Narcissistic Abuse

[BC1980]

I had therapy today and my IC basically said what you did, that even though he now understands to a degree what he is in, as it is a repeat of his childhood, he will keep returning to it to try to fix it and failing

 

I've heard this idea a lot, and I have to say that it was true in my case. I grew up in a situation where I was never good enough for my mother. My mother also made me responsible for her emotional health. She had a bad relationship with my dad, so she devoted everything to me and my sister. I felt responsible for her well being. As a child and into my teen years, I started to believe that I was some sort of freak, unworthy of unconditional love and a real relationship.

 

With my last ex, I relived the relationship with my mother. I was never going to be good enough for my ex, so I changed a lot of stuff about me in an attempt to please him and become worthy. So when it ended, I felt like an utter failure again. I had given up on pleasing my mother, but I had no idea that I still harbored the general need to please other people. I realized that I was a people pleaser, and I felt that it was my job to make everyone like and accept me. Even if them accepting me came at the cost of my self-esteem and who I was.

 

So I hope that helps answer the question you asked. I think most of what I was doing was in my subconscious. I knew something was off, but I didn't really put two and two together for many months after the relationship ended.

[NewLeaf512]

 

 

A "consumed and active enabler" subconsciously(and most likely consciously also) believes they are unworthy of being treated with respect, otherwise they wouldn't be coupled with an abuser in the first place. Subconsciously and consciously, people will perceive/treat us as we perceive/treat ourselves. So, a person with low self-worth will attract abuse more than someone with a healthy self-concept, as by thinking lowly of ourselves causes others to think lowly of us too. We have to demonstrate or exemplify to others that we deserve to be treated well. People pick up on lack of self confidence just by looking at someone, their posture, their facial micro-expressions, their gesticulations, how they use their voice-these traits are more important than what the person actually says or talks about. But developing self-confidence begins from within, so the more we begin to believe in ourselves, the more we begin to outwardly project this, the more people will respect us.

 

Re NC, the less you interact with the abuser, the better for your emotional health. Space is essential for healing.

 

 

 

so how does the enabler recognise it and get out ? especially if its all they have ever known

[turnera]

There's some old saying about how you don't change until the pain of staying is worse than the pain of changing.

 

That enabler must be suffering in some way - externally: abandonment, scorn, ridicule, etc., or within the relationship: abuse, shame, loss of respect, etc. - to WANT to find a new way to live.

[truthtripper]

so how does the enabler recognise it and get out ? especially if its all they have ever known

 

NewLeaf, even if abuse is all they have ever known, it depends on how much abuse and torment the enabler can endure. The more familiar they are to the level of abuse from their partner, the more likely they are going to hang around despite their suffering. If the abuse escalates to a point beyond familiarity, this will prompt the enabler to question the relationship. It's only natural for us to cling to the familiar and flee from the unfamiliar. So the enabler has to experience a breaking point, to realise they have to leave. But awareness can also arise through mental and/or physical exhaustion after a certain period of time. This can also serve as a breaking point, which is what triggered me to leave my family. It's a point at which the enabler has no choice but to face the truth about their relationship. The truth is staring them right in the face and there is a clarity which didn't previously exist.

[NewLeaf512]

NewLeaf, even if abuse is all they have ever known, it depends on how much abuse and torment the enabler can endure. The more familiar they are to the level of abuse from their partner, the more likely they are going to hang around despite their suffering. If the abuse escalates to a point beyond familiarity, this will prompt the enabler to question the relationship. It's only natural for us to cling to the familiar and flee from the unfamiliar. So the enabler has to experience a breaking point, to realise they have to leave. But awareness can also arise through mental and/or physical exhaustion after a certain period of time. This can also serve as a breaking point, which is what triggered me to leave my family. It's a point at which the enabler has no choice but to face the truth about their relationship. The truth is staring them right in the face and there is a clarity which didn't previously exist.

