Women don't play by the rules

[toolforgrowth]

A man kicking up a stink about paying $20 for our date is a turn off. I want a man who isn't so tight with money or petty or thinks I am a "waste" of his money and time.

 

We won't know if you're a waste of our money and time until we get to know you. Until that happens, you are not entitled to my money. See, a guy may go out with you and decide that you ARE a waste of his money and time. It's his money; he worked for it. Being a woman doesn't automatically entitle you to some of it simply because you decide to hang out.

 

When I'm getting to know a woman, I'm willing to spend some time to get to know her, and a little bit of cash (coffee, maybe sushi). But I'm not taking you to a four star restaurant or renting a limo. How do I know you'll be worth it if I don't know who you are yet?

 

It's not about being petty. It's about me being smart with MY money.

[autumnnight]

I am ever ever so glad I did most of my dating in the 1980's and early 1990's. Before we took calculators and assumed the worst and kept a tab on everyone's worthiness and either assumed all men are out for one thing and all women want a wallet.

 

Dating in the pre-jaded-whining days was much easier.

[BlueIris]

I am ever ever so glad I did most of my dating in the 1980's and early 1990's. Before we took calculators and assumed the worst and kept a tab on everyone's worthiness and either assumed all men are out for one thing and all women want a wallet.

 

Dating in the pre-jaded-whining days was much easier.

 

Oh, man, that’s the truth.

 

When I dated on OLD, I met some men who said, “that’s how it’s done now” about some thing or another. I thought it was so weird. So you don’t decide what’s right for you? You don’t hold individual values and standards and just kind of float on whatever other people do? Zzzt. No thanks. Heaven forbid another new standard should arise that he floats on. No, decide what’s right for you and live by it. That has ALWAYS been “the rule.”

[StanMusial]

Yeah, because we all know what women care about is the numbers. Who cares what these men are actually like. People with penises want our boobs.

 

One of the major differences between men and women. Women care about more than the sheer number of available, while apparently men are obsessed with having an equal number of pairs of boobs.

 

And then they wonder why we feel like faceless meat....

 

That's not the point of that post. The point is, if a guy wants to date he's going to have to play better odds. If I was single and wanted a date this weekend I know a few places I would start looking. Certain places and certain times where "gasp" actual women are that I could talk to. It's been covered on here many times before.

[jen1447]

The last thing I need is for some guy to buy me drinks and dinner, but I gotta say, if you sit on your wallet you're not making a good impression. If that's the trait you want to lead with, fine, but it'll wash you out with me pretty quick. I don't find late-night-examination-of-balance-statements-and-budgeting-for-interpersonal-profit-cost-benefit-analysis frugality attractive at all.

[toolforgrowth]

Dating in the pre-jaded-whining days was much easier.

 

Thank the hardcore feminism we have today for that. Don't get me wrong, I think by and large feminism is a good thing. But for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction:

 

Women say they don't need a man's money? Then pay your own way when you date.

 

Women say they can be independent and have their own career? Then don't rely on marriage for your standard of living.

 

Women say they deserve custody of the children and half of a man's stuff when they divorce? Then don't expect men to get married anymore.

 

I've simply adjusted to the new social paradigm. How I live my life is in perfect alignment with feminist philosophy.

 

And it's the best thing to ever happen to me.

[autumnnight]

Thank the hardcore feminism we have today for that. Don't get me wrong, I think by and large feminism is a good thing. But for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction:

 

Women say they don't need a man's money? Then pay your own way when you date.

 

I never expect a man to pay. In fact, I have offered to split or to pay myself. Funnily enough, none of the men I have dated have taken me up on it. They must be old genteel dinosaurs like me

 

Women say they can be independent and have their own career? Then don't rely on marriage for your standard of living.

 

I never "replied" on marriage for a standard of living. Truth be told, much of the time I was married I was the only one working full time. I married because I deeply and madly loved the man. Too bad that isn't why HE married.

 

Women say they deserve custody of the children and half of a man's stuff when they divorce? Then don't expect men to get married anymore.

 

I did not ask for anything, including child support, when I decided to divorce. He couldn't have paid any anyway. And thankfully 50 50 worked fine.

 

I've simply adjusted to the new social paradigm. How I live my life is in perfect alignment with feminist philosophy.

 

And it's the best thing to ever happen to me.

 

I'm glad you have become satisfied in your chosen view of a paradigm. You may be comfortable believing the worst of all women, but when it comes to me, your argument is invalid.

[toolforgrowth]

I'm glad you have become satisfied in your chosen view of a paradigm. You may be comfortable believing the worst of all women, but when it comes to me, your argument is invalid.

 

There are exceptions to every rule. You are one of them.

 

I don't believe the worst of all women. I simply take them at their word.

[toolforgrowth]

The last thing I need is for some guy to buy me drinks and dinner, but I gotta say, if you sit on your wallet you're not making a good impression. If that's the trait you want to lead with, fine, but it'll wash you out with me pretty quick. I don't find late-night-examination-of-balance-statements-and-budgeting-for-interpersonal-profit-cost-benefit-analysis frugality attractive at all.

