Am I Receiving Partial Truth?

[TX-SC]

Yes, it is. She's too young to be married. I tell people to never marry before at least age 25. Your brain isn't done maturing and changing and growing. Who you eventually become is often miles away from who you were at 21, 22, 23.

 

It depends on the person. I was 26 and my wife was 21. She was very mature for her age though. Celebrating 20 years married this year.

 

I agree that the OP'S wife is too immature for marriage though.

[turnera]

talked about how she would keep one of my worn shirts so she could remember my smell, and a pair of my stinky socks so she could remember how much she hated me putting my socks at the doorway next to my shoes. That night, I actually went upstairs and found her cuddled in the bed with one of my shirts. It was tremendously sad, so sad that I cried.

Worked really well, didn't it?

 

You know, that manipulation she employed? Straight out of the high school girl's bag of tricks, talking about smelling your smell and thinking of you. The kind of thing high school girls talk about and teach each other to say...

[turnera]

Hmm, I swear, I don't realize the way things come out of my mouth until someone points it out later sometimes. Thank you. I guess it's too many God dang years of being Mr. Nice Guy. So, I can't really tell where you guys stand now. I'm sorry, I'm just really slow comprehending everything today. You all think there's more, and I for the most part believe you, because you were right last time and you all have a lot of experience. However, are you wanting me to push more? Like, I can see BetrayedH is pushing for 180, rebuilding my confidence, and divorce. So, he is suggesting I use the separation to actually detach myself from this relationship, not to grow fonder of it. Where does Sandy and Fellini stand on this aspect? All opinions are welcomed of course.

If I were in your shoes, I'd continue with the separation (using a lawyer to do it right), and tell her that the next step - IF she wants to try to reconcile, would be for her to schedule a polygraph and take it.

 

Period.

 

Without that, you're moving forward toward either long-term separation or divorce. Because you've lost all ability to trust her now, because of the trickle truth. So now, the only way you'll be able to consider being with her again is after her passing a polygraph.

 

And if she doesn't want to take it - and she probably won't - then you'll know she doesn't really want YOU, she wants the marriage, and you'll be better off divorced.

[TX-SC]

If I were in your shoes, I'd continue with the separation (using a lawyer to do it right), and tell her that the next step - IF she wants to try to reconcile, would be for her to schedule a polygraph and take it.

 

Period.

 

Without that, you're moving forward toward either long-term separation or divorce. Because you've lost all ability to trust her now, because of the trickle truth. So now, the only way you'll be able to consider being with her again is after her passing a polygraph.

 

And if she doesn't want to take it - and she probably won't - then you'll know she doesn't really want YOU, she wants the marriage, and you'll be better off divorced.

 

Every minute he spends waffling on this, she loses more respect for him.

[drifter777]

It is pretty much boring a hole into my brain, but I chose this route so I get to deal with it. You're right, I can't be all those things at once and my pushing for information might cause a minimization on her account of what really happened. When you say, wait for her to speak, do you mean not ask for information, and wait for her to come out with the truth on her own? Thanks for your post Fellini.

Fellini's post was awesome!

 

Now, there is a 99.99% chance that your wife is still lying. Come to terms with that fact: it is nearly an absolute certainty that she is still lying to you about the sex. Just what she did in addition to the blowjob/handjob might be debatable - but she had intercourse with them all at a minimum. And until she gives you all of the sordid details your mind is going to fill in everything with the most disgusting sex imaginable.

 

Look, she is never going to give up everything because she knows that you can't prove the most intimate of details. But you can demand that she gives you information on who did what to who and how many times and how many guys and where did it happen and .... etc.

 

My empathy for you is kicking in big-time and I'm tearing up writing this post. You know enough right now to be crushed, humiliated, sick to your stomach and you just want to go to sleep for a week or two to make your mind quiet down. But now is the time to strike. You already feel horrible so go after the whole story. Look her straight in the eye and tell her you KNOW she is lying, minimizing, and holding back. You want her to tell you every detail of the sexual stuff and you want it right now. Tell her you don't want to go through this horrible pain more than once and if she has any understanding of what she did to you and truly wants to help you heal then the whole, disgusting truth must come out. That if it comes dribbling out - like this BJ stuff - it's going to destroy her in your eyes and there is no chance you will even speak to her again after you divorce her.