 

 

that's what i thought. after about 40 years this person is lost forever

[truthtripper]

that's what i thought. after about 40 years this person is lost forever

My grandmother had 9 children and was married to a malignant narc. She was not only bound by so many children but was also financially dependant on him. When all the children became adults, she tried to break free from his clutches by seeking employment for herself, but he sabotaged her every effort by contacting the employers and telling them that she was unfit to work. My grandparents migrated to australia from sri lanka in the 1950s, so she was also in a foreign land which made things even more difficult. By the way, my grandmother was in her 50s during the 1960s(when social change for women was still in it's infancy) when she was trying to stand up to my grandfather. She was also a very gentle person. It goes to show that despite difficult social settings and having an accomodating, tolerant personality, the enabler will do whatever they can to get out when the breaking point is reached, or in my grandmother's situation, when they have the chance.

[Heatherknows]

My ex wasn't a malignant narcissist, but he had a lot of narcissistic traits. I remember one summer, he made a big deal of taking me to a botanical garden that I had wanted to go to for awhile. I drove there, and he started criticizing my driving and then, out of the blue, he told me: "I just don't accept you for who you are. That's why I won't marry you." Of course, I was so hurt (even though I already pretty much knew this, it was the first time he had spoken it so plainly), and I started crying. We went to the garden, and he insisted we basically run through it in an hour. It was 90 degrees and miserable, and he made it known that he was annoyed I couldn't keep up with him. He made it known that he felt I was beneath him because I was slower than him. I was so upset because I love botanical gardens and had been looking forward to this for a month. He never apologized or tried to understand how I felt, never showed any empathy. Later that night, he told me that he felt sorry for me because I got so upset. Not because he was an azzhole, but because I had gotten upset. Then, he said he was thinking of creative ways to propose to me.

 

I think that kind of behavior is very indicative of a narcissist because it just shows an utter lack of empathy and responsibility. Never being able to look at yourself and even apologize for deeply hurting someone for no real reason. Because there really was no real reason for what he did other than to assert some type of power over me because he knew I was weak and a people pleaser. I think the idea that he said he felt sorry for me but never connected the dots that his behavior was the sole contributor to my pain is telling. He was able to remove himself emotionally and just see me as some person who got upset. I could give several stories like that, but that one sticks out in my mind.

 

Going to a garden is the best way to spend the day IMO. Your ex sounds so abusive. I'm sorry you had to deal with this person at all.

 

Once I asked my dad what he would have done differently in raising me if he could he said "Well first I wouldn't have procreated with your mother and given you a different one."

 

He abandoned me and my brother my mom loved us and raised us. After he said the above to me I hated him on a whole new level.

[Heatherknows]

I guess the 2 questions I can't answer yet are.. When someone is a consumed and active enabler, how do they interact with others?

 

I believe for me the only way to heal is complete NC with the person with the PD

 

That is my solution as well. Life is too short.

[BC1980]

Going to a garden is the best way to spend the day IMO. Your ex sounds so abusive. I'm sorry you had to deal with this person at all.

 

Once I asked my dad what he would have done differently in raising me if he could he said "Well first I wouldn't have procreated with your mother and given you a different one."

 

He abandoned me and my brother my mom loved us and raised us. After he said the above to me I hated him on a whole new level.

 

I can't believe I put up with it for so long, but I was in a different frame of mind. And he could be really charming too. He was the type who gave a lot of money to charity and would always pay for anything I did. It was difficult to connect the dots because, on the outside, he seemed like a good guy. But then he would just be cruel. He would say that he felt it was okay to divorce a person if they got Alzheimer's or MS because that would lower his quality of life having to care for them. He was obsessed with outward appearances and weight especially. It was just understood that he would leave me if I gained weight, and I wasn't even overweight at all. He would talk about overweight family members like they weren't even humans.

