Women don't play by the rules

[toolforgrowth]

I do not believe a man should pay for all dates, whatever gave you that idea.

I did not choose to "stay at home", I have no kids either. I have always paid my way, I personally have always been independent, but many women aren't, through no fault apart from raising children, was the point, I made.

You seem to suggest that they then have to submit to "male power" as they are then in the traditional female role and in order to escape "male power" they need to be earning.

"male power" you now say is horsesh*t, but they are actually your words.

 

No. You used the term "male power" first. Page 10, post #142:

 

Yes but paying and opening doors are hardly a big deal, I hold open doors all the time for people in general and pay my way, but adopting the female traditional role is more about kowtowing to men, submitting to male power, supporting men with little reciprocation, "women's" work and being a general dogsbody. What is there to like?

 

My post was in direct response to yours above. And yes, I believe "male power" is horse$h!t, but I know you don't. And what I couldn't for the life of me understand is why you believe men paying is "hardly a big deal" (quoted from you above) when in the very same post YOU said that the traditional female role requires them to submit to "male power". My question to you is, "Are you not submitting yourself to this supposed 'male power' in which you believe by allowing, and even insisting, that men pay for you during courtship? Is that not in direct contradiction to being independent?"

 

You yourself describe yourself as being independent with no kids. Isn't paying your own way through this world how you yourself escaped this "male power" of which you speak?

 

If not...HOW??

[jen1447]

I think the thing for me is that I just flat don't think that much. I meet someone for coffee, we are in line, I say "I can get mine" casually. If he says, "No, I' got it," I say thanks and go on. If a man asks me to dinner and the waitress says, "Are these together?" if I haven't already offered to split, I will address it then, but most of the time a man will say "together." In which case I tell him thank you and express appreciation, or maybe say "You don't have to."

 

But honestly, while I am doing this, I am not thinking about math or accounting or keeping the scoreboard even. I'm just trying to be thoughtful. When he pays, opens a door, etc. I just assume HE is being thoughtful. I do not weigh secret motives based on the amount of the meal or the size of the tip. I don't wonder if he figures I'm a gold digger because I let him buy my salad or chicken or whatever.

 

I just try to fix up nice, enjoy his company, and if we click I hope he asks again.

 

Maybe I'm just simple-minded? Maybe I should be looking for selfish conspiracies under all the napkins?

 

^ Pretty much exactly. Hyper-analysis over money and dating just comes off as weird. No thanks.

[Kbomb]

Alls fair in love and war.

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

Sweet.

 

 

 

Being treated with respect, courtesy, and integrity includes being treated when a man has asked you out on a date. (At least to me.) I personally don't find it romantic when a man asks me out on a date and wants to go halfsies. Men who care about you want to make sure you are content and happy and they derive joy out of making you happy. I really don't understand why you are so outraged by this viewpoint.

 

 

 

No, it wouldn't. Why would it? I'm not saying he has to take me to Alinea, for God's sakes.

 

 

 

Why? I'm pretty awesome. I think he's smart to recognize that. And I'm a fun date.

 

 

 

No, because I have all of my ducks in a row financially. That's what I was looking for in a man. If a 30 or 40 year old man can't manage to buy me a drink on a first date, that's a huge red flag for me.

 

 

 

Why?

 

 

 

 

If he's in such dire straights, then he should be planning free dates where his finances won't be an issue.

 

 

 

If I am, it's because I did well for myself financially, so I merely expect the same out of the man I date. (Or used to date...I'm married now.)

 

 

 

Yes. I preferred to date men who were financially secure enough to be able to treat a woman to dinner or drinks when they asked her out on a date. I don't see why you are so offended by that. I never had any problem getting dates with those types of men, either. It's only on this board that I see the outrage from men about paying on dates.

 

And I'm talking about the early dates, not the entire relationship.

 

Fair enough.

 

I'm not 'outraged' by your outlook on dating and on you expecting (and being 'impressed by') guys to pay your way to make sure your belly is full. I'm just...idk...in shock more than anything.

 

I guess you and I come from different worlds. I mean, whatever floats your boat. And, since you're married and you don't have to date guys (in 2015) anymore, then that's why you can be so blase about what 'impresses you' about guys paying your way - even though (according to you) you have 'all your ducks in a row financially' and you can pay your OWN way on dates and even pay for HIS as well!

