Is there a double standard in terms of a man's salary & a woman's salary in dating?

[xxoo]

The above is a very legitimate gripe. A lot of times the people who gripe about their partner not making enough are also more committed to THEIR jobs than they are their partner. These two traits often go together.

 

EXACTLY!

 

This is why it is often simply an incompatibility for people of different professional levels/earning levels to be together. It isn't so much a judgment, but rather recognition that they need a certain type of person who shares their perspective.

 

OTOH, some people are looking for their complement, not a mirror. It really depends on the person. But there is no reason to take it personally. Taking it personally points to an insecurity, thinking "There is something wrong with me" rather than thinking "this is just not the right person for me".

[NJ123]

 

The above is a very legitimate gripe. A lot of times the people who gripe about their partner not making enough are also more committed to THEIR jobs than they are their partner. These two traits often go together.

 

lol you agreed with me on something!

[Woggle]

I have no problem with with wanting to travel and live it up because I do that too. When I was single I dated a few women who thought I should become some snobby person living in a posh community and no longer hanging around with my old friends and visiting my old neighborhood now that I am doing very well. That isn't happening. I could be a billionaire and still be down to earth and any woman I am with has to accept that. I couldn't care one bit about social class.

[Got it]

I wouldn't care if the woman made more than me just as long as she doesn't resent me for not making as much as her. Also, if she has a very demanding career, I'd have no problen with it as long as she has time to spend with me. I wouldn't want someone to have the mentality of career first, & everything else is second.

 

Okay. That is you. Said said men don't care and you can't/aren't speaking for all men. Many do care.

 

And I am sorry, but when someone is an executive there is a lot of, while many not career first, but far more time consuming than most people can understand. It is a 24/7 availability that one is never fully disconnected at any time. I am in a business that is open almost 365 days a year so things happen at any point. And this is what one signs on for at this level.

 

Men are far more used to this level of work for themselves but I believe struggle understanding it in their female counterparts.

 

For example, my husband and I know that it is an exercise in futility to try and vacation on a Monday or Tuesday because business is crazier those days. Last time we did, I worked 6 hours on that Monday and a couple hours that Tuesday.

 

And yes time is spent together but at any point I know my husband will get a call that he has to take, an email will come out that he/myself would have to jump on, and that can sidetrack an evening/weekend.

 

And I will have things that come up that I will have to jump on a plane the next day or two for a trip that wasn't planned but business blew up. Or my husband will have a week long trip that he has to do.

 

We balance as best as we can but there are times it is very much career first and we support the one through it. There is a fluid give and take that has to happen. Someone that wants me home by 5, available fully on the weekend, and work and everything with it tied to the office, just doesn't work. Not all jobs are like that and some love it and some don't. I knew I had to find someone that was.

 

And, personally, we need a home wife to take care of everything else! lol. We have joked about that! A lot has to be outsourced because time is limited.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Got it

[NJ123]

Okay. That is you. Said said men don't care and you can't/aren't speaking for all men. Many do care.

 

And I am sorry, but when someone is an executive there is a lot of, while many not career first, but far more time consuming than most people can understand. It is a 24/7 availability that one is never fully disconnected at any time. I am in a business that is open almost 365 days a year so things happen at any point. And this is what one signs on for at this level.

 

Men are far more used to this level of work for themselves but I believe struggle understanding it in their female counterparts.

 

For example, my husband and I know that it is an exercise in futility to try and vacation on a Monday or Tuesday because business is crazier those days. Last time we did, I worked 6 hours on that Monday and a couple hours that Tuesday.

 

And yes time is spent together but at any point I know my husband will get a call that he has to take, an email will come out that he/myself would have to jump on, and that can sidetrack an evening/weekend.

 

And I will have things that come up that I will have to jump on a plane the next day or two for a trip that wasn't planned but business blew up. Or my husband will have a week long trip that he has to do.

 

We balance as best as we can but there are times it is very much career first and we support the one through it. There is a fluid give and take that has to happen. Someone that wants me home by 5, available fully on the weekend, and work and everything with it tied to the office, just doesn't work. Not all jobs are like that and some love it and some don't. I knew I had to find someone that was.

 

And, personally, we need a home wife to take care of everything else! lol. We have joked about that! A lot has to be outsourced because time is limited.

 

Yeah, I understand. I'd just want to know for sure they aren't getting distant with me or anything due to the heavy workload. I hear how relationships fail due to one of them being involved with work so much. And they just can't take it anymore due to feeling like their almost single & not in a relationship/marriage.

[Got it]

Yeah, I understand. I'd just want to know for sure they aren't getting distant with me or anything due to the heavy workload. I hear how relationships fail due to one of them being involved with work so much. And they just can't take it anymore due to feeling like their almost single & not in a relationship/marriage.