 

Your mind will NEVER be at peace if you just leave this where it is right now - and I can prove it:

 

Right now, at this moment, do you believe she told you the whole truth?

[road]

So all my favorite LS'ers, I live the nightmare once more. I finally got her to budge and give me more info. We argued. I told her that I told my friend, and if there was any chance I would be staying, it would be because of him. She got upset because she thought I was willing to work on everything and that I wouldn't leave.

 

 

I explained to her that my emotions are constantly changing and I cannot predict how I'm even going to feel the next day. I had a long talk with her, and told her that I want a separation. She agreed. She cried. I did not budge.

 

 

I told her that I loved her, and I know that she loves me, and I understand even the best of us mess up, but that still doesn't undo the damage. Then I asked if I was to book the polygraph, would you pass, because I'm going to make the appointment.

 

 

Then I asked her if there was more, and told her now or never because we're on the brink of divorce, and I caught one of the looks she gives me right before divulging more information. She gives some kind of half smile and looks up in the air.

 

 

Then she said there was one more thing. She said that the ex-fling tried to get her to have sex, and she said "No, I can't do that" so he asked if she could at least finish him off. She says she wanted to get it over with, so she gave him a hand job and then, what do you know, a blow job for a little bit because she thought he was expecting it based on their last time several years ago.

 

 

I know the way she admits to some of it, she does it in a way that makes her have seemed disgusted, forced, whatever. I feel like that has to be at least partially bull****, and I'm sure it's done to soften the guilt or it's embarrassing, all of the above. Whatever though.

 

 

She said the second *******, the one she messed with twice she did the same thing for the second time, but he pulled her head over and was forceful with her. She didn't get him off though apparently. One thing I also discovered today through questioning, sadly, is that I had assumed that last guy was last.

 

 

He was the one I had assumed she stopped after me getting sad about her what I knew at that time to have been flirting, but I believe she did the thing with the ex-fling after that point (the order was wrong), like the day after. So, despite my sadness with just flirting which would have been February 5th confrontation, I think she went ahead and did it one more time the next day.

 

 

Not 100% on that timeline, but I think that's what happened. The actual D-Day was March 4th. It took me a month of forensic craziness to get her to admit to an actual physical infidelity. Anyway, I didn't budge on the separation. I tried to show her that it was better that she told the truth. She said she had wanted to for so long but it's so embarrassing.

 

 

I told her later that I don't want to view her as a perpetrator. I want to eventually forgive her, and I do believe she is a good woman that royally ****ed up, whether that's staying together or being apart. I also told her that I am sure we are better people from this experience and that we have both learned a lot.

 

 

She told me how much she loved me, and all the things she loves about me, and how she is sure that she only wants me in her life, and she will never do this again, and so on. There was lots of sweet stuff there. I thanked her, but completely refused to budge on the separation though, and made it clear that I may realize how much I appreciate her during the separation, and I may not.

 

 

I wasn't a complete ******* with it, but I just tried to make it clear that I am not in a good place with all of this, and the end may be near, but I WILL eventually forgive her with either outcome, and I will always care about her.

 

This is not the end of my posts obviously. I'll probably be posting like a madman now, but I would like once again (you all are probably sick of it by now) to thank you all for everything. You all know your stuff pretty well. I believed you but needed to also partially give her the benefit of the doubt. You are all wonderful people, and I can't thank you enough. I feel like **** now, haha, but I can still laugh and say thank you very much everyone.

 

 

Old eyes need paragraphs. Otherwise it is too hard to read.

[fellini]

Im not here to bash a person who isn't here to defend or speak for herself and who we only know through the heart and mind of a traumatized BS.