 

The interesting that is that his dad is most certainly a malignant narc or a sociopath. No doubt about it. They both see people as objects that serve a purpose. They don't see people as humans. They see you as an extension of and reflection of themselves. He would tell me that I better look good and do well at my job because I reflected on him. Who even says that to a loved one? I would never dream of telling him that.

 

He treated his poor son the same way. That kid had to be perfect at everything, and the dad shamed and made fun of him if he brought home a B. My ex was a single parent and let his child co-sleep with him until age 10, and, when he finally made his son sleep in his own bed, he made fun of his son for being scared. It was heartbreaking to watch and one of the times I stood up to my ex.

Edited October 6, 2015 by BC1980

[truthtripper]

My ex wasn't a malignant narcissist, but he had a lot of narcissistic traits. I remember one summer, he made a big deal of taking me to a botanical garden that I had wanted to go to for awhile. I drove there, and he started criticizing my driving and then, out of the blue, he told me: "I just don't accept you for who you are. That's why I won't marry you." Of course, I was so hurt (even though I already pretty much knew this, it was the first time he had spoken it so plainly), and I started crying. We went to the garden, and he insisted we basically run through it in an hour. It was 90 degrees and miserable, and he made it known that he was annoyed I couldn't keep up with him. He made it known that he felt I was beneath him because I was slower than him. I was so upset because I love botanical gardens and had been looking forward to this for a month. He never apologized or tried to understand how I felt, never showed any empathy. Later that night, he told me that he felt sorry for me because I got so upset. Not because he was an azzhole, but because I had gotten upset. Then, he said he was thinking of creative ways to propose to me.

 

I think that kind of behavior is very indicative of a narcissist because it just shows an utter lack of empathy and responsibility. Never being able to look at yourself and even apologize for deeply hurting someone for no real reason. Because there really was no real reason for what he did other than to assert some type of power over me because he knew I was weak and a people pleaser. I think the idea that he said he felt sorry for me but never connected the dots that his behavior was the sole contributor to my pain is telling. He was able to remove himself emotionally and just see me as some person who got upset. I could give several stories like that, but that one sticks out in my mind.

 

It was not just his lack of empathy, but his confused, mixed messages ie: taking you to the gardens, saying he doesn't really like you and then talking about proposing to you-this childish flippancy is a sure narc trait.

[autumnnight]

To me, the most insidious type of narcissism is that kind that is wrapped in helplessness or victimhood.

 

At some point in life they learned that being a victim, being ill, being hurt, being depressed got them out of obligations, got them attention, got the focus directed away from their flaws or bad choices. They have a unique ability to gaslight you into believing YOU are the narcissist because you do not read their mind, anticipate their requests, and manage their emotional well-being. The passive aggressiveness manipulates you into feeling guilt for having needs or wanting to be a separate human being. You hurts become invalid, even to you, because the price for talking about any of them or expressing any of them is just too high - you end up comforting THEM and apologizing to THEM after they have twisted all your words impossibly.

 

Their own irresponsibility is always someone else's fault, and their own selfishness is always because they were mistreated. If they DO have a chronic condition, as another poster mentioned, it becomes a tool for keeping you in your place or keeping you from leaving.

[truthtripper]

Their own irresponsibility is always someone else's fault, and their own selfishness is always because they were mistreated. /QUOTE]

 

So true, a common trait. My mum is typically like this and so are many of my "friends".

[DrReplyInRhymes]

All of these opinions and 'information' come from people who have chosen NOT to become a professional psychiatrist.

 

Take what they say with a grain of salt. It's their interpretation of narcissism, and their regurgitation of their experiences.

 

Most of it is just bandwagoning.

[truthtripper]

All of these opinions and 'information' come from people who have chosen NOT to become a professional psychiatrist.

 

Take what they say with a grain of salt. It's their interpretation of narcissism, and their regurgitation of their experiences.

 

Most of it is just bandwagoning.

 

The truth resides in first-hand experience, not in the words of psychiatrists.

