Revenge [pertaining to infidelity]

[xxoo]

Yes, you are absolutely right. When the a did come to light, he could have lied, said I was a friend. I am glad he didn't because he hated lying but it still would have made her life easier and ours too.

 

But the truth comes out eventually. And it hurts to realize that you've been played for a fool.

 

Better would have been to be honest much earlier--like before the affair.

[velvette]

 

here is the thing -- children RARELY discover an A on their own. they usually find out from the BS or the WS, a family member or someone else who heard about it and wants to gossip. when the BS does the huge exposure to EVERYONE, she is hurting only HERSELF with an addition of her own family. why? because she is airing out all the dirty laundry to those who, at the end of the day, really don't give a f&ck.

 

folks talk about the OW's kid being attacked and teased but the BS's kid isn't doing any better - they TOO are teased. the OW's kid is teased about the "whore if a mother" & the BS's kid is teased about the "parent who couldn't keep it in his or hers pants & the other doormat one who stays through everything". children are cruel and by airing out your business, you're giving them an extra ammo to attack and mock.

 

i understand, i think we all do... the exposure of an A to the friends and families. but to others, who aren't in any way close or relevant to the BS and her family...? it WILL backfire.

 

also... if the OW's child gets hurt due to the BS's exposure, the BS is ALSO the one to blame. if the OW gets killed due to the BS's exposure -- the BS is ALSO the one to blame. if you want to hide your hands after throwing a bunch of rocks and act innocent for the bullying and damage of the little kid... saying "the OW should've know better" -- then it does not make any sense for you to blame the OW for your own failed marriage because "your H should've know better".

 

children shouldn't know about the A, unless they are adults who are able to comprehend the situation. what goes on in your bedroom really isn't any of their concerns and they don't care, at the end of the day.

 

you'll have those folks teaching their kids that the A is wrong but their own relationship and marriage started as an A and got a happy ending -- what do you think, if the opportunity for an A presents itself... which way will those kids go?

 

 

I don't know how children usually find out and I doubt you do either. Lots of kids are more tech savy than their parents and no doubt some of them prowl around their electronics and discover things. You yourself said you suspcected your fathers affair.

 

 

Anyone, exposure and to what extent is something every BS has to decide for themselves. I don't agree it always turns out as you say as I know many stories that turned out opposite. Its not really my thing, but I don't judge others negatively for doing it.

 

 

I never blamed an OW for anything to do with my M. The only times I have engaged OW in my own life were when they were harassing me directly. Sorry, I don't have to put up with that, and I will end it any legal way I can. I don't usually pull out the nuclear weapons first, but I'm not afraid to use them if I need to.

 

 

Finally, I think your assertion that anyone is to blame for a criminals actions other than the criminal is ludicrous.

[minimariah]

thank you for answering, this was so nice to read -- especially this part!

 

One of the children went through a stage of blaming his mother. My H set him straight.

 

good for your H for standing up for his xW! it's so nice to read about examples like this... especially when the BS moves on, too. there are always "bumps" on the road but it's so nice to read when adults handle it like... well, adults. affair or not.

[sweet_pea]

Yes, you are absolutely right. When the a did come to light, he could have lied, said I was a friend. I am glad he didn't because he hated lying but it still would have made her life easier and ours too.

 

I'm sure it would have made your life easier but I don't think you're in a position to really say whether it would have made her life easier considering you're not her. Divorce, whether from an affair or not is very hard.

[understand50]

Minimariah,

 

Thanks for relying. In rebuttal to your comments, see the following.

 

it is & we all agree with that. the problem is = gloria seems to think that women on this Forum blame ONLY men for the failed relationships and marriages when that's far from being true. also, the act of infidelity is EXCLUSIVELY the cheater's fault.

 

Agreed, the actual act of infidelity is wholly owned by the cheater. The spouse, can make them more likely to cheat, but in the end there is no excuse for cheating. If you are at that point, do the honorable thing and end the marriage.

