MissBee Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I don't really see how presenting someone with a spreadsheet is passive-aggressive. It seems pretty direct to me. And I found this event more than a little bit humorous. Seriously, you'd have to have like, no sense of humor not to appreciate the work he put into it and his general approach. For him it wasn't a joke though, that's why it's not humorous but troubling. I'm sure when my neurotic former friend handed his roommate a 20 page document of date and times when he wronged him, he also didn't find it comical, except in a tragic way, because the people doing this are dead serious about it. Human beings in romantic relationships do not communicate via a spreadsheet, you're not at work turning in an assignment to your boss. That's why it is passive aggressive. Turning in a spreadsheet for a task at your job is normal and direct and what you do...turning in a spreadsheet to your spouse makes you seem like you have issues and instead of sitting them down you hand them some dry document of dates and times...it's neurotic on your part. Can you imagine if everyone started doing that? Turning in spreadsheets to their dates, family, friends, neighbors about how many times, dates etc they did or did not do something? The energy and effort put into it seems like you actually gain some pleasure out of documenting this more than resolving the issue itself. The energy channeled into a spreadsheet could have been used to have a direct conversation in the moment and not months later with your spreadsheet in tow as though you're going to court or a board meeting. This is an interpersonal relationship not some type of impersonal work assignment! Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Here is a great example of an incident being the man's "fault." http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/sexual-reproductive-health-practices/502327-he-feels-small-these-days What's really great are the replies to my post. Always trying to think of a way to blame the man. Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Here is a great example of an incident being the man's "fault." http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/sexual-reproductive-health-practices/502327-he-feels-small-these-days What's really great are the replies to my post. Always trying to think of a way to blame the man. I saw only two responses to your two posts and only one took you to task, for being insensitive. Ironically, the thread was about a woman trying to problem-solve, not “blame the man.” You flat out said, “It’s all you” despite the fact that you simply can’t know- i.e. blaming. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
TheGuard13 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 For him it wasn't a joke though, that's why it's not humorous but troubling. And we know this how? Something can be both serious and have some humor to it at the same time. Human beings in romantic relationships do not communicate via a spreadsheet, you're not at work turning in an assignment to your boss. That's kind of narrowminded, isn't it? Who says human beings can't communicate any way they please? Where do we draw the line? That's why it is passive aggressive. Turning in a spreadsheet for a task at your job is normal and direct and what you do...turning in a spreadsheet to your spouse makes you seem like you have issues and instead of sitting them down you hand them some dry document of dates and times...it's neurotic on your part. So it's neurotic and a little bit anal. So what? The guy clearly has issues already...with his sex life and his relationship. I don't see how fairly clearly and definitively communicating the issue to your partner is "passive-aggressive". Sorry, I just don't. This isn't a guy dancing around the issue here. He's presenting them as clearly and concisely as it may be possible to do so. He's doing so assertively and certainly not passively. He's not exactly avoiding a confrontation with his actions, either. You might as well call writing someone a letter directly speaking to a point passive-aggressive. I don't think this qualifies. Can you imagine if everyone started doing that? Turning in spreadsheets to their dates, family, friends, neighbors about how many times, dates etc they did or did not do something? No, I can't imagine that, because most people are too lazy and or/not creative enough to do something like this. Question: How is putting one's grievances in a spreadsheet really all that different than say, bringing up past wrongs or issues in an argument or a conversation? The energy and effort put into it seems like you actually gain some pleasure out of documenting this more than resolving the issue itself. Assumption. I have a hard time seeing this man enjoying a spreadsheet of his wife's rejections more than say, actually having sex or resolving said issues. But we don't know, and shouldn't assume one way or the other. The energy channeled into a spreadsheet could have been used to have a direct conversation in the moment and not months later with your spreadsheet in tow as though you're going to court or a board meeting. That's true. How bout that? He could have done something else. He chose not to. What's your point? This is an interpersonal relationship not some type of impersonal work assignment! Again, kind of a narrow definition of how relationships can work. Why does everyone have to communicate a certain way? Link to post Share on other sites