 

So TOM: My wife and I did a separation at the 8th month mark: It was what is called a "structured separation". This is not the same thing as "separation" which is about getting out the door. A "structured separation" has as its goal a whole set of agreements about how this time apart is to be used. It is not a "no-contact" trying out life without you break. It is has as its goal either to return or to decide if being apart is really what you want. It gives each partner space to reflect.

 

You don't sound to keen on your own demand for a separation. Be careful. Because if it is NOT what you truly want, if you think something magical is going to happen leading up to the final walk out, and it is this you are counting on, you are in for a huge disappointment. And then you actually have to live with your choice to leave and my gut tells me you two won't be able to actually "separate". You'll be so fear driven you will both spend the whole time in contact. Do it because it feels right. Not as a strategy.

 

If you are actually doing a REAL separation, then I suggest you make it permanent now. Just say it: "I'm done. I won't continue with us. I don't have it in me to try."

 

Notice that even being a BS, the decision to leave, and the reasons are all on the BS. Just like the decision to cheat was entirely on the WS.

 

If I walk out the door on my wife, after more than 2 years, by now I have learned it is on my own terms, because of me, not because of her. I won't blame her for the affair for leaving. I already agreed to stay and try to build. It will be my failure or inability to get past it.

Edited September 9, 2015 by fellini

[BetrayedH]

Hmm, I swear, I don't realize the way things come out of my mouth until someone points it out later sometimes. Thank you. I guess it's too many God dang years of being Mr. Nice Guy. So, I can't really tell where you guys stand now. I'm sorry, I'm just really slow comprehending everything today. You all think there's more, and I for the most part believe you, because you were right last time and you all have a lot of experience. However, are you wanting me to push more? Like, I can see BetrayedH is pushing for 180, rebuilding my confidence, and divorce. So, he is suggesting I use the separation to actually detach myself from this relationship, not to grow fonder of it. Where does Sandy and Fellini stand on this aspect? All opinions are welcomed of course.

 

To be clear, I don't come to the advice of divorce easily. In fact, you'll rarely see it that clearly from me. What I had recommended to you up to this point was to file for divorce and to keep that approach, which is respectful to yourself in the face of a lot of disrespect from your wife, until you reached a point where you truly felt that you got the full truth and true remorse from her sufficient to consider an attempt at reconciling.

 

But as you can see, much like my own scenario, you are experiencing round after round of trickle truth and only getting it as you discover it yourself and/or twist her arm. None of that speaks to true remorse and at this point, I don't know how you EVER trust another word she says. Time after time after time, she has shown a propensity to lie. If I'm left the choice between a partner in life that has no problem lying straight to my face and having no partner, I'll take none. Are you ever going to believe what she says about these sexual encounters? So now we've gone from repeated claims that it was just fingering to yet another half-story about handjobs and oral that didn't reach completion. Truth or not, what hope do you have for really believing her story this time? I simply think she's put the final nail in the coffin for any hope of trust. It's unfortunate. I think the lies do more damage than the sex. And when the lies are repeated again and again, eventually you have to conclude that she's a liar and disconnect from it.

[road]

You need to schedule the polygraph test if you want to get the whole truth.

 

I have seen too many BH's have their WW tell them they only kissed on D day.

Then a year later kissed and I let the OM play with my rack.

 

Then more years go by and it was we did oral.

 

Then more years and it was sex but only one time.

 

More years and the affair lasted 6 months and they had sex lots of times

but she made the OM wear protection.

 

Sadly more years and WW tells you the affair lasted 2 years, they had sex more times then she can remember, though they had met up at least 200 times to sleep together, and the OM would do her multiple times each night, and he always went bare back.

 

There is never an end to the trickle truthing. This is why a polygraph test is needed.

[fellini]

No. Saying nothing and waiting for her to start a conversation will kill you. And she will think "hey, im off the hook."

 

I mean you agree on a time to sit quietly and discuss. And you tell her "talk to me. I'm going to listen without judging you"

 

You might ask some short questions, but the point is not to beat her up on everything she tries to say. She needs to know you are listening and need to hear her.