 

for example -- a couple. woman refuses to have sex for no reason, man becomes frustrated & cheats. NOW... it is clear that in cases like these, the woman does have responsibility in marital problems that lead to an A but she isn't responsible and can't be responsible that her husband had decided to cheat instead of divorcing her. many ladies here "lash out" at men for the act of infidelity & for that, they can't be responsible. they can only be responsible for the marital problems prior to the cheating and those are two different things. and just because they're mad and angry, it doesn't mean that they don't realize their own responsibility.

many here admit that marriage failure was their fault, too. many admit that they've seen signs, too. however... we barely know ourselves, let alone someone else. folks change and one person CAN be your soulmate and a perfect match when you're 20.... but someone else can take that place when you're 45. because -- people change. YOU change.

 

the thing is -- you can pick the most selfless man, who treats you like a Queen... only to have that man change slowly in the next 20 years into a selfish person who doesn't give a crap about you. life changes people, especially marriage and children, diseases, tragedies, accidents... you aren't the same. and many times, people change for the worst.

 

of course there are some obvious signs and red flags you should notice while picking your significant other but i'm not talking about that. nothing in life is guaranteed. you picking the saint of man doesn't guarantee that he will actually stay that way. it doesn't guarantee that this saint of man, won't fall in love with someone else.

 

with my xH - i picked VERY WELL. he was & is a wonderful man, friend and a father who more than redeemed himself in my eyes for his mistakes. just because we ended up growing in different directions and falling out of love -- it doesn't mean that i have chosen badly.

 

Yes, people do change, and you change, but the pick of who you try marriage with is still the first big question, that you need to try and get right. I also believe that you need to change together if you are going to maintain a relationship. Growing apart can be halted if both of you work on it. One thing that is said, but I disagree with, but may have a small slice of truth is " The affair made our marriage better, by opening communication and getting us talking" No, the affair did not make it better, opening communication and working on the marriage did. All that could have been done with out cheating. Yes, you state you made a good pick, I believe you. I am not you so I really do not know past what you write. I would just restate that the pick of who to marry is still the foundation that needs to be there if a marriage is to prosper.

 

what makes you think that folks WANT love and companionship in a way YOU do? about what? to who? to those who know nothing about the movement and its history? and i don't see this industry where men are portrayed as pigs - in fact, every relevant and important industry in the world is run and controlled by MEN. men run this world, not the other way around. feminists aren't man hating. you will find women who declare themselves as feminists & hate men -- those are NOT feminists. just based on this part of your post alone, it is clear you've never heard about feminism until it had recently became "popular" in the mainstream culture. "man hating feminist" is an oxymoron, i don't know how folks don't understand that.

 

As there are "feminists" there are "man hating feminists" There are many definitions of what it is to be a "feminist" as there is to be a "Liberal" or a "Conservative" When I say there is a "industry" devoted to proving that all men are pigs, I was using a literary device. If you do agree that there are many women in education, politics, public life, so fourth, that are not in the "man hating" "man bashing" mode, well I do not know how to show you. Read this board, for it. There are also plenty of example, here of misogamy as well.

 

"Feminism" will change, as all things change. Hopefully the part that is anti men, will go away or diminish. Things always change, but I see more and more men and woman, rejecting the whole war of the sexes idea. More my opinion then anything else. "Feminism" will change, or the part that advocates "friction" between the sexes, as it can never really stand, as men and women in the end would just rather love each other.

 

but most of all... you were LUCKY that you didn't grow in different directions which is what often happens with "highschool & college" sweethearts. you were children when you got married -- you were fortunate enough that the entire situation turned out well for you. what the hell do you know about picking a LIFE PARTNER, at the age of 19?! so above you picking well and above you working on your marriage, the luck is what's responsible for your successful marriage -- as harsh as it sounds. you weren't "wiser" or "smarter" than those with failed marriages -- you simply had more luck. and then, from that luck later came work, communication and everything else necessary for making a relationship work.

 

Yup, agree I was lucky. Sometimes I think I am a fugitive from the law of averages. But, we both grew together and were able to change together. Takes work.

