I love him but I don't know what he's thinking anymore

[AlwaysPuzzled]

SHOULD I say something else to save face??? Or just let it sit there ignored?

 

My message was: Hey there. Just wanted to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving. Are you having a big family dinner tomorrow?

[elaine567]

should i say something else to save face??? Or just let it sit there ignored?

 

My message was: Hey there. Just wanted to wish you a happy thanksgiving. Are you having a big family dinner tomorrow?...I'm even contemplating sending a follow-up message just to save face -- about how I've been addressing my anxieties, and realizing that I pushed things and had too-high expectations, and that I've relaxed and thought that we could just be friends and maybe hang out occasionally, but that there was no pressure intended. Or a somewhat snarky message saying okay, just wanted to try to be friends, but I'll delete you from facebook now so as not to bother you.

 

Leave it!!

 

Do not post anything else, please.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Leave it!!

 

Do not post anything else, please.

 

It was a private message, not a post... Just to be clear.

 

I was typing out a follow-up, wasn't sure whether to send it, and got this far:

 

I guess I seem wishy-washy, huh. I just kind of came to terms with why things happened the way they did, and that it was mainly a result of my own unrealistic expectations given the circumstances. So I just thought that I would be friendly.

 

You still think no?!?

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Absolutely not.

[elaine567]

Definitely NOT.

If you really want to save face, then the most dignified thing you can do is not to say anything.

He has not replied. It takes 2 secs to reply. He has not replied because he doesn't want to.

You wittering on, will do you no good whatsoever, and you will just annoy him.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Okay. Thanks guys. I won't say anything else. I wish I had asked here before sending the damn thing in the first place. It just impulsively felt like a really good idea. I really thought he would answer, just to be polite if nothing else. I thought it would be a good way to keep a connection, which seems necessary for any future reconciliation (which still seems possible in my warped thoughts at times). Now this is going to ruin my night, and partially ruin my day tomorrow as well, because I feel sooooo pathetic for having sent it. And so powerless, knowing he's going to ignore it.

 

If he has still ignored it by tomorrow afternoon (sometimes he'll read/reply in the mornings), should I delete him off facebook? Block him or no? Or leave that connection just in case things could work out in the future?

 

ETA:

Maybe it was just too soon to try to reach out. Maybe he's tired of this and needs a break. Maybe I should leave the facebook connection for that reason.

[elaine567]

Do nothing, there is no need for blocks or anything else dramatic.

Leave him be, if he really wants you, he will come to you, if not, then you know where you stand.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Do nothing, there is no need for blocks or anything else dramatic.

Leave him be, if he really wants you, he will come to you, if not, then you know where you stand.

 

Okay, thanks Blocking would be dramatic. Unfriending would be as well, I guess - it would just show that I can't handle his not responding. If I can just manage to not react to this, I guess that shows strength - which I need to feel in order to regain my dignity. And I guess there's no need to close the door entirely, just in case. If he wants to do that by unfriending me himself, he can do that. Why make it easy on him, right.

 

I'm feeling really down on myself right now. I'd give anything to take that text back. I can only imagine what he thinks of me right now for sending it. I was doing so well!!! [outwardly I was doing well, I mean - for all he knew, I had come to my senses and moved on]

 

How bad do you guys think that text was??? Was it as pathetic as I'm imagining it to be in his eyes?

[elaine567]

I just sent him a friendly Happy Thanksgiving message and asked if his family is doing a big thing tomorrow.

 

Nothing wrong with Happy Thanksgiving! but I wouldn't have asked about his family as that is basically asking him what is he doing and where will he be and that may be seen as prying and potentially stalking.

 

You have to get it into your head that this man who is an alcoholic (let us never forget that fact), a man who apparently doesn't have the best or warmest personality in the world, and he also seems to be ignoring you, is NOT the man of your dreams.

He is a total nightmare if truth be told.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Nothing wrong with Happy Thanksgiving! but I wouldn't have asked about his family as that is basically asking him what is he doing and where will he be and that may be seen as prying and potentially stalking.

 

I guess I shouldn't beat myself up over the text thing then. It only makes me feel worse. I think I definitely would feel better if I hadn't asked the question at the end. I thought maybe it would open things up for a better text convo - I really don't care where he's eating or what his family is doing, I just wanted to send something with an open-ended question. But in hindsight, you are totally right about how it might come across. Ugh. I guess I just feel overall that since he didn't reply, it must have annoyed him that I sent anything at all.

 

You have to get it into your head that this man who is an alcoholic (let us never forget that fact), a man who apparently doesn't have the best or warmest personality in the world, and he also seems to be ignoring you, is NOT the man of your dreams.

He is a total nightmare if truth be told.

 

I wish I could see it this way. All I can think about are his many many wonderful qualities, and all the wonderful time we spent together, and all the times he treated me with such care and kindness and respect. The alcoholism thing -- I wish I could see this as a problem, but I just haven't seen it, because he handles it so well.

 

I just need to type this out:

I said this somewhere before, but there is another girl he has strung along, on and off, for years. She seems to be sweet as can be, highly intelligent, creative, nurturing, interesting, good job, owns her own home. And yet he still doesn't want her. I'm saying this because I get stuck in this mindset that I'm just not good enough for him. I think he's probably gotten her hopes up by getting really close to her for periods of time, then dropped her when he was done, just like he's done with me. So I need to try try try to see him as NOT that great of a guy, like you just said, and try not to take it so personally.

[eye of the storm]

You cannot change him. You cannot win him. You cannot make him want to be with you. Only he can do that and he chooses not to.

 

I am not telling you that you didn't have a connection. I am sure you did. I will tell you though it wasn't enough of a connection for him.

