Consensus - Marriage unhealthy if partner in affair

[spookysonata]

Yep. The "great relationship" is the affair

 

Maybe that's your...experience. It's not true for everybody by a long shot.

But you knew that!

[anika99]

The unhealthiness and unhappiness in the marriage/relationship does not equate to happiness elsewhere.

The fact few affairiages last long term, is not relevant.

 

If I am unhappy living in Belgium for instance and I decide to move to France, is it guaranteed I will be happier in France?

No, of course not. I may be just as unhappy in France, or I may be happier.

I moved to France because I was unhappy in Belgium full stop, what happens after that is in the lap of the Gods. France may just be a stopping off point.

 

You are correct. If you had personal unhappiness while living in Belgium you will probably still be unhappy living in France. If you were personally unhappy you could probably live in 50 different countries and still be unhappy in all of them, because a specific location generally doesn't determine one's personal happiness. Just like changing partners doesn't fix personal unhappiness.

[cocorico]

Those who are APs, what are your thoughts on this? How does it feel to have that said by 50 experts in the mental health field? Does it change your outlook on your married AP?

 

It doesn't change my outlook, nor would it have at the time - because that's pretty much the picture I was being given by his friends, his family, his colleagues, neighbours, and others I met. He didn't speak about his M to me, but when he started IC he discussed it in depth with his counsellor. His counsellor helped him to see just how unhealthy the M was, and helped him to confront what in himself had allowed him to put up with that for so long.

[velvette]

Yep. The "great relationship" is the affair

 

Given your theory, I would be worried your H is just not aware of how unhappy he is yet in your "great relationship"

[cocorico]

If I am unhappy living in Belgium for instance and I decide to move to France, is it guaranteed I will be happier in France?

No, of course not. I may be just as unhappy in France, or I may be happier.

I moved to France because I was unhappy in Belgium full stop, what happens after that is in the lap of the Gods. France may just be a stopping off point.

 

If Belgium was making you unhappy, then leaving Belgium would at least give you the opportunity to be happy elsewhere - which continuing to live in Belgium would deny you.

[xxoo]

It's a circular argument. Is it individual dysfunction that led to marriage dysfunction? Or is it marriage dysfunction that led to individual dysfunction?

 

Either way, the marriage is clearly not healthy during the affair. Having an affair is a dysfunctional behavior. The question is which is the chicken and which is the egg.

[cocorico]

Given your theory, I would be worried your H is just not aware of how unhappy he is yet in your "great relationship"

 

You forget, he spent a long time in counselling learning get back in touch with his feelings, to validate them and to express them. He is a very different person in our R than he was in their M - as his family all remark.

 

If he did slip back into that mode then yes, I would be worried, too. That's why we both prioritise our R and make sure that the other - and ourself - are cool with where we are. We've seen how badly it can go wrong, and we care about each other too much to allow that to happen.

[cocorico]

I know that we have had discussions about this here before, so I thought that those of you who are APs would appreciate this bit of sharing. I was recently at a conference and in a room full of mental health professionals, nobody under a Masters level and all licensed and practicing - about 50 of them all together. There was a case study presented about a man who had an affair and lengthy discussion about possible treatment routes regarding him possibly telling his wife two years after the fact. Not a single person in the room thought he should tell his wife, although every single one agreed that he should not be in the marriage with her bc it was obviously dysfunctional if he had an affair - and that was the consensus among 50 professionals who are trained in human behavior and psychology.

 

 

Those who are APs, what are your thoughts on this? How does it feel to have that said by 50 experts in the mental health field? Does it change your outlook on your married AP? As a former BS and former AP, it wasn't surprising to me, but I did bring up that there are a subgroup of people who are convinced that people in "good" marriages have affairs and one of the experts responded with, "it's a defense mechanism for them to avoid admitting that their marriage wasn't actually good - or, they are just absolutely unaware of what good actually means".

 

Thoughts?

 

It is also consistent with this view, from this article

 

There's always a reason for beginning an affair, and it relates to some issue in your existing relationship. It's far better to face and resolve that first. You don't just "find" yourself having an affair, or "end up" in bed with someone. It's your choice, but it can be beautifully rationalized. So take a look at what's missing or unfulfilling in your relationship, why that is, and whether you can -- or even want to -- do something about it. It's preferable to try renewing your relationship, or end it with mutual respect.

