Genuine NICE guy who tested the A-HOLE theory

[pteromom]

A group of tween girls somehow got into the movie you're in, and are chatting and on their cell phones. They seem smug, ignorant to their surroundings, etc. but in reality they're desperately trying to get out and stay out of their house where their father abuses them. They have a history of fear and anxiety, and are heavily sensitive to criticism, as that's what preludes their fathers abuse.

 

You turning around and telling them to "Sshhh!", most certainly can hurt them. It could very well be a trigger, too. You just don't know.

 

Nope, you are just assuming. Don't worry, you're just like most people. You aren't alone.

 

And you were the one who said that what someone feels is not right or wrong -- so if this girl feels hurt, it can't be wrong, right? That would make you the wrong one for assuming.

 

Why does there have to be someone who is right and someone who is wrong? You are correct - SHHH could be a trigger for someone. That isn't something an average person would expect though, so the person saying SHHH isn't saying it with intent to harm. You say that you say things intending to hurt another person, to induce healing. That's a completely different thing.

 

In your scenario, I don't believe either person is right or wrong. The girl isn't wrong for feeling what she feels, and the shusher isn't wrong for wanting to be able to hear the movie.

 

Oh, is that why you use ad hominems against me? Lol, funny.

 

I apologize.

[jessicachoi]

Men are always struggling to adapt to what women want in terms of actions. The same pressure exists on women, but they just need to be pretty... how they act generally doesn't matter much.

 

But women ''only needing to be pretty'' and ''how they act generally doesn't matter much'', has nothing to do with what woman want. This has to do with how men (not all, a lot) don't have some standards and will have sex/date with all those kinda normal but good looking girls. Results in women having a lot of options, and that results in women able to afford having certain/high standards.

 

 

Like I said, here where I am, everyone tries to be the best, improved version of themself and then nature does it job (falling in love/getting attracted to someone). ''Best, improved version'' means having social skills, confidence, being mature, good career, hobbies, being a good person with own opinion and thoughts, taking care of your looks. And those things also happen to be what could attract a woman, see the connection? We don't have to addapt to all kinds of different things or be a ''bad guy'', but be a well-rounded with positive qualities and some social skills.

[plowguy1]

 

Generally speaking there is an enormous section of the American female population who are only turned on by abusive behavior. This is why 50 Shades of Grey can sell 50 million copies in the US. Let's get real... if that book takes place in a trailer park... then its a Law and Order episode..

 

Freaking gold!!!!!

[BlueIris]

Mean is alpha. Like it or not. Too bad. That's why women flock to it. Evolutionary psychology. Look up the dark triad.

 

Nice guys are pathetic. Plenty of girls want them but after many months of the nice guys passive aggressiveness and neediness, they all get ditched or cheated on and for good reason.

 

A nice guy is a creation stemming from believing that by being nice your needs will be met. It's a fallacy, not real, and pathetic really.

 

I noted the credentials you’ve given. Law Enforcement Agent Acquiring a Psy.D in Neuropsychology

 

I looked up “Dark Triad” and found this:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201301/shedding-light-psychology-s-dark-triad

 

I don’t believe that people are attracted to the Dark Triad of traits-

“the tendency to seek admiration and special treatment (otherwise known as narcissism),

to be callous and insensitive (psychopathy) and

to manipulate others (Machiavellianism)”

 

HOWEVER, I believe that people WITH those traits believe that they are superior and that people are attracted to them.

 

Girls of EVERY age will be attracted to the "bad" guy (emphasis on the quotations) because they exude CONFIDENCE, STRENGTH, etc. which correlates with evolutionary psychology. The hunter/gatherer mentality, which we have not evolved past yet.

...

Some people would consider me a bad guy because I offend plenty of people (by stating facts), I don't back down (until proven wrong), I say how I feel, I will tell a girl when she's wrong. But I don't cheat, abuse, etc.

 

Also, some would view me as bad because I am not the type to tell a girl all the time how lucky I am to have them and how I need them. I would rather castrate myself with flames.

 

Bad, Dark Triad, people might attract attention but so does a small black spot on a white sheet, because it is a flaw, an aberration.

 

I read the OP’s post as concluding that he could not tolerate being something he was not comfortable with inside. I see that as conscience, which is a positive and attractive trait, far more attractive than the Dark Triad.

