death in MM's family

[MissBee]

I would send a condolence text. I know my MM tends to retreat within himself when big bad stuff happens so I go out of my way during those times to make sure he knows he's loved and cared about. Even if he doesn't respond, he'll know you care and are thinking of him.

 

Don't let your head get away from you about what might happen. Your head can be your own worst enemy. Just be there for him, don't push for a bit and see what happens. Be his soft place to fall

 

I think this is the difficult aspect of the A situation here..."being there" for the person and being their "soft place to fall" seems very murky esp when being their soft place to land often involves not really being there in many respects and waiting for them to come to you and clue you in while like what Scarlet is doing, you're on the other end completely unaware of what is really happening with them and you're just guessing and driving yourself mad. It's not fair IMO to just be the soft place to fall, the comfort zone but not actively involved in other aspects of how they are going about their lives. That can be a dangerous place IMO.

 

In an open relationship most people wouldn't tolerate their partner shutting them out and then just waiting until they wanted a soft place to fall to welcome them in. Part of being partners in most relationships is compromising, realizing you can't shut the person out but instead letting them in on things as they happen. Also, it's easier to support when you can be around them versus you are on the other end of a phone or wherever waiting for them to signal for you. I think there is a big difference for example, between me being there for my bf if he is having a tough time by offering to come over and make food, sitting with him, helping him to make phone calls, running errands etc. while he is grieving and waiting for him to talk about it vs. when my bf is married and all I can do is wait for him to call me when he wants a soft place to land. The former is more inclusive and feels a lot more like what true support looks like vs. the latter where support can be mistaken for being used as an emotional pillow without the full benefits of what a true partnership is about.

 

Just my thought on that esp in reference to Scarlet's case.

Edited September 24, 2014 by MissBee

[solostand]

The dynamic in your affair must be pretty different than mine. It is NEVER a mistake to reach out with condolences.

 

When MM's brother dropped dead suddenly, MM called me immediately. We decided I would not go to the wake or funeral as I did not know his brother - but I let him know I would be there for him in any way I could.

 

I was with him the first time he visited his brother's grave (he took the death kind of hard). He often opens up to me about his feelings about this, and even dreams he has of his brother.

 

He also phoned me when he was collapsing from an infection, then from intensive care, and phoned me the minute his grandchild was born and wasn't even out of the delivery room yet.

 

He spent several weeks in hospital and I visited him almost every day.

 

I would think NOT KNOWING would be the hardest. The least he could do is text you saying really busy with family stuff etc.

[Scarlet2]

This is true, my head is going all over. I know he's busy and I know he's grieving and he's tired and my heart aches that his heart is broken by this.

 

I want to comfort and support him but he's getting all of that from his family, he can't talk to me or he doesn't want to reveal his weakened state, I can only assume. I know one time I had a break down before our A and I wanted to talk to him but he didn't answer and afterwards I was glad he didn't get to hear me being upset.

 

I feel I should start grieving the loss of him because even though he hasn't told me any differently yet and in our last conversation we were still very much in the on position, I feel he's going to focus back on his family now. With all the religious posts and the "I love my family" going on his page, I don't see how he'd still want me and I think this might be the shake up he needed to realize his life isn't so bad that he didn't need me as a distraction after all. Unless of course after the dust settles and they all revert back to the way they were before.

[Scarlet2]

The dynamic in your affair must be pretty different than mine. It is NEVER a mistake to reach out with condolences.

 

When MM's brother dropped dead suddenly, MM called me immediately. We decided I would not go to the wake or funeral as I did not know his brother - but I let him know I would be there for him in any way I could.

 

I was with him the first time he visited his brother's grave (he took the death kind of hard). He often opens up to me about his feelings about this, and even dreams he has of his brother.

 

He also phoned me when he was collapsing from an infection, then from intensive care, and phoned me the minute his grandchild was born and wasn't even out of the delivery room yet.

 

He spent several weeks in hospital and I visited him almost every day.