 

Tell me something...have you EVER treated a guy by paying for HIS meal or whatever that you went out on a date with (BEFORE you got married)??????????????? Sorry. I don't mean to be blunt or offensive to you or whatever....I'm just....baffled. And want to understand your thinking processes.

 

 

.

[StanMusial]

That circular logic almost literally makes my brain short circuit.

 

Dude you have been on the site long enough to know how this thing works.

 

[clia]

Fair enough.

 

I'm not 'outraged' by your outlook on dating and on you expecting (and being 'impressed by') guys to pay your way to make sure your belly is full. I'm just...idk...in shock more than anything.

 

I guess you and I come from different worlds. I mean, whatever floats your boat. And, since you're married and you don't have to date guys (in 2015) anymore, then that's why you can be so blase about what 'impresses you' about guys paying your way - even though (according to you) you have 'all your ducks in a row financially' and you can pay your OWN way on dates and even pay for HIS as well!

 

Tell me something...have you EVER treated a guy by paying for HIS meal or whatever that you went out on a date with (BEFORE you got married)??????????????? Sorry. I don't mean to be blunt or offensive to you or whatever....I'm just....baffled. And want to understand your thinking processes.

 

 

.

 

Why are you so baffled? I'm not alone in being impressed by men who pay for dates. Although, I guess I'm baffled by women like you who insist on paying your own way. I guess we were looking for different types of men. And I just got married this year, so I'm pretty current on the dating scene.

 

And yes, I've bought many meals for men who I've been in a relationship with. I've never bought a man a meal on a first or second date or generally third date. I did buy my husband dinner on our third date because it was his birthday.

[toolforgrowth]

Dude you have been on the site long enough to know how this thing works.

 

 

You'd think I would have learned my lesson by now!

[xxoo]

I guess you and I come from different worlds. I mean, whatever floats your boat. And, since you're married and you don't have to date guys (in 2015) anymore, then that's why you can be so blase about what 'impresses you' about guys paying your way - even though (according to you) you have 'all your ducks in a row financially' and you can pay your OWN way on dates and even pay for HIS as well!

 

.

 

It's the thought that counts

[autumnnight]

I like my world where people are assumed by me to have basically good intentions and are generally going to try to care about each other. I might get my heart nipped from time to time, but it's better than waiting for the doom of dating sky to fall.

 

I like my pollyanna view

[Shining One]

Yes, no-one is telling men to date 3-4 women a week, maybe if he stuck to getting to know one better, he may be more successful.

Being stuck "investing" in one woman is no guarantee of success.

 

 

 

Let's assume there's a 10% chance of a woman being really into me (and that's a generous number):

• I invest $1,000 in a woman who isn't that into me, but likes me enough to keep hanging out. That money won't convince her to suddenly be into me. This is $1,000 wasted.
  
• Invest $100 each into ten women. I have a much better chance of meeting someone who is into me. This is $100 well spent and $900 wasted.
  
• In an ideal situation, the entire $1,000 is spent on a woman who is into me. This is $0 wasted.
  

There is so much advice on this and many other forums telling women to complete their due diligence before sleeping with a man. Why is it so unacceptable for a man to complete his due diligence before opening his wallet?

[123321]

I like my world where people are assumed by me to have basically good intentions and are generally going to try to care about each other. I might get my heart nipped from time to time, but it's better than waiting for the doom of dating sky to fall.

 

I like my pollyanna view

 

I get a lot of hate here for being rational and analytical, but I too tend to see other people as I am, which means I have an expectation they will behave decently if possible. I've tried to stop doing that as sadly, the world isn't always that way.

[SearchingForMyself]

Looks like I missed another gender war on ls. Did anyone win? I don't think so. Allow me to step in and give my opinion as a broke, 24 year old African american guy.

 

Essentially, dating is like a trade, or business. It is in the interview for a potential lifelong commitment, and various factors come into play that depend on what the individual values.

 

That means likes and dislikes depend on individual standards.

 

Like with xxoo...she prefers her men to be more traditional...and black ops zombie prefers an egilaterian approach based on emotional chemistry. They are both equally valuable in different ways and thus would prefer different men.

