Genuine NICE guy who tested the A-HOLE theory

[pteromom]

I'll agree with ya on the sad part, I know I won't convince you that its mostly true. You are as wedded to your view of the world as I am to mine. Only thing is

I wish it wasn't mostly true, but it's been my observation time and again.

Did you google those divorce /suicide statistics for men?

I have 2 sons and I have given them the ugly truth instead of the pretty lies I and the OP were told. they both have girlfriends and they all are happy BECAUSE my sons know the truth of what women really want. The bull crap we were fed is coming to an end thanks to the internet. I'm just glad a woman invented it, oh wait....

Yeah I know misogyny... whatever

 

Statistics don't paint a whole story. I am aware of the statistics, and am also aware that statistics can be used to prove anything. You are looking at a fact, and construing it in a way that it supports your sad beliefs. But just because a lot of women initiate divorce doesn't = she settled for a beta and then found an alpha guy to have hot sex with. In fact, most of the divorced women I know in my bracket are single and either not looking to date at all, or are more than willing to stay single if they can't find the right guy.

 

Just because something is online doesn't make it true. The internet offers a vast world to find like-minded people. In some cases, this can be wonderful. And in others, like this whole PUA culture, it can be incredibly destructive.

 

Men and women aren't enemies. We are allies. Or we should be anyway.

[Taramere]

I don't know why People still believe that only the "dumb" girls want the "A-holes". That was never the case in my HS/College.

 

It depends on how you define an *******. The guys I remember behaving like absolute arseholes (ie arrogant, unpleasant) at university were usually a bit odd generally, very right wing - and the few girls they could be seen hanging out with tended to be frumpy, yaw yaw types who were active in the University's Conservative Society.

 

If arsehole means dating/sleeping with a lot of women well....I don't really class that as a guy being an arsehole. Unless he's cheating/lying in the process. When people talk about bad guys/arseholes I tend to think they mean guys who troll unpleasantly for attention, and who nobody likes.

[plowguy1]

Very true. Any woman can believe all the "love conquers all" stuff... that if she is good enough, even the jerkiest man will fall to his knees and give her everything she wants. (and that in fact, if you can get a jerk to fall for you, that proves that you are better than your competitors.) And any woman can get caught up in believing that if a guy is a jerk, it must be her fault for not being what he wants.

 

Sometimes, the people who look most successful are actually the most insecure of all, because they thought that becoming successful would quiet all their feelings of unworthiness.

 

I just want to say I agree with all of this, I also have 17 yr old daughter.

I also agree men and women shouldn't be enemies we should work together.

And just to show I'm not totally jaded (you'll love this!) I have a date later with a nice woman I met on ok cupid! so there is some hope left. I just hope I can keep my "niceness" in check!

Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle, and we both agree more than we'd like to admit.

[Woggle]

Statistics don't paint a whole story. I am aware of the statistics, and am also aware that statistics can be used to prove anything. You are looking at a fact, and construing it in a way that it supports your sad beliefs. But just because a lot of women initiate divorce doesn't = she settled for a beta and then found an alpha guy to have hot sex with. In fact, most of the divorced women I know in my bracket are single and either not looking to date at all, or are more than willing to stay single if they can't find the right guy.

 

Just because something is online doesn't make it true. The internet offers a vast world to find like-minded people. In some cases, this can be wonderful. And in others, like this whole PUA culture, it can be incredibly destructive.

 

Men and women aren't enemies. We are allies. Or we should be anyway.

 

I agree we should be allies and part of healing is understanding and part of understand is putting yourself in other one's shoes. Both men and women need to do this and have more empathy before we can improve gender relations.

[pteromom]

I just want to say I agree with all of this, I also have 17 yr old daughter.

I also agree men and women shouldn't be enemies we should work together.

And just to show I'm not totally jaded (you'll love this!) I have a date later with a nice woman I met on ok cupid! so there is some hope left. I just hope I can keep my "niceness" in check!

Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle, and we both agree more than we'd like to admit.

 

Of course there are some societal standards that work against men (and women). But you can't live life only thinking of worst case scenarios, and you can't live life huddled in a corner pointing fingers at others for your pain.

