Genuine NICE guy who tested the A-HOLE theory

[pteromom]

a lot of the above is correct but you still have factor in age. younger women love to be treated bad, older women not so much.

 

No, no, no. Younger women don't love being treated badly.

 

They just have the FALSE belief that they are being treated badly because of something THEY said or did, and that if they just do things differently, look differently, act differently, that their love will magically turn an A-HOLE into a kind, loving man.

 

As we age, we learn that jerks are jerks, and if a jerk is treating us jerky, it is because HE is the jerk, and doesn't mean that we aren't worthy or deserving of love and respect.

[OnlyHonesty]

Lets twist them some more.

 

I am really a genuine nice girl.

Born and raised by an amazing mom, an equally awesome dad, two great brothers and a fantastic grandfather.

 

I decided to test the theory of men going for sluts.

I found my results shocking but not all that surprising.

 

#1. My success rate with men increased significantly.

 

#2. Men who I didn't care about started to care about me more.

 

#3 Men became a lot more interested in what I had to offer them.

 

#4. Men seemed to be more turned on by the slutty attitude I exuded to them.

 

 

Given the fact that women rarely if ever approach men, do not face rejection, are not the ones buying the drinks, introducing themselves or doing the chasing your post does not make much sense, if any at all.

 

Women are the ones that have more control in the dating game and Ive seen all sorts of women receive huge amounts of interest from dating profiles that barely had a good picture on or any details other than ''I enjoy eating and watching TV''.

[Strength in Healing]

No, no, no. Younger women don't love being treated badly.

 

They just have the FALSE belief that they are being treated badly because of something THEY said or did

 

 

No.

 

What you're describing is much more on par with an abusive relationship. Big difference between what some people consider being "treated badly" and being abused.

 

Some girls think being treated badly is when the guy doesn't pay for dinner every time. Some girls think being treated badly is when a guy can't stay in constant contact throughout the day.

 

And some girls think being treated badly is being hit and cheated on. These girls are the correct ones.

 

 

 

 

Girls of EVERY age will be attracted to the "bad" guy (emphasis on the quotations) because they exude CONFIDENCE, STRENGTH, etc. which correlates with evolutionary psychology. The hunter/gatherer mentality, which we have not evolved past yet.

 

Plenty of healthy, well-adjusted girls seek the guy some people view as bad because they personally rate their independence as something they value highly, and a "bad" guy is the opposite of needy, and let's them be independent while still having someone there for them.

 

Bad =/= cheater, abuser.

 

Some people would consider me a bad guy because I offend plenty of people (by stating facts), I don't back down (until proven wrong), I say how I feel, I will tell a girl when she's wrong. But I don't cheat, abuse, etc.

 

Also, some would view me as bad because I am not the type to tell a girl all the time how lucky I am to have them and how I need them. I would rather castrate myself with flames.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Strength in Healing

[pteromom]

Mean is alpha. Like it or not. Too bad. That's why women flock to it. Evolutionary psychology. Look up the dark triad.

 

Nice guys are pathetic. Plenty of girls want them but after many months of the nice guys passive aggressiveness and neediness, they all get ditched or cheated on and for good reason.

 

A nice guy is a creation stemming from believing that by being nice your needs will be met. It's a fallacy, not real, and pathetic really.

 

GAH. This sounds so silly, I am not sure where to start.

 

Mean is not alpha. ALPHA is being authentic. It's being strong. It's having the balls to go for what you want and put in the WORK for it without whining and complaining and being a victim.

 

Being a "nice guy" doesn't mean being a whiny needy sniveling loser. A "nice guy" is someone who is respectful and kind and understanding and who wants BOTH PEOPLE in a relationship (whether that relationship is romantic or otherwise) to have their needs met. A true "nice guy" also understands that the other person in the relationship may have a different perspective and different needs and different goals, and he works to understand and negotiate. An ALPHA nice guy will stand up for what he wants and be strong enough to end the relationship if it is making him unhappy. A PATHETIC (or beta, if you wish) nice guy will just whine and complain and say woe-is-me and run around in circles trying to make something work that obviously isn't working.