 

The problem with lots of men and women in the dating game is that they severely overestimate or underestimate their value...usually overestimate . Guys on here for instance bitch about women wanting jerks. Some of these dudes are overweight or look dorky and expect a super cute chick to holla at them.

 

Same with the phenomenon of online dating where an overweight chick with 5 kids only wants to date a rich stud...cept in this case, she has a chance at getting sex but not much anything else. Men and women get frustrated at dating in different but equally sucky ways, though men tend to bare more weight cause of a lack of a support system. Anyway...

.

I'm short, broke, and black. In the deep south, I'm practically invisible to the demographic I prefer. So I don't create super high standards. I don't have a Lot financially to bring to the table so why go after women who care heavily about it? Bitching at them isn't going to change.

 

I like my standards and I have gone out with overweight women numerous times. Didn't bother me, till they turned crazy or flat out didn't have chemistry. I have enjoyed the standards of which I am at now, though once, if, I ever establish a career and a steady job, I may find something serious.

 

What is my point? If you don't have ridiculous standards you'll do better. Treat it like a trade! What does the party bring to the table that is of value to the other person?

 

This could range from emotional chemistry to financial chemistry and all in between. Here are the types of women I avoid.

 

1. Middle Class Suburbanites....dated one, and the value of money became a biiiiig issue with her. Dating above my class is a time waster at this juncture in my life.

 

2. Women with kids....need I say more? Too inexperienced to play daddy just for tail.

 

3. Ghetto or country women. I'm just not attracted to that. Taylor Swift and Nicki Minaj being obvious exceptions.

 

4. Women who could cover vanity magazines. That's waaaay out of my league.

 

5. Online dating. Mainstream dating sites are a dead end for average minorities. Or average anyone. If I know a woman who extensively uses it, its a red flag that tells me she may be hungry for attention.

 

 

If men accepted their strengths and weaknesses, and figure out what value they bring to certain women...as well as women not getting a huge head from online dating a banging a bored stud when you're an overweight mom of 5...people would be better off.

 

Know your league. Not to say you should date someone who you aren't attracted to, but stop making yourself miserable trying g to date some celebrity figure and try either accepting your value, opt out and be happy single, or I don't know...

 

IMPROVE YOURSELF TO INCREASE DATING POTENTIAL!

 

Someone bury this dead horse and kill this thread. LS is getting depressing.

 

P.S. I'm homeless and have a date with this bartender next week. She's big, yes, but she and I bonded over D&D and star trek innuendos,. Not expecting anything long term. I just hope we make out at least... Lol.

 

Movie night at her place! Just the two of us! Make due with watcha got folks! And learn to work it!

 

Sincerely,

StillSearchingForMyself

Edited April 15, 2015 by SearchingForMyself

[SearchingForMyself]

Looks like I missed another gender war on ls. Did anyone win? I don't think so. Allow me to step in and give my opinion as a broke, 24 year old African american guy.

 

Essentially, dating is like a trade, or business. It is in the interview for a lots tial lifelong commitment, and various factors come into play that depend on what the individual values.

 

That means likes and dislikes depend on individual standards.

 

Like with xxoo...she prefers her men to be more traditional...and black ops zombie prefers an egilaterian approach based on emotional chemistry. They are both equally valuable in different ways and thus would prefer different men.

The problem with lots of men and women in the dating game is that they severely overestimate or underestimate their value...usually overesti ate. Guys on here for instance bitch about women wanting jerks. Some of these dudes are overweight or look dorky and expect a super cute chick to holla at them.

Same with the phenomenon of online dating where an overweight chick with 5 kids only wants to date a rich stud...cept in this case, she has a chance at doing that.

 

I'm short, broke, and black. In the deep south, I'm practically invisible to the demographic I prefer. So I don't create super high standards. I don't have a Lot financially to bring to the table so why go after women who care heavily about it? Bitching at them isn't going to change.

 

I like my standards and I have gone out with overweight women numerous times. Didn't bother me, till they turned crazy or flat our didn't have chemistry. I have enjoyed the standards of which I am at now, though once, if, I ever establish a career and a steady job, I may find something serious.

 

What is my point? If you don't have ridiculous standards you'll do better. Treat it like a trade! What does the party bring to the table that is of value to the other person?

 

This could range from emotional chemistry to financial chemistry and all in between. Here are the types of women I avoid.