 

What you are doing is swimming in shark infested waters, people are throwing you life rings and sending out life boats for you but you just keep yelling back I want a dolphin to save me. You are so determined to be saved by a dolphin that you will tread water till a shark eats you. Get out of the water, the dolphin is sitting back eating popcorn and cant be bothered to save you. Save yourself.

 

AlwaysPuzzled, when I was going thru my divorce, I hacked my ExH's phone, I knew who he talked, to how often, who called who, how long...

 

And every time I did it...i hurt myself. I was taking my meds, I was in therapy, but I couldn't get stable. Nobody could figure it out until I admitted to my therapist about my cyber-stalking.

 

She told me that everytime I logged in and tracked him, I was screwing up my brain chemicals. That is why they couldn't get me stable. It took over 2 weeks of not checking his phone records for me to finally feel like I was able to see reason. I wasn't there yet but I could at least now see that I was hurting myself.

 

How is this the same? Every time you text him you get the super high of "yea he answered" and the super low of "OMG, he hasn't answered, there must be another woman or he hates me" Just like an addicted gambler, or a drug addict...same reaction. There is no middle ground.

 

You can't heal until you stop with the destructive behavior. It is a choice. Just stop.

 

He knows you want him, he knows. The ball is in his court. You cannot control or change his wants, needs, or behaviors. If he is interested in a relationship he will contact you.

 

All you are doing is hurting yourself. You are not making him want to come back.

 

Go talk to someone about why you are willing to hurt yourself so much over someone who wants you so little. Go talk to yourself and find out why YOU destruct relationships. Why YOU cling to the ones who don't want you but dump the ones who do.

 

Every time you post it is the same thing. Excuses for his behavior and no self respect. You keep asking the exact same questions worded differently with different excuses lined up but still the same questions.

 

Get healthy. Learn to love YOU. Learn how to have a healthy relationship where you and he will feel secure and thrive.

 

Take back your power. I am hoping the best for you.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

You cannot change him. You cannot win him. You cannot make him want to be with you. Only he can do that and he chooses not to.

 

I am not telling you that you didn't have a connection. I am sure you did. I will tell you though it wasn't enough of a connection for him.

 

I'm starting to accept this, as depressing as it is. I have fallen into the trap for months now of thinking that if I can just figure it all out and understand him enough, I can coax him into something wonderful with me. I guess this is pretty common among women. We always seem to think we can change a man, or trick him into a relationship with us. It's delusional thinking, but so easy to get caught up in.

 

AlwaysPuzzled, when I was going thru my divorce, I hacked my ExH's phone, I knew who he talked, to how often, who called who, how long...

 

And every time I did it...i hurt myself. I was taking my meds, I was in therapy, but I couldn't get stable. Nobody could figure it out until I admitted to my therapist about my cyber-stalking.

 

She told me that everytime I logged in and tracked him, I was screwing up my brain chemicals. That is why they couldn't get me stable. It took over 2 weeks of not checking his phone records for me to finally feel like I was able to see reason. I wasn't there yet but I could at least now see that I was hurting myself.

 

How is this the same? Every time you text him you get the super high of "yea he answered" and the super low of "OMG, he hasn't answered, there must be another woman or he hates me" Just like an addicted gambler, or a drug addict...same reaction. There is no middle ground.

 

You can't heal until you stop with the destructive behavior. It is a choice. Just stop.

 

This rings so true, and how very interesting what your therapist said. The texting is most definitely a fix, when he answers. I don't see his replying as a sign of him wanting more, but I do breathe a sigh of relief that "whew, he isn't ignoring me, he must not hate me." I do at least recognize it as nothing more than a sign of politeness on his end - which after going through those two months of him ignoring me, feels like more than enough (my expectations have dipped soooooo low). I also get my fix by seeing when he's active on facebook. I'm ashamed to admit that, but might as well be honest (and thank you for being honest about what you did!). I know that he doesn't get on when he's with a girl, so I think "whew, at least he's not with a girl right now." I know it's not healthy. At some point I really may have to unfriend him, but I really did want to maintain a civil connection at the very least. And last time I deleted him, I went into panic mode at the loss of connection. You're right, it's just like an addiction.

 

I know that when morning comes and goes tomorrow and he hasn't logged on or read/replied to my message, I will be having all kinds of negative thoughts about myself. I wish I could take it back. I sent it impulsively earlier, after I had told myself all day long that I wouldn't be sending anymore. Then I started reading about attachment theories (more on that in a minute), and it just seemed like a really good idea to reach out. I regretted it 5 minutes later.

 

He knows you want him, he knows. The ball is in his court. You cannot control or change his wants, needs, or behaviors. If he is interested in a relationship he will contact you.

 

All you are doing is hurting yourself. You are not making him want to come back.

 

A big part of me hoped that by dramatically saying "goodbye," he would realize what he was losing and come after me. I didn't expect it to happen, but I really hoped that it would. There are tons of articles all over the internet about going No Contact to get him to come around. That was my goal (NC) but I just can't seem to stick to it. So I thought, okay, maybe if we maintain Low Contact, it will keep the connection alive enough for him to come back when he's ready. He comes and goes with everyone in his life, including women - so why wouldn't he come back to me? He may one day. He already did once, after two months of me badgering him. The constant messaging would be enough to scare a lot of people off for good, and yet he came back around, and was totally happy to see me and spend time with me. I'm the one who shut it down, because it wasn't enough for me. I actually shut it down the day after a really fantastic evening/night together, after we'd talked about all these things we were going to do and places we were going to go. I couldn't handle the uncertainty. Me doing this surely created lack of trust in him, if he has any human emotion whatsoever, which would damage the connection that we did have.

 

Every time you post it is the same thing. Excuses for his behavior and no self respect. You keep asking the exact same questions worded differently with different excuses lined up but still the same questions.

 

^^^ TRUTH ^^^

 

Take back your power. I am hoping the best for you.

 

Thank you

[AlwaysPuzzled]

cont'd from previous post...