 

As far as believing that by being nice, your needs will be met, that is a belief that stems from plain immaturity. Same as I said about women who believe their love can magically transform a jerk into a good person. An immature guy may believe that by being nice, a woman will magically become HIS fantasy too. That's just not the case. We are all individuals. We all have our own likes, dislikes, hang-ups, baggage, and fantasies. In a mature relationship, the two people go in not with a list of expectations, but with a desire to learn who the other is, to see if he/she is compatible and wants the same things.

 

(shaking head)

[Strength in Healing]

Alpha is being authentic? So a child molester who sincerely is attracted to children and acts on it is alpha?

 

Not too sure about that logic.

 

As for your opinion of what constitutes a nice guy, well, the key words there is your opinion. You should probably reword the title of what you think is a "nice guy", to your personal "ideal guy".

 

An actual nice guy is far more consistent with your description in the final paragraph.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Strength in Healing

[Ruby Slippers]

I've found the same as a woman dealing with men. "Good girls" are boring; "bad girls" are sexy and exciting.

[pteromom]

Some girls think being treated badly is when the guy doesn't pay for dinner every time. Some girls think being treated badly is when a guy can't stay in constant contact throughout the day.

 

And to THAT girl, maybe it is. And I still say that a girl should have the guts to say "THIS is what I want", and then move on if a guy has a different definition of a good relationship. If a girl wants a guy who always pays for dinner, she has a right to go find that. If a girl wants to be called 30 times a day, she can go find a guy who wants to call 30 times a day.

 

And some girls think being treated badly is being hit and cheated on. These girls are the correct ones.

 

There is no correct/incorrect when it comes to what an individual wants. If a guy thinks being treated badly is only having sex 3 times a week, and he wants it twice a day, he has a right to go find a woman who wants it 3 times a day - OR he can choose to accept what he gets, but then he can't complain when the woman doesn't feel the same way.. (same with the girls in the scenarios above...if a girl believes a guy should always pay, and is with a guy who likes 50/50, she gets to decide how important her belief is to her, and if she decides she likes him enough to accept him anyway, she has to accept that he/s a 50/50 guy.)

 

 

Girls of EVERY age will be attracted to the "bad" guy (emphasis on the quotations) because they exude CONFIDENCE, STRENGTH, etc. which correlates with evolutionary psychology. The hunter/gatherer mentality, which we have not evolved past yet.

 

BLECH. No. Even in high school, I was attracted to the quiet geeky guys. I like guys who are smart, cute, and who blush when you talk to them. I like guys who are kind and respectful and sweet. I have always found bad guys repulsive, and as I have aged, that aversion has only become stronger. I have no desire to tolerate people who treat others badly. RESPECT is my #1. Above looks, above height, above money...

 

Plenty of healthy, well-adjusted girls seek the guy some people view as bad because they personally rate their independence as something they value highly, and a "bad" guy is the opposite of needy, and let's them be independent while still having someone there for them.

 

No... a GOOD guy is the one who lets them be independent. He's the one who understands she is an individual with her own life. Bad guys either don't give a sh** or they look at her as a possession they control.

 

Some people would consider me a bad guy because I offend plenty of people (by stating facts), I don't back down (until proven wrong), I say how I feel, I will tell a girl when she's wrong. But I don't cheat, abuse, etc.

 

I don't consider you a bad guy for speaking your mind - UNLESS you are speaking it in a way to demean or diminish others. If you are sharing your opinions or standing up for yourself, great. If you are using your opinions to try to control or shame others, then yes, you are a jerk.

 

Also, some would view me as bad because I am not the type to tell a girl all the time how lucky I am to have them and how I need them. I would rather castrate myself with flames.

 

This comes not from authenticity but from insecurity. You view this type of behavior as taking a place of inferiority to her, to placing her on a pedestal, to kissing her butt. But in reality, when you are happy and secure and know who you are, you are happy to make other people happy too. You can tell a girl that she is beautiful and you are lucky to have her, and it can come from a place of true sharing - it doesn't place her above you, but beside you. Hopefully as you get a little older, you'll learn this.

[pteromom]

Alpha is being authentic? So a child molester who sincerely is attracted to children and acts on it is alpha?