[cocorico]

It is also consistent with this view, from this article

 

.... Which also offers this wisdom:

 

Some affairs are psychologically healthy. An affair can help leverage you out of a de-structive or deadened relationship that's beyond the point of renewal. The positive feelings of affirmation and restored vitality generated by an affair can activate the courage to leave a marriage when doing so is healthiest decision for both yourself and your partner. I've seen both men and women become psychologically healthier through an affair. It springboarded them into greater emotional honesty and mature action. Of course, you have to be honest with yourself, here, and not rationalize yourself into hav-ing the affair while postponing necessary action.

[xxoo]

It is also consistent with this view, from this article

 

Which also includes this:

 

An example is the person who's able to feel sexually alive and free only in a secret rela-tionship, hidden from the imagined hovering, inhibiting eye of one's parent -- which the person may experience unconsciously with his or her spouse.

 

That's personal dysfunction that can exist in otherwise healthy marriage.

[purplesorrow]

.... Which also offers this wisdom:

 

Would it have made a bit of difference to you if he said he was in a happy marriage? Wouldn't you have still gone after him, you said you wanted him. There are thousands and thousands of articles that state the opposite of what you have posted. It doesn't really matter, everyone's situation is different.

[autumnnight]

And in the end, the central issue is the same:

 

Does being in a bad situation eliminate the responsibility to live ethically and morally? And are lying, deceit, and betrayal ethical and moral behaviors according to psychologically healthy people with conscience?

[elaine567]

Which also includes this:

An example is the person who's able to feel sexually alive and free only in a secret rela-tionship, hidden from the imagined hovering, inhibiting eye of one's parent -- which the person may experience unconsciously with his or her spouse.

That's personal dysfunction that can exist in otherwise healthy marriage.

 

Yes, but can it truly be called a healthy marriage, if one spouse is able to feel sexually alive and free ONLY in a secret relationship.

[xxoo]

Yes, but can it truly be called a healthy marriage, if one spouse is able to feel sexually alive and free ONLY in a secret relationship.

 

That's the chicken and the egg. The source is not necessarily an unhealthy marriage, but personal dysfunction will keep someone from being satisfied in the most ideal situation.

[elaine567]

That's the chicken and the egg. The source is not necessarily an unhealthy marriage, but personal dysfunction will keep someone from being satisfied in the most ideal situation.

 

 

Ok, but surely the marriage cannot be considered healthy, just because one side is happy?

If a person is dissatisfied due to personal issues or due to a "bad" spouse, then the other being "happy" is immaterial, the marriage is still unhealthy.

 

I could beat my husband every night with a big stick, and I am very "happy".

[purplesorrow]

Ok, but surely the marriage cannot be considered healthy, just because one side is happy?

If a person is dissatisfied due to personal issues or due to a "bad" spouse, then the other being "happy" is immaterial, the marriage is still unhealthy.

 

I could beat my husband every night with a big stick, and I am very "happy".

 

So what would you say to a WS who says they were happy with their spouse and marriage? They cheated because of personal issues?

[xxoo]

Ok, but surely the marriage cannot be considered healthy, just because one side is happy?

If a person is dissatisfied due to personal issues or due to a "bad" spouse, then the other being "happy" is immaterial, the marriage is still unhealthy.

 

I could beat my husband every night with a big stick, and I am very "happy".

 

That's why I called it a circular argument. Of course the marriage isn't healthy if one partner is unhappy. But that doesn't mean that unhealthy marriage is the source, or that ending the marriage is the solution. Fixing the individual may be the solution.

[cocorico]

Would it have made a bit of difference to you if he said he was in a happy marriage?

 

He did (initially) think he was in a "happy" marriage. Even if no one else (aside from the xW, who liked it that way) thought so. I suppose, when you're a kid and your family and friends are all telling you you're too young to get seriously involved with an older, "complicated" (Married) woman, and are telling you she's damaged, she's crazy, she's bad news, etc, and you decide to go for it any way you can't afford to consider the possibility that you may he making a huuuuuuge mistake... And decades on, you can't admit that you've wasted most of your life with this mistake, so you smile and soldier on, telling yourself all relationships have problems, everyone just smiles and gets on with it, that a man's duty is to care for his family, (even if he didn't want kids,mane they'd both agreed not to have any, etc). So it takes some kind of rupture for you to realise the depth of your denial.