 

It's like most things in a marriage, a good level of communication from both parties, flexibility to support, boundaries to know when to stop bending, a desire to make the other person happy, an equal desire to prioritize one's self as well, a sense of humor, ability to approach issues and the ability to keep your mouth shut.

 

It is a fluid back and forth that big picture should equal out so both parties are happy and both parties feel appreciated.

 

And there is little you are going to know "for sure". Life is a gamble, that is the beauty of it.

[autumnnight]

It's like most things in a marriage, a good level of communication from both parties, flexibility to support, boundaries to know when to stop bending, a desire to make the other person happy, an equal desire to prioritize one's self as well, a sense of humor, ability to approach issues and the ability to keep your mouth shut.

 

It is a fluid back and forth that big picture should equal out so both parties are happy and both parties feel appreciated.

 

And there is little you are going to know "for sure". Life is a gamble, that is the beauty of it.

 

This.

 

Relationships - real ones - are ebb and flow, not all or nothing. Even in the best ones there are down days...even down weeks or months when life is tough. Some days he is up and she is down. Some days the reverse. You have to connect often and talk regularly. You have to give each other a break and sometimes a kick in the pants. And sometimes you need to take a long walk so you don't make use of a frying pan lol.

 

There are no guarantees. It's day in and day out and making it work. And sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes it does. And just because Judy and Suzy were "this way," doesn't mean Betty will be.

[elaine567]

Everyone has to look for people as partners that meet their own criteria both now and in the future.

If you want a wife to be a SAHM eventually, then no point in choosing as a partner some career driven ambitious woman who loves to travel the globe, and hoping she will change overnight into someone whose idea of excitement is a day at the zoo with the kids.

Similarly if you want a man who is going to be at home and be a hands on father, then someone whose idea of fun is whitewater rafting and whose work entails flying round the world, is just not going to be there happily weeding the garden and painting the shed every week end.

 

As Got it says there is no "for sure", but filtering out those that obviously are never going to be a long term match, will definitely help

[Macattack]

You realize you're the only one who's mentioned a "strong independent woman" right?

 

Nevertheless, why wouldn't she? Many people who have worked their asses off to be "strong and independent" don't look kindly on being saddled with excess financial burden. Depending on how low the income, one could be living paycheck to paycheck or even on the kindness of friends. Unless they're in a similar situation, few people will readily take that on.

 

On another (semi-unrelated) note, I'm quite tired of men who claim that their sex generally doesn't care about a woman's income or if she even has one at all and in fact posit that such a thing should be the norm. Frankly, that's nothing to brag about and it's actually quite a ridiculous - not to mention dangerous - mentality to have for the average, decidedly middle class man.

Tell that to the post who called men shallow for mentioning her job and she should get a full time job instead of part time job.

[Macattack]

What women do do more is post on fb. You are right about that.

 

(as a note my husband posts vacations pics more than me. When I'm on vacation I couldn't be bothered... when I'm home, well with all the unpacking and laundry I don't have time to post pics. And then it is just old news after that)

 

also I didn't say hate women. I said "hate on". by having all these judgements and prejudices and post after post.

 

It's not hate, you are confused. Men are pissed off the double standards. Trust me on that one, many men are pissed off. That's why many men in Japan don't even date women. About 70% of men in japan don't even approach a woman for a date. Also money is only the tiny portion of things men dislike.

 

With the picture thing is women want more and more attention. Their pics tend to be more sexual.

[SearchingForMyself]

As I said, yes. Plumbers don't make little. Not in my country at least. My boyfriend's best friend was in refrigeration before, making good money. He's unemployed at the moment but he's trying to get a job in plumbing now. Academia isn't for everyone, I'm aware. But people in trades also make good money- I know quite a few in trades who make good money.

 

And why is it so unreasonable for me to want an equal? I'm not wanting more. If I got to where I'm at, what is stopping others from doing the same? I did everything myself, nobody helped me, nobody paid for me, I got to the point I'm at all by myself with only hard work. So why should I accept less? Dating isn't charity work, sorry.

 

Ambition and hard work matter a lot. Without it I wouldn't be in the position I am now. I'm dating a man who is equally hard working and as a result, equally successful- a point to which he got by himself, especially since his family is dirt poor.

 

I think you and some others on here expect women to give every man a chance, and then you whine when that doesn't happen. You blame everything on feminism now because women are now able to work, make the same money as you and have higher standards as to what they want from a man. I think that is the double standard here and it is hella annoying.

