Women don't play by the rules

[Redhead14]

I'll probably get flamed for it but I'm going to do a little calling out of my own gender here. Is it just me or sometimes do you detect some sort of strange rant/whine from guys that women don't play by "the rules" and somehow that's unfair? I mean, you hear lots of rants from women about guys who use them for sex or broke off a romance suddenly after 3 dates, but you don't hear that same note of "that's not fair".

 

How many times do we hear, "why do women go for jerks and not nice guys?" rants? It seems like there is one on every page of LS and echoed in many threads. You don't hear "why do guys go for beautiful b****s and not nice girls" as much. Sure it is there, but there isn't this note of somehow it is patently unfair that they're not obeying the rules. More just an expression of dismay.

 

There's even a thread about a poster wanting to throw a pie in a pretty woman's face because she likes to date a lot of men looking for the right guy. Um, hello? That happens all the time with guys - they're called players.

 

It almost seems like gamer culture to me. Like the perception is that women are like MOBs in a game and you should be able to apply A + B + C and always get the desired result. "WTF? I first cast Dark Reflection on her with my Bracelet of Opulence, then used my level 37 Card of Summoning (aka American Express), switched into cat form and used my Scimitar of Need and the Dagger of Nice in my off hand and still she won't go out with me again! WTF?! So unfair!"

 

Maybe it is online dating. Just becasue you can contact every woman on the site, doesn't mean she has to go out with you. Or even respond to you. I don't care how great of a catch you think you are, or how nice you are, it doesn't work that way and that's not unfair. It certainly doesn't give you the right to be a jerk about it. I've rejected a lot of women who reached out to me on OLD and never once did one came back and call me a name. Or demand that I talk to them.

 

It is kinda comedic but it is also damn serious. Take the shooting rampage that guy went on last year in Santa Barbara. He had some serious beef with women and thinking that they owed him something. Something for his effort or some other quality that he thought entitled him to their attention.

 

It doesn't work that way guys. Dating isn't World of Warcraft. Women are unique and different. They're quirky. Just like us. Some are nice. Some are nut jobs. Some are real a-holes. Just like us. Just because she won't succumb to your Triceps of Hugeness or Proclamation of Enduring Fidelity doesn't make her bad or a cheater or worthy of your scorn. It just makes her not interested.

 

Is it just me who detects this note of entitlement and injustice coming from some of my fellow men?

 

/rant

 

Mrin

 

you hear lots of rants from women about guys who use them for sex or broke off a romance suddenly after 3 dates

 

I'll do some same gender busting here - guys don't use women for sex, women allow themselves to be used for sex. When things don't go the way she hoped they would, the woman will shirk her responsibility in the matter by saying the guy was a jerk. This is part of the reason men will complain that women have no accountability for their actions. They do have accountability, they just deny it.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Redhead14

[BluEyeL]

Well, there are guys who are jerks, i.e. lie their arse off to get sex and then they poof. But in reality, you can blame yourself too for letting them fool you. It's not too hard to read through if you are a bit careful. But it's insecurity and fear on the part of the women. It's complicated. There are sharks out there and you have to know how to defend yourself.

 

I also noticed there are some women who like to be "on the guy's side" and want to be "nice" and "undersanding" so she can show him they're not like other women who were b.itches yada yada..hoping he'd choose her. But he never does anyway. I guess the b.itches are smarter and trying to appease the guy before he earned it is not a grand idea.

[Redhead14]

Well, there are guys who are jerks, i.e. lie their arse off to get sex and then they poof. But in reality, you can blame yourself too for letting them fool you. It's not too hard to read through if you are a bit careful. But it's insecurity and fear on the part of the women. It's complicated. There are sharks out there and you have to know how to defend yourself.

 

I also noticed there are some women who like to be "on the guy's side" and want to be "nice" and "undersanding" so she can show him they're not like other women who were b.itches yada yada..hoping he'd choose her. But he never does anyway. I guess the b.itches are smarter and trying to appease the guy before he earned it is not a grand idea.

 

I also noticed there are some women who like to be "on the guy's side" and want to be "nice" and "undersanding" so she can show him they're not like other women who were b.itches yada yada..

 

Usually, those women are "trying" to do something that is outside of their nature or trying too hard, and that comes across as unnatural and/or smothering to the guy. She's not really being herself or entirely herself.

They are being over giving and sacrificing their own needs, wants, etc. until she can't take it anymore and loses it Then she's the bitch they were used to.