Edited October 7, 2015 by truthtripper

[BC1980]

It was not just his lack of empathy, but his confused, mixed messages ie: taking you to the gardens, saying he doesn't really like you and then talking about proposing to you-this childish flippancy is a sure narc trait.

 

The blowing hot and cold was a pattern in our relationship.

[BC1980]

To me, the most insidious type of narcissism is that kind that is wrapped in helplessness or victimhood.

 

At some point in life they learned that being a victim, being ill, being hurt, being depressed got them out of obligations, got them attention, got the focus directed away from their flaws or bad choices. They have a unique ability to gaslight you into believing YOU are the narcissist because you do not read their mind, anticipate their requests, and manage their emotional well-being. The passive aggressiveness manipulates you into feeling guilt for having needs or wanting to be a separate human being. You hurts become invalid, even to you, because the price for talking about any of them or expressing any of them is just too high - you end up comforting THEM and apologizing to THEM after they have twisted all your words impossibly.

 

Their own irresponsibility is always someone else's fault, and their own selfishness is always because they were mistreated. If they DO have a chronic condition, as another poster mentioned, it becomes a tool for keeping you in your place or keeping you from leaving.

 

Sadly enough, I fell for one of these victim stories. My ex had been abandoned by his mother as a young child, and his first wife died suddenly. Those things are terrible, but he would use them as an excuse. He was a hoarder, but he would always blame his "abandonment issues." I think that people, in his life, had painted him as a victim, and he saw how he could take advantage of that role. He was the socially awkward, bachelor and single dad.

 

My bad was feeling that I needed to be his savior. I felt that I provided some new dimension to his life that was necessary. I've since realized that type of behavior is co-dependent. I was the typical, people pleaser that was ready to fall for the victim of life's circumstances. And I always felt guilty for expressing any emotions or talking about my needs/wants. I felt that doing so was too burdensome for him.

[DrReplyInRhymes]

The truth resides in first-hand experience, not in the words of psychiatrists.

 

Because the guy who has had multiple surguries on his knee will obviously know whats best for him during the next surgery.

 

Please.

[Haydn]

Sadly enough, I fell for one of these victim stories. My ex had been abandoned by his mother as a young child, and his first wife died suddenly. Those things are terrible, but he would use them as an excuse. He was a hoarder, but he would always blame his "abandonment issues." I think that people, in his life, had painted him as a victim, and he saw how he could take advantage of that role. He was the socially awkward, bachelor and single dad.

 

My bad was feeling that I needed to be his savior. I felt that I provided some new dimension to his life that was necessary. I've since realized that type of behavior is co-dependent. I was the typical, people pleaser that was ready to fall for the victim of life's circumstances. And I always felt guilty for expressing any emotions or talking about my needs/wants. I felt that doing so was too burdensome for him.

 

This sounds all too familiar....

[Taramere]

All of these opinions and 'information' come from people who have chosen NOT to become a professional psychiatrist.

 

Take what they say with a grain of salt. It's their interpretation of narcissism, and their regurgitation of their experiences.

 

Most of it is just bandwagoning.

 

I don't think the word "narcissistic" in itself need denote a disorder that would be for a psychiatrist to describe. It's a bit like calling somebody "vain", "egotistical" or "self absorbed".

 

But I agree that the word tends to often be used to suggest "narcissistic personality disorder"...which would be for an independent professional person to diagnose. Any one of us could probably be pathologised by somebody who was angry with us and wanted to deal with it in that way. Personality disorders involve, after all, an extreme form of traits that - pleasant or not - are fairly normal human traits.

 

Somebody who might seem a bit annoyingly narcissistic by ordinary standards, but not really anything out of the ordinary, might find themselves demonised as "having undiagnosed narcissistic personality disorder" by an ex partner who is badly hurt by the relationship break up. It's the nature of conflict that we start to magnify the "enemy's" flaws.

