I love him but I don't know what he's thinking anymore

[AlwaysPuzzled]

As d0nnivain mentioned, if you and the man are on a different page (you want a relationship, but he just wants casual) it is a moot point to even try. But for myself, I'm a serious relationship type of guy. I always made my intentions clear, and most women I've interacted with did not want the same. So I did not hover around, or attempted to convince the woman to try a serious relationship. I just moved on. Yes it does suck and is a disappointment, but you have to roll with the punches.

 

Also for me, if I met a woman, had chemistry on date 1, and she wanted a serious relationship from that point on, I would accept it. There is no difference for me between date 1 or date 10, The end goal is a relationship, which we both want. If we don't jell, we break up. Real simple. There are no guarantees in relationships.

 

I guess that's the problem. He never said he wanted casual, but he dropped hints that made me feel like that was what he wanted. Like calling us "just friends" at 3 weeks and again at 6 weeks, even though we had clearly been acting like more. When I asked him what he was looking for before we even met (we met online, but it turned out we went to high school together and lived around the corner from each other, so it wasn't a total random stranger), he said he "didn't know, but that it was fun to try to figure it out."

 

On your point about telling women you want a serious relationship... I know you're not asking for advice, but I'll offer my own experience as a woman. If a guy tells me that on a first or second date, or I see that in his online dating profile, I might feel a bit intimidated and guarded and shy away from the guy. But if he made those intentions known after a great week or two together, I'd be thrilled

 

This was your fault. You did not make clear your intentions to him. Hinting is great for flirting and sexual innuendos, but when it comes to solidifying a relationship, you need to voice your intentions. So you were even wrong for getting mad at him, because he probably didn't fully understand where it was come from. Sure he may have had an idea, but nothing solid to go on.

 

SO true! I can see this in hindsight. I made many many mistakes all along the way. This last time when I got mad, it was because he wasn't initiating any of the texting, and I would have liked to have texted once a day, just a quick hello. I also wanted things to be more like they were the first time we were together. But I never said any of this, because I wanted to play it "cool," and I wanted it to be his idea, so that I would know he was interested. Instead, I pretended to be okay with whatever, but the tension built within me because I felt unappreciated and totally confused. Then I just got mad (getting mad feels SO much better than feeling vulnerable) and criticized him for what he hadn't done, and said goodbye. Is there any way to let him know that I now realize what I did "wrong", explain where it came from, and see if he wants to keep talking or see each other some time? Or has the damage just been done?

[central]

How long would you casually date someone, if the chemistry is there, before deciding that you wanted it to last?

 

Perhaps a few months. But it can take a year or so beyond that to gain the experience that proves it can last - not just wishful thinking.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

You'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure out the why. It happens. Frequently.

I know it's tempting to think your situation is just uniquely complicated and deep and messy and special (we've all been there) -- but it really is as easy as that, as difficult as it may be to accept.

 

I know it's quite common - I've been reading tons of relationship advice articles and message boards, and it's sad and depressing and discouraging to see that this happens ALL THE TIME.

 

There's a huge difference between (1) a man liking you, and (2) a man liking you enough to want to be with you in a meaningful and committed way. When it's the latter, you will know.

 

Good point. I guess if it was there, I wouldn't be questioning. It just hurts SO badly to know that I felt it so strongly, and I thought he felt it in the same way... and to now figure that wasn't the case.

 

Maybe I need to get clear with myself on exactly what I DO want. I'm not completely settled in life by any means. I have issues, things to change and work on, independence to be gained, I'm not currently working, I have anxiety issues. Given all of this, I don't expect a man to commit 100% to me right now, as it wouldn't be fair for him to have to carry my "stuff." But what I DO want is something with an emotional connection, exclusivity, knowing that he wants to be with me for the "near long-term" (I'm not even thinking about forever right now - really just thinking for the next, say, half a year and then go from there). I wonder if it would make a difference if he knew this? If he would let his guard down and just enjoy it and not go anywhere? This might sound confusing, what I'm trying to say. I guess I'm saying that if you take the fear of commitment off the table, can he then feel more comfortable about opening up and getting close, enough so that a solid foundation is formed and you grow closer and more connected, and he won't want to go anywhere? Essentially committing to each other emotionally without a timeline or a title or a worry about "forever." Does that even almost make sense?