[plowguy1]

 

 

 

Again... the dating market is much more influenced by the behavior of women than by men. If you don't have this stuff in your country... it's because the women are judging men by a difference set of criteria.

 

Men are always struggling to adapt to what women want in terms of actions. The same pressure exists on women, but they just need to be pretty... how they act generally doesn't matter much.

 

And they know it! that is why they are terrified of getting older. what makes a man more attractive tends to increase as he ages, to a point, then drops off, years after most women are lamenting their loss of power over men

[pteromom]

This is a confusing topic because even guys who enjoy punching their wives in the face think of themselves as "nice guys".

 

Well...they aren't.

 

Generally speaking there is an enormous section of the American female population who are only turned on by abusive behavior. This is why 50 Shades of Grey can sell 50 million copies in the US. Let's get real... if that book takes place in a trailer park... then its a Law and Order episode.

 

It's a fantasy. A safe fantasy. No different than the historical fiction books where a man rides up on a horse and swoops her away. In real life, that would be kidnapping. No woman really wants a stranger to come grab her and take her away. We'd be freaking terrified, because we wouldn't know his intent. But in a FANTASY, see, you know the intent. He's a good person, a strong man with a heart of gold, ready to shower us with passion, and teach us about love and sex and heat without ever REALLY hurting us. Because he's the HERO, you see.

 

Real life isn't a book.

 

And the "abusive behavior" that women are turned on by isn't REALLY abusive. It's safe fluff. Doesn't mean women want to be hit in the face.

[Strength in Healing]

I noted the credentials you’ve given. Law Enforcement Agent Acquiring a Psy.D in Neuropsychology

 

Yep, talk about a double dose of seeing the worst in people lol.

 

 

I don’t believe that people are attracted to the Dark Triad of traits-....

 

HOWEVER, I believe that people WITH those traits believe that they are superior and that people are attracted to them.

This is a very smart reply, actually. Impressive observation, and it can't be easily discredited. I would definitely wager narcissists would believe they're superior and people would be attracted to them. You're right.

 

Keep in mind, however, that this behavior on a narcissist's part is also viewed by most as confidence, because often times, a narcissist is hard to spot initially. Especially when they're interested in you. And we know women are attracted to confidence, so...

 

I read the OP’s post as concluding that he could not tolerate being something he was not comfortable with inside. I see that as conscience, which is a positive and attractive trait, far more attractive than the Dark Triad.

 

I would agree, a conscience (and empathy) are attractive. But combine those with being very strong, etc., and the balance is better than the sum of its parts.

 

The worst thing to be is a nice guy though, still.

[pteromom]

The worst thing to be is a nice guy though, still.

 

No, it is most definitely not the worst thing. There are so many worse things to be.

 

Since you and I can't agree on a definition of "nice guy" though, it is a pointless debate.

[jessicachoi]

And they know it! that is why they are terrified of getting older. what makes a man more attractive tends to increase as he ages, to a point, then drops off, years after most women are lamenting their loss of power over men

 

 

Men literally hand the power over them to women. If men didn't focus so much on the beauty side of a woman, don't kiss their ass because they are beautiful, don't date/have sex with them only because they are beautiful, then women wouldn't have that ''power of the beauty''. Women got that power because a lot of men/people in generaly bow down for some womanly beauty.

 

Anyway, hey you give me this power. I will gladly use it.

[Strength in Healing]

No, it is most definitely not the worst thing. There are so many worse things to be.

 

Since you and I can't agree on a definition of "nice guy" though, it is a pointless debate.

 

Perhaps, but most debates are. I just enjoy debating with people who don't give up, because A). it shows they're strong, which is what I like to associate with, B). it forces both parties to use their mind and grow intellectually, whether they're right or wrong, it's exercise.

 

 

 

 

Now, granted, a nice guy isn't the worst thing of course. Child predators, animal abusers, rapists, etc. are far, far worse than nice guys but on the scale of "normal" I would rather be on the darker end.

[Strength in Healing]

Men literally hand the power over them to women. If men didn't focus so much on the beauty side of a woman, don't kiss their ass because they are beautiful, don't date/have sex with them only because they are beautiful, then women wouldn't have that ''power of the beauty''. Women got that power because a lot of men/people in generaly bow down for some womanly beauty.

 

This is true, but it's not black and white.