 

If you think that reality is that there are a lot of women out there who are users and cheaters and looking to "settle" with you, it is easy enough to weed them out through smart dating. This doesn't mean being an "alpha" and asserting control over them, or making them bend to your will, or proving you are the "winner". It just means getting to know them, and comparing who they are with what you want in a partner. If those things match, hooray. If they don't, move on. It doesn't have to be a big drama.

 

Good luck on your date. It's ok to be nice. Just don't be nice to the point where you abandon your own values and integrity, and you will be ok. Even if you go and she believes in chivalry and nice guys, it isn't a personal attack against you - or men. It's just a mismatch.

[pteromom]

I agree we should be allies and part of healing is understanding and part of understand is putting yourself in other one's shoes. Both men and women need to do this and have more empathy before we can improve gender relations.

 

Yes. And part of healing and understanding is working to improve yourself too.

[BlueIris]

Keep in mind, however, that this behavior on a narcissist's part is also viewed by most as confidence, because often times, a narcissist is hard to spot initially. Especially when they're interested in you. And we know women are attracted to confidence , so...

 

Sure many or most people like confident people and at times people fall for manipulators and exploiters- Bernie Madoff, Marc Dreier, the many gurus, preachers and politicians that people have loved and believed, and who exploited them.

 

I hope that the followers and adherents of the PUA preachers realize that they too are being exploited and manipulated. Men who want more attention from women and more sex with women are dazzled by the “confidence” of their leaders. They drink their Koolaid and feel better. Classic techniques are employed to gain their adherence. Yes, "confidence" is attractive, especially to people who are in need or are greedy (like some of the supposedly smart but greedy Madoff and Dreier fans).

 

The worst thing to be is a nice guy though, still.

 

Yes, that is one of the premises of the sales pitch. In an Orwellian twisting of words for political purposes, which in America often means marketing purposes, “Nice” has come to mean something other than what it meant for centuries. “Don’t be a Nice Guy” and “Have Confidence” could be written on the entrance of the PUA church. The books and website hits for those phrases alone must be in the billions.

 

The exploiters are exploiting the “loser” and “nice guy” men who give them money by buying their stuff and reading and watching their websites and “instructional” videos, and give them their narcissistic supply.

 

I think there are truly nice good men, perhaps like OP, who were raised a certain way and then get upset or frustrated about something and they try out this A-Hole PUA stuff. The false confidence they take on and the alienation from women being sold to them is so sad. Sometimes, like OP, people can't resolve the internal discomfort with it. Sure, some just wanted to get laid and get some flattery and attention and aren't uncomfortable with it at all. They gobble it up and find comfort in being told that "it's nature" or "this is the way it REALLY is, the TRUTH."

 

But the ones my heart goes out to are the ones who get drawn in because they want to love and be loved- which I believe is a MUCH greater drive and force in the world than the Dark Triad and this power-over stuff the PUA/Dark Triad guys sell.

[Woggle]

I remember one time a cab driver of all people was trying to preach this PUA stuff to me and it felt like he was trying to indoctrinate me into a cult.

[jen1447]

Yeah, that's me.

 

Born and raised by an amazing mom, an equally awesome dad, two great sisters and a fantastic grandmother. All of them taught me to respect myself, be good to myself and treat women with the same respect, politeness and goodness that I would want to be treated with.

 

I am a nice guy with a spine and a personality. Definitely not afraid to speak my mind and let my voice be heard when the time calls for it.

 

I decided to test the theory of women going for A-HOLE guys. The aloofy, douchey, jerk types who treat women like garbage whether it mentally or physically.

 

I found my results shocking but not all that surprising.

 

#1. My success rate with women increased significantly.

 

#2. Women who I didn't care about started to care about me more.

 

#3. Women became a lot more interested in what I had to offer them.

 

#4. Women seemed to be more turned on by the nasty attitude I exuded to them.

 

Again, I was disturbed but not surprised considering how "internet" focused our society is and how a lot of women covet what the other woman has.