 

I dont see the point in arguing, we can argue this till we are blue in the face but it doesnt change this fact:

 

the majority of women, no matter what status they are in, will only date those they perceive better looking or beneficial to their lifestyle.

 

Love is nice, but it doesnt pay the bills, and if you men want sex and intimacy you better cough up the dough or get a killer body.

 

sorry, but you guys cant overthrow years of tradition on logic alone, and while there are exceptions, the truth is most women arent going to want to date you if youre making less than them.

 

This is exactly why I removed myself from the dating game. Because im 24, short, not in great shape, african american, and poor

 

the women I have available to me are extremely messed up. I want one of these independent girls I hear so much about

 

But Im not in their league...

 

so after 2 years of bad online dating, I finally quit the scene and am now focusing solely on me and my recovery.

 

Im gonna give myself 10 years before I start dating seriously. By then I should be somewhat well established.

 

women arent going to date you if you arent their equal or better looking than them, no amount of liberal logic will change that fact.

 

so its either get established or get buff. Funny thing is, by the time youre working on yourself, youll not want to chase women anyway, theyll be chasing YOU...

 

a man loses money chasing women. a man never loses women chasing money...

 

--searchingformyself

[SearchingForMyself]

besides, if a woman leaves you, doesnt hurt to have a nice bugatti to sleep in, or at least your own place.

 

independence should be an individual thing and not reliant on the wiles of just sex.

 

sex is great but dont let it control 24 hours of your day.

[lino]

Is the world round?

 

Here is an easy way to see how things are...

 

Think of all the couples you know who are married or in serious relationships. Now think out of those, how many of them have the man earning less than the woman.

 

You'll not need more than one hand to count them.

 

How many female doctors/lawyers/financial analysts/dentists do you know who are married to or seriously involved with male hairdressers/bar tenders/Cafe workers/retail workers.

Next to none right? Now swap the genders and count how many you know... I'll bet a great deal more.

 

Why is this?!?

 

It is so because even in this time of supposed equality, men are still seen as (and expected to be) the providers.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I don't think there's much of an double standard.

 

I'd have no problem dating a woman who made more than me.

 

My manhood is not reflected in my salary. I'm more than just my money.

 

Mate, very few men will have problems with their girl earning more than them... I know I wouldn't!

But good luck finding a woman who wants a man that earns less than her. They are rare gems when you find them.

 

Of course you are more than just your money! Everyone is, both men and women. However there are a lot of women who see their partner as primarily a cash supplier and everything else (You know, the important parts!) come after that.

Not all women but I'd say at least 60-70% of them.

 

The blokes who feel 'less of a man' because they earn less than their partner are usually the one's that will be the most arrogant and chauvinistic types you'll ever meet. And guess what? Women SWARM on those types!

[autumnnight]

Women SWARM on those types!

 

Not this woman. In fact, that is the whole reason a select number of men are not happy with me right now. Because I KNOW what they are and I DON'T appreciate it.

[Got it]

Is the world round?

 

Here is an easy way to see how things are...

 

Think of all the couples you know who are married or in serious relationships. Now think out of those, how many of them have the man earning less than the woman.

 

You'll not need more than one hand to count them.

 

How many female doctors/lawyers/financial analysts/dentists do you know who are married to or seriously involved with male hairdressers/bar tenders/Cafe workers/retail workers.

Next to none right? Now swap the genders and count how many you know... I'll bet a great deal more.

 

Why is this?!?

 

It is so because even in this time of supposed equality, men are still seen as (and expected to be) the providers.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

 

Mate, very few men will have problems with their girl earning more than them... I know I wouldn't!

But good luck finding a woman who wants a man that earns less than her. They are rare gems when you find them.

 

Of course you are more than just your money! Everyone is, both men and women. However there are a lot of women who see their partner as primarily a cash supplier and everything else (You know, the important parts!) come after that.

Not all women but I'd say at least 60-70% of them.

 

The blokes who feel 'less of a man' because they earn less than their partner are usually the one's that will be the most arrogant and chauvinistic types you'll ever meet. And guess what? Women SWARM on those types!

 

You recognize, right, that the wage inequality as well as child care inequality still greatly impacts women, right? There are many girls (who grow up to be women) who are taught to not pursue a career. And there are MANY men who do not want a woman to have a career, there are many men who WANT to be the provider.

 

Very few men are going to gross what I make. My husband NOW happens to, though that hasn't been the case. I know that in dating others most men don't come close. If you think this is welcomed with open arms you are delusional.

 

The idea sounds good but the reality, it isn't understood, it impacts men's self esteem the work level tied to earning that income is definitely not understood.