 

If it's the last thing you need, then why do you expect it?

 

EDIT: And while you may find frugality unattractive, the bottom line is that for men, women equal time and money...literally. Women need to make the cost WORTH IT. If you don't, then don't expect any more time and money spent on you.

 

My time and money are valuable. So I diligently monitor and track them carefully. A date doesn't keep roof over my and my daughter's heads, or food in our bellies. My money does.

 

My livelihood will ALWAYS come first. Any women who expects me to compromise that will, as you said, be washed out.

Edited April 14, 2015 by toolforgrowth

[Imajerk17]

Here's how I see the whole "paying for dates" thing: You meet an awesome girl. She made the time to meet up with you, turning down plans with her girl friends, and putting in all this extra prep just to look nice for you. Are you gonna quibble about a small bill? Seriously?

 

Now, I'm not justifying Feminine Entitlement or anything. A woman who expects a man to take her places and plan and pay for everything while she decides whether she likes him--that's a bit much, especially if it is someone she hardly knows yet. You protect yourself from this by keeping the dates INEXPENSIVE until it is clear you both like each other. That should be even easier in the coming months where the weather is getting nice in the Northern Hemisphere and it is still mild in the Southern Hemisphere. If you still view having to pay for her drink or ice cream as a sucky deal then look at it this way: Even if she gets a venti latte and you pay for it, it still isn't going to cover her gas and the time she spent both with you and preparing for the date.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Imajerk17

[toolforgrowth]

Here's how I see the whole "paying for dates" thing: You meet an awesome girl. She made the time to meet up with you, turning down plans with her girl friends, and putting in all this extra prep just to look nice for you. Are you gonna quibble about a small bill? Seriously?

 

You should keep the dates INEXPENSIVE until it is clear you both like each other. That should be even easier in the coming months where the weather is getting nice in the Northern Hemisphere and it is still mild in the Southern Hemisphere. If you still view having to pay for her drink or ice cream as a sucky deal then look at it this way: Even if she gets a venti latte and you pay for it, it still isn't going to cover her gas and the time she spent both with you and preparing for the date.

 

Now, I'm not justifying Feminine Entitlement or anything. A woman who expects a man to take her places and plan and pay for everything while she decides whether she likes him? That's crazy, especially if it is someone she hardly knows--e.g., they met via MAtch or something.

 

I have no issue paying. Heck, I've paid for almost every date my GF and I have ever been on, and I'm paying quite a bit of money for us to get away for a weekend on her birthday.

 

It's not the paying that's the issue. It's the expectation that I take issue with. A woman isn't entitled to my money simply because she's a woman. They're not the weaker sex, they can work and earn their own money like I can, and they can pay their own way...just like I can.

 

The choice to pay for her or not is mine, and I will make it how I see fit.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Easy solution, but far from practical. I expect most conversations to go like this:

 

Me: I believe it's fair for women to pay their half on first dates.

Her: I believe I'll go out with one of the many other men willing to spend money on me.

well if it's a priority of hers to have men spending money on her what do you want with her anyway?? There are lots of women who don't expect that!!! But watch out that your fear of paying for women on a date is not read as being stingy and ungenerous, those are not very popular character traits!!! I guess what I want to say is that a women enjoying and appreciating being treated by her date doesn't mean that she is greedy, and a guy who won't pay doesn't mean that he is an ungenerous person, but it seems pretty easy for people to get mixed up about these things!!

[Rejected Rosebud]

EDIT: And while you may find frugality unattractive, the bottom line is that for men, women equal time and money...literally. Women need to make the cost WORTH IT. If you don't, then don't expect any more time and money spent on you.

Well though I don't agree with you that buying a woman a cup of coffee or a beer if you are interested in her requires that she make that gesture WORTH IT, I do agree that investing our time and energy and being vulnerable to another person is a big deal and we HOPE it's worth it. That doesn't add up to a woman owing a man anything at all because he bought her something whether it was a beer or a car though!! Edited April 14, 2015 by Rejected Rosebud

[Shining One]

But watch out that your fear of paying for women on a date is not read as being stingy and ungenerous, those are not very popular character traits!!! I guess what I want to say is that a women enjoying and appreciating being treated by her date doesn't mean that she is greedy, and a guy who won't pay doesn't mean that he is an ungenerous person, but it seems pretty easy for people to get mixed up about these things!!

This is the truth. I almost always pay for dates just to ensure I'm not coming off as ungenerous. I then reserve the right to gripe about it later on internet forums.

[toolforgrowth]

Well though I don't agree with you that buying a woman a cup of coffee or a beer if you are interested in her requires that she make that gesture WORTH IT, I do agree that investing our time and energy and being vulnerable to another person is a big deal and we HOPE it's worth it. That doesn't add up to a woman owing a man anything at all because he bought her something whether it was a beer or a car though!!