[elaine567]

"If a guy wants you, you’ll know it. He won’t make it a mystery, he won’t try to confuse you. In fact, he’ll do the opposite, he’ll make it clear as day that he’s interested so as not to risk losing you."

 

5 Signs He’s Not That Into You

 

He told you that you were "just friends", you just refused to listen.

When someone says that, they are not playing or fooling around, they are serious.

He ignored you for 2 months over it, 2 whole months, that was not a silly misunderstanding.

That was NOT

"we are just friends"

then

"only kidding"

5 minutes later.

He really meant it.

 

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Yes, but even then, meeting the right girl will change a guy's mind. I know it did for me. And that "right girl" never had to start off as casual only.

 

If it were perfect, you wouldn't have to come here and ask questions. Maybe he is lonely and you are filling a void. It could be anything.

 

It sounds like you are the one sooo into it in every way, not him. He is the one saying you can only be friends. You need to stop asking why people do what they do and just accept things as they are. Fact is, you are giving him all he requires from you already, without him giving you any kind of commitment. If that's cool with you, keep doing what you're doing. If not, you have some decisions to make.

 

It sounds like you are the one sooo into it in every way, not him.

I guess. When we were face-to-face, it felt like he was into it in every single way. You can tell when someone is holding back, and he just wasn't at all. He was fully present, and made me feel like I was his whole world. That's what I don't get. I can't be that way with someone unless I'm completely into them. If something is even the slightest bit off, I know it shows in my actions and body-language. And I'm hyper-sensitive to that in others (signs that they aren't into it), and the signs just weren't there.

 

Fact is, you are giving him all he requires from you already, without him giving you any kind of commitment. If that's cool with you, keep doing what you're doing. If not, you have some decisions to make.

Yeah, I realized this (that I was giving him all he needed, and I wasn't getting a commitment in return) and that's why I said I couldn't do it anymore. I ended it. It's over. I just wish he would come after me (he hasn't - it's been like a week and a half since I told him I couldn't do it anymore), or that I could figure out some way to go back and turn this into something more fullfilling. I'm slowly accepting that it's a lost cause but still haven't given up all hope.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Perhaps a few months. But it can take a year or so beyond that to gain the experience that proves it can last - not just wishful thinking.

 

Okay. So I think I rushed things, ya know? I asked what we were at 3 weeks and 6 weeks - a big no-no, especially in the way I went about it. Then we were not talking for 2 months. Then we started seeing each other again, and I expected more right off the bat.

 

I didn't expect "forever" - I guess I really just wanted reassurance that he wanted to be there and wanted to stick around for a while, and I didn't know how to be vulnerable and ask him about it without coming across as needy and desperate, so I just lashed out and ended the whole thing. I couldn't handle the uncertainty.

 

Sighhh.

[Itspointless]

I don't know who I'm trying to convince here - myself or you guys - but he DID show interest. The first 6 weeks, he did 90% of all initiating. This time around, he wasn't initiating the communication, but when I was with him in person, he was all there in every way. That's where my confusion lies!!! He loved spending time with me - I know this 100% - and he invited me over, I didn't invite myself over. But he would not text me first at all. If he wasn't interested, he wouldn't have wanted me to come over. I would say hello, and he'd say come over, and then he'd call me on the phone and say it would be good to see me, and I'd go. So looking at time spent together, he seemed fully interested; looking at his texting habits, he seemed almost completely uninterested. SO CONFUSING.