[DrReplyInRhymes]

I don't think the word "narcissistic" in itself need denote a disorder that would be for a psychiatrist to describe. It's a bit like calling somebody "vain", "egotistical" or "self absorbed".

 

But I agree that the word tends to often be used to suggest "narcissistic personality disorder"...which would be for an independent professional person to diagnose. Any one of us could probably be pathologised by somebody who was angry with us and wanted to deal with it in that way. Personality disorders involve, after all, an extreme form of traits that - pleasant or not - are fairly normal human traits.

 

Somebody who might seem a bit annoyingly narcissistic by ordinary standards, but not really anything out of the ordinary, might find themselves demonised as "having undiagnosed narcissistic personality disorder" by an ex partner who is badly hurt by the relationship break up. It's the nature of conflict that we start to magnify the "enemy's" flaws.

 

I completely agree, but here is where I am getting annoyed and confused at all these proclamations: These are traits exhibited by everyone.

 

So, in reality, everyone is narcissistic, or exhibits behaviors as such, as you have said.

 

Yet, the 'experiences' and relative explanations that are following are laughable from some of these posters. It's just coincidence for most of them, and perpetuating misinformation is the same as not knowing what the hell you're talking about.

 

I'm sorry some of you dealt with a real narcissist. It's a horrible disorder to overcome, and I salute those who have tried and especially succeeded (if there is such a thing).

 

However, because narcissism is essentially accentuated human traits which is displayed by every single person in the history of mankind every single day, my point is you're going to relate to these tendencies somehow, someway, with anyone.

 

Many of these explanations are just coincidence. The behavior patterns seem to match, so 'NPD' becomes the explanation. However, they have no basis for a comparison, and even if they do have firsthand experience with narcissism, unless they decided to research about 10,000 man hours into a legitimate education on the subject, you can't reasonably assume that these behaviors, observable in everyone , can be diagnosed by a few lines of text at the end of a telephone-game chain describing someone.

 

I had a run-in with someone who decided to give an arm-chair diagnosis on this site. They sure could repeat their experience, and they could repeat what the disorder was, but because these disorders are about observing behaviors and patterns on an individualistic basis and seeing that the trait was indeed out of a range of what we consider to be a "social norm", it was completely unfounded. Could I relate to his bulleted checkmarks? Yes, everyone could. Did that make me have whatever disorder he was outlining? An astounding NO was discovered in my case. Do I display other "issues" I deal with? Yes, as does everyone.

 

Can you have firsthand experience? Yes. Can you learn more? Yes. Could you know more than the average joe? Probably!

 

But just because I have plenty of first-hand experience with something does not mean all irrelevant observations done by me can act as the evidence to my findings.

 

Furthermore, life is not determined by "what" happens to you, but what you do after "it" happens. Unfortunately, I've learned this later in life than I care to admit.

 

However, most of these people are out for answers, and often stop researching once they get an acceptable answer. I find it increasingly pertinent to spread information that is correct, not just "relatable".

 

We don't pretend to all be knowledgeable in nueroscience just because we all have a brain, do we?

[DrReplyInRhymes]

I don't think the word "narcissistic" in itself need denote a disorder that would be for a psychiatrist to describe. It's a bit like calling somebody "vain", "egotistical" or "self absorbed".

 

But I agree that the word tends to often be used to suggest "narcissistic personality disorder"...which would be for an independent professional person to diagnose. Any one of us could probably be pathologised by somebody who was angry with us and wanted to deal with it in that way. Personality disorders involve, after all, an extreme form of traits that - pleasant or not - are fairly normal human traits.

 

Somebody who might seem a bit annoyingly narcissistic by ordinary standards, but not really anything out of the ordinary, might find themselves demonised as "having undiagnosed narcissistic personality disorder" by an ex partner who is badly hurt by the relationship break up. It's the nature of conflict that we start to magnify the "enemy's" flaws.

 

You know, I just slowly re-read your post and I'm pretty sure you outlined exactly what I was trying to point in out an a much more .....elegant way.