 

There is a classic texts for parents called "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk" and really it has nothing to do with Kids.

 

It is pretty much boring a hole into my brain, but I chose this route so I get to deal with it. You're right, I can't be all those things at once and my pushing for information might cause a minimization on her account of what really happened. When you say, wait for her to speak, do you mean not ask for information, and wait for her to come out with the truth on her own? Thanks for your post Fellini.

[BetrayedH]

Polygraphs are wholly unreliable.

 

The only potential benefit of a poly is the "parking lot confession."

 

Do we really need yet another forced confession from this woman?

[fellini]

Actually I doubt for a second he is going to get true remorse from a 23 year old girl. Remorse doesn't come easy for very many people. If we were to be really honest, how many people are actually capable of expressing "true remorse"? Guilt, sorry, regret... these are easy. But true remorse like empathy and not just sympathy .... from a 23 year old? I know I wouldn't, because I wasn't. The concept of remorse didn't hit me until at least my 30s.

 

And I don't personally think remorse is the ticket to reconciliation. I don't actually buy that. I think people genuinely rebuilding themselves and their relationships might be sufficient. Of course this girl needs to do some work on herself. That goes without saying. But finding remorse is not necessarily the key. The question of whether she will step out or not of her marriage ever again is an open one. Remorse today is not going to stop something 5, 10 years from now. She needs to continue to develop as a human being, and frankly, at 23, I'd say she needs it. Now whether I would personally stay married to her at that age is a personal question.

 

 

To be clear, I don't come to the advice of divorce easily. In fact, you'll rarely see it that clearly from me. What I had recommended to you up to this point was to file for divorce and to keep that approach, which is respectful to yourself in the face of a lot of disrespect from your wife, until you reached a point where you truly felt that you got the full truth and true remorse from her sufficient to consider an attempt at reconciling.

 

But as you can see, much like my own scenario, you are experiencing round after round of trickle truth and only getting it as you discover it yourself and/or twist her arm. None of that speaks to true remorse and at this point, I don't know how you EVER trust another word she says. Time after time after time, she has shown a propensity to lie. If I'm left the choice between a partner in life that has no problem lying straight to my face and having no partner, I'll take none. Are you ever going to believe what she says about these sexual encounters? So now we've gone from repeated claims that it was just fingering to yet another half-story about handjobs and oral that didn't reach completion. Truth or not, what hope do you have for really believing her story this time? I simply think she's put the final nail in the coffin for any hope of trust. It's unfortunate. I think the lies do more damage than the sex. And when the lies are repeated again and again, eventually you have to conclude that she's a liar and disconnect from it.

Edited September 9, 2015 by fellini

[drifter777]

Actually I doubt for a second he is going to get true remorse from a 23 year old girl. Remorse doesn't come easy for very many people. If we were to be really honest, how many people are actually capable of expressing "true remorse"? Guilt, sorry, regret... these are easy. But true remorse like empathy and not just sympathy .... from a 23 year old? I know I wouldn't, because I wasn't. The concept of remorse didn't hit me until at least my 30s.

 

fellini: I can't believe we are so symbiotic today

 

I think this is 100% correct but I wouldn't connect it to age necessarily. It's maturity, and this girl is not showing enough of that to even understand what remorse is. She's not sorry she did it - not one bit. She acted out like a teenager because, emotionally, she still is. Sorry she is now having to pay consequences? Yes. Sorry that you might divorce her? Yes. But she had fun teasing and having sex with those guys and that's not likely to change any time soon. She wants that attention from guys - she has a need to be desired and she is more than willing to trade sex to keep a guy drooling over her. If you can live with this than accept it and hope she grows up at some point. Otherwise - well, you know the otherwise part of this.

 

And I don't personally think remorse is the ticket to reconciliation. I don't actually buy that. I think people genuinely rebuilding themselves and their relationships might be sufficient. Of course this girl needs to do some work on herself. That goes without saying. But finding remorse is not necessarily the key. The question of whether she will step out or not of her marriage ever again is an open one. Remorse today is not going to stop something 5, 10 years from now. She needs to continue to develop as a human being, and frankly, at 23, I'd say she needs it. Now whether I would personally stay married to her at that age is a personal question.