Sorry I only scanned all the answers posted. He is interested but afraid. I truly believe idoltree is right here with the analysis on attachment. You should read about the 'anxious-avoidant trap'. As for the first few weeks, you should read this: Love and War in Intimate Relationships: Connection, Disconnection, and ... - Marion Solomon, Stan Tatkin - Google Books page 93 below. After the time that is described there it became to real. Plus your anxious behavior (demands) make him push: he wants it but can't stand it if you catch my drift. Sorry, it sucks, it makes you feel like you go insane.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Sorry I only scanned all the answers posted. He is interested but afraid. I truly believe idoltree is right here with the analysis on attachment. You should read about the 'anxious-avoidant trap'. As for the first few weeks, you should read this: Love and War in Intimate Relationships: Connection, Disconnection, and ... - Marion Solomon, Stan Tatkin - Google Books page 93 below. After the time that is described there it became to real. Plus your anxious behavior (demands) make him push: he wants it but can't stand it if you catch my drift. Sorry, it sucks, it makes you feel like you go insane.

 

Thank you! I will read that link after I eat dinner.

 

I'm getting a mixure of opinions - most people (including some of my friends, none of whom actually know him) tell me he is not interested, no gray area to it. But given the way he leads his life in general, and his past relationship history that I know of, I really do think he's an avoidant. I've read a little on this, but of course my main question is if there is anything that can be done about it, and that answer is harder to come by in regards to my specific situation.

 

If he and I could communicate openly, I feel like we could get somewhere. But he doesn't want to talk about this kind of thing. He shuts down or evades questions, gives vague answers.

 

The way things stand right now is that neither of us is reaching out. I told him pretty harshly that I couldn't put up with him coming in and out of my life, etc etc etc, and said goodbye. Since then, we've had a few friendly exchanges, and so things are civil and the connection is open to say hello or whatever, but neither of us is doing so.

 

I have NO idea what he is thinking or feeling. Not a single clue. I bombarded him with all my thoughts via text, and he said nothing in return. So I have zero information about where his head is at. I would love to talk to him, but I'm scared he'll reject it, so I'm not saying anything. As for him not saying anything - it could be because he doesn't care, isn't interested - or it could be because I overwhelmed him and he doesn't know what to say or do. I don't know if he's thinking about me at all, or if I'm completely off his radar. Likewise, I'm acting like I'm over it as well - going about my business posting random pointless crap on facebook in a happy enough manner (that's the only connection we have left, as facebook friends, which is where we've always done all of our texting/messaging) - not overkill by any means, but I'm just posting like I've always posted. And I'm not reaching out to him in any way. So he could easily assume that I'm over him, when I'm obviously far from it.

 

I just don't know what to doooo If he still likes me and cares, and is just scared and doing what he does by withdrawing and shutting down, then it seems a shame to just let our connection end when we both do like each other. I'm sure he doesn't think about this stuff like I do. I know I'm anxious, I know where it comes from, I read things and discuss things and think about things. I'm pretty sure he doesn't do that. He just goes to work and goes home and drinks beer.

 

When I do reach out to him via text, it's always just "hey, how are you?", "I'm good, how are you?" and that's as far as it goes. Neither of us are phone people. And he's working out of town all the time now, so I don't even know if/when he'll be home for a potential face-to-face (which I'm scared to ask for).

 

Seems like SO much work, and more than most people would consider worth it. But to me, this guy is totally worth it.

 

Any suggestions?

[Frank2thepoint]

On your point about telling women you want a serious relationship... I know you're not asking for advice, but I'll offer my own experience as a woman. If a guy tells me that on a first or second date, or I see that in his online dating profile, I might feel a bit intimidated and guarded and shy away from the guy. But if he made those intentions known after a great week or two together, I'd be thrilled

 

Thanks for the advice. Don't worry, I'm already doing a great job scaring the ladies away just by mentioning that I am interested in them or like them at the third date. But since you mentioned the bolded, and I gather that you are looking for a serious relationship, why would you be intimidated and guarded from a guy that also wants a serious relationship as well? Isn't that what you want anyway?

 

 

Is there any way to let him know that I now realize what I did "wrong", explain where it came from, and see if he wants to keep talking or see each other some time? Or has the damage just been done?