 

I guess he could be. But being ALPHA doesn't mean being good or being bad. You can be a GOOD alpha or a BAD alpha. So sure, a child molester who goes out and gets what he wants is being alpha. He's a horrible person who should be castrated, but he's acting ALPHA.

 

A good alpha would understand that his desires could hurt others, and would take charge of protecting himself and others. He would read books, seek therapy, take a career that keeps him away from children, never have children, and never date women with children or who want children.

 

As for your opinion of what constitutes a nice guy, well, the key words there is your opinion. You should probably reword the title of what you think is a "nice guy", to your personal "ideal guy".

 

An actual nice guy is far more consistent with your description in the final paragraph.

 

...and that's YOUR OPINION.

[jessicachoi]

I would love if you could cite a source/peer-reviewed study that says girls who like mean guys have low self esteem. Haven't come across it in my first 4 years of my Psy.D, quite the opposite... but I'll wait lol.

 

 

Bad men can pick out the women who got selfesteem issues, bad view on themself, have sex with men because they are desperate for some attention/feeling wanted, have issues in general and are in a weak spot of their life. And bad men take advantage of that.

 

Thank god we don't have that Nice Guy VS Bad men / ''all girls like jerks an mean guys'' bull**** where I live.

[Strength in Healing]

Well, you're right to some degree then ptero, by your definition I am a jerk. I do offend people, often times on purpose.

 

The reason for this is because some times you have to hurt to heal. To bypass walls people have up, selective hearing, etc.

 

In the medical industry, there is something called prolotherapy. This is, basically, injecting something bad to a hurt joint to cause inflammation, which eventually results in healing to a greater state than before.

 

I adopt this method psychologically. If it benefits someone for me to hurt them, I do. This is not too uncommon -- it's similar to how if someone at a movie theater is being rude and you tell them to please stop talking, you're actually offending them typically. But hurting them is actually helping them. I apply this mentality much deeper, but it comes with years of knowledge in psychology. I don't just drop bombs.

 

 

 

But I do have to target your logic here again. You said:

 

There is no correct/incorrect when it comes to what an individual wants.

 

Well then, by all means, I hope if I click on your name and read your posts, well, I hope I don't see you offer advice when someone going through a breakup wants to break NC and reach out to them again. I hope you don't try to discourage someone from acting in a way they want, period.

 

Not too sound of logic, though.

[pteromom]

Thank god we don't have that Nice Guy VS Bad men / ''all girls like jerks an mean guys'' bull**** where I live.

 

You probably do, but fortunately, it is a minority of men who believe this. Usually men who are too afraid to go out and put in the work to win a relationship, or who can't deal with rejection, so they tell themselves it is because of "the system" or because women are evil...that way, the blame is taken off them, and they can be victims because they are just "nice guys" who are not desired and who are treated wrongly.

[Strength in Healing]

Bad men can pick out the women who got selfesteem issues, bad view on themself, have sex with men because they are desperate for some attention/feeling wanted, have issues in general and are in a weak spot of their life. And bad men take advantage of that.

 

Thank god we don't have that Nice Guy VS Bad men / ''all girls like jerks an mean guys'' bull**** where I live.

 

 

Well, you're right with the first paragraph. This isn't the case 100% of the time, but TRULY bad men (criminals, etc). do have a tendency to be greater at manipulation. Those guys can pick up and target them.

 

Me, though, many would consider a bad boy (got called it 3 days ago in fact by a doctoral student no less), but I don't go for girls with poor self-esteem.

 

But as for you saying you thank God you don't have that debate about good/bad where you live... lol. You do. Just because you haven't seen or heard it doesn't mean it isn't raging on everywhere. It is. Every day, every place where a nice guy gets frustrated and asks why nice guys finish last, the debate begins.

[pteromom]

Well, you're right to some degree then ptero, by your definition I am a jerk. I do offend people, often times on purpose.

 

The reason for this is because some times you have to hurt to heal. To bypass walls people have up, selective hearing, etc.

 

In the medical industry, there is something called prolotherapy. This is, basically, injecting something bad to a hurt joint to cause inflammation, which eventually results in healing to a greater state than before.