 

I agree with regard to remorse. People can rededicate themselves to their marriage after cheating without their BS ever even knowing it happened. We read all the time about people who say that their affair reinvigorated their marriage. The WS is not sorry at all and will never, ever tell their BS about their cheating. Zero remorse. And they then make their marriage better than ever.

 

But the kind of cheating we see here at LS is, in my opinion, different. It seems to me that the WS must demonstrate remorse in order to placate BS enough to even have a chance to try to reconcile. Demonstrate remorse as opposed to actually feeling remorse.

 

If a WS wants to stay in the marriage and make it good and comfortable again, they can fake anything. People are good at this kind of thing - they will do nearly anything to get their needs met. And in the end, does it matter? If BS and WS rebuild trust and love then they are both getting their needs met and are "happy". If BS believes WS is remorseful than, to them, it's true.

[BetrayedH]

We're primarily arguing semantics here. Whether it's having the tools to rebuild, true remorse, or the ability to demonstrate remorse, this chick doesn't have it.

 

For what it's worth, age may be a factor in her emotional maturity level or it may not (my wife didn't have emotional maturity at 40). Again, the point is...this girl doesn't have it.

 

I think the default position for tomcook should be to justifiably detach himself from such a person and continue to do so until such time as he's convinced she does have these things and that he might be able to get over it enough to be "happy" or whatever. With a truly remorseful spouse, estimates are 2-5 years. That ain't her. I'd say it's time to stop throwing good money after bad. The guy is still young and can fully detach without any need to co-parent. Time for Life 2.0

[ShatteredLady]

I know I haven't posted a lot but I have cried so many tears for you. I'm so sorry. I printed out loads of articles & posts on 'Trickle Truth' & gave them to my H to read. Then we spoke. The first thing he said was "These articles make it sound like a cheater has a choice to do anything else! I don't think, 'How can I hurt her more?'. I'm trying to save you pain! I'm embarrassed & full of self-loathing. I hate myself for what I've done to you!". That's how cheaters see trickle truth. It took my H a lot of talking, just about the subject of trickle truth to actually get-it. He's 46 with a life of experiences though!

 

My heart breaks for you. I truly don't know what I'd do in your situation. I've been with my H since I was 21. Never cheated. Never even come close. I stay on this forum to see how lovely people like you 'finish their stories' & to try to get some understanding of how/why loved ones can be so thoughtless & cruel. I don't think I'll ever truly know. I think I can understand crazy, drunken debauchery more than long term affairs. I don't know! Part of me wants to remain the hapless romantic & believe people can grow & change. Part of me thinks "run away & never look back!".

[Mz. Pixie]

Sorry Tom. The statistics on this board and in doing any kind of research as to how many cheaters employ the "trickle truth" strategy.

 

I noticed earlier I believe that this is your first real serious relationship. Is that right and I'm not confused? That in itself says a bit about why you may be reluctant to leave.

 

What I think may be on your heart is I need to make a decision. Any decision. So that the limbo ends for you even if you end it yourself however I'm not sure that will work.

 

I totally believe you should be in the parking lot for the polygraph. Then you might get it.

 

Even if you do are you prepared to bird dog her for the rest of your life to make sure she's being faithful?

 

Three. Not just one Tom. Not a long term marriage wracked with problems-illness etc. Life will bring challenges. And you want the one who can hang in. Trust me.

[tomcook]

Tomcook: stop exhausting yourself and act. abviousely she didn't tell you the whole truth ....

 

Thanks qubist. Good to see you on my thread again. Yeah, I need to make my decision quick. I'm pretty sure this is ending in divorce. I've been talking with my good friend here, and after I spilled everything to him, he's also made me realize how much I've bent over backwards for her, and he just didn't want to say anything. He's shocked. It's a damn shame that this is how this marriage will most likely come to an end. I did tell her we both need to individually see counselors. I refused to give her hope that there will be reconciliation also. I just stuck to my guns. Now, I'm figuring out how to plan what I shall do next. What a shame she threw away someone that took so much of her crap. She'll know it someday.

