to help the OP ...but any suggestions are brushed aside. It's all a big woe is me tale... I even tried ...only to be told "that won't work because of this and this won't work because of that" and more lamenting and more suggestions and there's no movement ...stuck in the doldrums. It's sad ...OP is only 31. Hope you get yourself unstuck ZA

 

Lesson in futility for me. I'll also show myself the door.

 

 

What new suggestions? Its the same one over and over "go and date anyone you can for experience at dating". I have absolutely no interest in doing that at all, which is my prerogative, why would I want to use someone in that way and furthermore I cant date someone I don't like.

 

 

It is what it is, I have an objective and a plan, as stated in the above post, most will pull it apart like a dog rips a pillow apart but again that's their opinion, for what its worth people that know me don't understand the attraction I have, they don't understand why I don't try get physically hotter people and again its my preference.

 

 

Do I need a lot of luck to make this work, probably, can I make it work, hopefully, at the end of the day this is a roulette game and I have staked pretty much everything on red. If I don't succeed then well I still have life and work and other things but at least I will know I gave it the best shot I could with someone I really wanted as opposed to going through the motions with someone I am not wowed by purely to acquire experience and perhaps get laid for the first time ever.

[StBreton]

You say there's no one you want to date ...yet you speak of the girl who gives you butterflies ...and later describe her ...so which is it?

 

 

You say there's no use in dating ...yet you don't give someone a chance who might be a little quieter than you and not throw their big words about ...you will not know until you get out and date!

 

Also ...you say there's no use in dating ...yet other times you say no one will date you so you're trying to do things to get more dates.

 

There's no rhyme or reason here. You and others post as an outlet and as a forum to get help ...I'm here for the same reason. You are a walking contradiction ... It appears you do not see this. Going back and reading other posts on this thread ... Others have indicated the same.

 

In all of this MAY be the answer as to why it's not happening for you right now (besides someone not having a large enough vocabulary). You can hold your hand up and deny it's there but you won't be getting anywhere. It appears you've made your choice and continue to hold up your hand.

 

Good luck with that billion dollar heart chip on red

Edited October 23, 2015 by StBreton

[ZA Dater]

You say there's no one you want to date ...yet you speak of the girl who gives you butterflies ...and later describe her ...so which is it?

 

 

You say there's no use in dating ...yet you don't give someone a chance who might be a little quieter than you and not throw their big words about ...you will not know until you get out and date!

 

Also ...you say there's no use in dating ...yet other times you say no one will date you so you're trying to do things to get more dates.

 

There's no rhyme or reason here. You and others post as an outlet and as a forum to get help ...I'm here for the same reason. You are a walking contradiction ... It appears you do not see this. Going back and reading other posts on this thread ... Others have indicated the same.

 

In all of this MAY be the answer as to why it's not happening for you right now (besides someone not having a large enough vocabulary). You can hold your hand up and deny it's there but you won't be getting anywhere. It appears you've made your choice and continue to hold up your hand.

 

Good luck with that billion dollar heart chip on red

 

Let me expand, yes there is someone I want to date. That much is clear throughout this thread.

 

 

I fail to see why it must ALWAYS be ME who has to give people a chance, when I not afforded such a luxury? For what its worth I have given people plenty of chances and found myself consistently underwhelmed in the process.

 

 

If I am guilty of something its perhaps not being decisive enough, straddling the line between committing and backing off for fear of yet more rejection, understandable if all you have ever known is rejection.

 

 

You are right there is no reason, dating itself in my opinion is without reason, you cant quantify why you find one person attractive and another not.

[carhill]

The thread isn't a month old and I thought you were done dating. Heh.

[ZA Dater]

The thread isn't a month old and I thought you were done dating. Heh.

 

Well if after I have made these raft of improvements and this person still isn't interested, then yes I am done dating.

[Qboro90]

Let me expand, yes there is someone I want to date. That much is clear throughout this thread.

 

 

I fail to see why it must ALWAYS be ME who has to give people a chance, when I not afforded such a luxury? For what its worth I have given people plenty of chances and found myself consistently underwhelmed in the process.

 

 

If I am guilty of something its perhaps not being decisive enough, straddling the line between committing and backing off for fear of yet more rejection, understandable if all you have ever known is rejection.

 

 

You are right there is no reason, dating itself in my opinion is without reason, you cant quantify why you find one person attractive and another not.

 

 

We've gone over the comment "I fail to see why it must ALWAYS be me who has to give people a chance". That's in fact not the case and plenty of women, even K have given you chances, genuine ones. Seeing things through your eyes only is building this road block bigger and bigger. As you can see people are starting to throw their hands up towards this thread because it's a giant circle.