 

Your only hope is to talk with him. Not through text, but in person. Hopefully you guys will still see each other, then you should just lay out everything. This is no guarantee he will want anything serious. Especially if he is still holding onto the past, there is nothing you can do to change that. I understand you have abandonment issues, but you are your own worst enemy. You will continue having bad experiences, by pushing men away that can't handle such a prospect. Also you need to learn to communicate better. Vocalizing what you want and what you don't want. Lastly, you need to have boundaries, not just for the men, but for yourself. You can't keep running back to men that don't want what you do.

[Itspointless]

Any suggestions?

Oh boy ... If he is acting like this, there is nothing you can do. I have experienced it myself with a woman last year. There also others here who have experienced something similair: my name describes the conclusion I had to accept. And yes for now he probably dismisses thoughts about you. perhaps he will contact you at some point, to avoid you at another again. If you search on google for dismissive-avoidant you can finds lots of stories and information. As for treating it, it is hard - takes years and even than - only few do it. Also search for articles by Stan Tatkin and Robert T. Muller.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Itspointless

[d0nnivain]

There is another thread on here about on line profiles, & how much stuff to put in them or leave out.

 

 

I debated the meaning of the use of the word friendship in a profile. It was pointed out that many people use the word to signal they are not willing to jump into sex but that they are trying to build a relationship & that nobody wants to appear desperate by saying they want love. I found that kind of imprecise language use maddening. Dating by definition is a get to know you activity. Simply because two people agreed to spend even 4 hours together for say dinner, does not a life time commitment make. To say you want to be friends which to me rules out romance, is misleading when what you mean is that you want to get to know somebody before jumping into bed with them. They are different things, imho.

 

 

Bottom line: be clear & specific about what you want but avoid saying things like "will you marry me or have my kids?" on an early date.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Oh boy ... If he is acting like this, there is nothing you can do. I have experienced it myself with a woman last year. There also others here who have experienced something similair: my name describes the conclusion I had to accept. And yes for now he probably dismisses thoughts about you. perhaps he will contact you at some point, to avoid you at another again. If you search on google for dismissive-avoidant you can finds lots of stories and information. As for treating it, it is hard - takes years and even than - only few do it. Also search for articles by Stan Tatkin and Robert T. Muller.

 

Thank you for the research suggestions, I'll definitely give it a look.

 

What happened with the woman you dealt with? Did she come on strong and affectionate at the beginning, with small glimpses of avoidant behavior that became more pronounced as time went on? That's how it was with him. How did things end with her? Do you still talk to her at all?

 

I wonder if No Contact works with these people, or if Low Contact is a better idea. Or just acting like you've always acted and pretend not to notice the avoidant behavior. Right now I'm contemplating whether or not to send him a simple Happy Thanksgiving text tomorrow, or to try to maintain No Contact for a while. Crazy that you have to walk on eggshells like this, knowing that any little thing could push them further away.

 

I still find myself wondering if it's just a case of low interest on his part, or if it is indeed a deeper issue. I KNOW he liked me (I have to keep reminding myself, because now it all seems like a long-ago dream). I have a couple threads going about him, so I can't remember what all I said where, but some signs of his avoidance:

 

-- he's an alcoholic

-- has no trouble being fully invested and affectionate while drunk

-- the next morning, after a wonderful evening and night together, he won't make eye contact! even when he hugs me goodbye, no eye contact

-- wouldn't admit he even liked me while sober (when I was trying to find out what we were over text, I asked him if he liked me enough to want to be with me, and he said "don't know", and then sweetly apologized and assured me that he did while drunk

-- behavior with exes - very on and off, hot and cold, disappearing for periods of time, disconnecting and reconnecting

-- i've seen comments from friends on his facebook page saying "thanks for ignoring us for a year" or "I guess you forgot all about your friends here when you moved"

-- emphatically said he wouldn't miss anybody, not even his parents, if he moved out of state

-- has made several comments about how he can't make promises because of his alcoholism (he wasn't talking about with me, he was talking about work and life in general), how he hates responsibility, how it would be easier to just disappear than let a friend down by telling him he couldn't work with him anymore, how he wants to just run away sometimes