 

Go talk to someone about why you are willing to hurt yourself so much over someone who wants you so little. Go talk to yourself and find out why YOU destruct relationships. Why YOU cling to the ones who don't want you but dump the ones who do.

 

This is all about attachment styles. He's definitely a dismissive-avoidant, and I'm a mix between fearful-avoidant and anxious-preoccupied.

 

I found this very interesting, in some reading I was doing just a bit ago:

 

from Attachment Theory - Mark Manson

"Anxious and avoidants frequently end up in relationships with one another more often than they end up in relationships with their own types. That may seem counter-intuitive, but there’s logic behind the madness. Avoidant types are so good at putting others off that oftentimes it’s only the anxious types who are willing to stick around and put in the extra effort to get them to open up. For instance, a man who is avoidant may be able to successfully shirk a secure woman’s pushes for increased intimacy. After which, the secure woman will accept the rejection and move on. But an anxious woman will only become more determined by a man who pushes her away. She’ll resort to calling him for weeks or months on end until he finally caves and commits to her. This gives the avoidant man the reassurance he needs that he can behave independently and the anxious woman will wait around for him. Often these relationships produce some magnitude of dysfunctional equilibrium as they fall into a pattern of chaser-chasee, which are both roles the anxious and avoidant types need in order to feel comfortable with intimacy."

 

I read that bolded part and I was like whoa! that's exactly what happened.

 

Honestly, I always did feel the whole two months that I was texting him that he got off on it. I didn't know if he was punishing me with the silent treatment for getting mad and ending things like I did, or if he was enjoying the ego boost, but I knew he was getting something out of it. I told him several times to just tell me if he wanted me to stop, and I would stop. I also told him he could just block me if he wanted me to leave him alone. He never did. Instead, he kept reading the messages (ya know how on facebook it shows what time it was read), but wouldn't reply. He could have deleted them without reading them if he was sick of it, or wanted me to know that I wasn't going to get through to him. But he read every single one. At first he would wait like half a day to read them, or read them the next morning, and then after a while he would start reading them as soon as I sent them. It all felt like mind games. If I'd had more self-respect I would have stopped, obviously. But his reading them gave me just enough encouragement to keep going. Sick, right? And then like I said, when we saw each other again, he was just as happy as could be to see me. He apologized for not responding and asked me what he needed to say, and I said we didn't need to talk about it, and we both just said clean slate and continued forward as if none of it had happened. So it certainly didn't scare him off like it would most people, which is interesting. I guess we both have issues.

 

SO, given this... maybe he NEEDS someone to chase after him, and he does things to trigger this behavior. I can't do it anymore though, because it makes me feel insecure and miserable.

 

Sorry for going on and on here, but writing this stuff and hearing you guys' feedback is really helping keep me calm, and I do feel like I'm making progress, slowly but surely. One other thing his ex told me: The last straw for her was one night when he kept on and on asking her if she had slept with his best friend a year prior. She finally admitted that she had (he treated her like crap, and she did it for payback. I would never condone that, but whatever). So he got mad, and they argued, and he locked her out of the apartment for a bit. Finally, she ended up crying on the floor by the door, and he suddenly relaxed and became affectionate and said "It's okay though, you're still sweet. I know you need me more than I need you." I think he wants to feel needed and in control. (so if I gave him what he needs, would he attach more? can't help but wonder)

 

I have to keep reminding myself of these things about him, because I have it in my head that he's a totally secure, stable, healthy individual, and I'm an obsessed, crazy, pathetic person who just isn't good enough for him. But he's not, and I'm not, until my buttons are triggered, which he does quite capably. Thank goodness for his ex, who filled me in on all this stuff. I really WOULD be totally lost and confused if I didn't know his history.

Edited November 27, 2014 by AlwaysPuzzled

[eye of the storm]

NC isn't supposed to be to get the other person back.

 

NC is so you can heal.

 

NC is taking back control over your life.

 

Maybe you would not be so anxious if you felt you had more control over your own life and you had come to peace with with who you are and what you want in your life.

 

You will be happier and healthier if that is your focus, not this guy.

 

Lots of people are giving you books to read so I'll give you one. Its a super fast read. Don't Feed the Monster on Tuesdays by Adolph Moser. It is a kids book and the monster is negative self esteem. I bought it for my son over 10 years ago. And he and I both still occasionally remind each other when we are "feeding the monster". It reminds us that if we think and talk badly about ourselves, we will act that way, and others will treat us that way.

 

Stop feeding the monster, let it starve. Find a way to get to the place where you know you are ready for a healthy relationship where you feel secure and you don't worry about how he will "take" things or if he is sticking around. You won't have to question everything or stress. You will be able to have conversations where you can be yourself, open and vulnerable and know that your entire being is safe.

 

You are an amazing unique person. But until you believe it, it's not really true. Tell yourself often how great you are. Even if you don't truly believe it in the beginning, keep telling yourself. Eventually, you will believe it, and then it really will be true.

[Frank2thepoint]

Good question! I'll explain my own thoughts on it, and maybe it will give you some insight into how other women might think as well, even if every woman's personal reasons might be slightly different.

 

There are three reasons I would become guarded if a guy says he wants a serious relationship right off the bat:

1. If he says it before he really gets to know me, I would assume that he just wants *a* relationship, and that it has little to do with me as an individual. I might then doubt his sincerity later on, as well, and think "Am I just here because he wants a relationship and it doesn't matter who it's with, or is it because he really likes me?"

2. I'd be afraid of hurting or disappointing him if I didn't feel the same way about him and want the same thing he wanted. Or if we discovered incompatibilities down the road and it didn't work out.

3. I'm not in a secure place in my life - I'm not working, I'm not financially independent, I have all these anxieties and insecurities. So I would feel intimidated in the sense that I would feel not good enough for what he's looking for.