 

Men and women use parrot points such as: "Knowing how to treat a woman" (which infers they somehow deserve to be treated different)

 

"You should never hit a woman" (But it's not nearly as bad for a woman to punch a guy)

 

"I'm a girl, I don't approach guys"

 

Etc.

 

It's an indoctrination. But it's okay, neither side gets off unscathed. Because females hold that power, but they're also constantly competing with other women, insecure about other women, insecure about their status, how they've viewed, looks, weight, whether their significant other is cheating, and eventually, if the significant other is interested in a younger girl, etc. etc.

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

Agreed, We just disagree on the percentages The ones who want nothing to do with the manipulation and trickery (and are attractive) are the ten percent, and are usually taken and valued, also known as unicorns, except they do exist. My sister is one.

 

Seriously?! Do you actually believe that the women (like me) who would NOT put up with douchebaggery behavior only consists of TEN percent of the entire female population??? LOL

 

Women like me, Pteromom, Elaine, your sister and millions of others are NOT "unicorns" - nor do we only fall into the 10% category of women who have intelligence, self-respect, decency, confidence and integrity - we EXIST. Really.

 

I think you and scores of other men would LOVE to believe (and actually brainwash yourselves into believing) that this is the case so that you all think you have an excuse to treat the other supposed 90% of women like $hit. Sure, you'll probably get a "lay" out of the deal (and a weak and emotionally damaged woman to manipulate and abuse), but that's about it.

 

Believe it or not, there ARE nice guys out there who are confident, aggressive but not cocky about it, respectful and.....wait for it.........MASCULINE. You don't have to be a d!ck to be a masculine, confident guy who dates (or wants to have sex with) attractive, confident and intelligent women. It's all about who you ARE - at your core.

 

 

.

[plowguy1]

Oh boy. Not true.

 

We have to be sexy - but NOT slutty! We have to make other guys jealous of our guy, but NOT to the point where they are hitting on us or making our guy feel insecure. We have to take on traditional gender roles of nurturing, cooking, cleaning, but be progressive when it comes to chivalry and paying for dates. We have to want sex. A lot. And we have to accept that our guy looks at porn, and can't take it personally or compare ourselves to the actresses because that's just fake. But the porn SEX isn't fake - we should totally do everything just that way, and act the same way as those women, and be up for anything. Otherwise, it is ok if he cheats and we should expect it. When we have babies, everything is expected to go back to how it was. If not - gotta be ok with him cheating. Nobody wants to screw a fat chick! We need to have long hair and big boobs and spray tans and painted nails and high heels, or we have "let ourselves go". But we can't show too much cleavage, or we are just begging for attention.

 

 

Nope, just don't be fat, and understand that as men we are wired to notice and appreciate female beauty (its how you got us) and just because are committed to you, that does not stop. yes there are men who cheat (see large alphas with $ who WOMEN throw themselves at) and that is wrong.

The reality is that the woman who has "let herself go" is reading 50 shades of grey in her sweatpants, and as Chris Rock says is pissed off cause her man was not her first choice.

She might pull herself together in her "foolish forties" (which starts around 36) and find an alpha who "makes her feel alive again" and destroy her husband and family. (see suicide statistics for divorced men over 40), or she will just slowly suck the life out of her workhorse. a few lucky guys will get a good woman, but the odds are not good. The house always wins

[jessicachoi]

a few lucky guys will get a good woman, but the odds are not good. The house always wins

 

Wow. That is not a very bright and positive view, and I think also an unrealistic view. your mind is making it worse than it is. I think in the end, most good women/good men(no not "nice guys") will end up with a good man/good woman.

[pteromom]

Perhaps, but most debates are. I just enjoy debating with people who don't give up, because A). it shows they're strong, which is what I like to associate with, B). it forces both parties to use their mind and grow intellectually, whether they're right or wrong, it's exercise.

 

 

Persistence doesn't equal intelligent though. Sometimes giving up is the stronger choice.

 

Now, granted, a nice guy isn't the worst thing of course. Child predators, animal abusers, rapists, etc. are far, far worse than nice guys but on the scale of "normal" I would rather be on the darker end.

 

See, I still think being on the "darker end" shows a need to have control over others, which shows an insecurity or feeling of inferiority. If you are truly confident in yourself, then what others think and do doesn't affect your opinion about yourself. There doesn't have to be a winner and loser in every interaction between people. You (general you, not you specifically) don't have to manipulate others to gain validation of your own worth or intelligence or superiority.