-- says he's always been sure that he'll die young, since he drinks so much, but doesn't seem concerned about that

 

Typing out that list, it all just seems very sad, and very hopeless.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

I just sent him a friendly Happy Thanksgiving message and asked if his family is doing a big thing tomorrow. Screw it. I don't really want to play the No Contact game. If he doesn't respond, then I'll probably just give up. I don't guess there's any harm with sending it, though, since we left things on a friendly note and I haven't been texting him, and I haven't tried to talk about anything heavy or take back my "goodbye." If someone can't handle a simple/friendly message, then I guess they really do have issues, huh? Every time I send him a message, I wait on pins and needles to see how long it will take him to read it, and if he'll even reply.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Thanks for the advice. Don't worry, I'm already doing a great job scaring the ladies away just by mentioning that I am interested in them or like them at the third date. But since you mentioned the bolded, and I gather that you are looking for a serious relationship, why would you be intimidated and guarded from a guy that also wants a serious relationship as well? Isn't that what you want anyway?

 

Good question! I'll explain my own thoughts on it, and maybe it will give you some insight into how other women might think as well, even if every woman's personal reasons might be slightly different.

 

There are three reasons I would become guarded if a guy says he wants a serious relationship right off the bat:

1. If he says it before he really gets to know me, I would assume that he just wants *a* relationship, and that it has little to do with me as an individual. I might then doubt his sincerity later on, as well, and think "Am I just here because he wants a relationship and it doesn't matter who it's with, or is it because he really likes me?"

2. I'd be afraid of hurting or disappointing him if I didn't feel the same way about him and want the same thing he wanted. Or if we discovered incompatibilities down the road and it didn't work out.

3. I'm not in a secure place in my life - I'm not working, I'm not financially independent, I have all these anxieties and insecurities. So I would feel intimidated in the sense that I would feel not good enough for what he's looking for.

 

Take all that with a grain of salt, because I definitely have all kinds of walls up and tons of insecurities, and I overthink every thing, but I think a lot of it could be felt by other women as well. Just food for thought!

 

Your only hope is to talk with him. Not through text, but in person. Hopefully you guys will still see each other, then you should just lay out everything. This is no guarantee he will want anything serious. Especially if he is still holding onto the past, there is nothing you can do to change that. I understand you have abandonment issues, but you are your own worst enemy. You will continue having bad experiences, by pushing men away that can't handle such a prospect. Also you need to learn to communicate better. Vocalizing what you want and what you don't want. Lastly, you need to have boundaries, not just for the men, but for yourself. You can't keep running back to men that don't want what you do.

 

Thank you for the advice We won't see each other, unless it's purposefully getting together. We live so close, and yet we never run into each other anywhere. I was thinking if I talk to him, it does need to be face-to-face. I get nowhere over text with him. It would take a lot of courage to ask him to hang out, though, and I think I'm too scared of the rejection. I think I'll probably end up waiting for a while before doing anything.

 

I did just send him a Happy Thanksgiving text though. I sent it 15 minutes ago and he hasn't read it yet. This happens every time I message him - I wait on pins and needles to see if he'll read and respond. And if he doesn't respond right away, I get this sinking feeling that he's not going to at all. It's horrible. I just figure, though, that doing No Contact might be good for my ego, but pretty much makes us strangers. I won't be overdoing it with messages at all, but it seems okay to just be friendly and wish him a happy holiday, you think? Like I would do for any friend. If he doesn't reply, I'm going to be pretty upset and feel pretty rejected. Maybe I just need to remember that if he doesn't, then it's his issues and not mine. There was zero pressure in the message, no indication that I want anything from him.

 

I definitely need to work on both communication skills and boundaries, no doubt. And I agree that I'm my own worst enemy, in a big huge way.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

There is another thread on here about on line profiles, & how much stuff to put in them or leave out.