 

Take all that with a grain of salt, because I definitely have all kinds of walls up and tons of insecurities, and I overthink every thing, but I think a lot of it could be felt by other women as well. Just food for thought!

 

Thanks for the insight and your honesty on how you would react to a man that advertises he wants a relationship. Concerning me, I always want to get to know a woman before I proceed to pursue them for a relationship. But I do make my intentions clear, after getting to know them of course, that I'm not looking for a casual fling. Although I create rapport and some connection, most women don't bite. But I'm a positive person; I see it as I avoided someone that probably wouldn't have been good for me.

 

Concerning you, your three points are valid and important for you. But what I wanted to emphasize, is you've mentioned that you are guarded against (maybe even avoid) men that mention in their OLD profile that they are looking for something serious. But from what I've read from your situation, you are looking for a serious relationship as well. But you seem to keep falling for the casual guys, who advertise they only want casual, yet you pursue them, only to be disappointed that they don't want anything beyond casual.

 

But this is a moot at this point because you have divulged you are aware of your self-limitations, that you are fearful-avoidant and anxious-preoccupied. That all explains why you avoid/guarded against men that are honest about looking for a serious relationship from the start, without ambiguity. There is no challenge with them. The men that just want casual continue to feed your negative perception about yourself. You do need to break out of this cycle or rut you are wallowing in. You need to heal, establish boundaries, and set mental discipline to not succumb to negative behavior.

 

 

 

 

I sent it 40 minutes ago and he hasn't read it yet. It's via facebook, so the notification will pop up on his phone without him having to go click it to read it and have it shown as read. So now I'm thinking is he ignoring me again? Did it annoy him? Is he with some girl?

 

I'm feeling pretty crappy about this message I just sent, that he hasn't read yet one hour later. I guess I shouldn't have sent it. I guess I wanted to test the waters and see if he would be receptive to hearing from me.

 

guess if he doesn't answer, then I have my answer, and should just give this up forever, huh?

 

It feels like a pretty harsh wake-up call right at this moment that he hasn't read my Happy Thanksgiving message yet. Sure, he could be busy, but he's answered me immediately before, and if he's not doing so now, it's because he's not happy to hear from me.

 

Anyways, I guess I'll give it til morning, and if he doesn't read or reply (he knows it's there - it shows up on his phone when it comes in), then I guess I'll need to just delete him as a friend and be done with it.

 

I thought he would reply, and he didn't, so now I'm feeling extremely low at the thought of him ignoring me again. I DO feel pathetic. Completely. I'm even contemplating sending a follow-up message just to save face -- about how I've been addressing my anxieties, and realizing that I pushed things and had too-high expectations, and that I've relaxed and thought that we could just be friends and maybe hang out occasionally, but that there was no pressure intended.

 

I'm somewhat mad at myself for sending it, but on the other hand, thinking maybe I needed to test the waters to see where things stand so that I can't quit having all these hopes and thoughts of reconciling with him.

 

SHOULD I say something else to save face??? Or just let it sit there ignored?

 

If he has still ignored it by tomorrow afternoon (sometimes he'll read/reply in the mornings), should I delete him off facebook? Block him or no? Or leave that connection just in case things could work out in the future?

 

ETA:

Maybe it was just too soon to try to reach out. Maybe he's tired of this and needs a break. Maybe I should leave the facebook connection for that reason.

 

Blocking would be dramatic. Unfriending would be as well, I guess - it would just show that I can't handle his not responding. If I can just manage to not react to this, I guess that shows strength - which I need to feel in order to regain my dignity. And I guess there's no need to close the door entirely, just in case.

 

I thought maybe it would open things up for a better text convo - I really don't care where he's eating or what his family is doing, I just wanted to send something with an open-ended question.

 

I wanted to quote some of your posts for the last two or three pages of this thread to point out how you keep digging yourself into a hole, instead of climbing out. You are constantly obsessing over him, obsessing over the text you sent for Thanksgiving which he ignored. On top of it all, you are holding out for an inkling of attention from him. He knows exactly what he is doing to you, and you keep feeding into him. If you don't stop and work on healing and strengthening your boundaries, you will continue this vicious cycle for months, maybe years. You would destroy all of your self-worth, self-respect, self-esteem, and sanity just for this guy. What is worse, is you are making excuses for him. You think he is tired, or annoyed, and that really he is a wonderful person that is caring and kind. No he is not. If he really gave a sh*t, he wouldn't be acting the way he is.

 

We can give you as much words of encouragement as you need, but it is up to you to act upon them. It is your choice to move one and heal or keep the miserable cycle going. In my personally opinion, you should definitely delete everything concerning him. Unfriend and block on Facebook. Delete his messages. Delete his number. Delete his texts. Delete his emails. Eradicate him to oblivion in your mind so you can just heal and learn to find a healthy, loving relationship.

[Itspointless]

First of all, I have to say that we have to be very careful with putting labels onto others. While reading your story, I read that you are pretty anxious. I recommend you to do this test. It give me a better view onto myself: Attachment Styles and Close Relationships Knowing how we perhaps can place the other is in the end helpful as it gives us a hint as to what problems we have to search with ourselves and need to work on.

 

What happened with the woman you dealt with? Did she come on strong and affectionate at the beginning, with small glimpses of avoidant behavior that became more pronounced as time went on? That's how it was with him. How did things end with her? Do you still talk to her at all?

No, I haven’t talked with her in a long time. She was the best thing that happened to me in my 35 years. She was very affectionate and come on strong. That was something that surprised her herself. It was a girlfriend of hers who actually made her aware that she was happier since she talked with me. There were more things like that that I found a bit odd, like she quit often suddenly said “I do not want to talk about it’, but often told it anyway. Unfortunately her medical problems came back. It was the stress of the illness and some other things that made her push me away. She told me that she always wants to deal with problems alone (there were many more things that drove me in the end to my conclusion). The last time I have seen her she reminded me of Doctor Spock. She did contact me once a month, it drove me insane.