 

Two things I will point out. 1. You've admitted that you really have no experience dating or being in relationships. You're staunch and unwavering on the idea of dating and what dating should be as well as what girls can and cannot qualify to date based of you're own single inexperienced opinion and flat out unrealistic hope of how things should work.

 

If you didn't know how to ride a bike, but wanted to... And everyone told you "put training wheels on first, then take them off, fall down a couple times and you'll eventually get it" Then you reply with "that's not how learning to ride a bike should be... I just want to get on the bike I'll have for the rest of my life, be the best fit for that bike and wow everyone with my skills immediately. Not gonna waste my time on any other ways about it. And I want that perfect bike that someone else already owns, to ride up to me and take a chance on me for once." That's your stance on dating.

 

You've never had a gf, never had sex, never experienced what it's like to feel a girl falling for you and let yourself be surprised by how much you're falling for her. Yet you have a mantra that you won't deviate from? It's kind of arrogant to be honest. Whatever you've put together from watching others, TV, movies... has grown into an unattainable feat when there's absolutely no reason to look at it that way.

 

You say it's just so easy for guys who have money to flash it around at clubs, fancy dinners, nice cars/clothes etc. And women just flock to them. Any real man would tell you that the women who "flock to those men" are trashbags and not anyone worth dating to begin with. Most women actually have standards besides goldigging nowadays so the pickings aren't as slim as you portray.

But then strangely you follow it up saying you're dying to "spoil someone" and treat them. The only changes your making are to your outward appearance and wardrobe. Essentially becoming the men you despise.

 

Forget K ever existed. I have no idea what this girl did/does to make you think there's no one else in the world worth learning more about but it's time to put her in the rear view mirror. You're interactions with her are too recent anyways so she's not going to notice you're a changed man or the improvements you make.. Because you've never gone a long period of time without seeing one another or talking. That time apart is how ex's react with "wow he looks great and seems to be doing so well!" After not seeing the guy for a year +.

[Qboro90]

Here is the issue....they aren't really agreeing to be set up with me, they are meeting me more out of "oh shame he cant find a girlfriend, I am not interested in him but lets see what he is like" these are from the outset "pity dates" and are set up as such.

 

All they did was absolutely shatter my self confidence hence the reason I refuse to partake in them any longer.

 

Instead of letting others do what they think I need I am going to do what I think I need because ultimately I am the person dating.

 

Wanted to address this first actually but forgot. How could you possibly know what their reason is for agreeing to meet with you and go on a date? Please shed some light on that with something other than your general feeling or gut instinct that's fueled by self deprication. If you woulda said "yea she told me at dinner that she only went out with me because my friend bill made her feel guilty about saying no, but she thinks I'm a nice guy" then you can argue about self confidence blows.

 

But to formulate these women's feelings and reasoning with nothing but your own fear of disappointment... It's no wonder the dates don't go well for either party. 1. Either you don't go on the date which could be perfectly enjoyable and interesting or 2. You show up with a defeated and self pity/embarrassed attitude for having to be set up in the first place.

If you appreciate and want your friends to help you out and introduce you to women, then they're doing their part. You're not whatsoever.

 

Also... The line "I like a challenge... I want to challenge myself mentally and personally with the girls I pursue dating" . Dude... Every one likes a challenge. That's why it's a common saying. With your track record... Every girl is a literal challenge. No seeing why you want to make it even more impossible to achieve.

 

This "wow-omg" "Instant butterflies" feeling/reaction that you REQUIRE on first glance/ first meeting/first anything with a woman is just inaccurate. Ever heard of a couple telling people how they met and one goes "I actually hated him when I first met him, he was so arrogant and cocky" . Hence why it takes time to delve past those initial impressions.

 

First impressions aren't always right. They're usually never fully accurate. And your not going to know whether a girl is gf material within 1 convo, or 1 dinner. Never gonna happen. When couples move in together after dating for a year and after 2 months the break up ... Why is that? ... Because they don't know everything about the person and being with them everyday sheds light on things you may not have noticed previously. Just like the tiniest flaws or nuances can make you fall head over heels with a girl.

[ZA Dater]

We've gone over the comment "I fail to see why it must ALWAYS be me who has to give people a chance". That's in fact not the case and plenty of women, even K have given you chances, genuine ones. Seeing things through your eyes only is building this road block bigger and bigger. As you can see people are starting to throw their hands up towards this thread because it's a giant circle.

 

Two things I will point out. 1. You've admitted that you really have no experience dating or being in relationships. You're staunch and unwavering on the idea of dating and what dating should be as well as what girls can and cannot qualify to date based of you're own single inexperienced opinion and flat out unrealistic hope of how things should work.