[Mrin]

Hey all. Not sure what I expected when I posted my original rant but I think there are some great points and perspectives being shared here. I'll just chime in with a few thoughts after catching up:

 

1. BOZG FTW! Seriously badass. I thank you for showing up like you did

 

2. Struggling Dudes: I guess you were my original target of my rant. Maybe you're not real and just rants on a dating message board. I still stand by my original premise - life is unfair. There are no rules. Don't get wrapped around the axel about a single woman. There is no secret formula to dating and romance. Don't pull back into this bunker mentality. Take some time to look at yourself, and how you occur for others.

 

3. Being a Dude: Just for the record, I love being a dude. In fact, that's kinda my point. I wholeheartedly believe us guys "have it easier" in the dating game solely by virtue that we are expected to initiate. Imagine how much it would suck not to be able to initiate lest the woman thinks the worse of you. Imagine being in a room with an attractive woman and all you can do is hope that she comes over to talk to you. Would drive me flipping nuts.

 

4. Using women for sex: I think there is a special place in Hell for men who USE women for sex. There is a special type of USING that I refer to - convincing a woman that you want a relationship but knowing all along you want is sex. That's called lying and honestly, you're exploiting an Achilles heel. Don't do it dude. It is wrong. I think this type of usage may be different and more disgusting than the whole Pick Up Artist routine. That seems more like manipulation and seduction rather than outright lying.

 

5. What's the female equivalent? I struggle with this one. Is there a female equivalent of men using women for sex? I struggle with that one. Perhaps it is my bravado or my inflated opinion of the masculine but I'm trying to think of the equivalent action of what a woman could do to me that would be just that wrong. I guess it would be using me for a pure ego stroke or to make some other dude jealous - but then again, she'd need to capture my heart and not just a sex thing. Maybe that's what SmartDude was ranting about in his pie tossing thread.

 

6. Be Good to Each Other: in the end it all comes down to this right? Just be good to each other. That doesn't mean date people you're not attracted to. What it means is treat people with honesty and respect and when things do go your way, before castigating the person or an entire gender, be reflective for a second and put it all in perspective.

 

Anyhow, appreciate everyone's thoughts on my rant.

 

Mrin

Edited April 12, 2015 by Mrin

[Harold of Andraste]

you hear lots of rants from women about guys who use them for sex or broke off a romance suddenly after 3 dates

 

I'll do some same gender busting here - guys don't use women for sex, women allow themselves to be used for sex. When things don't go the way she hoped they would, the woman will shirk her responsibility in the matter by saying the guy was a jerk. This is part of the reason men will complain that women have no accountability for their actions. They do have accountability, they just deny it.

 

Wow, two killer posts Redhead.

 

Yes, women don't get used for sex. They simply let it happen or they are in complete denial about the nature of the guy. Usually it's completely obvious what kind of guy he is but the women in question still acts stupid and just gets herself hurt. It's a very common story.

 

I also noticed there are some women who like to be "on the guy's side" and want to be "nice" and "undersanding" so she can show him they're not like other women who were b.itches yada yada..

 

Usually, those women are "trying" to do something that is outside of their nature or trying too hard, and that comes across as unnatural and/or smothering to the guy. She's not really being herself or entirely herself.

They are being over giving and sacrificing their own needs, wants, etc. until she can't take it anymore and loses it Then she's the bitch they were used to.

 

There are a couple of women like that on this forum. They are completely phony as it's all just an act and I've seen some snapping on here. Usually it's done to get more attention.

[William]

Since threads about specific members or groups of members, with 'struggling dudes of LS' being an example group, are a violation of our guidelines of interaction, let's get back to the apparently mis-categorized in our Dating forum rant about women who don't play by the rules. Our Dating forum is for member's personal interactions with dating.

 

I'll direct members to discuss the topic and will move this to GRD as the most appropriate forum. Thanks in advance for your cooperation with this moderation directive.

[Anela]

Wow, two killer posts Redhead.

 

Yes, women don't get used for sex. They simply let it happen or they are in complete denial about the nature of the guy. Usually it's completely obvious what kind of guy he is but the women in question still acts stupid and just gets herself hurt. It's a very common story.

 

 

 

There are a couple of women like that on this forum. They are completely phony as it's all just an act and I've seen some snapping on here. Usually it's done to get more attention.

 

I remember trying to tell you how it was difficult for me, more than once over the past few years. You mostly dismissed me, because I was a woman. And I've seen a woman snap when someone wouldn't leave her alone. I no longer have the patience to deal with someone being rude to me, or about women in general, so I have to walk away. As I'm going to do right now, because I'm not in a good mood.