I still find myself wondering if it's just a case of low interest on his part, or if it is indeed a deeper issue. I KNOW he liked me (I have to keep reminding myself, because now it all seems like a long-ago dream). I have a couple threads going about him, so I can't remember what all I said where, but some signs of his avoidance:

 

-- he's an alcoholic

-- has no trouble being fully invested and affectionate while drunk

-- the next morning, after a wonderful evening and night together, he won't make eye contact! even when he hugs me goodbye, no eye contact

-- wouldn't admit he even liked me while sober (when I was trying to find out what we were over text, I asked him if he liked me enough to want to be with me, and he said "don't know", and then sweetly apologized and assured me that he did while drunk

-- behavior with exes - very on and off, hot and cold, disappearing for periods of time, disconnecting and reconnecting

-- i've seen comments from friends on his facebook page saying "thanks for ignoring us for a year" or "I guess you forgot all about your friends here when you moved"

-- emphatically said he wouldn't miss anybody, not even his parents, if he moved out of state

-- has made several comments about how he can't make promises because of his alcoholism (he wasn't talking about with me, he was talking about work and life in general), how he hates responsibility, how it would be easier to just disappear than let a friend down by telling him he couldn't work with him anymore, how he wants to just run away sometimes

-- says he's always been sure that he'll die young, since he drinks so much, but doesn't seem concerned about that

 

Typing out that list, it all just seems very sad, and very hopeless.

It has to be said. Drinking much alcohol makes people depressed and depressed people also have a tendency to push significant others away. One thing is for sure he certainly hasn’t got a healthy way of living and of being by blowing hot and cold. I do not know how to place that point about responsibility. It is interesting though as it seems to hint that he perhaps is not that confident and perhaps does not fit the box of dismissive-avoidant.

Dismissive-avoidants have a positive view of self and a negative view of others.

 

 

A video on youtube that helped me as it summarized many things I have read this year is:

[AlwaysPuzzled]

NC isn't supposed to be to get the other person back.

 

NC is so you can heal.

 

NC is taking back control over your life.

 

True, although people all over the internet advocate for using it to get someone back. Thanks for the reminder - I do need to shift the focus back upon healing and getting over this. I'm going to try NC for two weeks, and then reassess at that time. If I say 30 day, I'm just setting myself up for failure. Baby steps.

 

Maybe you would not be so anxious if you felt you had more control over your own life and you had come to peace with with who you are and what you want in your life.

 

You will be happier and healthier if that is your focus, not this guy.

 

Also very true. I'm dependent on my parents in too many ways (emotionally, financially, bc of driving anxiety, etc). It might be that one reason I keep hanging onto the idea of him so tightly is too avoid these other things in life that I'm scared to confront.

 

Lots of people are giving you books to read so I'll give you one. Its a super fast read. Don't Feed the Monster on Tuesdays by Adolph Moser. It is a kids book and the monster is negative self esteem. I bought it for my son over 10 years ago. And he and I both still occasionally remind each other when we are "feeding the monster". It reminds us that if we think and talk badly about ourselves, we will act that way, and others will treat us that way.

 

Awesome, thanks! Adding it to my list. I need to renew my library card!

 

Stop feeding the monster, let it starve. Find a way to get to the place where you know you are ready for a healthy relationship where you feel secure and you don't worry about how he will "take" things or if he is sticking around. You won't have to question everything or stress. You will be able to have conversations where you can be yourself, open and vulnerable and know that your entire being is safe.

 

It would be so nice to be able to have a relationship in which I could do that. It's exhausting walking on eggshells, always afraid you'll do or say some tiny little thing that will make someone disappear forever. I guess if I had to feel that way with him, he really wasn't the right one for me. I don't even know how it feels to feel secure in a healthy relationship. The few chances that I've had for one, I felt smothered and left it. Ugh.

 

You are an amazing unique person. But until you believe it, it's not really true. Tell yourself often how great you are. Even if you don't truly believe it in the beginning, keep telling yourself. Eventually, you will believe it, and then it really will be true.

 

Thank you I'm such a mess right now. I keep crying at kind words! I really appreciate everyone's support here. I get exactly what you're saying - I need to believe that I'm worthy.

[elaine567]

OK I will try to add another way of looking at things.

 

A fictional scenario

"Last summer a friend of mine went to visit his folks, while there he met this girl and they hung out together, not his usual type but they had a bit of fun and he wasn't looking for anything serious anyway.

At about 3 weeks she asked him about their relationship and he had to tell her they were just friends as the last thing he wants just now is a committed relationship.

Just before his parents came back she asked again and he again had to say "just friends", because that is all it was really. But she got upset at that point and ended it, to a big sigh of relief from my friend. She texted and texted but there was no way he wanted to lead her on.

Fast forward another two months and his parents are going away again so just to relieve the boredom and against my advice, he asks this girl to come over again, but knowing what happened the last time, he tries to play it cooler.

Once his parents come back he goes to a new job and forgets about her, but she continues to get upset and frankly she is hounding him. He is a nice guy, but a bit feckless, and although really he should tell her to f*ck off as he has no real interest, he just doesn't want to play the nasty guy."

 

Ring any bells here?

I know the forum has diagnosed avoidant/dismissive and all sorts of awkward personality traits here, but could it just be, he is just not into you, and never has been.

You just filled a slot in his life and now he wants to move on completely, is my interpretation of the situation.

Get a grip, he was just a holiday romance basically.

GO find a man who cares, as this one clearly doesn't.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Thanks Frank! I'm glad you found your way back here - they merged all my threads into one. I appreciate your time and input.