 

If you didn't know how to ride a bike, but wanted to... And everyone told you "put training wheels on first, then take them off, fall down a couple times and you'll eventually get it" Then you reply with "that's not how learning to ride a bike should be... I just want to get on the bike I'll have for the rest of my life, be the best fit for that bike and wow everyone with my skills immediately. Not gonna waste my time on any other ways about it. And I want that perfect bike that someone else already owns, to ride up to me and take a chance on me for once." That's your stance on dating.

 

You've never had a gf, never had sex, never experienced what it's like to feel a girl falling for you and let yourself be surprised by how much you're falling for her. Yet you have a mantra that you won't deviate from? It's kind of arrogant to be honest. Whatever you've put together from watching others, TV, movies... has grown into an unattainable feat when there's absolutely no reason to look at it that way.

 

You say it's just so easy for guys who have money to flash it around at clubs, fancy dinners, nice cars/clothes etc. And women just flock to them. Any real man would tell you that the women who "flock to those men" are trashbags and not anyone worth dating to begin with. Most women actually have standards besides goldigging nowadays so the pickings aren't as slim as you portray.

But then strangely you follow it up saying you're dying to "spoil someone" and treat them. The only changes your making are to your outward appearance and wardrobe. Essentially becoming the men you despise.

 

Forget K ever existed. I have no idea what this girl did/does to make you think there's no one else in the world worth learning more about but it's time to put her in the rear view mirror. You're interactions with her are too recent anyways so she's not going to notice you're a changed man or the improvements you make.. Because you've never gone a long period of time without seeing one another or talking. That time apart is how ex's react with "wow he looks great and seems to be doing so well!" After not seeing the guy for a year +.

 

You know what I know nothing and clearly you are an expert, I defer to your superior knowledge on this.

 

 

I have my feelings, you have your, I have my ideas and you have yours. Strange that I know many people with money and all of them are married to classy nice people so your theory is fairly redundant in my opinion.

 

 

I have met enough people in passing to know what is exceptional and grabs me and what does not, you really are not in a position to tell me what grabs me and what does not.

 

 

If I see K once every 4 months its a lot....so that theory is gone out the window. Most of the communication I have with her is via e mail and that is sporadic at best.

 

 

I'd rather become one of those guys who have success than be the old me and just sit around and mope, a far better idea I think you will agree. Reality is one is judged on what one can offer not who one is. Sad but ultimately true.

 

 

You are right I am not interested in investing time into people who do not wow me in some way, that's the reality of it and yes I wont be deviating from that at all, ever. Just like some wont date obese people I have the right to not date people I don't find attractive, its really very simple, however I am prepared to give people a chance if they wow me in some way and the only real way to do that is through being intelligent and articulate and even then if she doesn't have a pretty face I wont be interested either. I reserve the right to have my preferences, just like you do.

 

 

FYI K has never given me a chance of a one on one date.

[ZA Dater]

Wanted to address this first actually but forgot. How could you possibly know what their reason is for agreeing to meet with you and go on a date? Please shed some light on that with something other than your general feeling or gut instinct that's fueled by self deprication. If you woulda said "yea she told me at dinner that she only went out with me because my friend bill made her feel guilty about saying no, but she thinks I'm a nice guy" then you can argue about self confidence blows.

 

But to formulate these women's feelings and reasoning with nothing but your own fear of disappointment... It's no wonder the dates don't go well for either party. 1. Either you don't go on the date which could be perfectly enjoyable and interesting or 2. You show up with a defeated and self pity/embarrassed attitude for having to be set up in the first place.

If you appreciate and want your friends to help you out and introduce you to women, then they're doing their part. You're not whatsoever.

 

Also... The line "I like a challenge... I want to challenge myself mentally and personally with the girls I pursue dating" . Dude... Every one likes a challenge. That's why it's a common saying. With your track record... Every girl is a literal challenge. No seeing why you want to make it even more impossible to achieve.

 

This "wow-omg" "Instant butterflies" feeling/reaction that you REQUIRE on first glance/ first meeting/first anything with a woman is just inaccurate. Ever heard of a couple telling people how they met and one goes "I actually hated him when I first met him, he was so arrogant and cocky" . Hence why it takes time to delve past those initial impressions.

 

First impressions aren't always right. They're usually never fully accurate. And your not going to know whether a girl is gf material within 1 convo, or 1 dinner. Never gonna happen. When couples move in together after dating for a year and after 2 months the break up ... Why is that? ... Because they don't know everything about the person and being with them everyday sheds light on things you may not have noticed previously. Just like the tiniest flaws or nuances can make you fall head over heels with a girl.

 

Well when your friend in front of you turns to the person and says the following

 

 

"J is desperate for a date, he has self confidence issues, don't you want to go on a date for him or have any friends he can go on a date with"

 

 

I think that pretty much says it all.