 

I would think NOT KNOWING would be the hardest. The least he could do is text you saying really busy with family stuff etc.

 

The not knowing is indeed the hardest. He shields me from everything and he admits doing it on purpose. I've talked to him many times about how it makes me feel but he's adamant about keeping limited contact because he doesn't want his W finding out. He wants me to assume everything's okay until he says it's not. It's hard to do that when all the actions say otherwise.

[bentleychic]

I think this is the difficult aspect of the A situation here..."being there" for the person and being their "soft place to fall" seems very murky esp when being their soft place to land often involves not really being there in many respects and waiting for them to come to you and clue you in while like what Scarlet is doing, you're on the other end completely unaware of what is really happening with them and you're just guessing and driving yourself mad. It's not fair IMO to just be the soft place to fall, the comfort zone but not actively involved in other aspects of how they are going about their lives. That can be a dangerous place IMO.

 

I'll have to respectfully disagree. I'm not saying ALWAYS be the safe place to fall no matter what s/he does. I'm saying in some situations, I believe that reaching out is the right thing to do unless you're NC by their request or because you are trying to end it. This is a serious loss of someone close to him. I don't think it is EVER wrong to comfort someone that you love that has suffered such a close loss, whether you get a response back from them or not. The hope is to be somewhat of a comfort in a rough situation.

 

That's just me and how I handle things, though.

[MissBee]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. I'm not saying ALWAYS be the safe place to fall no matter what s/he does. I'm saying in some situations, I believe that reaching out is the right thing to do unless you're NC by their request or because you are trying to end it. This is a serious loss of someone close to him. I don't think it is EVER wrong to comfort someone that you love that has suffered such a close loss, whether you get a response back from them or not. The hope is to be somewhat of a comfort in a rough situation.

 

That's just me and how I handle things, though.

 

I wasn't disagreeing about her comforting him or saying that was wrong.

 

The aspect I was talking about was that "being there" as a soft landing and how in this case the confusing part for her is, unlike in a typical situation, she kind of has no idea how to be there, as she is not at all involved in what's going on and hasn't heard a peep from him. So she has to sit back wondering, guessing and worrying and has no clue when he'll ever get in touch. Did you read her posts about preparing herself for the worse because she feels this means he will invest in his family now? In such a situation, her specific situation, I don't think she should just be there waiting for him as a soft place...but they probably need to have a talk, if he ever reaches back out, about where to go from here as being in a relationship where every time a big event occurs or anything traumatic you are shut out is emotionally hurtful. Worse part is it's not like she thinks he is just sitting alone in a room but she is well aware that he is with his family and wife, and they are the ones "being there" while she is on the outside, hoping to support him but isn't even being acknowledged. So is sending a text to a man who didn't even think to share this with you (remember MM hasn't told her this) really considered "being there", is he really probably gonna gain that much from it, given that he himself doesn't seem concerned with telling her a thing? I dunno...

 

Even in my own A, NO WAY anything like this would have happened and I'd have heard it elsewhere or he would shut me out. I obviously wouldn't be able to be there in the same way his family is, but damn, at least he would send me a message letting me know what was happening.

 

I dunno, for me, I would feel so alienated and bad about my relationship if in a time like this I have to be iffing and butting about supporting the person I love mainly because THEY have shut me out and I also now have to wonder if they will ever reach out again or what. It's not a good position to be in. Just thinking about it makes me anxious.

Edited September 25, 2014 by MissBee

[gettingstronger]

She reached out once and he never responded. It buried in there some place in this thread. He did not respond. I say leave him be.

[whichwayisup]

Okay, I was just pointing out you were doing the same thing you were telling her not to do.

 

You are assuming he isn't thinking of her. That isn't known unless he has said that to you. He may not be, he may. It really doesn't matter. I wouldn't extrapolate assumptions or conclusions that aren't known. Just like the OP shouldn't do that.