 

" what the hell do you know about picking a LIFE PARTNER, at the age of 19?! " Do not agree with this one, there always exceptions, and maybe more then we know. I know 19 years olds leading troops in battle, 19 year olds making millions, and I know 19 year olds getting married, and making it work. I think in the end it comes down to who you are, and how you think. I know 60 year olds, I would not trust to empty their boots of rain water with instructions on the bottom of the heel. I would also point out, that this idea that young adults can not mange is a new thing. 30 ago, you were well on your way at 24 with several kids.

 

I will concede this. Some 19 year olds need time, and there is no reason not to take it, but for those who decide to go ahead, I say go to it.

 

The link you posted is interesting since, in my personal opinion, marrying under the age of 30 often proves as a fatal mistake for many & i will definitely advise my daughter NOT to marry until she is at least financially secure, with a degree and a job. the statistics on young marriages speak for themselves.

 

Yes you make valid points, as does the article, but I would not want a age limit mandated by the government, nor do I believe you do. I think one of the things that made our marriage work is, that I married a equal, and she, as I, could have left if she wanted to. I will add this, if my daughter wanted to marry as young as my wife and I did, I would be uneasy. So I am not advocating "young" marriage, but I think it is not the doomed thing that it is made out to be. Again, Who you pick, will be a big factor in how your marriage is. How you go about it, well I do not know, but what ever you do, try and go into marriage, and life with eye wide open.

 

Minimariah, thanks again for the detailed reply. Wish you luck .

Edited July 13, 2015 by understand50
Spelling as always...........

[minimariah]

I don't know how children usually find out and I doubt you do either.

 

don't doubt it.

 

Lots of kids are more tech savy than their parents and no doubt some of them prowl around their electronics and discover things. You yourself said you suspcected your fathers affair.

 

i did but i'm naturally paranoid & have a strong intuition. that's all it was -- i took one look at my father and his then new partner and they seemed to know each other for YEARS. no one told me anything, nothing had happened, i found no pictures... blah, blah. and you are right -- kids these days ARE more tech savy which is why BS exposing on social networks is extremely irresponsible.

 

Its not really my thing, but I don't judge others negatively for doing it.

 

you don't have to judge but you can sure offer some criticism.

 

Finally, I think your assertion that anyone is to blame for a criminals actions other than the criminal is ludicrous.

 

the thing is -- that wasn't my assertion at all. not to mention that this sentence legally doesn't make any sense because - influence, triggers and accessory. so yeah, people other than the criminal CAN and ARE held accountable for playing their part in the criminal acts.

 

if you don't blame the BS for hurting the OW's kid as the result of exposure -- then you can't blame the OW for hurting your own kids (or YOU) as a result of an A. that is the same level of responsibility right there. both did damage indirectly and both thought nothing about the collateral victims.

 

as far as murder goes...? i don't know about you, but i would most definitely feel guilty as hell if someone killed his spouse as a result of something EYE did or said.

Edited July 13, 2015 by minimariah

[minimariah]

...life easier and ours too.

 

it wouldn't have -- trust me.

 

the same thing would have happened if you were a new girlfriend her H met AFTER the divorce. if your description of her was correct - a new woman would've always be a problem, no matter how and when she entered into the picture.

[AnotherSadSong]

Ok but saying "this is a personal matter that I don't want to tell you about/I choose not to discuss this with you" is different than saying "this happened" when it didn't actually happen that way aka lying.

 

If you met your husband by him asking you out and you agreed and you continued going out and got married. That is not lying. If I were to have married the MM that was in my life, he chased, asked out, we fell for each other, and got married. That would not be a lie.

[AnotherSadSong]

It sounds like you have wonderful kids.

 

 

I'm not sure if you've realised that when MM has an A, he is almost invariably abusing (specifically psychological and emotional abuse) his BW. It sounds like you kids are capable if working this out even if you're not. I just wondered if they ever said anything to you about your participating in this abuse of another woman? It sounds like they are the sort of kids that would say something if they knew.

 

Yes, I have realized how much his affairs have probably really messed up their relationship, but he has had multitudes of them over a course that have been found out and they stay together. I learned this later. He has been having affairs his entire marriage, there was no time long gone, mid life crisis or other reasons/excuses.

 

 

It would be up to my children as individuals to make their judgment of me but it would take a semi to drive any love they have for me out. Of course they would not think it was a correct decision on my part.