 

Thanks for the insight and your honesty on how you would react to a man that advertises he wants a relationship. Concerning me, I always want to get to know a woman before I proceed to pursue them for a relationship. But I do make my intentions clear, after getting to know them of course, that I'm not looking for a casual fling. Although I create rapport and some connection, most women don't bite. But I'm a positive person; I see it as I avoided someone that probably wouldn't have been good for me.

 

There is a woman out there who will appreciate you to no end! So many guys play games and mislead women, use them and then dump them. It sounds like with you, a girl won't have to guess about where things are going, and that's priceless. You probably just haven't yet found a secure enough woman who is ready and able to settle down. You're doing the right things; don't change who you are. You'll make someone feel very lucky one day.

 

Concerning you, your three points are valid and important for you. But what I wanted to emphasize, is you've mentioned that you are guarded against (maybe even avoid) men that mention in their OLD profile that they are looking for something serious. But from what I've read from your situation, you are looking for a serious relationship as well. But you seem to keep falling for the casual guys, who advertise they only want casual, yet you pursue them, only to be disappointed that they don't want anything beyond casual.

 

I do this over and over again. It's so painful and always ends badly, and yet I keep doing it (going for the casual guys). Something in me is highly attracted to these kinds of guys. I'm drawn to them like a flame. This particular guy never said he wanted casual, but I probably sensed it early on, given that he was a bit evasive about what he was looking for.

 

But this is a moot at this point because you have divulged you are aware of your self-limitations, that you are fearful-avoidant and anxious-preoccupied. That all explains why you avoid/guarded against men that are honest about looking for a serious relationship from the start, without ambiguity. There is no challenge with them. The men that just want casual continue to feed your negative perception about yourself. You do need to break out of this cycle or rut you are wallowing in. You need to heal, establish boundaries, and set mental discipline to not succumb to negative behavior.

 

I don't know how to break out of it. I'm in my later 30's, and this has been my relationship pattern my entire life. Over and over again. I read that being in a relationship with a person of secure attachment style for some length of time can lift an anxious or avoidant into being more secure themselves, for what it's worth. Maybe I'll find someone like that one day. In the meantime, I need to figure out how to do the internal work. It's something that makes complete sense in concept, but I don't really know where to start. I'll think on that. I guess being more self-aware and informed is the first step.

 

He knows exactly what he is doing to you, and you keep feeding into him.

What is worse, is you are making excuses for him. You think he is tired, or annoyed, and that really he is a wonderful person that is caring and kind. No he is not. If he really gave a sh*t, he wouldn't be acting the way he is.

 

So you do think he's doing a lot of this on purpose then? I was sure of it during those two months he was ignoring me, like I posted upthread. I do feel he plays mind games with the texting. But then I think, he really does seem to be such a kind and compassionate person, why would he do that? And I start to doubt myself. It's crazy-making! Maybe he has some hidden lack of confidence, and having a girl chase him makes him feel good about himself. It helps that none of you seem to think he's actually a great guy. I wish I could fully, deep-down believe that he's not. His ex said that his parents, her family, and all their friends felt sorry for her, because they could see how badly he was treating her. And she and her friends thought maybe he's a sociopath. I became convinced at one point that he's a narcissist. But then it was back to putting him on a pedestal as the sweetest guy in the whole world.

 

I wanted to quote some of your posts for the last two or three pages of this thread to point out how you keep digging yourself into a hole, instead of climbing out. You are constantly obsessing over him, obsessing over the text you sent for Thanksgiving which he ignored. On top of it all, you are holding out for an inkling of attention from him.

 

Eye-opening to see all my worried thoughts about the text laid out like that. One stupid little text has set me back to the point where I couldn't sleep last night. He never got back on facebook and read it. I do make up potential excuses for it, because the reality that he doesn't care and finds me so unworthy just hurts too much. I can say, though, that I will not put myself in the position of allowing him to ignore and reject me again. That's the positive side to having sent the text - I tested the waters, he didn't bite, and I will therefore not do it again. Also, I hate to stoop to pettiness, but it makes me feel good that I will not be reacting to his non-response. I'm sure he expects me to get mad, or try again, but I'm not going to give him the satisfaction. Screw him if he can't be polite back.

 

If you don't stop and work on healing and strengthening your boundaries, you will continue this vicious cycle for months, maybe years. You would destroy all of your self-worth, self-respect, self-esteem, and sanity just for this guy.

 

I think I'm ready to stop. I've already destroyed my self-worth, self-respect, self-esteem, and sanity for MONTHS now over him. I'm glad I have the memories and the experience of the great time we had together, I really am, but I would be far healthier and better off right now if I had never met him. His ex dated him on and off for three years, and it took her a year of not speaking to him at all to get over it. She's not even an anxious or insecure person, either! And he still did that much damage to her.

 

In my personally opinion, you should definitely delete everything concerning him. Unfriend and block on Facebook. Delete his messages. Delete his number. Delete his texts. Delete his emails. Eradicate him to oblivion in your mind so you can just heal and learn to find a healthy, loving relationship.

 

I probably will have to do some of this at some point, and I agree that it might be best. But thinking of taking all those drastic measures of deleting everything just makes me feel sick. I'm not ready yet, but when I'm ready, I will. I guess I should give up on any hopes of it working out in the future, huh? That's one reason I wanted to keep a connection, just in case it could work out with us later. But if he's this toxic, he's probably not going to change. I need to accept that.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

First of all, I have to say that we have to be very careful with putting labels onto others. While reading your story, I read that you are pretty anxious. I recommend you to do this test. It give me a better view onto myself: Attachment Styles and Close Relationships Knowing how we perhaps can place the other is in the end helpful as it gives us a hint as to what problems we have to search with ourselves and need to work on.

 

I've taken this test! It places me as a fearful-avoidant. I feel that at times I fall into the preoccupied side of things, as well, though.