 

*edit. Except for this one thing: some women *have* been lied to. You've never heard of men lying about their feelings, in order to get what they want? I don't believe it.

[Rejected Rosebud]

LOL, another thread bashing clueless guys.

 

Yup, this is entirely new.

It's not about "clueless" it's about guys who have self esteem and social issues putting all the blame for their own problems on women, it has nothing to do with women, it has to do with the guy who does it. FYI I don't know guys like this irl including short ones, I think most of these guys spend most of their time on computers maybe??? Because I just found out about it here ...:confused:

[Rejected Rosebud]

They don't doll themselves up to be "accepted by society"; they do it to make themselves appear more physically attractive than they otherwise would be.

Is that what we do?? :confused: Wow thank goodness for the guys like you who can help explain to me what I am like and why I do the things I do you must have a LOT of experience with women to be so smart about us!! :bunny:

[Rejected Rosebud]

When things don't go the way she hoped they would, the woman will shirk her responsibility in the matter by saying the guy was a jerk. This is part of the reason men will complain that women have no accountability for their actions.

See the difference though, THE GUY was a jerk, not MEN. Then you have "women have no accountability," that illustrates it perfectly.

[NGC1300]

Is that what we do?? :confused: Wow thank goodness for the guys like you who can help explain to me what I am like and why I do the things I do you must have a LOT of experience with women to be so smart about us!! :bunny:

 

So what other purpose does it serve?

[StanMusial]

 

It almost seems like gamer culture to me.

 

Maybe it is online dating.

/rant

 

Mrin

 

 

Online dating is a big part of it. I sympathize with any guy who is struggling to get a date and he comes on here and reads about a woman going on 100+ dates from online. LOL. With that being said, I don't feel sorry for any man under 30 who is even on dating sites anyway... just do the math.

 

I also get the impression a lot of the guys online are into video games and all of that stuff, which substitutes for their social life. Again, that's their own fault. How many dudes ever got laid by being a good at video games? Or got a girlfriend?

 

Let's face it, a lot of these guys have nothing going for them really... no big surprise they struggle. They get frustrated because a girl could go on to the dating sites and post a photo of her boobies hanging out and get swamped with emails while they get nothing. Well duh.

[road]

 

Let's face it, a lot of these guys have nothing going for them really... no big surprise they struggle. They get frustrated because a girl could go on to the dating sites and post a photo of her boobies hanging out and get swamped with emails while they get nothing. Well duh.

 

 

 

 

One time where online is the same as in reality.

[StanMusial]

One time where online is the same as in reality.

 

The only difference being, her dating pool is now restricted to only the hundreds of millions with internet access.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Any examples of guys rejecting women? I hear about such "cases" used in the manner you are doing now but I've never actually seen one myself.

Are you serious or joking?!?! Of course guys reject women all the time!!

[GemmaUK]

I'll probably get flamed for it but I'm going to do a little calling out of my own gender here. Is it just me or sometimes do you detect some sort of strange rant/whine from guys that women don't play by "the rules" and somehow that's unfair? I mean, you hear lots of rants from women about guys who use them for sex or broke off a romance suddenly after 3 dates, but you don't hear that same note of "that's not fair".

 

How many times do we hear, "why do women go for jerks and not nice guys?" rants? It seems like there is one on every page of LS and echoed in many threads. You don't hear "why do guys go for beautiful b****s and not nice girls" as much. Sure it is there, but there isn't this note of somehow it is patently unfair that they're not obeying the rules. More just an expression of dismay.

 

There's even a thread about a poster wanting to throw a pie in a pretty woman's face because she likes to date a lot of men looking for the right guy. Um, hello? That happens all the time with guys - they're called players.

 

It almost seems like gamer culture to me. Like the perception is that women are like MOBs in a game and you should be able to apply A + B + C and always get the desired result. "WTF? I first cast Dark Reflection on her with my Bracelet of Opulence, then used my level 37 Card of Summoning (aka American Express), switched into cat form and used my Scimitar of Need and the Dagger of Nice in my off hand and still she won't go out with me again! WTF?! So unfair!"

 

Maybe it is online dating. Just becasue you can contact every woman on the site, doesn't mean she has to go out with you. Or even respond to you. I don't care how great of a catch you think you are, or how nice you are, it doesn't work that way and that's not unfair. It certainly doesn't give you the right to be a jerk about it. I've rejected a lot of women who reached out to me on OLD and never once did one came back and call me a name. Or demand that I talk to them.