After discovering this I decided to take a step back from the world of women and dating to focus on making myself a better man and taking care of the family I have. Modern dating is filled with a tremendous amount of BS that isn't worth it.

 

I reminded myself that I am a good guy who likes to be nice to people and treat them with respect. There's nothing wrong with that. If the A-HOLE is what women want, I won't waste my time trying to be someone that I'm really not.

 

I have faith that I'll be able to share my life with a good woman who's born and raised with the same principles and values that I have. I'm just not wasting my time wading through the majority of the species who praise, live and die for the A-HOLE guys.

 

I'm a little skeptical of the "testing" premise, honestly. If you're a genuinely good guy, that means you were acting like an as*hole. Acting and being are far from the same thing, and most people are able to detect the difference. Were you by any chance targeting women particularly known to be unsophisticated? Your findings would probably be skewed if so, assuming you want a legitimately representative sample for your experiment.

 

I'm a bit troubled too by the implications if none of the above is so, because it means you're able to change your behavior at something approaching the level of dissociative identity disorder, which would mean you've got bigger issues at the core than how women behave.

 

Please don't take this hard, but here's what I think really is going on: first, you're not mentally ill; you may be a bit naive in believing you're able to fool everyone around you with an act; you went into this experiment with a chip on your shoulder, looking to verify what you already suspect or wanted to be true, which means you were subject to the harmful influence of confirmation bias, which itself would render your observations biased and unreliable; you probably really are a 'nice' guy (which does not mean "pussy" or "beta" or "loser," no matter what the mob says) who's been hurt like many of us have, and you're looking to rationalize your way out of the hurt or find a justification for the generally irrational position of opting out.

 

Now, if you truly do want to opt out, that's your business and I won't patronize you with "be a winner" pep talks. But please take a good hard look at who you'd ultimately be harming most by alienating yourself from the world. The answer is you.

[Taramere]

Yes, that is one of the premises of the sales pitch. In an Orwellian twisting of words for political purposes, which in America often means marketing purposes, “Nice” has come to mean something other than what it meant for centuries. “Don’t be a Nice Guy” and “Have Confidence” could be written on the entrance of the PUA church. The books and website hits for those phrases alone must be in the billions.

 

The exploiters are exploiting the “loser” and “nice guy” men who give them money by buying their stuff and reading and watching their websites and “instructional” videos, and give them their narcissistic supply.

 

Exactly. I've long felt that these PUA gurus have more success in sucking in other men (customers and fans) than they have in attracting women. As a woman, it can often feel as though men are projecting their own fascination with "dark triad" type males onto women.

 

Most narcissistic men I've encountered have not been particularly successful with women. Gay narcissistic men....that's a different matter. I really don't think that attraction to narcissistic or "dark triad" males is really quite the female pastime it's portrayed as.

 

Occasionally I've lurked on an all male forum where PUA stuff gets discussed, women get slagged off and wannabee gurus attempt to gather disciples around them. You see a lot of narcissistic bullsh*t being spouted - and some of the guys will call the narcissists out on their crap, but a surprising amount really pander to it. Maybe on some level they recognise they're pandering to another guy's bullsh*t, feel ashamed, and project it all onto the female gender in an attempt to feel better about themselves.

[xxoo]

Instead of looking at "nice guy" and "a-hole" disasters, look at successful couples. What kind of men and women do you see? Probably not a-holes!

[SawtoothMars]

Instead of looking at "nice guy" and "a-hole" disasters, look at successful couples. What kind of men and women do you see? Probably not a-holes!

 

What do you consider successful? The nicest guy I know is still married to his highschool sweetheart. She has had 2 separate affairs... but they are still together with 3 kids. Is that a success?

[elaine567]

Instead of looking at "nice guy" and "a-hole" disasters, look at successful couples. What kind of men and women do you see? Probably not a-holes!

 

 

Whilst all this worry is going on re "nice guys", "bad boys", alphas/betas, PUAs, dark triads, a***holes and "settling"... etc.. etc..

Normal men and women are just going out on dates, having fun and building relationships.