[tomcook]

Tom, I'm really sad that you are going through this. You really need to just get a divorce and find a good partner. There is a very basic reality here that you need to stay focused on:

 

Your wife had sexual relations with three different guys and continues to lie to your face about all of this. Please don't be a doormat anymore. I'm begging you. Grow up and ditch her for good. Your posts are getting to be hard to "swallow" these days. It's just so depressing.

 

Your empathy means a lot to me. Don't worry TX-SC, I'm not going to be a doormat anymore. I'm tremendously sad, but I know what I have to do. I can't risk wasting my life away with her and regretting it later. Thanks for your post buddy.

[tomcook]

If I were in your shoes, I'd continue with the separation (using a lawyer to do it right), and tell her that the next step - IF she wants to try to reconcile....

 

Good point turnera, especially about the manipulation. I think she's manipulated me our whole relationship. I still want the full truth, but I am pretty much thinking the polygraph won't be possible, because I am almost 100% sure that this is ending in divorce. I just want to do everything the right way. Don't get me wrong, I would love to get the whole truth, if there was a way I could think of, but I don't want to offer her reconciliation in return for the truth anymore. I've already lied to her about it before, because I truly believed that I would put in effort regardless of what she told me, but I can't do that. I can't every truly trust someone again who has lied to me this much, and straight to my face without even blinking, eyes glistening sincerely and all. Can't do it. It hurts but I can't continue this crap.

[tomcook]

Fellini's post was awesome!

 

Now, there is a 99.99% chance that your wife is still lying. Come to terms with that fact: it is nearly an absolute certainty that she is still lying to you about the sex.....

 

Thanks drifter. I appreciate your empathy and words more than I can express here. It really means a lot. Everything all of you are saying means a lot, especially the empathy. You feel with me, and that just makes feel something I can't put in words.

 

I will confront her, and you're completely right about it destroying her in my eyes. I am going to come out and ask when I see her next. We are already separated. She is at a friend's house (or at a boyfriend's house getting it on), but I may meet her later this week. It does feel like crap that it is coming to this, but I know this is what I was leaning to from the beginning. It's just been hard to get here with all the tears and manipulative remarks. If she really cared, she wouldn't have continue to trickle the damn truth. Oh, and you proved it. I still don't believe she told me the whole truth. What a load of ****. I know this might be too personal of a detail, but the oral stuff, I enjoy it as a guy. I have to admit it. It's a different kind of intimacy, both ways. EXTREMELY RARE in our relationship though, but with these dudes she was just like "Hey no big deal". Disgusting. To think of it being worse just sickens me.

[tomcook]

Im not here to bash a person who isn't here to defend or speak for herself and who we only know through the heart and mind of a traumatized BS.

 

So TOM: My wife and I did a separation at the 8th month mark: It was what is called a "structured separation". This is not the same thing as "separation" which is about getting out the door. A "structured separation" has as its goal a whole set of agreements about how this time apart is to be used. It is not a "no-contact" trying out life without you break. It is has as its goal either to return or to decide if being apart is really what you want. It gives each partner space to reflect.

 

You don't sound to keen on your own demand for a separation. Be careful. Because if it is NOT what you truly want, if you think something magical is going to happen leading up to the final walk out, and it is this you are counting on, you are in for a huge disappointment. And then you actually have to live with your choice to leave and my gut tells me you two won't be able to actually "separate". You'll be so fear driven you will both spend the whole time in contact. Do it because it feels right. Not as a strategy.

 

If you are actually doing a REAL separation, then I suggest you make it permanent now. Just say it: "I'm done. I won't continue with us. I don't have it in me to try."

 

Notice that even being a BS, the decision to leave, and the reasons are all on the BS. Just like the decision to cheat was entirely on the WS.