 

Blah blah blah blah...

 

All I hear is "I feel inferior to people so I have to take a position of superiority over them by hurting them."

 

I adopt this method psychologically. If it benefits someone for me to hurt them, I do. This is not too uncommon -- it's similar to how if someone at a movie theater is being rude and you tell them to please stop talking, you're actually offending them typically. But hurting them is actually helping them. I apply this mentality much deeper, but it comes with years of knowledge in psychology. I don't just drop bombs.

 

It's not your job to heal other people. Telling someone to stop talking may offend them, but that doesn't HURT them. I don't have a problem with that. But manipulating people to "heal" them? You sound like someone I do not want to know in real life.

 

But I do have to target your logic here again. You said:

 

There is no correct/incorrect when it comes to what an individual wants.

 

Well then, by all means, I hope if I click on your name and read your posts, well, I hope I don't see you offer advice when someone going through a breakup wants to break NC and reach out to them again. I hope you don't try to discourage someone from acting in a way they want, period.

 

Not too sound of logic, though.

 

I am not saying that what someone wants is always what is best for them. But their FEELINGS are not wrong/right. If someone wants to break NC, they have the right to do so. I can offer advice, if someone is asking for it (LS is not real life - I don't go around in real life telling people what they should do). But it is ultimately THEIR choice to decide what is right for them. As it should be.

[Strength in Healing]

It's not your job to heal other people.

 

Right now, you're right. My job is law enforcement. My job is to protect people.

However, being as how I am about to be a psychologist, my job certainly is ABOUT to be healing other people.

 

Telling someone to stop talking may offend them, but that doesn't HURT them.

 

I thought you said in this post that what someone FEELS is not right/wrong? So, if they feel hurt, they're wrong because you clearly don't think that they can feel hurt? Hurt/offended are pretty much synonyms. That's semantics. Best believe if you tell someone to stop talking it can hurt them.

 

I don't have a problem with that. But manipulating people to "heal" them? You sound like someone I do not want to know in real life.

 

 

Yes, 100% I will manipulate someone if it is truly in their best interest, and I won't hesitate to. All psychologists and psychiatrists will. So... save the attitude, and you must think highly of yourself if you think it would mean anything to me if you want to know me in real life or not lol.

 

 

 

As for me feeling inferior and overcompensating, well, that's interesting, but I'm not a narcissist, which that is a symptom of. Not a bad guess from someone outside the field, though. Better than most people would guess.

[plowguy1]

 

Please, DON'T have an attitude like that! Women like me were once combing the ends of the earth to find guys like you. And, just because I've given up hope of ever finding a sweet decent guy, that doesn't mean every woman has! I'm certain that there are attractive women in your age range and in your locality who are looking for a NICE DECENT guy like you.

 

 

 

.

 

Oh, So its ok for you to "give up" based on YOUR observations of the way things are but not ok for men to do it? Really? He said not ALL women are this way just 90% and he doesnt even fault them for it (nor do I) Its just the way it is. I do understand it, most women live in fantasyland and don't. If you have his personality (and I do) things are gonna be not easy for you. Yeah you'll have your pick of the overweight girls, but some of us (most) dont want that. A man cant do anything about being short, and not much about being skinny. but Ive seen an awful lot of formerly fat women.

Some things are attainable with a lot of effort, but we all have to make choices about what is worth it. Like he said, half the battle for a tall man is just getting out of bed in the morning. all the better if he has money. Again I UNDERSTAND IT

[jessicachoi]

 

But as for you saying you thank God you don't have that debate about good/bad where you live... lol. You do. Just because you haven't seen or heard it doesn't mean it isn't raging on everywhere. It is. Every day, every place where a nice guy gets frustrated and asks why nice guys finish last, the debate begins.

 

Yes you are right, but not on this ''extreme'' degree. It's like ya all made a lot of terms/unwritten rules/categories which make it just difficult to date. Stop making problems and stop searching for problems which aren't even there for the most part. It's mostly all in your head...