[minimariah]

Growing apart can be halted if both of you work on it.

 

it can if you're both already formed personalities, ADULTS. but kids, teens growing up? you cannot possibly control the direction they'll go in (in terms of character).

 

when i was 19, i had a boyfriend and we were both religious... christians. slowly, over the years i lost my faith even though we both "worked on it" -- things simply didn't make any sense to me and that's not something you can influence. and that was where we "grew apart" and went into different directions. when you go through the transition from a teen to an adult you make some pretty serious changes and it's a matter of pure luck if you'll go in the same direction as your partner. it has nothing to do with work.

 

"Feminism" will change, or the part that advocates "friction" between the sexes...

 

this isn't a part of feminism.

saying that hating men is a part of feminism... that's like saying that killing and terorrism is a part of islam.

 

you're talking about RADICAL parts of a movement, something that exists in EVERY moment ever. that's not a part of feminism and feminism in itself doesn't have "many definitions" and it most definitely doesn't have men hating, war of sexes parts.

 

Do not agree with this one, there always exceptions, and maybe more then we know. (...) I would also point out, that this idea that young adults can not mange is a new thing. 30 ago, you were well on your way at 24 with several kids.

 

30 years ago, women didn't go to college and most of them didn't have a career so it was normal then to marry and give birth to as many kids as you possibly can because that was the only role you were "expected" to fulfill. just because you had a bunch of kids back then marrying young -- it doesn't mean that it was actually a good idea and something that worked for most... which is why that "custom" was so heavily abandoned and folks marry later in life these days.

Edited July 14, 2015 by minimariah

[Timshel]

Any adult who allows children to be emotionally or physically injured because they are pissed off, things did not occur they way they wanted or expected to:

 

Happy days in a self-improvised hell. Your ego and need for validation from extremely unreliable sources have taken control.

 

Any time you believe that your own ego, let's face it, that's all it is; is more important than the well being of other's.....a line has been crossed.

 

Bitterness is such an enticing sweet for the weak. Hurt is a reason to rise, not sink. If a person is of strong will and integrity.....trumpeting and behaving a Jerry Springer show wanna be will not be on a person or parent's radar.

 

I can't get on board with vengeance, especially against children.

 

You women and men that seek to equalize because someone who did not love you, left you? I would say that you are free.

 

Some of you go from inner ugly to......

[sweet_pea]

If you met your husband by him asking you out and you agreed and you continued going out and got married. That is not lying. If I were to have married the MM that was in my life, he chased, asked out, we fell for each other, and got married. That would not be a lie.

 

But it is also withholding an important fact of the story, which is lying by omission, is it not? I mean you have the right to not be fully honest about what happened, you don't have to tell anyone anything and that's cool, but let's not act like picking parts and pieces of a story and not sharing the other parts is being 100% honest about what happened.

[goodyblue]

But the truth comes out eventually. And it hurts to realize that you've been played for a fool.

Better would have been to be honest much earlier--like before the affair.

_

I am pretty sure we are all aware of this.

[xxoo]

If you met your husband by him asking you out and you agreed and you continued going out and got married. That is not lying. If I were to have married the MM that was in my life, he chased, asked out, we fell for each other, and got married. That would not be a lie.

 

What you are saying is true, but is that how it would play out?

 

IME, older kids want to know where you met, when, how long you dated, etc etc. I had those conversations with my mom, and my daughter has asked me those questions. It would take a lot of careful phrasing and intentional omission to avoid disclosing the overlap in relationships.

 

My H's parents "had" to get married because his mom got pregnant with him. I remember the day we found this out. It was exactly the situation above! Us sitting around the dining room table after a meal, asking a million nosy questions about their courtship and marriage, and one slip spilled the beans. They'd kept that secret for a long time, but it didn't survive the teenage question years

[goodyblue]

But it is also withholding an important fact of the story, which is lying by omission, is it not? I mean you have the right to not be fully honest about what happened, you don't have to tell anyone anything and that's cool, but let's not act like picking parts and pieces of a story and not sharing the other parts is being 100% honest about what happened.