 

It is kinda comedic but it is also damn serious. Take the shooting rampage that guy went on last year in Santa Barbara. He had some serious beef with women and thinking that they owed him something. Something for his effort or some other quality that he thought entitled him to their attention.

 

It doesn't work that way guys. Dating isn't World of Warcraft. Women are unique and different. They're quirky. Just like us. Some are nice. Some are nut jobs. Some are real a-holes. Just like us. Just because she won't succumb to your Triceps of Hugeness or Proclamation of Enduring Fidelity doesn't make her bad or a cheater or worthy of your scorn. It just makes her not interested.

 

Is it just me who detects this note of entitlement and injustice coming from some of my fellow men?

 

/rant

 

Mrin

 

 

Going right back to the opening post here but resentment towards women and feelings of entitlement are two of the main traits in men who end up becoming controlling and emotionally or physically abusive partners.

 

 

This is why in an earlier post here I hope that guys were being tongue in cheek when they display this kind of behaviour.

 

 

I came to this site wondering what on earth had happened in a relationship I had been in and after doing some research I discovered the guy I had dated was controlling and emotionally abusive.

I would call him out on it but much of the time I thought he was kidding as he was being ridiculous. Other things were just so subtle but manipulative that I wasn't aware he was doing them.

I hadn't met a man like him before so I had no clue what I was dealing with and his behaviour just baffled me.

 

 

I haven't ever been through such a horrible experience in a relationship as I did in that one. Trying to get out of it was another story and took three attempts.

[Shining One]

Women do play by the rules... their own rules. These rules are not always published and are subject to change. Accept it and move on.

[Buddhist]

Once you have reached this age, with a few exceptions, the most attractive men and women will have already been taken.

 

To be fair men at this age may well have to put with more crap in dating, they are likely to come across women who are nut jobs, rude, flaky, etc then they would have if they were dating when they were younger as these types of women are more likely to single at this age.

 

And yet I can't really agree with any of this. Most of the nut jobs and flakes I know are married, they seem to find each other and cling on for dear life. Simply being single mid-life is not an indicator of some horrendous personality deficit, although it seems to persist as urban legend, I'll grant you that. But there are few things to consider...

 

- Refusing to marry at all is a growing social trend in developed countries. People are preferring to be single for many legitimate reasons these days.

 

- The need to now provide for oneself independant of a partner is a social requirement. Even if you do get partnered early on in life it's pretty much on the cards you will not be with this person forever. Therefore everyone (not just men) have to be ambitious and attain high salaries and make good investments to live in their later years. The race to the top is time consuming and energy consuming as well. People have less time for relationships.

 

- Many people live globetrotting lifestyles. Where once only the top execs got to travel the world for their job, now this is common even in the lower ranks. If you choose a career requiring a great deal of travel you can kiss relationships goodbye. Those who don't travel for a living tend to show little patience and understanding with those who do.

 

I personally, am more concerned about people who've had more than 20 boyfriends/girlfriends and they're only late thirties. What that says to me is that none of their relationships ever passed the honeymoon period so this person has little experience in maintaining a long term relationship and prefers to simply start over as soon as something gets difficult. They chase the hormone high.

 

It's not so much all the good ones are taken. It's more like it that they are presently entangled in any number of inconvenient situations when you meet them. People are just less free in terms of time than they used to be.

[guest569]

And what is this effort?

 

Is any of it necessary or even helpful in getting a date?

 

Duh! Of a woman looks crappy she wont get a date.

[Toodaloo]

Girl balls.

 

They are called breasts! lol

 

Going back to read the rest...

[Toodaloo]

I also noticed there are some women who like to be "on the guy's side" and want to be "nice" and "undersanding" so she can show him they're not like other women who were b.itches yada yada..

 

Usually, those women are "trying" to do something that is outside of their nature or trying too hard, and that comes across as unnatural and/or smothering to the guy. She's not really being herself or entirely herself.

They are being over giving and sacrificing their own needs, wants, etc. until she can't take it anymore and loses it Then she's the bitch they were used to.

 

This is exactly how I feel about my ex... I couldn't take it any more. I did loose it.

 

I digress... still working through the posts.

[elaine567]

I do expect that the guys on LS who blame an entire gender do it just to get a rise, men in real life just simply don't have the attitudes that we so often see on here.

 

I think some men in real life probably do have the attitudes displayed on here, it is just that they do not tend to say them out loud, because if they did, their sexist thoughts would be outed for what they are.