 

Go back and read her other threads. This MM, her so called friend of 10 years she's been having an affair with for almost a year, has treated her horribly at times. He seems passive aggressive too.

 

He may or may not be thinking of her, only he knows. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't be worrying and wondering if I'm on his mind, sorry that's selfish thinking as right now it isn't about her, it's about him losing his father and coping with the grief and getting through the funeral and next bunch of weeks/months.

 

Their A is rocky at the best of times. She said they had a fight and the A (she thought anyway) was over.

[Scarlet2]

Go back and read her other threads. This MM, her so called friend of 10 years she's been having an affair with for almost a year, has treated her horribly at times. He seems passive aggressive too.

 

He may or may not be thinking of her, only he knows. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't be worrying and wondering if I'm on his mind, sorry that's selfish thinking as right now it isn't about her, it's about him losing his father and coping with the grief and getting through the funeral and next bunch of weeks/months.

 

Their A is rocky at the best of times. She said they had a fight and the A (she thought anyway) was over.

 

As I've said, the last time I spoke to him, the A was still on. And I agree, it has been rocky, mostly due to me trying to figure it out and adjust. It seems to be less rocky when he's in control of everything.

 

I know I'm the furthest thing from his mind right now but I can't help but think that maybe he feels his sin angered god and took his dad and now he wants to get better at not sinning. Is god vengeful like that? It was an accident, nothing he did in his entire life caused his dad to die. And why wasn't he thinking of god during our sin...

 

And because I've known him for 10 years and I've met some of his family and he always talked about me to them, I'm torn if I'm allowed to be at the celebration of life service or if he wants me to stay away. People keep asking me how he is because they know we are friends but I can't answer them because I don't know, he's not talking to me. I want to show my support and I can't and it's frustrating. If I text to ask, he's not going to respond. If I show up and he didn't want me there, is he going to blow up...

 

I'm continuing to keep quiet so as not to bother him. I reached out and now the ball is in his court. There might be an opportunity for me to run into him on Monday but I'm going to let it happen on it's own. If he seeks me out instead, that's good and if not, that's okay too, I'll understand. That will reinforce that I need to continue to grieve the loss of him and heal.

[whichwayisup]

As I've said, the last time I spoke to him, the A was still on.

 

How is your A still on if you feel this is going to happen?

I want to show my support and I can't and it's frustrating. If I text to ask, he's not going to respond. If I show up and he didn't want me there, is he going to blow up...

 

Walking on egg shells, not sure at all where you stand must be very unsettling.

It seems to be less rocky when he's in control of everything.

 

So if you rock the boat, things are rocky. If you allow him to be in control, all is good.

 

Do you see just how unhealthy this is?

 

Anyway, you sent the text, he knows you know about his dad. He hasn't replied. Sadly that says A LOT. Disrespectful to not even let you know if he is okay or to say thanks for thinking of me...

If he seeks me out instead, that's good and if not, that's okay too, I'll understand. That will reinforce that I need to continue to grieve the loss of him and heal.

 

Seems you don't know if your A is on or off.

[Scarlet2]

My MM surprised me. He actually came to my house unexpectedly on his way to church to let me know he wasn't ignoring me and I got all my questions answered and he kept apologizing to me. He looked so tired and his voice was rough. He just wanted to close his eyes and get some peace and quiet for a little bit while I held his hand. We are still on and he said I could go to the service but he said I might not want to because he knows I'm going to get upset if I see him upset and then people will wonder why I'm too upset...

[Scarlet2]

I went to the memorial which was more like a family get together with food and a slide show but no one was really saying anything about his dad. That was disappointing. I've always loved hearing about his dad's adventures, I would have liked to have heard more from his family.

 

The funeral and burial is where I know my MM will be the most upset but I can't go because of work. Anyway, I saw a lot of familiar faces but they don't know me and then I felt a little paranoid when his male relatives would look at me and I'm like do they know, why are they looking at me, are they going to ask him who I am?