 

1. Middle Class Suburbanites....dated one, and the value of money became a biiiiig issue with her. Dating above my class is a time waster at this juncture in my life.

 

2. Women with kids....need I say more? Too inexperienced to play daddy just for tail.

 

3. Ghetto or country women. I'm just not attracted to that. Taylor Swift and Nicki Minaj being obvious exceptions.

 

4. Women who could cover vanity magazines. That's waaaay out of my league.

 

5. Online dating. Mainstream dating sites are a dead end for average minorities. Or average anyone. If I know a woman who extensively uses it, its a red flag that tells me she may be hungry for attention.

 

 

If men accepted their strengths and weaknesses, and figure out what value they bring to certain women...as well as women not getting a huge head from online dating a banging a bored stud when you're an overweight mom of 5...people would be better off.

 

Know your league. Not to say you should date someone who you aren't attracted to, but stop making yourself miserable trying g to date some celebrity figure and try either accepting your value, opt out and be happy single, or I don't know...

 

IMPROVE YOURSELF TO INCREASE DATING POTENTIAL!

 

Someone bury this dead horse and kill this thread. LS is getting depressing.

 

P.S. I'm homeless and have a date with this bartender next week. She's big, yes, but she and I bonded over D&D and star trek innuendos,.

 

Movie night at her place! Just the two of us! Make due with watch a got folks! And learn to work it!

 

Sincerely,

StillSearchingForMyselt

[Phoe]

Being stuck "investing" in one woman is no guarantee of success.

 

 

 

Let's assume there's a 10% chance of a woman being really into me (and that's a generous number):

• I invest $1,000 in a woman who isn't that into me, but likes me enough to keep hanging out. That money won't convince her to suddenly be into me. This is $1,000 wasted.
  
• Invest $100 each into ten women. I have a much better chance of meeting someone who is into me. This is $100 well spent and $900 wasted.
  
• In an ideal situation, the entire $1,000 is spent on a woman who is into me. This is $0 wasted.
  

There is so much advice on this and many other forums telling women to complete their due diligence before sleeping with a man. Why is it so unacceptable for a man to complete his due diligence before opening his wallet?

 

What on earth could you possibly be buying to be spending $1000 on a woman?? That is beyond comprehension.

[Shining One]

What on earth could you possibly be buying to be spending $1000 on a woman?? That is beyond comprehension.

Dating is expensive. Lady drinks cost an average of $14 here. I have had more than one woman drink well over $100 in a night. It's easy to rack up over a $1,000 after a couple months of dating.

[toolforgrowth]

Dating is expensive. Lady drinks cost an average of $14 here. I have had more than one woman drink well over $100 in a night. It's easy to rack up over a $1,000 after a couple months of dating.

 

Suddenly it all makes sense now...

[jay1983]

Well you could go for coffee, but that sucks. I'd rather go slam down some drinks!

[toolforgrowth]

Well you could go for coffee, but that sucks. I'd rather go slam down some drinks!

 

As long as there's some food to go with them! I get the booze munchies.

[Phoe]

Dating is expensive. Lady drinks cost an average of $14 here. I have had more than one woman drink well over $100 in a night. It's easy to rack up over a $1,000 after a couple months of dating.

 

This makes no sense to me how something like this can even happen.

 

There are so many ways to make it so things like that don't happen...

 

How many drinks is she having?? Why are women getting what surely must be obliterated drunk at that kind of cost? Why is the man letting his money go out the window like that?

 

If you totalled up the entire dollar amount that every man I've dated has spent on me, and added them all together, it would not equal $100. And yet some women are drinking that kind of amount in one go??? And somehow THOUSANDS of dollars are consistently being spent.... and woman after woman, that adds up to tens of thousands of dollars. Being drank away.

 

For what?

[jay1983]

This makes no sense to me how something like this can even happen.

 

There are so many ways to make it so things like that don't happen...

 

How many drinks is she having?? Why are women getting what surely must be obliterated drunk at that kind of cost? Why is the man letting his money go out the window like that?

 

If you totalled up the entire dollar amount that every man I've dated has spent on me, and added them all together, it would not equal $100. And yet some women are drinking that kind of amount in one go??? And somehow THOUSANDS of dollars are consistently being spent.... and woman after woman, that adds up to tens of thousands of dollars. Being drank away.

 

For what?