 

I debated the meaning of the use of the word friendship in a profile. It was pointed out that many people use the word to signal they are not willing to jump into sex but that they are trying to build a relationship & that nobody wants to appear desperate by saying they want love. I found that kind of imprecise language use maddening. Dating by definition is a get to know you activity. Simply because two people agreed to spend even 4 hours together for say dinner, does not a life time commitment make. To say you want to be friends which to me rules out romance, is misleading when what you mean is that you want to get to know somebody before jumping into bed with them. They are different things, imho.

 

Bottom line: be clear & specific about what you want but avoid saying things like "will you marry me or have my kids?" on an early date.

 

The word "friend" really is frustrating! It could mean so many things to so many different people. I've said it myself, before meeting people, just in case I end up not liking them. I said it to this guy, in fact - I told him before meeting him that if nothing else, we could be friends. If I said it to someone I like right now, like say with him, I would mean it in a very genuine way... that I wanted us to have a good foundation of friendship from which to built more upon. And I've also said it to guys I wasn't interested in! Then you have people who will say it in the hope of a FWB situation. So who's to know what someone means when use this word???

[AlwaysPuzzled]

WELL.... I just sent him a friendly Happy Thanksgiving message and asked if his family is doing a big thing tomorrow. Screw it. I don't really want to play the No Contact game. If he doesn't respond, then I'll probably just give up. I don't guess there's any harm with sending it, though, since we left things on a friendly note and I haven't been texting him, and I haven't tried to talk about anything heavy or take back my "goodbye." If someone can't handle a simple/friendly message, then I guess they really do have issues, huh? Every time I send him a message, I wait on pins and needles to see how long it will take him to read it, and if he'll even reply.

 

I sent it 40 minutes ago and he hasn't read it yet. It's via facebook, so the notification will pop up on his phone without him having to go click it to read it and have it shown as read. So now I'm thinking is he ignoring me again? Did it annoy him? Is he with some girl?

[elaine567]

Lots of people, have relationships where they liked another, where they even loved another, but sometimes that like/love can get switched off like a tap, suddenly they can go, "what on earth did I ever see in him/her?"

 

If they are open, confident people, they just say "no more.. we should end this."

If they are not so open and brave, then they rely on body language to get the message across, no holding hands, no cuddles, no sex, no close interactions, or they deliberately cause fights, or they become unavailable, they go spend time with other people, they hope the other will take the hint and just go.

They avoid eye contact, they become cold, they become uncontactable, they may adopt a polite and friendly role if forced into interaction, but their main aim is to switch the other person off.

Most, at that point take the hint, and they go look for someone else.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Lots of people, have relationships where they liked another, where they even loved another, but sometimes that like/love can get switched off like a tap, suddenly they can go, "what on earth did I ever see in him/her?"

 

If they are open, confident people, they just say "no more.. we should end this."

If they are not so open and brave, then they rely on body language to get the message across, no holding hands, no cuddles, no sex, no close interactions, or they deliberately cause fights, or they become unavailable, they go spend time with other people, they hope the other will take the hint and just go.

They avoid eye contact, they become cold, they become uncontactable, they may adopt a polite and friendly role if forced into interaction, but their main aim is to switch the other person off.

Most, at that point take the hint, and they go look for someone else.

 

What if there are mixed signals though? All the body language is still open and affectionate, they still want to spend time together, they seem fully and completely happy to be with you.

 

But then they go cold and do the polite/friendly response thing.

 

Then they go back to being open and available.

 

Then they.... etc etc etc

 

Since they're always hot and cold, you don't know if their *cold* is just temporary, or if they're done.

 

*****************************************

I'm feeling pretty crappy about this message I just sent, that he hasn't read yet one hour later. I guess I shouldn't have sent it. I guess I wanted to test the waters and see if he would be receptive to hearing from me. Now I feel kind of pathetic. A mutual friend tried to send him a message earlier, about something completely non-related, and he said that he read it this afternoon and didn't reply. It was nothing at all to do with me, it was just a work question. So maybe I shouldn't take it so personally if he doesn't respond, but I SO do. Maybe he's just having a bad day and doesn't feel like talking to anyone. Or maybe he rolled his eyes when my message popped up and he's wondering why I can't just take the freaking hint already.