 

But once the scales drop from your eyes, then you see things as they truly are.

[purplesorrow]

If you can't find joy within yourself, you won't find it in anything else either. I believe a person with personal issues that is unhappy with THEMSELVES first, won't find it anywhere else, including their marriage or spouse. So no, they can't truly be happy UNTIL they correct their issues.

 

It kind of goes with that saying about loving yourself before you can love another person.

 

Just because you're not happy about a personal issue doesn't mean you can't be happy with other aspects of your life. That includes people and relationships. That one thing could just be your struggle. I wouldn't dare assume this about anyone. Who is happy with everything all the time?

[purplesorrow]

He did (initially) think he was in a "happy" marriage. Even if no one else (aside from the xW, who liked it that way) thought so. I suppose, when you're a kid and your family and friends are all telling you you're too young to get seriously involved with an older, "complicated" (Married) woman, and are telling you she's damaged, she's crazy, she's bad news, etc, and you decide to go for it any way you can't afford to consider the possibility that you may he making a huuuuuuge mistake... And decades on, you can't admit that you've wasted most of your life with this mistake, so you smile and soldier on, telling yourself all relationships have problems, everyone just smiles and gets on with it, that a man's duty is to care for his family, (even if he didn't want kids,mane they'd both agreed not to have any, etc). So it takes some kind of rupture for you to realise the depth of your denial.

 

But once the scales drop from your eyes, then you see things as they truly are.

 

Good on you for showing him the light. ?

[cocorico]

Good on you for showing him the light. ?

 

I didn't. His IC did.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

That's why I called it a circular argument. Of course the marriage isn't healthy if one partner is unhappy. But that doesn't mean that unhealthy marriage is the source, or that ending the marriage is the solution. Fixing the individual may be the solution.

 

I find it interesting that a bunch of professionals blame the "marriage" like it's some living, breathing, conscious being. Clearly the marriage was composed of a cheater and a BS.

[cocorico]

I find it interesting that a bunch of professionals blame the "marriage" like it's some living, breathing, conscious being.

 

Which is no different to "the marriage" (rather than either spouse) being "the client" in MC.

[cocorico]

So what would you say to a WS who says they were happy with their spouse and marriage? They cheated because of personal issues?

 

I'd send them to a decent counsellor to help them understand what a healthy R **really** was.

[GoBlue]

As a former BS and former AP, it wasn't surprising to me, but I did bring up that there are a subgroup of people who are convinced that people in "good" marriages have affairs and one of the experts responded with, "it's a defense mechanism for them to avoid admitting that their marriage wasn't actually good - or, they are just absolutely unaware of what good actually means".

 

My immediate thought is that the "expert" who said the above quote is either living in denial or truly doesn't see the world as it really is. Human beings can do the dumbest things to mess up the "good things" that we have in our lives. We do it all the time and it's because we have something called a "fallen nature" (call it "self-centered" if that's more palpable for you). Not everything we do is a "defense mechanism" designed to ignore an underlying issue. The most troubling part of this whole report is that 50 "behavioral experts" all agree that the wife should not be told two years later. Really? Wouldn't the admission actually be the first step in fixing the marriage that they say is actually "broken" because the guy had an affair in the first place. Am I the only guy who actually understands what guys are like???

 

This is the result of a philosophy that denies the spiritual aspect of what it means to be human. I personally believe that there is a God who Created all things and who has a will for my life. He calls me into a relationship with Himself and asks me to live a lifestyle that reflects His nature in my world. Even if you don't believe that, however, almost every single person alive in the world today has an innate sense of right and wrong (those who don't are called "Psychopaths" which is a recognized behavioral malady), and even though we have this sense of right and wrong we continually do things opposed to what we know (or feel) to be right. Alas - we call that the human nature.

 

My favorite part of that experts quote is this, "or, they are just absolutely unaware of what good actually means." I laugh out loud! You know what we need? An "expert" in human behavior to tell us what good actually means! A person who probably believes in relativism and thinks that good is only determined by the person themselves. In other words, if I want to have an affair than it's good for me and how dare you tell me that it's not. Who cares how many people it impacts because the only person who matters is me! Ohhhh, I could go on, but I relent. I am a man who destroyed every good thing he ever had because he ignored the warnings of his spiritual side. I hope to help as many people as possible avoid what I have experienced. Thank God for His mercy!