[elaine567]

What do you consider successful? The nicest guy I know is still married to his highschool sweetheart. She has had 2 separate affairs... but they are still together with 3 kids. Is that a success?

The big issue there I guess is "high school sweetheart".

[xxoo]

What do you consider successful? The nicest guy I know is still married to his highschool sweetheart. She has had 2 separate affairs... but they are still together with 3 kids. Is that a success?

 

I wouldn't feel my marriage was successful if my spouse had two affairs

 

My spouse and I have been married over 20 years, two kids, no affairs, and best friends. We are not a-holes. Neither is he a "nice guy". He's loving, kind, and caring, but tough when needed.

[GravityMan]

Trane,

 

The mere fact that you decided to run this "test" in the first place tells me the following:

 

A) You have self-confidence issues. In other words, it bothers you that a-hole guys appear to be "surrounded" by women. In addition, you're basing your self-worth as a man in the ability to attract women. Confident guys are true to their unique selves and simply go after what they want, not worrying about what other men do, think or achieve. They also are happy with just finding and building a relationship a woman that's a good match, even if it takes a long time to encounter her. Psychological tests are pointless to them (unless psychology or sociology is their profession).

 

B) You do not genuinely respect women as people. They are people, not objects or test subjects to experiment on.

[loveweary11]

Yeah, but that's only good for hookups, and lord knows it doesn't take much to get hookups these days.

 

How much girlfriend or wife material did you find?

 

Quality chicks don't care for dbags. They want a guy who is confident, in charge, successful and gives zero f&cks,except about them.

 

They want you to be nice only to them. Not a doormat, but to show you care.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's me.

 

Born and raised by an amazing mom, an equally awesome dad, two great sisters and a fantastic grandmother. All of them taught me to respect myself, be good to myself and treat women with the same respect, politeness and goodness that I would want to be treated with.

 

I am a nice guy with a spine and a personality. Definitely not afraid to speak my mind and let my voice be heard when the time calls for it.

 

I decided to test the theory of women going for A-HOLE guys. The aloofy, douchey, jerk types who treat women like garbage whether it mentally or physically.

 

I found my results shocking but not all that surprising.

 

#1. My success rate with women increased significantly.

 

#2. Women who I didn't care about started to care about me more.

 

#3. Women became a lot more interested in what I had to offer them.

 

#4. Women seemed to be more turned on by the nasty attitude I exuded to them.

 

Again, I was disturbed but not surprised considering how "internet" focused our society is and how a lot of women covet what the other woman has.

After discovering this I decided to take a step back from the world of women and dating to focus on making myself a better man and taking care of the family I have. Modern dating is filled with a tremendous amount of BS that isn't worth it.

 

I reminded myself that I am a good guy who likes to be nice to people and treat them with respect. There's nothing wrong with that. If the A-HOLE is what women want, I won't waste my time trying to be someone that I'm really not.

 

I have faith that I'll be able to share my life with a good woman who's born and raised with the same principles and values that I have. I'm just not wasting my time wading through the majority of the species who praise, live and die for the A-HOLE guys.

[markleymassraff]

I'm actually pretty in love with one of those "jerk" alpha male types right now. Really. He's incredibly attractive for a variety reasons, but he is truly the prototype jerk/player.

 

It hasn't always been this way though. I've had lots of experiences with men, and 90% of my attractions have been to "good guys" -- this time around I just happen to have become intoxicated with this really charismatic alpha male player type. He is truly hot.

 

But...I would say that most women don't actually want a jerk or an a-hole or someone who runs around with other women. It's usually that they really like the general charisma/confidence/swagger of the guy and want him to settle down with them, keeping the charisma/confidence/swagger/bada$$ness, but being good to and loyal to them (the woman in question.)

 

Won't happen, of course, but that's what women want.

 

I am IN LOVE currently. It's great and horrible at the same time.

 

I have loved "good guys" too though. And they are not always perfect either. In fact, even the non-players and non-confident-a-hole types...still can be extremely hurtful in other ways and in the liking-other-women way too. They don't necessarily "play" 100s of women like the prototype alpha-whatever, but they still like other women and hurt you in other ways too.