 

I guess if he doesn't answer, then I have my answer, and should just give this up forever, huh?

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I agree with this, as well. It's nice to have different perspectives. But your view leaves no room for the gray areas of life and relationships. Can't two people who are damaged/unsure/defensive/imperfect come together and maybe grow with each other into something more?

 

Why do you think it leaves no gray areas? No one is perfect. My boyfriend was badly damaged from a devastating breakup with his former fiance, I struggle a lot with healthy emotional self-expression, we sometimes freak out in our own heads and drive each other crazy. We are far from perfect. But our relationship works because we can communicate with each other respectfully and honestly. The issue is that we choose to do it together. You can't make this guy choose to do "grow with you".

 

You can be a very imperfect or even broken person and still have high standards. It's not black and white to say you won't accept less than a committed relationship. You know what you value and it's not wrong to want to date people with the same expectations.

 

Can't people change their minds? Can't interest and attraction wax and wane? If I became a stronger person with more self-respect while still connected with him, would he possibly adjust to it, and the dynamics of the "relationship" would change? I mean, I don't know the answer to that, but it seems possible. I know that my behavior pushed him away. So if my behavior changed, would he then relax under the lack of pressure, and a deeper bond could be formed?

 

It is extremely difficult if not impossible to become a stronger person for yourself when you're doing it as a means to an end. Self-improvement has to be for (surprise!) the self. You will not benefit if you're doing it for his sake. Furthermore, you can't determine how connected he is to you or not. Even if you keep contacting him, that won't make him tied to you if he doesn't want to be. Yes, sure, anything is possible, but nothing you do can bring him back. If he comes back it's because he chose to.

 

He was into me, I know he was. I can pick up on the most subtle of signs that someone is pulling back (in person), and he never did. The time apart was the issue. Anyways, what I was trying to say was that I was completely single for the past 2-3 years, never a date or a crush. I'm not desperate for a relationship. I just really fell for this particular guy, hard.

 

I never thought you were desperate for a relationship, just that you were desperate for someone who didn't want you. Saying he's not into you doesn't mean you're ugly, stupid or not good enough. It's not a reflection on you at all! It just means he isn't sufficiently interested to give you the affection you're seeking, so you should move on until you find someone who does.

[elaine567]

What if there are mixed signals though? All the body language is still open and affectionate, they still want to spend time together, they seem fully and completely happy to be with you.

 

But then they go cold and do the polite/friendly response thing.

 

Then they go back to being open and available.

 

Then they.... etc etc etc

 

Since they're always hot and cold, you don't know if their *cold* is just temporary, or if they're done.

 

How could you possibly have a long term relationship with such a person?

You will never know where you are with them, that is the path to madness.

 

Why There?s No Point Being With Somebody Who Blows Hot & Cold | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue

[elaine567]

And - Understanding Code Red and Amber behaviour in Relationships | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Why do you think it leaves no gray areas? No one is perfect. My boyfriend was badly damaged from a devastating breakup with his former fiance, I struggle a lot with healthy emotional self-expression, we sometimes freak out in our own heads and drive each other crazy. We are far from perfect. But our relationship works because we can communicate with each other respectfully and honestly. The issue is that we choose to do it together. You can't make this guy choose to do "grow with you".

 

You can be a very imperfect or even broken person and still have high standards. It's not black and white to say you won't accept less than a committed relationship. You know what you value and it's not wrong to want to date people with the same expectations.

 

It is extremely difficult if not impossible to become a stronger person for yourself when you're doing it as a means to an end. Self-improvement has to be for (surprise!) the self. You will not benefit if you're doing it for his sake. Furthermore, you can't determine how connected he is to you or not. Even if you keep contacting him, that won't make him tied to you if he doesn't want to be. Yes, sure, anything is possible, but nothing you do can bring him back. If he comes back it's because he chose to.

 

I never thought you were desperate for a relationship, just that you were desperate for someone who didn't want you. Saying he's not into you doesn't mean you're ugly, stupid or not good enough. It's not a reflection on you at all! It just means he isn't sufficiently interested to give you the affection you're seeking, so you should move on until you find someone who does.