 

If I walk out the door on my wife, after more than 2 years, by now I have learned it is on my own terms, because of me, not because of her. I won't blame her for the affair for leaving. I already agreed to stay and try to build. It will be my failure or inability to get past it.

 

I believe I understand what you are saying. I am pretty sure this has been a separation to try to think objectively, without her presence. With her presence, she pulls at my heart strings and persuades me to make choices for HER feelings, not my own. Like a typical "nice guy" I cave and this has basically the story of our whole relationship sometimes.

 

In one single day of separation, I am realizing that I am leaning more and more towards divorce. That's it. Even if she tries to change now, she still lied to me repeatedly, without remorse, no matter how much apparent remorse she had. She still committed the action, and yes, I cannot get past it. I know it will fade and I will love spending time with her, but it will come back and haunt me. What will she do to me 10, 15, 20 years down the road, when we have children perhaps? Will she get stressed, feel empty, and go have herself a fantastic sexual experience with some jackass. Possibly. Then what will I do? At that age? With more time invested, and more feelings? It'll kill me. It will make this much harder than it needs to be.

 

We all make mistakes, and I get it, but she screwed up beyond belief. I get cheated on. Life isn't fair. That goes the other way around though. She cheated, she's apparently sorry and knows she wants to fight for me more than anything, well guess what. Life isn't fair. She'll have to deal with the consequences of her actions, and I PRAY also LEARN to NEVER do that again to a man she supposedly loves. Whereas I, on the hand, will have to learn never to let anyone walk all over me as they please ever again, and to stand my ground, and if they don't like it. Done.

[tomcook]

To be clear, I don't come to the advice of divorce easily. In fact, you'll rarely see it that clearly from me. What I had recommended to you up to this point was to file for divorce and to keep that approach, which is respectful to yourself in the face of a lot of disrespect from your wife, until you reached a point where you truly felt that you got the full truth and true remorse from her sufficient to consider an attempt at reconciling.

 

But as you can see, much like my own scenario, you are experiencing round after round of trickle truth and only getting it as you discover it yourself and/or twist her arm. None of that speaks to true remorse and at this point, I don't know how you EVER trust another word she says. Time after time after time, she has shown a propensity to lie. If I'm left the choice between a partner in life that has no problem lying straight to my face and having no partner, I'll take none. Are you ever going to believe what she says about these sexual encounters? So now we've gone from repeated claims that it was just fingering to yet another half-story about handjobs and oral that didn't reach completion. Truth or not, what hope do you have for really believing her story this time? I simply think she's put the final nail in the coffin for any hope of trust. It's unfortunate. I think the lies do more damage than the sex. And when the lies are repeated again and again, eventually you have to conclude that she's a liar and disconnect from it.

 

You pretty much summed it up there BetrayedH. I do appreciate her coming out with more details, and I do understand it may or may not be embarrassing, but she pretty much did put the final nail in. I will never ever be able to trust her fully again. No way in hell. I feel bad for telling her a week ago that there would be no backlash to whatever info she shared with me and that I promised I wouldn't leave and would at least try to work things out, but at least there were no angry outbursts. I stayed true to that. I let her speak, and I talked about it in a very civil manner. I also asked for the separation before she even told me anymore about everything. In my opinion, the separation was asking for time to think on my own, so that is in a sense me trying to work on it, so blah blah I'm trying to convince myself I didn't mess up there. I know I did, but regardless. I think she helped provide the death sentence to our marriage. So incredibly sad, but true.

 

I appreciate your honest words, and I appreciate you explaining your empathy for my particular situation, and your reasoning for arguing in favor of divorce. Thanks again.

[tomcook]

No. Saying nothing and waiting for her to start a conversation will kill you. And she will think "hey, im off the hook."

 

I mean you agree on a time to sit quietly and discuss. And you tell her "talk to me. I'm going to listen without judging you"

 

You might ask some short questions, but the point is not to beat her up on everything she tries to say. She needs to know you are listening and need to hear her.