 

While he was making his rounds to everybody, he hugged me a couple times, said he loved me when I was leaving; he's never said it before so I'm assuming love as in friendship/family love.

 

On the way out, his W and her sister were talking and said he's been having a rough time dealing with everything and then somehow someone mentioned her sister's ex husband was very aggravating, to which his W agreed that my MM is very aggravating too. She introduced me to her sister, then she hugged me and said it was good to see me and that I looked pretty. Imagine that...

[Got it]

I went to the memorial which was more like a family get together with food and a slide show but no one was really saying anything about his dad. That was disappointing. I've always loved hearing about his dad's adventures, I would have liked to have heard more from his family.

 

The funeral and burial is where I know my MM will be the most upset but I can't go because of work. Anyway, I saw a lot of familiar faces but they don't know me and then I felt a little paranoid when his male relatives would look at me and I'm like do they know, why are they looking at me, are they going to ask him who I am?

 

While he was making his rounds to everybody, he hugged me a couple times, said he loved me when I was leaving; he's never said it before so I'm assuming love as in friendship/family love.

 

On the way out, his W and her sister were talking and said he's been having a rough time dealing with everything and then somehow someone mentioned her sister's ex husband was very aggravating, to which his W agreed that my MM is very aggravating too. She introduced me to her sister, then she hugged me and said it was good to see me and that I looked pretty. Imagine that...

 

Scarlet, this is your decision to make but you are really dancing very close to the fire. I don't know your story on how well you know everyone but I would have probably bowed out of this level of involvement.

 

How are things today with you?

[gettingstronger]

On the way out, his W and her sister were talking and said he's been having a rough time dealing with everything and then somehow someone mentioned her sister's ex husband was very aggravating, to which his W agreed that my MM is very aggravating too. She introduced me to her sister, then she hugged me and said it was good to see me and that I looked pretty. Imagine that...

 

 

This is unfortunate- when the BS finds out about the A it is moments like this that will shatter her-moments like this that will make you appear heartless to those in your circle-

 

Step back for a minute and ask yourself what you would think about someone that did this-is this you, do you see yourself as someone who is capable of something so cruel and thoughtless- more important- is this who you want to be-

 

I think if you take a minute to see what this relationship does to you, you would think again about being part of it. Please, do what you can to ensure that you are protecting your integrity, your true self- eventually you will need to face up to these types of things and you need to be prepared-

[eye of the storm]

SMH, I can't believe you went to the funeral and the memorial and had the balls to hug his wife. It is unnecessarily vicious. My ExH and I have been split for over 4 years and I can still replay every time his OW pretended to be my friend. Every time I do that, it hurts. Once this gets out, and it will since you two are in each others pockets and the son knows, she will never be able to think about her father-in-law's passing without dealing with your memory.

 

Im not throwing stones at you because you are an OW, I am currently dating a MM. But I will say your actions were cruel and unfeeling.

 

I'm willing to admit this is a sore point for me.

Edited October 3, 2014 by eye of the storm

[whichwayisup]

I went to the memorial which was more like a family get together with food and a slide show but no one was really saying anything about his dad. That was disappointing. I've always loved hearing about his dad's adventures, I would have liked to have heard more from his family.

 

That's what the funeral will be for. Seems the memorial was low key.

 

The funeral and burial is where I know my MM will be the most upset but I can't go because of work.

 

Good. I don't mean that meanly but honestly, I really don't understand why you went to the memorial. That was totally inappropriate seeing as you don't know his father, you're not a friend to the family, and also, hugging MM's wife? Were you at least uncomfortable and feeling awkward or did you feel at ease? IF a time comes she finds out about the affair, that hug and you showing up to their family gathering/mem. service for her father in law, she is going to remember you and feel like you and MM made total fools of her.

[Scarlet2]

I wasn't going to go but a woman I knew was going and it would raise flags as to why I didn't go, on the outside everyone knows he and I are friends, so she and I went together. I told my MM the situation and he was okay with it.