[pteromom]

Nope, just don't be fat, and understand that as men we are wired to notice and appreciate female beauty (its how you got us) and just because are committed to you, that does not stop. yes there are men who cheat (see large alphas with $ who WOMEN throw themselves at) and that is wrong.

The reality is that the woman who has "let herself go" is reading 50 shades of grey in her sweatpants, and as Chris Rock says is pissed off cause her man was not her first choice.

She might pull herself together in her "foolish forties" (which starts around 36) and find an alpha who "makes her feel alive again" and destroy her husband and family. (see suicide statistics for divorced men over 40), or she will just slowly suck the life out of her workhorse. a few lucky guys will get a good woman, but the odds are not good. The house always wins

 

Oh this whole post makes me sad. I can't believe ANYONE thinks this way. I know I see you guys on here spewing this crap all the time, but it still just blows my mind.

[MLAZ1990]

Wow. That is not a very bright and positive view, and I think also an unrealistic view. your mind is making it worse than it is. I think in the end, most good women/good men(no not "nice guys") will end up with a good man/good woman.

 

So a nice guy isn't a good man? I love the logic there!!! LOL!!!

[Woggle]

While I would never pretend to be something I am not I must say there are a lot of damaged women out there who fall for this stuff like a moth to a flame. The ones who are nothing like this don't take offense but if you are a man who has dated women you understand how frustrating it is to try and date in a society that seems filled with these kinds of women. I would rather be who I am and see it as weeding out the women I don't want anyway but I do understand why guys get discouraged. Until you have experienced what modern dating is like for a guy try and refrain from judging.

[elaine567]

Oh this whole post makes me sad. I can't believe ANYONE thinks this way. I know I see you guys on here spewing this crap all the time, but it still just blows my mind.

 

I guess it is a viewpoint created by hurt.

There are a lot of hurt, bitter guys out there.

[Revolver]

I don't know why People still believe that only the "dumb" girls want the "A-holes". That was never the case in my HS/College.

[pteromom]

I guess it is a viewpoint created by hurt.

There are a lot of hurt, bitter guys out there.

 

Yes, it is a deflection. It is easier to cast blame outward than inward for most people.

[pteromom]

I don't know why People still believe that only the "dumb" girls want the "A-holes". That was never the case in my HS/College.

 

Not DUMB. Insecure and/or immature and/or trying to redo crap with their own father. They aren't dumb. They just have to learn.

 

You never can tell from the outside what is going on inside either. A girl can be super hot and flirty and seem like a "top tier" girl, and still go home and cry for what she feels she lacks.

[Woggle]

I don't know why People still believe that only the "dumb" girls want the "A-holes". That was never the case in my HS/College.

 

Book smart women might want jerks but women with emotional intelligence don't. The woman who has success in professional life but keeps having bad luck with men is almost a cliche at this point. It is book smarts without people smarts and street smarts. Many men suffer from it as well.

[plowguy1]

Oh this whole post makes me sad. I can't believe ANYONE thinks this way. I know I see you guys on here spewing this crap all the time, but it still just blows my mind.

 

I'll agree with ya on the sad part, I know I won't convince you that its mostly true. You are as wedded to your view of the world as I am to mine. Only thing is

I wish it wasn't mostly true, but it's been my observation time and again.

Did you google those divorce /suicide statistics for men?

I have 2 sons and I have given them the ugly truth instead of the pretty lies I and the OP were told. they both have girlfriends and they all are happy BECAUSE my sons know the truth of what women really want. The bull crap we were fed is coming to an end thanks to the internet. I'm just glad a woman invented it, oh wait....

Yeah I know misogyny... whatever

[pteromom]

Book smart women might want jerks but women with emotional intelligence don't. The woman who has success in professional life but keeps having bad luck with men is almost a cliche at this point. It is book smarts without people smarts and street smarts. Many men suffer from it as well.

 

Very true. Any woman can believe all the "love conquers all" stuff... that if she is good enough, even the jerkiest man will fall to his knees and give her everything she wants. (and that in fact, if you can get a jerk to fall for you, that proves that you are better than your competitors.) And any woman can get caught up in believing that if a guy is a jerk, it must be her fault for not being what he wants.

 

Sometimes, the people who look most successful are actually the most insecure of all, because they thought that becoming successful would quiet all their feelings of unworthiness.