 

There is a classic texts for parents called "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk" and really it has nothing to do with Kids.

 

Good. I'm glad you were able to explain that to me. I apologize for misunderstanding it the first time. That is, in a sense, what I did last night when she revealed the part that she chose to. I was very calm, asked questions, but I let her speak without any severe reactions or judgment. In fact, that's what I did when she first told me of the physical infidelities. I just kindave freaked out in later days after that initial reveal "party".

[sandylee1]

Hmm, I swear, I don't realize the way things come out of my mouth until someone points it out later sometimes. Thank you. I guess it's too many God dang years of being Mr. Nice Guy. So, I can't really tell where you guys stand now. I'm sorry, I'm just really slow comprehending everything today. You all think there's more, and I for the most part believe you, because you were right last time and you all have a lot of experience. However, are you wanting me to push more? Like, I can see BetrayedH is pushing for 180, rebuilding my confidence, and divorce. So, he is suggesting I use the separation to actually detach myself from this relationship, not to grow fonder of it. Where does Sandy and Fellini stand on this aspect? All opinions are welcomed of course.

 

Tom

 

You know my thoughts on this...She's not mature enough to be married . She isn't taking it seriously and she's not done playing field .

 

fear is that she'll hurt you again and it's because she sees you love her too much. You both said cheating was a dealbreaker right? She didn't just do it once, with one guy......I reckon this was a MFM and she went ALL the way.

 

You need to detach and do the 180 . You need to gain confidence and know you'll be okay without her in your life.

 

Tom - you deserve an honest woman to match your kindness.

[tomcook]

I know I haven't posted a lot but I have cried so many tears for you. I'm so sorry. I printed out loads of articles & posts on 'Trickle Truth' & gave them to my H to read. Then we spoke. The first thing he said was "These articles make it sound like a cheater has a choice to do anything else! I don't think, 'How can I hurt her more?'. I'm trying to save you pain! I'm embarrassed & full of self-loathing. I hate myself for what I've done to you!". That's how cheaters see trickle truth. It took my H a lot of talking, just about the subject of trickle truth to actually get-it. He's 46 with a life of experiences though!

 

My heart breaks for you. I truly don't know what I'd do in your situation. I've been with my H since I was 21. Never cheated. Never even come close. I stay on this forum to see how lovely people like you 'finish their stories' & to try to get some understanding of how/why loved ones can be so thoughtless & cruel. I don't think I'll ever truly know. I think I can understand crazy, drunken debauchery more than long term affairs. I don't know! Part of me wants to remain the hapless romantic & believe people can grow & change. Part of me thinks "run away & never look back!".

 

That's very kind of you to feel for me ShatteredLady. I appreciate it. I also don't know. My emotions have been running high today, and they have been polar opposites but I have refused to back down. I need to at least prove to myself that I can stand my ground and take **** from nobody when it's necessary. I also feel that long term affairs are harder to understand, but gosh, what my wife did was so incredibly cold, no matter how short term the physical part was. Again, the lies made it 100 times worse than it should have been. It's just a repeat of the betrayal. Betraying my trust, over and over again. There's no end to it. I get how trickle truth would be from a WS's perspective. I feel for them. I do. I'm sure it is extremely frightening, embarrassing, and so on to have to come out with the details. However, when someone who you've hurt so bad is balling their eyes out on your shoulder for what you have put them through, wouldn't that be the time to go ahead and spill the details, after seeing repeatedly what you have put them through?

 

I am also a romantic. Not much relationship experience. I want to think that she can change, and it is so hard to do this considering she thought things have been so much better, and she tried the past few days to keep her cool and be respectful. However, that trickle truth and reliving the nightmare just make it impossible to carry on in a normal, loving relationship, no matter how much I love her. I am so terribly sad that she did not see what she was putting me through, or taken into account all of the things that I had done for her over the years. It's such a shame. I feel like I wasted so much energy in four years into a story of love that I thought was beautifully romantic, but I was wrong. I just feel drained and empty.