 

It is our story, if the child did not know and it did not have a negative impact, there is no reason to tell. If they asked you other personal questions would you be brutally honest? How was I conceived? Oh well son, that's easy, the condom broke in the back of my van after the Van Halen concert in 85. Give me a break now.

[xxoo]

_[/b]

I am pretty sure we are all aware of this.

 

But when you say that it would be better if there had been more lies, and the BS never knew, I'm not sure. It seems like a whole justification and acceptance of deception overall.

[goodyblue]

But when you say that it would be better if there had been more lies, and the BS never knew, I'm not sure. It seems like a whole justification and acceptance of deception overall.

 

It s actually the opposite. I can't change what we did, I wish she didn't know because it has been miserable for her to know he chose me. If she had just thought they had grown part maybe it wouldn't have been so bad. But it is a horse out of the barn regardless.

[velvette]

 

 

you don't have to judge but you can sure offer some criticism.

 

 

 

the thing is -- that wasn't my assertion at all. not to mention that this sentence legally doesn't make any sense because - influence, triggers and accessory. so yeah, people other than the criminal CAN and ARE held accountable for playing their part in the criminal acts.

 

if you don't blame the BS for hurting the OW's kid as the result of exposure -- then you can't blame the OW for hurting your own kids (or YOU) as a result of an A. that is the same level of responsibility right there. both did damage indirectly and both thought nothing about the collateral victims.

 

as far as murder goes...? i don't know about you, but i would most definitely feel guilty as hell if someone killed his spouse as a result of something EYE did or said.

 

 

I tell you what, when someone here comes along and posts a story first hand of actual exposure and related fall out I will be the first to offer a critical assessment of what they have done. In the meantime, we are all talking about an alleged incident told third hand, with no actual knowledge of the facts, no ability to ask questions, etc. Further, as I've already said, the fact the MM and OW ended up together tells me the story was probably not accurate with regard to no contact being in place/the affair being over. So, frankly, I am bored/done with the whole thing.

 

 

As for the rest, now you are comparing apples, oranges, plums, peaches and figs lol.

 

 

Accessory to a crime is an actual crime and encouraging, aiding or participating somehow in the crime. Telling someone true info is not a crime. If the result of telling someone true info is they kill someone else well sorry the criminal is the killer. Would I feel bad....probably yes...guilty or responsible for a murderer killing someone...no unless I urged him to kill her.

 

 

Lets face it if adultery were a crime, the people locked up would be the MM and the OW, not the BS.

 

 

The reality is that everything we do has consequences. You cannot always anticipate all consequences. Some people are better at this than others. I attempt to always anticipate as many as I can. In the end, we all do the best we can do in that moment.

 

 

If we spent our whole lives thinking about all the things unstable, mentally ill or criminal people might do as a result of things we do most of us would never get out of bed.

[sweet_pea]

It is our story, if the child did not know and it did not have a negative impact, there is no reason to tell. If they asked you other personal questions would you be brutally honest? How was I conceived? Oh well son, that's easy, the condom broke in the back of my van after the Van Halen concert in 85. Give me a break now.

 

I literally said an age appropriate answer is the right thing to do, but ok

[xxoo]

It s actually the opposite. I can't change what we did, I wish she didn't know because it has been miserable for her to know he chose me. If she had just thought they had grown part maybe it wouldn't have been so bad. But it is a horse out of the barn regardless.

 

Are you saying you wish you could change what you did? (not the telling, but the doing)

[velvette]

thank you for answering, this was so nice to read -- especially this part!

 

 

 

good for your H for standing up for his xW! it's so nice to read about examples like this... especially when the BS moves on, too. there are always "bumps" on the road but it's so nice to read when adults handle it like... well, adults. affair or not.

 

 

Yes that was one of his finer moments.

 

 

I cringe when I listen to OW catalog all the flaws of the BS as told to them by the MM.

 

 

That's not a man who is going to be having a healthy relationship with anyone.

 

 

Even worse one parent denigrating the other. The DNA of both parents runs in the childs blood. Anytime you criticize the other parent you are also running the risk the child takes that criticism to heart about themselves.