 

The woman I went with hadn't seen his wife in years so she was constantly looking for her because she wanted to say hello. His wife was never around my MM at the memorial, didn't eat next to him, didn't stand next to him, never once walked up to check up on him the whole time I was there. When we would see her, she'd end up disappearing before the woman I was with could serpentine through the people to get to her.

 

She finally saw her on the way out. His wife reached out to hugged me first. I was fine with just a smile greeting. Was I supposed to say don't hug me? No, you just go with it.

 

I've met his father a few times. I've also been to a family gathering before too, although it was before it became a PA.

 

I didn't feel awkward at all because I believe in polygamy and also based on the things I've seen and heard, she's sad and unhappy but refuses to leave him because of the stigma due to her highly religious background. She puts him down, hates that he's overweight, calls him aggravating, throws it in his face that she makes more money than him, doesn't want to do anything with him. He's no saint either, I know he probably yells at her like he did to me the day we fought. But my point is, I would feel terrible if she actually loved and admired him more than I do, but she doesn't show that she does, therefore I do not feel as bad about it as I could.

 

Anyway, the current plan of action is to just leave him alone. I love him, I want to be with him, but he's not leaving and while he's grieving the loss of his dad, I'll be grieving the loss of him and probably our friendship too. If I change my mind, which I probably will because flip flopping is common, I will be putting my foot down on the things I will no longer tolerate, such as lack of calls and text. It's really not worth it if it's one sided and you're not getting your needs met and I will tell him as such if and when he approaches me again.

 

I keep reading how the OW causes the destruction of a family but I have a feeling the lack of the OW will still cause the destruction anyway. The bandaid and glue are gone, the cracks will continue to form.

[Scarlet2]

I'm worried about him and I'm anxious. It's been about ten days since I last saw him and I've been giving him his space but I caved and called him the other day because I needed to know how he's doing. He sounded very drained and numb. I didn't bring us up at all, I just wanted to know about him, but he still said we are still on, it's just going to take time and there's still a lot of stuff that has to get done, but he didn't elaborate on what stuff he was referring to and I didn't ask. I wanted to but if he wanted me to know he would have gone into detail on his own.

 

Apparently he's being irritable to his W, their pastor posted about it because he thinks it's funny but my MM doesn't think it's funny at all. And he's acting impulsive. Today he checked into church and six hours later he posted that he's with his W a thousand miles away in another state. He doesn't have any vacation or sick days left at work and he didn't mention anything about going anywhere when I talked to him and there are no relatives where they went. Even if he didn't want to tell me, he would still post about looking forward to going to such and such and he didn't this time so I feel it was an impulse. Is that good or bad during grief?

 

I feel so helpless that I can't do anything and a little hurt that he's not reaching out to me but on the other hand maybe it's a blessing in disguise. Just like his previous behavior has in a way prepared me for this absence.

 

I would like to hear from others about what happened if your MM was experiencing grief...

[whichwayisup]

Apparently he's being irritable to his W, their pastor posted about it because he thinks it's funny but my MM doesn't think it's funny at all

 

That pastor should be strung up and fired from the church. That's disgusting behaviour by someone who is heavily involved with the church. Enough said!

Today he checked into church and six hours later he posted that he's with his W a thousand miles away in another state. He doesn't have any vacation or sick days left at work and he didn't mention anything about going anywhere when I talked to him and there are no relatives where they went. Even if he didn't want to tell me, he would still post about looking forward to going to such and such and he didn't this time so I feel it was an impulse. Is that good or bad during grief?

 

This is wife's grief as it was her father that died, not his father. He is taking care of her. He took 'family time' from work, which is allowed when there is a death in the family.

 

He needs space, so continue to give it to him. He can't be there for you or be heavily involved in the affair right now. Sadly you have to accept things as they are or think about walking away. This doesn't sound like a man in the midst of divorcing his wife at all. I think he's telling you certain things you want to hear but really has no intention of changing anything.