 

No, I haven’t talked with her in a long time. She was the best thing that happened to me in my 35 years. She was very affectionate and come on strong. That was something that surprised her herself. It was a girlfriend of hers who actually made her aware that she was happier since she talked with me. There were more things like that that I found a bit odd, like she quit often suddenly said “I do not want to talk about it’, but often told it anyway. Unfortunately her medical problems came back. It was the stress of the illness and some other things that made her push me away. She told me that she always wants to deal with problems alone (there were many more things that drove me in the end to my conclusion). The last time I have seen her she reminded me of Doctor Spock. She did contact me once a month, it drove me insane.

 

I'm sorry that you had to go through this with her. I know the pain!!! I guess we have to remind ourselves of the cliche saying, how it's better to have loved and lost. At least for a short time, we were able to experience something that felt wonderful with someone. It seems that the more intense/dramatic relationships are the ones that always end, but also the ones that give us the most extreme happiness.

 

It has to be said. Drinking much alcohol makes people depressed and depressed people also have a tendency to push significant others away. One thing is for sure he certainly hasn’t got a healthy way of living and of being by blowing hot and cold. I do not know how to place that point about responsibility. It is interesting though as it seems to hint that he perhaps is not that confident and perhaps does not fit the box of dismissive-avoidant.

Dismissive-avoidants have a positive view of self and a negative view of others.

 

Oh, he definitely does. He may have some deep-seated insecurities, but he comes across as highly self-confident. He's said that most people in this world make him feel like a genius because they're so stupid, lol. I guess we've all felt that way at times. But he knows how intelligent and talented he is, and how good-looking. He has a very high view of himself. I think he is dismissive-avoidant, and the drinking allows him to let down his guard and be extremely intimate. I've also read that these people come on really strong in the beginning, but when it becomes apparent that a connection is forming, they bail. He does have a history of intense short relationships. Even with his ex of three years, he kept disappearing and leaving all the time, right at times when a couple would normally get closer (her birthday, New Year's Eve, moving in together). Another ex has been an on-and-off situation for years. And then his ex told me about a few girls he had in rotation while with her, that he would see periodically for short intense periods of time. I really do think he's avoidant, and can only handle so much closeness.

 

Also gotta mention that his ex said they were together on and off for three years. He always told her that it wasn't cheating because they weren't "together," even though they were living and sleeping together! His version is that they dated for about 6 months and then she stalked him for 2 years. I believe her version.

 

A video on youtube that helped me as it summarized many things I have read this year is:

 

I'll watch this later today, thanks!

[AlwaysPuzzled]

OK I will try to add another way of looking at things.

 

A fictional scenario

"Last summer a friend of mine went to visit his folks, while there he met this girl and they hung out together, not his usual type but they had a bit of fun and he wasn't looking for anything serious anyway.

At about 3 weeks she asked him about their relationship and he had to tell her they were just friends as the last thing he wants just now is a committed relationship.

Just before his parents came back she asked again and he again had to say "just friends", because that is all it was really. But she got upset at that point and ended it, to a big sigh of relief from my friend. She texted and texted but there was no way he wanted to lead her on.

Fast forward another two months and his parents are going away again so just to relieve the boredom and against my advice, he asks this girl to come over again, but knowing what happened the last time, he tries to play it cooler.

Once his parents come back he goes to a new job and forgets about her, but she continues to get upset and frankly she is hounding him. He is a nice guy, but a bit feckless, and although really he should tell her to f*ck off as he has no real interest, he just doesn't want to play the nasty guy."

 

Ring any bells here?

I know the forum has diagnosed avoidant/dismissive and all sorts of awkward personality traits here, but could it just be, he is just not into you, and never has been.

You just filled a slot in his life and now he wants to move on completely, is my interpretation of the situation.

Get a grip, he was just a holiday romance basically.

GO find a man who cares, as this one clearly doesn't.

 

I just don't know. Some of this is probably what he was thinking, sadly enough, but I KNOW that the connection was there. He let me into his life that first time around. He wanted to be in my life. He may have only wanted casual, but I know he felt something. It feels self-defeating to keep telling myself that he just never gave a sh*t. I don't believe he cares any more - I have finally accepted this. And I do believe that he only got back in touch when his parents left again because it was convenient and fun, and that he kept his distance by not initiating texts so as not to lead me on. I do believe that. But the first time around, he was into me.

 

I know you mean well, and everyone here who says that he just wasn't that into me, and doesn't care, and never cared - I know you all mean well. But it's really REALLY depressing to think of it that way, and like I said, self-defeating to tell myself that I was never good enough for him, and that he just used me the entire time. If that's the case, then I can't at all trust my instincts or trust what is in front of me, because I FELT like he cared. Every indication (the first time) showed that he cared. If I was that wrong, then perhaps I just need to give up on relationships altogether, because I obviously can't read people worth a flip.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

So here I sit, crying again. On thanksgiving. It takes 2 seconds to return a text and wish the same back, and he doesn't even care enough to do that.