 

I am sure there are ''nice guys'' like here too, but here they step up the game by becoming more confident and realize that by being a boring doormate wihout a backbone won't do anything, but got enough sense knowing that this isn't a black-white case. You can't catagorize men in either ''Nice guy'' or ''Bad men'', and luckily a lot of men do realize that. No luck with being a nice guy? Be more confident, get a life, be open, be more fun. Improve yourself.

[Strength in Healing]

Yes you are right, but not on this ''extreme'' degree. It's like ya all made a lot of terms/unwritten rules/categories which make it just difficult to date. Stop making problems and stop searching for problems which aren't even there for the most part. It's mostly all in your head...

 

 

Lol yes Jessica, I can see this. You speak the truth. It IS in guys and girls heads -- these dynamics. These rules. These fears and anxieties.

 

Personally, I think a lot of it has to do with our culture. I am sure not everyone here is from the USA, but I bet the majority are. I love the USA to death (not so much the political parties though), but we are definitely high on the vain scale (selfie sticks?) and this amplifies us being insecure, needy, and everything else across the board.

[pteromom]

Right now, you're right. My job is law enforcement. My job is to protect people.

However, being as how I am about to be a psychologist, my job certainly is ABOUT to be healing other people.

 

Oh wow. Scary.

 

I thought you said in this post that what someone FEELS is not right/wrong? So, if they feel hurt, they're wrong because you clearly don't think that they can feel hurt? Hurt/offended are pretty much synonyms. That's semantics.

 

Hurt and offended aren't synonyms.

 

If I say "Shhhhh!" sternly at someone in a move, they may be offended. They may scoff, argue back, or mutter a comment. They may talk about me after the movie "Can you believe that b**** shushed us?" But they aren't HURT. They aren't going to go home and cry about it, or feel personally attacked by it.

 

If I say to an overweight person eating a hot dog "Oink oink, slow down, piggy!", THAT is a hurtful comment. Could it possibly help them too? Could they go home and look in the mirror and think "OMG, that lady is right. I need to change my life!" Could my rudeness "heal" someone? Maybe. But it also HURTS them. They will feel "less than" because of me. And that is not something I ever want to cause.

 

Yes, 100% I will manipulate someone if it is truly in their best interest, and I won't hesitate to. All psychologists and psychiatrists will. So... your attitude is useless, and you must think highly of yourself if you think it would mean anything to me if you want to know me in real life or not lol.

 

I do think highly of myself...and I think highly of you too. And everyone else. I just disagree with you about ...well, everything.

 

I just hope you understand that you aren't the authority on the world. That your attitudes and beliefs aren't facts, and that other people may have a completely different perspective, and that doesn't make them WRONG. Every rule has exceptions, and it is destructive to think in generalities.

 

As for me feeling inferior and overcompensating, well, that's interesting, but I'm not a narcissist, which that is a symptom of. Not a bad guess from someone outside the field, though. Better than most people would guess.

 

Hhahahahahahaha. Ok.

[SawtoothMars]

Because his transformation is ''Genuine NICE guy'' to ''******* with a nasty attitude towards woman''. Because being an ******* is not the right way, being an ******* can be harmful. He should transform in a confident, good, assertive, interesting version of himself.

Women who likes ******* who behave very nasty to them are mostly women with poor selfesteem, bad past, bad situation, are hurt, desperate for any kind of attention and love and he takes advantage of it. Not good, no human should do that.

So much for the ''Genuine NICE guy'' title.. sob sob, I am nice and genuine and no one likes me that way. But hey I do not mind being an ******* & being nasty towards women. Also do not mind taking advantage of their poor selfesteem. Oooh so nice.

 

This is a confusing topic because even guys who enjoy punching their wives in the face think of themselves as "nice guys".

 

Generally speaking there is an enormous section of the American female population who are only turned on by abusive behavior. This is why 50 Shades of Grey can sell 50 million copies in the US. Let's get real... if that book takes place in a trailer park... then its a Law and Order episode.

 

Bad men can pick out the women who got selfesteem issues, bad view on themself, have sex with men because they are desperate for some attention/feeling wanted, have issues in general and are in a weak spot of their life. And bad men take advantage of that.

Thank god we don't have that Nice Guy VS Bad men / ''all girls like jerks an mean guys'' bull**** where I live.