[Scarlet2]

This is wife's grief as it was her father that died, not his father. He is taking care of her. He took 'family time' from work, which is allowed when there is a death in the family.

 

No, it was his father that died, not hers. His wife hasn't lost any parent yet whereas I've already lost both of mine and this is the first for him. She called him moody and he's getting annoyed by her.

 

His workplace only gives one bereavement day. He had a week of sick time that he already used earlier in the year because she seems to get sick every January and he always uses up those days because of her and he's already used his three weeks of vacation time for the two trips he went on this year. He's already been out for two weeks for the death, with no pay because he's out of paid time off and finally returned to work a full week but now he took off impulsively. His own daughter didn't even know they were going, it was that impulsive.

 

I know he's heartbroken and lost but is escapism helpful or destructive? Maybe it was just a day trip and he'll be back to work tomorrow but who spends money on plane tickets for just a day trip, it's odd behavior and I'm worried...

[ComingInHot]

And now ya'll are bringing God and church into this?

As other posters have said , you need to step back, this is dangerous grounds for your safety and rep (if you care about that). The way you are throwing yourself into their lives right now and with obvious lack of concern for His Wife and family, doesn't bode well for a happy ending for Anyone.

be safe*

[whichwayisup]

No, it was his father that died, not hers. His wife hasn't lost any parent yet whereas I've already lost both of mine and this is the first for him. She called him moody and he's getting annoyed by her.

 

His workplace only gives one bereavement day. He had a week of sick time that he already used earlier in the year because she seems to get sick every January and he always uses up those days because of her and he's already used his three weeks of vacation time for the two trips he went on this year. He's already been out for two weeks for the death, with no pay because he's out of paid time off and finally returned to work a full week but now he took off impulsively. His own daughter didn't even know they were going, it was that impulsive.

 

I know he's heartbroken and lost but is escapism helpful or destructive? Maybe it was just a day trip and he'll be back to work tomorrow but who spends money on plane tickets for just a day trip, it's odd behavior and I'm worried...

 

Okay, I must have read wrong earlier on your thread, I thought it was his father in law.

 

Let him have space and time to grieve the loss. This isn't about you at all, so don't go looking for issues since it seems there is none. People handle death differently, he is gonna do what he needs to do to get through it, so don't take it personally if he doesn't rely on you.

[letmoc]

Sounds like he is just busy living his life. Maybe you should do the same.

[Scarlet2]

He's still shutting me out but I managed to see him for a few seconds today. He still looks good to me even though you can tell he's worn out plus he was scruffy. Someone said he's aged a lot but I'm blind to it. His eyes lit up when he saw me and he got really close to me when I was walking by and for a split second I thought he was going to hug me in front of everyone but I kept walking while I greeted him. I wanted to hug him so bad but we don't do that in public so I didn't want to make him mad or uncomfortable. I paused around the corner though while he was saying why he was there and I was smiling at him and he was staring at me but then the spark left his eyes and he looked away and didn't want to say anything further so I went around the corner and continued going where I was going. When I came back, he was still there but didn't look up from his phone so I left him alone and went back to my desk.

 

This is hard. I want to be there for him but I want to give him his space but I keep thinking if I don't call or text, he's going to think I don't care but I have to stop calling and texting because he doesn't answer or respond, right? What are some reasons why he would shut me out but not others?

[eye of the storm]

Scarlet, my best guess is he is shutting you out because he may be reevaluating his life. When some people lose someone close it rocks their foundation.

 

For all we know, his dad might have abhorred cheaters and with his dad passing he is ashamed of his behavior. Or he and his wife may have found common ground and he has chosen her.

 

The problem with being in an A is that either party can walk at anytime and your only options are you can slide into another A, learn and not repeat, or become a bunny boiler.

 

I would leave him alone right now. He will come back or he won't. You have no control on which happens but by leaving him alone right now you may get out of it with a bit of your dignity left.

 

Being in an A can be tough and there are few upsides to it.

 

Good luck