 

Thank you.

[Taramere]

I'm sorry some of you dealt with a real narcissist. It's a horrible disorder to overcome, and I salute those who have tried and especially succeeded (if there is such a thing).

 

I had a relationship with somebody who was very narcissistic, but I don't know that it would have been to an extent that was disordered. To be honest, although his self absorption could be hurtful at times, in many ways he was a sweet person. He'd have never hit me, for instance, or called me abusive names. But he could certainly be weird. The effort for most of the relationship was more about fielding other people's criticisms and judgements about him.

 

For the most part, when we were alone together we would have great sex, great conversations and generally a very good time. The difficulties set in outside, when he'd become this weird (and often very embarrassing, frankly) character around other people.

 

The end of the relationship was bad, though. That's when I saw a colder and more unpleasant side to him. But for the most part, I'd say what I encountered was strangeness rather than anything abusive. What I was left with afterwards was primarily a sense of injustice that I had adopted this very tolerant and loyal (given some other people's reactions to him) approach for a long time, but in the end the loyalty was not reciprocated. I felt unappreciated, as people so often do at the end of relationships. For a while I got really into analysing the whole thing from the "I think he had NPD" perspective. It did no good.

 

The behavior patterns seem to match, so 'NPD' becomes the explanation. However, they have no basis for a comparison, and even if they do have firsthand experience with narcissism, unless they decided to research about 10,000 man hours into a legitimate education on the subject, you can't reasonably assume that these behaviors, observable in everyone , can be diagnosed by a few lines of text at the end of a telephone-game chain describing someone.

 

Right. I agree. I had a friend who had studied psychology at university, but didn't obtain any clinical experience afterwards. She had pretty much everybody around her diagnosed with something or other. She used her degree in psychology like a weapon...but ultimately, a degree in that subject doesn't have much meaning (in terms of assessing people's mental health) unless you have the clinical experience to understand what these traits emphasised to a degree that is abnormal and disordered by clinical standards look like.

 

I had a run-in with someone who decided to give an arm-chair diagnosis on this site. They sure could repeat their experience, and they could repeat what the disorder was, but because these disorders are about observing behaviors and patterns on an individualistic basis and seeing that the trait was indeed out of a range of what we consider to be a "social norm", it was completely unfounded. Could I relate to his bulleted checkmarks? Yes, everyone could. Did that make me have whatever disorder he was outlining? An astounding NO was discovered in my case. Do I display other "issues" I deal with? Yes, as does everyone.

 

I sympathise. Lots of us have, at some point, been on the receiving end of these armchair diagnoses. It's not pleasant - not least because it's almost a denial of our personalities - by pathologising them needlessly. I think often what you're seeing, when a person does that, is their own coping mechanisms in action. The ex friend who diagnosed me and others (her relatives, ex husband, various acquaintances - some of whom she maintained were psychopaths) tended to adopt the "little professor" role in an attempt to elevate herself from conflict that, in reality, she was well and truly ensconced in.

 

One last thing. I don't think professionals themselves are necessarily immune from making these emotional diagnoses. I remember being absorbed by "Without Conscience" - by Dr Robert Hare, who has interviewed many people in prison who have been diagnosed with an antisocial disorder. Towards the end of the book, I detected a feeling of strong antipathy for psychopaths (not surprisingly, to be fair - given the dreadful crimes a lot of the ones he interviewed had committed) in his writing.

 

Ages later, I read the Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson. I loved it. He seemed to view the whole thing in very much the same terms as I did. He met Dr Hare, and I think he was slightly alarmed by Dr Hare diagnosing people who cut him up in traffic as "psychopaths".

Edited October 7, 2015 by Taramere

[DrReplyInRhymes]

I had a relationship with somebody who was very narcissistic, but I don't know that it would have been to an extent that was disordered. To be honest, although his self absorption could be hurtful at times, in many ways he was a sweet person. He'd have never hit me, for instance, or called me abusive names. But he could certainly be weird. The effort for most of the relationship was more about fielding other people's criticisms and judgements about him.