 

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm lashing out at you Elaine, because I'm not, but I feel defensive of the view you presented. It's not as if he normally has great relationships, and he just so happened to use and toss me because I wasn't good enough. I know YOU aren't saying I wasn't good enough, but that's how it feels, if he did indeed do that. He has a history of crappy behavior with women. He also has an ex-wife from years ago who he cheated on. They were married for 5 years. That's all I know. He claims that every single one of the women he's dated were "nuts" and "crazy". All of them. I've mentioned the girl he's strung along for years. From what I gather, he led her on and then dropped her during the second month he was ignoring me. He does this same thing to ALL women. So it's not as if i came along, and just wasn't his type, and he really just didn't like me enough but thought I would do for the moment. And then I'm so bad at reading situations, and so desperate to be loved, that I misconstrued the whole situation and became a nuisance who refused to give up and go away. He CREATES this situation with ALL women. He comes on super-strong in the beginning, draws them in and engulfs them with attention and affection. I really think he feels it too. And then eventually, when a conflict arises or he realizes that they want more than he is capable of giving or sustaining, he bolts. It doesn't mean he didn't care about me, or them, or that he saw it as a fling in the moment. As for me "hounding" him - like I said above, this situation is crazy-making. It's confusing that someone can be so into it, and them all of a sudden turn cold and shut you out. I mentioned that his ex is not an anxious style, and yet she did all the same things I've done. She called and texted him endlessly when he would disappear. She spent days crying in pain. Everything would be going along normally, he'd be sweet and present, and then he'd break up with her out of nowhere on her birthday. And then he'd go back. Maybe he went back to her because he learned that he could, whereas I get extremely harsh and abrasive when he disappears. He also lived with her, so he kind of had to go back.

 

I'm glad I know all of this about his history, because otherwise, it DOES look on the surface like he just wasn't that into me. If it were only me he'd done this with, then maybe I could believe that he never cared, and that I'm just that desperate and gullible. But this is how he operates, and my reaction to it is the same as other girls' reactions to it. I KNOW he feels it fully in the moment. I've been with guys who weren't all into me, and it was evident.

 

ETA:

Also, at the same time he was saying we were "just friends," he was telling me he loved me. He told me on 4 or 5 different occasions that he loved me. I didn't say it first, ask him, or prompt him in any way. And then another time, he got kind of disappointed when I kept referring to HIM as a friend. With his ex, they didn't make it "official" until 3 months. He actually disappeared on her for several days, out of the blue, wouldn't take phone calls or acknowledge her in any way (they were supposed to meet up to go out of town together, and he never showed, never called, gave no warning - just totally dipped out, and then proceeded to ignore her existence for days. she had to pay for his ticket, after sitting in the parking lot waiting on him, only to realize that he wasn't going to show up). Then he came back and asked to be her boyfriend. That was at 3 months. I asked him way early - 3 weeks and 6 weeks. Like Adele has said, any guy is going to resist a title when pressured or asked to early.

Edited November 27, 2014 by AlwaysPuzzled

[AlwaysPuzzled]

He just texted me back. Said Happy Thanksgiving, and that he's working.

 

I don't assume it means he cares. But at least he was polite enough to say it back. That's good enough for me, under the cirucumstances.

 

<<breathing a sigh of relief and feeling a tiny bit less horrible>>

 

****************************

 

HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all of YOU, as well. I am thankful for everyone's time and care and input. <3 <3 <3 I may not seem to be making any progress, but I promise that I am. I'm slowly but surely switching perspective, even if I back-track at times. Maybe one day in the future, this whole thread will help someone else who's going through the same thing.

Edited November 27, 2014 by AlwaysPuzzled

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Apologies in advance if this comes out somewhat incoherent. It's Thanksgiving and we're all lounging around in stuffing comas. I hope you're spending time with your loved ones, not crying too much over some jerk. Be thankful for the people in life who are good to you.

 

I'm going to go against the grain here and tell you to trash the relationship books. The "Stop Feeding the Monster" book sounds like a must-read, but I think everything else will be a waste of your time. You will probably just end up obsessing over what kind of person you are according to each book, what kind of person he is, what magical behavioral formula will bring him back. It will not help you get over him and it certainly won't help you heal. You need to see a therapist. Your focus has to be you and you alone.

 

If you wait until you feel ready to block him, you'll never do it. You won't heal so long as you're able to look at his life. You're not going to connect with him six months down the road and be happier, better people. Your story together is over. Start looking forward to the man who deserves your attention.

 

Elaine's retelling of the story sounds closer to the truth, especially in light of everything else you've posted. I don't think you need to give up on dating but you do need to improve your ability to read people and situations. This is something you can work on with a therapist.

Edited November 27, 2014 by chimpanA-2-chimpanZ

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Hey chimp. I'll be spending time with family in a few minutes, for the rest of the evening.

 

I don't think self-help books are a waste of time at all. I do agree, however, that I shouldn't focus on reading things that describe him, in the hopes of finding the formula to get him back. I'm tempted, but I'm realizing that it will be more productive to focus on healing myself.

 

You can never say never about getting back with someone in the future. You can't wait for it, and I won't, but it could happen. I told this story early in the thread, but in my early 20's I casually saw a guy for about 3 months. We really liked each other, but he was making little to no effort, and didn't want a commitment or relationship. I was more into it than he was, even though he liked me. He had issues, I had issues. I ended it because I thought he didn't care, and he didn't chase after me. A year later I ran into him, and we started talking again. I didn't expect much, given the previous experience. But we kept talking and hanging out, and it actually turned into something. I tried to end it once, because I was sure he didn't care. His issues made it seem as such. But he told me he loved me for the first time, and we continued on. Then we ended up moving in together. Our issues made it collapse, but he was more willing to stick it through than I was. I ended it. He was avoidant, and I was anxious. He acted like he didn't care sometimes, and other times acted like he did. Years later, I talked to him and he told me that I never believed him back then, but that he really did love me. I now know he meant it.

 

So see, similar thing, and look what happened. Never say never, and never look at something as black and white, because people's issues make them put up walls and behave in certain ways and treat people badly. That guy never would sleep in the bed with me, because he simply couldn't sleep. It bothered me to no end at the time, and I took it as I sign he didn't care about me.

 

I'm going to choose to look at this as two people with issues having come together and pushed each other away. And I'm going to use the pain it's caused me to try to heal all these wounds, make myself a better person, calm my anxieties, learn what NOT to do in relationships, etc etc etc. I'm not chasing after him, but I'm leaving it at polite and civil and not shutting the door or burning the bridge. I know that he did care about me, as much as he was capable.