Most people know it is ridiculous to blame an entire gender for all the evils of the world and would shout them down.

 

In the same way, whilst some internet trolls get jumped on by the law, for their dreadful remarks, some in society will wonder what the fuss is about as they agree with the troll. However, very few will defend the troll in public, as they do not want to say they agree for fear of a backlash.

 

The internet gives many a voice that would otherwise be silent, that voice may be silly, it may be utterly ridiculous, it may be prejudiced, it may be biased, it may be untruthful, it may be controversial or it may be downright evil and wicked, but the internet has given many keyboard warriors the power to say what would be unsayable in real life.

[Shining One]

The hypothetical situation below is what A LOT of us women go through with guys like this:

 

A guy like this takes a woman out on a date and she pays her own way for her meal or the venue, she's courteous and respectful, she has a positive attitude towards him and she gives the entire dating experience a chance to see if she feels any chem or connection with him...

 

...and, if she doesn't feel any spark with him and she's honest with him and tells him this at the end of the date - he STILL thinks she's a bitch and that she's not 'being fair' because, after all, she did waste his TIME (but not his $ because she paid her own way) on this date and she 'led him on' by the sheer fact that she went out on the date with him in the first place...

 

...and he thinks that she should give him more of a chance by lowering her expectations...and because of the way she was dressed on the date, that enticed him to expect 'more' before the end of the evening...and that she should have sex with him because he's such a good 'catch', he keeps himself in shape and looks decent, he took the time to plan the date...and after all, he did cancel his entire evening to go out with her....how dare she refuse his advances?

First, let me say I agree with you on this hypothetical situation. Frankly, I would love if all of my rejections had been handled in this fashion. Unfortunately, the my real world experience has been different. I can count on one hand the number of women who have paid their share on first dates. I've had plenty drag things on for several dates (all at my expense). I know this isn't the point of your post, but I just wanted to make it clear that this is one cause of frustration for men.

 

Kudos to you for standing out and paying your share on first dates.

[toolforgrowth]

Women do play by the rules... their own rules. These rules are not always published and are subject to change. Accept it and move on.

 

I agree with most of this. I tend to think that overall in Western society, women do play by their own rules, and the issue that men have is that those rules aren't always fair or conducive to a long term relationship/marriage. I'm not saying all women are like this, but I've experienced a fair number who are.

 

Men who complain about it instead of doing something about it typically have a low opinion of themselves. I quit OLD. For men, it's a joke. But I didn't come on LS to complain about it; instead, all the women who had extremely high expectations lost out on a good catch!

 

If there's one piece of advice I'd give struggling dudes, it's to get off the damned computer and meet women in real life. Personally, I'd recommend that pretty much all men get off OLD. It truly is a waste of time, and I think it mostly appeals to the type of woman they rail against.

 

Men also reward women for their bad behavior. We put up with so much crap just for the sake of sex. This artificially inflates a woman's value; she knows she has the power because she has the pu$$y. And men only reinforce this dynamic! We need to learn how to be happy as men, take pride in our masculinity, and reject unrealistic feminist expectations and double standards. If you don't feel like paying for your date, then don't. What's the worst that could happen? She won't go out with you again.

 

I can't say I'd be particularly sad about that.

[GemmaUK]

First, let me say I agree with you on this hypothetical situation. Frankly, I would love if all of my rejections had been handled in this fashion. Unfortunately, the my real world experience has been different. I can count on one hand the number of women who have paid their share on first dates. I've had plenty drag things on for several dates (all at my expense). I know this isn't the point of your post, but I just wanted to make it clear that this is one cause of frustration for men.

 

Kudos to you for standing out and paying your share on first dates.

 

 

 

There is such an easy way around this that it makes me feel sad almost!

 

 

Talk about it before you meet!

 

 

I always have.

 

 

I never let a man pay until it's a few dates in and if he wants to, it's a shared thing.

 

 

To be perfectly honest aside from my father there is only one other man I dated who paid for my meal - he was my abusive ex who I only dated for 7 months.

He complained about southern England prices a week later, it cost him £80 for the whole night at the restaurant. He went on and on about it.... *sigh*

Note to ex: don't take her out for her birthday if you actually don't want to.

 

 

I had bought him lunch several months before - it cost me £60 - I still don't have a problem having paid for it. He liked good steak so I took him somewhere with great steak! T'was a gorgeous lunch!

 

 

PS - He earned several £K more than me and I was the one with a mortgage and bills to pay.