 

For the most part, when we were alone together we would have great sex, great conversations and generally a very good time. The difficulties set in outside, when he'd become this weird (and often very embarrassing, frankly) character around other people.

 

The end of the relationship was bad, though. That's when I saw a colder and more unpleasant side to him. But for the most part, I'd say what I encountered was strangeness rather than anything abusive. What I was left with afterwards was primarily a sense of injustice that I had adopted this very tolerant and loyal (given some other people's reactions to him) approach for a long time, but in the end the loyalty was not reciprocated. I felt unappreciated, as people so often do at the end of relationships. For a while I got really into analysing the whole thing from the "I think he had NPD" perspective. It did no good.

 

 

 

Right. I agree. I had a friend who had studied psychology at university, but didn't obtain any clinical experience afterwards. She had pretty much everybody around her diagnosed with something or other. She used her degree in psychology like a weapon...but ultimately, a degree in that subject doesn't have much meaning (in terms of assessing people's mental health) unless you have the clinical experience to understand what these traits emphasised to a degree that is abnormal and disordered by clinical standards look like.

 

 

 

I sympathise. Lots of us have, at some point, been on the receiving end of these armchair diagnoses. It's not pleasant - not least because it's almost a denial of our personalities - by pathologising them needlessly. I think often what you're seeing, when a person does that, is their own coping mechanisms in action. The ex friend who diagnosed me and others (her relatives, ex husband, various acquaintances - some of whom she maintained were psychopaths) tended to adopt the "little professor" role in an attempt to elevate herself from conflict that, in reality, she was well and truly ensconced in.

 

One last thing. I don't think professionals themselves are necessarily immune from making these emotional diagnoses. I remember being absorbed by "Without Conscience" - by Dr Robert Hare, who has interviewed many people in prison who have been diagnosed with an antisocial disorder. Towards the end of the book, I detected a feeling of strong antipathy for psychopaths (not surprisingly, to be fair - given the dreadful crimes a lot of the ones he interviewed had committed) in his writing.

 

Ages later, I read the Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson. I loved it. He seemed to view the whole thing in very much the same terms as I did. He met Dr Hare, and I think he was slightly alarmed by Dr Hare diagnosing people who cut him up in traffic as "psychopaths".

 

I did some light reading on this and I think Joe Ronson may have misunderstood Dr. Hare when he called the traffic guy a psychopath. I stumbled upon an interview in which Dr. Hare goes on to describe the difference between a psychopath and someone who is psychotic. According to him, it's a world of difference!

[Taramere]

I did some light reading on this and I think Joe Ronson may have misunderstood Dr. Hare when he called the traffic guy a psychopath. I stumbled upon an interview in which Dr. Hare goes on to describe the difference between a psychopath and someone who is psychotic. According to him, it's a world of difference!

 

Oh God, yes. Psychosis is heavy duty meds time, I think. Psychopathy tends to be more of a medico-legal thing and is perhaps more likely to be referred to as an antisocial behavioural disorder with no real chance of rehabilitation/cure than in terms of "In my professional opinion the Accused is a psychopath."

 

Narcissism, I've certainly heard a psychiatrist use that term before. In the context of eating disorders, for instance, but I think it tends to be one of these ancillary words. So somebody might have a substance abuse problem and display narcissistic tendencies...but the narcissism aspect is almost like an observation of the person's behaviour or personality rather than being the thing that is to be treated.

[Stage5Clinger]

To me, the most insidious type of narcissism is that kind that is wrapped in helplessness or victimhood.

 

The last girl I fell for was a total narcissist. Aside from that behavior she claimed to have frequent "migraines" which couldn't be managed with any medication she has ever tried. In hindsight this was just a cry for attention that she could keep going indefinitely.