 

Thanks, chimp. I'm coming around to your way of thinking It feels like a pretty harsh wake-up call right at this moment that he hasn't read my Happy Thanksgiving message yet. Sure, he could be busy, but he's answered me immediately before, and if he's not doing so now, it's because he's not happy to hear from me. I feel so pathetic for sending it. Totally just set myself up for rejection by someone who has ignored me in the past. I thought we were over that. I thought he wasn't going to do that again, because he's made an effort not to this time around, knowing it would hurt me. Now what?!? I'll give it til the morning, because sometimes if I send a message late in the evening, he won't read it til morning. A mutual friend sent him one last night with a work question, and he didn't read it until this afternoon, and didn't bother answering him (this has nothing to do with me, as he doesn't even know that me and this guy are friends). Anyways, I guess I'll give it til morning, and if he doesn't read or reply (he knows it's there - it shows up on his phone when it comes in), then I guess I'll need to just delete him as a friend and be done with it. I just hate to break that very last connection, ya know? But I'm not gonna put myself in a position where I'm getting repeatedly ignored again.

 

Thanks for your post I read and absorbed it, just preoccupied with this stupid text message thing at the moment.

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

Is it really mixed signals when he's polite, friendly and affectionate only when you're in his presence? The total lack of initiation is telling.

 

So the thrilling high of the text has worn off and now you're crashing. You're sweaty, sick, miserable. You hate yourself for being so stupid---he probably thinks it sounds clingy, you think, or that it's pathetic. The loneliness, self-loathing and shame is suffocating. You'll sleep fitfully if you sleep at all. You will start to to consider the possibility that he really doesn't care.

 

In the best-case scenario he eventually responds. "Happy Thanksgiving." Or maybe a turkey emoji. Just the sight of his name on your screen will send your pulse racing. He does care! He loves you! He's loved you all along! You will be giddy, almost tearful with excitement. And the cycle begins again.

 

I don't believe any further contact with him is a good idea, but if you're going to do this, you need to do it in person so you don't lose any more months of your life on this imaginary elaborate dance. Take it from someone who's been there.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Thanks elaine. I love Baggage Reclaim! I'll reread those two links you've posted.

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Is it really mixed signals when he's polite, friendly and affectionate only when you're in his presence? The total lack of initiation is telling.

 

So the thrilling high of the text has worn off and now you're crashing. You're sweaty, sick, miserable. You hate yourself for being so stupid---he probably thinks it sounds clingy, you think, or that it's pathetic. The loneliness, self-loathing and shame is suffocating. You'll sleep fitfully if you sleep at all. You will start to to consider the possibility that he really doesn't care.

 

In the best-case scenario he eventually responds. "Happy Thanksgiving." Or maybe a turkey emoji. Just the sight of his name on your screen will send your pulse racing. He does care! He loves you! He's loved you all along! You will be giddy, almost tearful with excitement. And the cycle begins again.

 

I don't believe any further contact with him is a good idea, but if you're going to do this, you need to do it in person so you don't lose any more months of your life on this imaginary elaborate dance. Take it from someone who's been there.

 

Exactly! That's exactly how I'm feeling right now. It feels horrible. I thought he would reply, and he didn't, so now I'm feeling extremely low at the thought of him ignoring me again. I DO feel pathetic. Completely. I'm even contemplating sending a follow-up message just to save face -- about how I've been addressing my anxieties, and realizing that I pushed things and had too-high expectations, and that I've relaxed and thought that we could just be friends and maybe hang out occasionally, but that there was no pressure intended. Or a somewhat snarky message saying okay, just wanted to try to be friends, but I'll delete you from facebook now so as not to bother you. Neither is a good idea, I'm sure. It just hurts my feelings, and hurts my ego, for him not to answer. I'm somewhat mad at myself for sending it, but on the other hand, thinking maybe I needed to test the waters to see where things stand so that I can't quit having all these hopes and thoughts of reconciling with him.

 

I lol'ed at your emoji comment