 

What I reject is women feeling they are owed me buying them the coffee or the beer in the first place.

[xxoo]

Women need to make the cost WORTH IT.

 

Why even ask her out if the time with her isn't worth it?

[toolforgrowth]

Why even ask her out if the time with her isn't worth it?

 

Time is free. Money isn't. I've spent time with women and said "No more, she ain't worth it." But I'm not out cold hard cash that could be used for other things (such as myself or my daughter).

[xxoo]

Time is free. Money isn't. I've spent time with women and said "No more, she ain't worth it." But I'm not out cold hard cash that could be used for other things (such as myself or my daughter).

 

You said women need to make the cost worth it. I'm asking, why ask her out at all if it isn't worth the cost? No one is making you do this. You are asking her out and deciding on the date/cost.

[jen1447]

If it's the last thing you need, then why do you expect it?

 

EDIT: And while you may find frugality unattractive, the bottom line is that for men, women equal time and money...literally. Women need to make the cost WORTH IT. If you don't, then don't expect any more time and money spent on you.

 

My time and money are valuable. So I diligently monitor and track them carefully. A date doesn't keep roof over my and my daughter's heads, or food in our bellies. My money does.

 

My livelihood will ALWAYS come first. Any women who expects me to compromise that will, as you said, be washed out.

 

Who said I expected anything? I just find generosity and the lack of outward worry over finances endearing traits. The opposite implication applies as well - if I get the impression you're budgeting and analyzing on the fly over a nominal bill, that's off-putting to me. If the coffee shop or even a $50 restaurant bill isn't nominal to you, then you should probably say you're financially constrained up front, and chances are if I like you well enough, I'll offer to pay for it.

[toolforgrowth]

You said women need to make the cost worth it. I'm asking, why ask her out at all if it isn't worth the cost? No one is making you do this. You are asking her out and deciding on the date/cost.

 

Unless one is using OLD (which I never do), one typically knows the person they're asking out at least a little bit...enough to judge whether or not the cost of the first date is worth it. That's how I operate.

 

I pay very close attention to what my date does. When I took my GF out for drinks on our second date, I got the first round. She volunteered to pay for the second. That's when I knew she'd get that third date.

[toolforgrowth]

Who said I expected anything? I just find generosity and the lack of outward worry over finances endearing traits. The opposite implication applies as well - if I get the impression you're budgeting and analyzing on the fly over a nominal bill, that's off-putting to me. If the coffee shop or even a $50 restaurant bill isn't nominal to you, then you should probably say you're financially constrained up front, and chances are if I like you well enough, I'll offer to pay for it.

 

You said "If you sit on your wallet you're not making a good impression." My interpretation of that is that you expect men to pay. My interpretation could be wrong, but that's how it struck me. If I was mistaken, then I'd definitely appreciate clarification.

[Rejected Rosebud]

What I reject is women feeling they are owed me buying them the coffee or the beer in the first place.

How do you know they feel you owe it to them?? It really is not a heinous mistake if they think that dating behavior is a certain way because that is what they have been socialized to expect, that still doesn't mean that you MUST pay for their beer, OR that they are supposed to EARN the privilege of you paying for their beer!! Just take a stand against paying for a woman's beer or coffee if it is so important to you, you have every right to do that!! Women who have an issue with it are obviously not a good fit for you and vice versa right??

[xxoo]

Unless one is using OLD (which I never do), one typically knows the person they're asking out at least a little bit...enough to judge whether or not the cost of the first date is worth it. That's how I operate.

 

I pay very close attention to what my date does. When I took my GF out for drinks on our second date, I got the first round. She volunteered to pay for the second. That's when I knew she'd get that third date.

 

Exactly. Simple enough.

 

When I was dating, my husband wanted to pay, always. It was totally swoon-worthy to me, combined with the fact that I was hot for him and really liked him. It was just the kind of romantic icing on the cake that made me want to rip his pants off with my teeth.

 

I've always been a sucker for chivalry

[toolforgrowth]

How do you know they feel you owe it to them?? It really is not a heinous mistake if they think that dating behavior is a certain way because that is what they have been socialized to expect, that still doesn't mean that you MUST pay for their beer, OR that they are supposed to EARN the privilege of you paying for their beer!! Just take a stand against paying for a woman's beer or coffee if it is so important to you, you have every right to do that!! Women who have an issue with it are obviously not a good fit for you and vice versa right??

 

I'm not saying every woman I've ever dated felt that way. And I completely agree with your post but there are posts by women here on LS who fully expect the man to pay. I'm not calling out specific women in this thread. I'm simply saying why I reject them and their premise that men are supposed to pay. Especially in today's modern climate of women's liberation and the equal pay movement (which I heartily endorse).

[Woggle]

I miss the way relationships used to be as well but both genders made things the way they are today and both genders need to find the solution. Try and understand why many men feel the way we do and for men try and understand why many women feel the way they do.