 

Again... the dating market is much more influenced by the behavior of women than by men. If you don't have this stuff in your country... it's because the women are judging men by a difference set of criteria.

 

Men are always struggling to adapt to what women want in terms of actions. The same pressure exists on women, but they just need to be pretty... how they act generally doesn't matter much.

[Strength in Healing]

Oh wow. Scary.

 

Lmao, thank you.

 

 

 

If I say "Shhhhh!" sternly at someone in a move, they may be offended. .... But they aren't HURT. They aren't going to go home and cry about it, or feel personally attacked by it.

 

This is a fallacy to say. I'll give you just one scenario.

 

A group of tween girls somehow got into the movie you're in, and are chatting and on their cell phones. They seem smug, ignorant to their surroundings, etc. but in reality they're desperately trying to get out and stay out of their house where their father abuses them. They have a history of fear and anxiety, and are heavily sensitive to criticism, as that's what preludes their fathers abuse.

 

You turning around and telling them to "Sshhh!", most certainly can hurt them. It could very well be a trigger, too. You just don't know.

 

Nope, you are just assuming. Don't worry, you're just like most people. You aren't alone.

 

And you were the one who said that what someone feels is not right or wrong -- so if this girl feels hurt, it can't be wrong, right? That would make you the wrong one for assuming.

 

 

I do think highly of myself...and I think highly of you too.

 

Oh, is that why you use ad hominems against me? Lol, funny.

 

And everyone else. I just disagree with you about ...well, everything.

 

I prefer people in the wrong disagree with me, because by default that makes me on the correct side.

 

I just hope you understand that you aren't the authority on the world. That your attitudes and beliefs aren't facts, and that other people may have a completely different perspective

 

Hmm, better take your own advice

[plowguy1]

 

Not ALL women are susceptible to PUA tricks, some fall hook, line and sinker, because they are nice, naive, trusting or insecure; some go along with the flow, because they simply want a superficial fling, and others want nothing to do with manipulation and trickery.

Agreed, We just disagree on the percentages The ones who want nothing to do with the manipulation and trickery (and are attractive) are the ten percent, and are usually taken and valued, also known as unicorns, except they do exist. My sister is one.

[pteromom]

Men are always struggling to adapt to what women want in terms of actions. The same pressure exists on women, but they just need to be pretty... how they act generally doesn't matter much.

 

Oh boy. Not true.

 

We have to be sexy - but NOT slutty! We have to make other guys jealous of our guy, but NOT to the point where they are hitting on us or making our guy feel insecure. We have to take on traditional gender roles of nurturing, cooking, cleaning, but be progressive when it comes to chivalry and paying for dates. We have to want sex. A lot. And we have to accept that our guy looks at porn, and can't take it personally or compare ourselves to the actresses because that's just fake. But the porn SEX isn't fake - we should totally do everything just that way, and act the same way as those women, and be up for anything. Otherwise, it is ok if he cheats and we should expect it. When we have babies, everything is expected to go back to how it was. If not - gotta be ok with him cheating. Nobody wants to screw a fat chick! We need to have long hair and big boobs and spray tans and painted nails and high heels, or we have "let ourselves go". But we can't show too much cleavage, or we are just begging for attention.

 

Look - it is hard on all of us. We all have expectations, different ideals, media, societal rules, etc. etc. etc. to deal with. We all try to be what the other "side" wants. We all try to balance who we feel we are inside with who we feel we should be. And that is really sad to me. Because I think every person is OK as they are, and if everyone would stop the posturing and game-playing, we could get to a place, where we could just SEE each other and choose partners based on reality instead of a game. We could get to a place where we could drop expectations and start from scratch getting to know someone and defining what a good relationship means - between TWO people. Not based on movies and tv and books and what other people do.

[pteromom]

Hmm, better take your own advice

 

Absolutely - I don't feel I am always right. Or even near perfect. I just do the best I can, just like everyone else.

[ThaWholigan]

And into the familiar direction we go

 

Because everyone is the same

[Strength in Healing]

Well I give you credit ptero. You held your own, stuck to your points, fought for what you believed was right. I give you much credit. I would be willing to bet you are a good mother.