 

 

Even where it becomes necessary to discuss negative behavior by one parent care should be taken how that's done and neither parent should be trying to alienate the child from the other. Children will eventually decide for themselves and are pretty astute about seeing the strengths and weaknesses of both parents.

[Timshel]

But when you say that it would be better if there had been more lies, and the BS never knew, I'm not sure. It seems like a whole justification and acceptance of deception overall.

 

I don't think anyone posting is advocating deception/lies. In regard to children, the most important is that they are taught and loved.

 

Taught, is not lost. Grace, safety and love when they are little. Courage, safety, love and......Perseverance/Goodness as they are older.

 

Every parent/child relationship is different and so parents decide when/how to discuss particulars.

 

As a parent, I will spin road kill to a life lesson.

I will bring my kids to give food and shelter to a person who hasn't any. They see my manners to everyone, from helping an aged person cross traffic to listening when a person needs listened to. Please/thank you and excuse me.

 

They will learn that mommy keeps cool, calm and giving under duress or they learn that mommy turns into a devil when she does not get her way.

 

Isn't that my job? Didn't my right to have everything about me end when I had them in the chute?

 

I guess it sucks to be cheated on but I never saw it as an excuse for bad behavior. I never once thought that though I sincerely despise my ex, it would be ok for me to be an a**hole.

 

I always thought that I am responsible for my own actions and that I am responsible for the well being of my children.

 

Even if no one else thought so but myself.

[goodyblue]

Are you saying you wish you could change what you did? (not the telling, but the doing)

 

We love our relationship. We have guilt about the affair part and wish we had not started that way but we can't go back. So we go forward and try to do the right things now. We went to therapy and reconciled our feelings, we are ok now with guilt because we have to live with ourselves and one another and we had to move on and forgive ourselves, but I don't know if it will ever completely leave us.

 

I have a very large mixed bag of feelings with regard to his ex ranging from feeling bad to rolling my eyes depending how she is trying to ruin my life this week. In the end, it makes me mad but I played my part.

 

I rambled and don't know if I answered your question. Lol. Sorry.

[AnotherSadSong]

What you are saying is true, but is that how it would play out?

 

IME, older kids want to know where you met, when, how long you dated, etc etc. I had those conversations with my mom, and my daughter has asked me those questions. It would take a lot of careful phrasing and intentional omission to avoid disclosing the overlap in relationships.

 

My H's parents "had" to get married because his mom got pregnant with him. I remember the day we found this out. It was exactly the situation above! Us sitting around the dining room table after a meal, asking a million nosy questions about their courtship and marriage, and one slip spilled the beans. They'd kept that secret for a long time, but it didn't survive the teenage question years

 

 

I have a close family but we are pretty private about personal issues when at gatherings. There were whispers about my grandfather having multiple affairs, he was quite the player in his younger years, but I would have the respect to not sit down and ask him to tell me all about his other women.

 

 

We just do not ask each other millions of questions. The men usually gather and talk about cigars and golf and the women talk and laugh. If someone wanted to speak about their courtship they would be welcome to share it.

[AnotherSadSong]

I don't think anyone posting is advocating deception/lies. In regard to children, the most important is that they are taught and loved.

 

Taught, is not lost. Grace, safety and love when they are little. Courage, safety, love and......Perseverance/Goodness as they are older.

 

Every parent/child relationship is different and so parents decide when/how to discuss particulars.

 

As a parent, I will spin road kill to a life lesson.

I will bring my kids to give food and shelter to a person who hasn't any. They see my manners to everyone, from helping an aged person cross traffic to listening when a person needs listened to. Please/thank you and excuse me.

 

They will learn that mommy keeps cool, calm and giving under duress or they learn that mommy turns into a devil when she does not get her way.

 

Isn't that my job? Didn't my right to have everything about me end when I had them in the chute?

 

I guess it sucks to be cheated on but I never saw it as an excuse for bad behavior. I never once thought that though I sincerely despise my ex, it would be ok for me to be an a**hole.

 

I always thought that I am responsible for my own actions and that I am responsible for the well being of my children.

 

Even if no one else thought so but myself.

 

 

I hope you are a writer, because you write so eloquently and beautiful. You express your feelings well with written word.