 

I want to ask them men here, if you marry, who is going to raise the kids? If you have pets, and you both have late day meetings, who is in charge of setting up care? If a relocation is required for your spouse's job, how open are you to relocating/relocating multiple times? How comfortable are you with a spouse that travels 1,2, 5 days a week? If there are doctor's appointments, pick ups, homework, who is in charge of getting these accomplished? If your spouses' career requires a lot of focus are you willing to step back in yours to cover the home front? To be a stay at home parent to cover everything? Are you? Are you ready and able to swing your job and the above? Because that is what a lot of women do.

[carhill]

How many female doctors/lawyers/financial analysts/dentists do you know who are married to or seriously involved with male hairdressers/bar tenders/Cafe workers/retail workers.

Next to none right? Now swap the genders and count how many you know... I'll bet a great deal more.

 

Why is this?!?

 

Women are smart and, don't kid yourself, if every man could get with a woman who made more than he did, with all else being equal, he'd piss all over himself and love every second of it. Sound wrong? Pay careful attention to 'all else being equal', meaning the other aspects of their interactions and relationship. That's the harbinger of a success or failure.

 

That stated, the world will end before it happens with any regularity so no sense in flagellating oneself over things one has no control over, exceptions notwithstanding.

 

In my own M, once I started caregiving and my income decreased to a level below that of my exW, her respect for me decreased as well. Respect turning upon dollars was the failure point. When she opined after our D that she would have done things differently, I don't know if that was on her mind or not. Glad to not know. No worries about double standards, ever again. Freedom!

[autumnnight]

In my own M, once I started caregiving and my income decreased to a level below that of my exW, her respect for me decreased as well.

I know it's none of my business, but this stinks. Here is someone you built a life with, and because you are so diligently caring for someone you don't make as much money she stops respecting you???

 

I'm sorry, she was....stupid.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I agree that there is a double standard but the thing is, society is always changing, it is in flux all the time, we are in a time now where expectations of gender roles are very fluid!! If you don't like the status quo don't be a part of it, do your own life differently!!! My sister is a business owner with an MBA and her husband is a truck driver, they are a happy couple because they didn't care about the double standard and did their own thing!!

[carhill]

I know it's none of my business, but this stinks. Here is someone you built a life with, and because you are so diligently caring for someone you don't make as much money she stops respecting you???

 

I'm sorry, she was....stupid.

While I might have felt that way at the time, now I see things clearer. The confluence of our demographic and her life experience made this a perfect storm of double standards. Men are expected to be powerful and potent, regardless of what life throws at us. Unfortunately, in my case, obviating the customary, there was no female nurturer to do the caregiving so I did what I thought a man should do, do it myself, at a cost. In retrospect, I made a free choice to sacrifice a marriage, the one I had bargained for, to take care of a terminal parent. Bad choice? Maybe.

 

I only mention this because of seeing other men in my demographic thrust into this position (we're getting old!) and viewing their spouse's frustration and disdain personally. However, these men are wealthier than I was or am so their economic power keeps the spouse in the milieu. That's simply how it works. Stupid? IDK. It is what it is.

[Els]

I want to ask them men here, if you marry, who is going to raise the kids? If you have pets, and you both have late day meetings, who is in charge of setting up care? If a relocation is required for your spouse's job, how open are you to relocating/relocating multiple times? How comfortable are you with a spouse that travels 1,2, 5 days a week? If there are doctor's appointments, pick ups, homework, who is in charge of getting these accomplished? If your spouses' career requires a lot of focus are you willing to step back in yours to cover the home front? To be a stay at home parent to cover everything? Are you? Are you ready and able to swing your job and the above? Because that is what a lot of women do.

 

Exactly.

 

The majority (not all, but this thread is so full of generalizations I see no problems with adding another) of men saying that they would be happy being the supporter have likely not fully experienced or thought the whole thing through. I do know a few couples where the woman was the sole/primary breadwinner and the man was working a part-time job or unemployed at some stage. In most cases the issue turned out to be that the women ended up being the primary breadwinner while STILL doing a large chunk of the housework or childcare, because the men did not take it seriously. They also found it 'emasculating' to have to relocate based on their partner's job, to have their partner make the big financial decisions, or to be the only man in their children's playgroup.

 

There is just one couple that I know that worked out pretty well - the wife is a doctor and the husband worked part-time. He was exceptionally nurturing and took great pride in his househusband skills, though. He had no problems brushing away gender stereotypes, and kept a clean house and was a great cook. He quit his job multiple times to follow her to wherever she needed to relocate to, often at short notice. She did not change her name when they married because of the professional consequences it would have.

 

If there are any men like him who TRULY are capable of playing the supportive role, then they probably have a good chance of finding a woman like his wife.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Elswyth