 

For a really good time. Hey we only live once. That's what it costs it play.

[Phoe]

For a really good time. Hey we only live once. That's what it costs it play.

 

I can't imagine it's very fun to spend large amount of money on drinks for women, just for them to not be interested in you. I can't see any fun in that at all.

 

If you wanna have a good time and spend money on drinks with buddies? Sure. But why dates?

[toolforgrowth]

For a really good time. Hey we only live once. That's what it costs it play.

 

Not for me it doesn't. I've had amazing times with many different women without having to spend a dime, both in and out of the bedroom (typically both).

 

That's part of the reason why I don't understand the concept that men have to pay, and that my worthiness is judged negatively if I don't. As if I'm nothing more than a walking wallet.

 

Contrary to popular belief, money doesn't buy affection.

 

A woman's statement of "I view a man negatively if he doesn't pay for me" is no different than a man's statement of "I view a woman negatively if she doesn't have sex with me". Both are reducing a human being to a service, be it financial or sexual.

 

I won't allow myself to judged on the contents of my wallet, regardless of the fact that they're considerable.

[Phoe]

I guess I just am really a strong believer that men ought to exercise caution when it comes to spending on women. It's a good way to get used. And I'm not a fan of watching people get used. =/

[jay1983]

Not for me it doesn't. I've had amazing times with many different women without having to spend a dime, both in and out of the bedroom (typically both).

 

That's part of the reason why I don't understand the concept that men have to pay, and that my worthiness is judged negatively if I don't. As if I'm nothing more than a walking wallet.

 

Contrary to popular belief, money doesn't buy affection.

 

A woman's statement of "I view a man negatively if he doesn't pay for me" is no different than a man's statement of "I view a woman negatively if she doesn't have sex with me". Both are reducing a human being to a service, be it financial or sexual.

 

I won't allow myself to judged on the contents of my wallet, regardless of the fact that they're considerable.

 

I agree with your statement, but what can we do? Most women won't budge, they'll just date someone else.

 

When I was in my late teens and early 20's, I did really well. I got by being broke, doing subway, tailgating only for so long. Eventually they'd get bored, like "this guy barely goes anywhere or has any money"

 

My ex of a year left me when I was 27. I didn't have enough time for her. (it was all about her) Well I got my stuff together and started making money and decided to get back into the dating game. Then all of a sudden, my options changed. I had never experienced so much rejection and flaking from kinda cute to mediocre girls. My options just didn't seem realistic. I kept running into hispanic women who only date white guys. I tried online and boy, you should of seen what I was matched up. Yeah I'd get some cute ones who seemed interested, but either they'd, stop responding when I ask for their number, give my their number, but not wanna talk on the phone or meet in person or talk on the phone, schedule a date and flake out sometimes at the last minute. *shrugs*

 

I know I went off subject a little, but IDK, I felt like saying that.

[clia]

This makes no sense to me how something like this can even happen.

 

There are so many ways to make it so things like that don't happen...

 

How many drinks is she having?? Why are women getting what surely must be obliterated drunk at that kind of cost? Why is the man letting his money go out the window like that?

 

If you totalled up the entire dollar amount that every man I've dated has spent on me, and added them all together, it would not equal $100. And yet some women are drinking that kind of amount in one go??? And somehow THOUSANDS of dollars are consistently being spent.... and woman after woman, that adds up to tens of thousands of dollars. Being drank away.

 

For what?

 

You have to understand that you come from a completely different perspective than most women. I mean, the fact that your none of your boyfriends have spent more than $100 bucks on you total is abnormal in my opinion for your age. Most women in their 20s, who have dated guys for any period of time, get taken out to eat or drink, get gifts bought for them, etc. that far exceed $100. How much do your friends' boyfriends spend on them for birthdays, Christmas, anniversaries, dates, etc.? How much did your friends in college boyfriends spend on them for birthdays, Christmas, anniversaries, dates, etc.?

 

Some people find it to be a lot of fun to go out eating and drinking. I can get why you don't understand that since you seem to live in a place where Applebees and Denny's are the best food choices. If you are in a decent sized city and frequenting the popular joints, the costs can add up quite easily if you have a few drinks, some appetizers, and a good time. But if everyone involved has fun, then a good night was had by all, and...so what?

Edited April 15, 2015 by clia