TheGuard13 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Honestly, I think people in general are lousy at accepting blame. Its one of our less savory traits. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I saw only two responses to your two posts and only one took you to task, for being insensitive. Ironically, the thread was about a woman trying to problem-solve, not “blame the man.” You flat out said, “It’s all you” despite the fact that you simply can’t know- i.e. blaming. Not to mention how disrespectful his 'suggestion' was. FFS. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MrNate 2.0 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ok, for one I'm not a man. I am 100% female. Not even a guy at birth that had a sex change... After getting slammed (again) for my views about females and males in relationships, I just wanted to post this link: Pouty Husband Sends Wife Spreadsheet Detailing Sex-Life Dissatisfaction My message is that, it amazes me how men seem to be the "pouty" ones. IMO, the roles in relationships and how men are treated in general has flipped so much where a woman can never, ever, do wrong in a RL and men are just supposed to sit there and take it. Worst, as you can see, this article I posted is from a "male", so now males have even bought into the story that they need to be "punished" for being a male. No wonder most guys won't marry now a days Men are the pouty ones? This post looks like one big pout session to me. You even added a thumbs down to the title. Here's a fact: Women can be, and are usually just as big of a let down as men. That is a simple fact of life. Go get some air. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Not to mention how disrespectful his 'suggestion' was. FFS. And suggesting the man wear a penis extender is perfectly fine? That's exactly the double standard this thread is about. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 And suggesting the man wear a penis extender is perfectly fine? That's exactly the double standard this thread is about. Who in this thread said the penis spreadsheet was fine again...? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CrystalCastles Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Here is a great example of an incident being the man's "fault." http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/sexual-reproductive-health-practices/502327-he-feels-small-these-days What's really great are the replies to my post. Always trying to think of a way to blame the man. I read that thread. I don't see anyone blaming the man. The woman had a concern. She obviously doesn't want her husband to "feel small" which it seems like those are his words. Its not entirely her fault. She's even trying to help the situation by doing Kegel exercises. So I'm not sure where "everyone is blaming the man". From where I am standing, it seems like nobody is really blaming anyone. I don't think this is a situation you can really "blame" anyone for. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Who in this thread said the penis spreadsheet was fine again...? LOL what's a penis spreadsheet? Is that where a woman makes a spreadsheet about his erection firmness and how long he lasts Link to post Share on other sites
HazyCosmicJive Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 This is pretty typical in today's culture. Males are portrayed as the villains (especially white males) and everyone else is the victim. It's annoying, but I just roll my eyes and move on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Also, there is a recent thread here by a guy whose partner stonewalled him and broke up with him despite his valiant attempts to communicate about their nonexisting sex life. The majority of posters who responded to him were women, and they all (including myself) told him that he was right and she was wrong, and that he should kick her out so he can move on. So, I'm not really seeing this huge double standard that all the women of LS purportedly engage in. I think it exists where you really look for it - but even where it does, there is a comparable or even greater number of male posters engaging in the same nonsense. LOL what's a penis spreadsheet? Is that where a woman makes a spreadsheet about his erection firmness and how long he lasts Oh, I thought that was what you were talking about - someone mentioned a woman giving her lover a penis length spreadsheet or something to insult him, earlier in this thread. Clearly I haven't been keeping up. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 And suggesting the man wear a penis extender is perfectly fine? That's exactly the double standard this thread is about. I did not suggest the man should wear a penis extender either....and unless I missed it, neither did anyone else. Beside I am making an effort to avoid gender related slur like these. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 And suggesting the man wear a penis extender is perfectly fine? That's exactly the double standard this thread is about. What double standard? People also suggested kegels, toys, creams, and assorted other suggestions for her to try. That was actually a nice example of a problem solving thread that considered all sides of the issue...if only people wouldn't try to make it a soapbox. Badly done. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 My husband [M26] sent me [F26] an immature, inflammatory email as I was driving to the airport for a 10-day work trip. Now he has cut contact. : relationships Our sex life HAS tapered in the last few months, but isn't that allowed? We are adults leading busy, stressful lives. I cook for him, I do his laundry, I keep our house clean and tidy. It's not like our sex life was going to be this way FOREVER, it was a temporary slow-down due to extenuating circumstances. Plus her workload has doubled due to colleagues being laid off. The focus on insisting "she's the one in the wrong" really is a bit of an eye-opener for me. Here's a woman who, if what she's saying is correct, is a hard worker. She wasn't one of the people laid off at her work, so she's presumably one of the more valued employees there. She's working hard to get back into shape. When she's home, she works hard to keep the house in good shape, plus she takes on all the usual household chores - apparently without his assistance. I think she should have said to him "We need to split the household chores a bit, so that I'm less tired at the end of the day - and then hopefully we'll start having a more active sex life again." Assuming that taking on his fair share of responsibilities wouldn't then result in him being too tired for sex. I wonder like hell about somebody who sees his partner knocking herself out in these different ways and can't think of a more appropriate response than to sit down and start compiling a spreadsheet documenting times she presented excuses not to have sex. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) My husband [M26] sent me [F26] an immature, inflammatory email as I was driving to the airport for a 10-day work trip. Now he has cut contact. : relationships Plus her workload has doubled due to colleagues being laid off. The focus on insisting "she's the one in the wrong" really is a bit of an eye-opener for me. Here's a woman who, if what she's saying is correct, is a hard worker. She wasn't one of the people laid off at her work, so she's presumably one of the more valued employees there. She's working hard to get back into shape. When she's home, she works hard to keep the house in good shape, plus she takes on all the usual household chores - apparently without his assistance. I think she should have said to him "We need to split the household chores a bit, so that I'm less tired at the end of the day - and then hopefully we'll start having a more active sex life again." Assuming that taking on his fair share of responsibilities wouldn't then result in him being too tired for sex. I wonder like hell about somebody who sees his partner knocking herself out in these different ways and can't think of a more appropriate response than to sit down and start compiling a spreadsheet documenting times she presented excuses not to have sex. What she clearly should have done was make a spreadsheet documenting the unequal division of household duties, and then dumped him with it over email. No, but that would make her a bxtch. Hm. Edited November 24, 2014 by serial muse 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 What she clearly should have done was make a spreadsheet documenting the unequal division of household duties, and then dumped him with it over email. No, but that would make her a bxtch. Hm. I'd be interested to see what would happen if this had been presented in a roles-reversed way, where a wife emailed her husband the same spreadsheet complaining "You made excuses not to have sex all but three times over a six week period" and then the husband explained to people that he'd been tired a lot because they'd been working hard on renovations, his workload had doubled, he'd been cooking, cleaning and laundering for his wife and working hard to get in shape at the gym. I think he'd be berated by some people, but I'm pretty sure it would be for being a doormat rather than for being a selfish, uncaring husband who was failing to meet his wife's sexual needs. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
DrReplyInRhymes Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Found this on the same exact issue, be sure to read it with a tissue! My take on the spreadsheet husband : TheRedPill 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Found this on the same exact issue, be sure to read it with a tissue! My take on the spreadsheet husband : TheRedPill First of all, thanks for the rhyme I knew it was only a matter of time Before amorous Jack and his frigid wife Jill Gave rise to discussion about the red pill Of course the solution is perfectly clear The man is a beta and this he should hear If his life he'd just live like a film that is porn She'd drop all the housework and polish his horn 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Does anyone get tired of the sweeping generalizations about gender and not take ownership for each person's responsibilities? Good lord, the violins playing! Do people see themselves as just their gender or do you view yourself as an individual? This has boggled my mind, the gender slurs as if that is the epitome of who we are, why we think, and what we do. I have never felt purely defined by my gender. I am defined by my actions, my accomplishments, my thinking style, and my mistakes. That is who I am, not this other ridiculousness. And per the spreadsheet, whatever floats your boat but it is not an approach that is going to open the door for communication in the manner it was done. I am all about analysis data but it should be a tool for productive face to face communication. If a relationship gets to the point where you are in a me vs you analysis then you have lost the war. If the relationship always had this component than it was destined to fail. I highly recommend "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" by Dr. John Gottman. Fantastic read on conflict resolution tactics. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Got It, sweeping generalizations are the product of lazy jaded minds IMO It is absolutely NOT always the man's fault. And it is not always the woman's fault. All men are not players out for only one thing. And all women aren't just nagging shrew's wanting a meal ticket. People who think this are either not very smart or do not have the emotional tools to get over and through the pain every human goes through at some point. As far as this man with the spreadsheet goes. I bet you that the spreadsheet was not his first response to constant rejection. I bet it was his desperate last ditch effort to get her to actually give a damn about how her selfishness hurt him. If you don't want to have sex, don't get married. having sex is part of being married. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Two words. Wife Swap. http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-07/23/10/enhanced/webdr04/enhanced-buzz-24305-1406125188-16.jpg 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I still say that was his way of dealing with it. We all deal with things differently. That doesn't make it okay, she needs to dump that guy! Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Regardless of all that, men would still all be seeking marriage today but for one thing,. Anyway, it's just false that "most" men won't marry, everybody I know is getting married! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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