Her [pre-] divorce affair vs my post split ONS and divorce R

[Hope Shimmers]

It looks like maybe it's your boundary that needs work.

 

You need to make yourself a priority.

 

We can assume at this point Lovin makes herself a priority. But you need to look out for yourself by knowing where you end and she begins.

 

Learn to enforce your healthy boundary. Lovin seems to be overstepping - she sold some of your stuff without that agreement? Lovin - stop doing those things. Always ask permission before doing anything. It's HIS stuff.

 

He has a right to understand his independence - from you.

 

It was crappy that you didn't support him at his competition. Why didn't you help him?

 

If he can't count on you to support him - then why would he be in this R?

 

When you have opportunities to redeem yourself Loving - why are you letting him down?

 

I have to agree with this. DKT3 deserves this from you Lovin.

 

In defense of Lovin, I think it's very easy to fall back into the roles of the marriage/relationship as it used to be, but now is the time to NOT do that, and to make a very conscious effort for change.

[lovinDKT3]

DKT's last post is why I have so much trouble with this situation. The way he speaks about her just make me feel horrible. I know I can't ask him to hate her, just thinking it feels immature. His views on relationships are so black and white, he says he did nothing wrong and doesn't have to dislike her because I do. He says he doesn't communicate with her only out of respect for me and what we are trying to rebuild. It may sound silly but it scares me. Makes me feel like one day he will wake up and think he wants her.

 

The thing about selling his stuff was a total misunderstanding and I told him I would go get the things back. We talked about what he would sell and what he would bring home or store. I called and told him the friend was interested in looking at the stuff he said ok. She loved everything and offered a decent price. When I called him to tell him the number he assumed I had already sold the stuff and said "ok, whatever do what you want". Miscommunication, I thought he was giving me the ok to sell, he thought I had already sold it.

[lovinDKT3]

I have to agree with this. DKT3 deserves this from you Lovin.

 

In defense of Lovin, I think it's very easy to fall back into the roles of the marriage/relationship as it used to be, but now is the time to NOT do that, and to make a very conscious effort for change.

 

DKT is far from a push over. In fact he can be down right stubborn. He has hard boundaries and you will know when you've cross one. I've learned this so I know just how far I can push, again not the most healthy dynamic.

 

Yes it is easy to just allow old habits. He moved back in fully last weekend and I've noticed that some things are like riding a bike. I think we both have to be mindful of this.

[MuddyFootprints]

Lovin', I get your insecurity. He has waffled. Maybe not directly with her, but he has admitted dragging his feet as far as committing completely to you.

 

I would feel terribly insecure, too.

 

Without the added pressure of carrying a new life into the dynamics

 

I'm going to address the princess thing here, too.

 

I had a 'thing' around the same time of dk's contest. I forgot something that was almost essential to the 'thing' I was doing. My husband is busy man and I can't be a priority. I improvised and made the best of the situation. He ain't no princess. Neither am I. Sometimes ****'s just gotta get done and that's the way it is. I made sure to plan better the next time.

[beach]

Loving - are you aware of how you participate?

 

Do you more often think of yourself and your feelings first or DK's feelings first?

 

Do you understand the way you participate affects him and his feelings?

[lovinDKT3]

Lovin', I get your insecurity. He has waffled. Maybe not directly with her, but he has admitted dragging his feet as far as committing completely to you.

 

I would feel terribly insecure, too.

 

Without the added pressure of carrying a new life into the dynamics

 

I'm going to address the princess thing here, too.

 

I had a 'thing' around the same time of dk's contest. I forgot something that was almost essential to the 'thing' I was doing. My husband is busy man and I can't be a priority. I improvised and made the best of the situation. He ain't no princess. Neither am I. Sometimes ****'s just gotta get done and that's the way it is. I made sure to plan better the next time.

DKT is a very black and white kind of guy and honestly can be cold. I've seen were people have crossed him and he goes totally dark, in fact he did it to me. I don't want that ever again, even if we can't make this work I still need him in my life. However, I demand that he make me a priority. I allowed him to no do that before my affair. This goes back to the days were he was doing the whole pro football thing all his attention was there, then when he didn't land on a team he turned all his attention towards work and being away. I asked for time, I begged and it just wasn't there. Now I demand it, if that makes me a "princess" then so be it. I'm not blaming him for my affair, but I can't live like we did before my affair. We both have different boundaries now its going to take getting use to.

[lovinDKT3]

Beach, yes I understand. What we have, as I stated in the post before, we have different boundaries now. In the marriage I begged, now I demand. I know its dangerous in terms of what he will accept since I've had the affair. Yet he tells me all the time that I haven't lost my voice because of the affair as to the direction this relationship goes. Its a fine line. We are both just trying to feel our way through this.

 

We have mostly good times now, but still abit of a roller coaster. Not as many lows, and so far we've been able to communicate through them.

[Buckeye2]

This is not to say that you are going to cheat. But to say Ive been clean all these years is no indication of what you might do tomorrow.

 

Fellini, I think what you’re trying to say is that past behavior isn’t an absolute 100% guarantee of future behavior. I agree with that, but your statement is false.

 

The whole idea of credit scores is that people that pay their bills will be more likely to pay them in the future.

 

States have pools for bad drivers where they force companies to insure them. If you’ve had a lot of traffic accidents you’re more likely to have another.

 

That’s because your driving habits tend to be worse than those people who don’t have accidents.

 

I’m a medical examiner in real life and I see people’s risky behavior catch up with them every day. Yes I might die tomorrow but those people are more likely to die than I am.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Buckeye2

[Spectre]

DKT's last post is why I have so much trouble with this situation. The way he speaks about her just make me feel horrible. I know I can't ask him to hate her, just thinking it feels immature. His views on relationships are so black and white, he says he did nothing wrong and doesn't have to dislike her because I do. He says he doesn't communicate with her only out of respect for me and what we are trying to rebuild. It may sound silly but it scares me. Makes me feel like one day he will wake up and think he wants her.

 

I get what you are feeling, but I have to ask you..why DO you have so much trouble with this situation? I get that you would not be thrilled to know he was with someone while you were apart, but to be fair..you did cause that. I am not trying to throw stones here, rather just wondering..why is it now bothering you? I just ask myself..do you realize how hard it is to forgive someone who cheated on you? To let them back into your heart? It's not easy..and it can actually be downright scary, but this guy was still willing to give you a chance and cut this woman(who I assume never cheated on him) out of his life just to make YOU happy.

 

I maybe think you do not get how hard that actually is..and you know your fear that he will wake up one day and want her? Well, I guarantee you he will be having the same fear about you..that you will wake up one day and decide to cheat on him again.

 

Like I said, I am not trying to make you feel bad, I am trying to point out..he could of chosen to be with this other woman, but he chose you over her..after everything you guys went through, he still chose you. I think that is what you need to hold onto. It is just..you know how hard it is for a guy to forgive cheating? Men and women really are different when it comes to this, but I don't think you realize just how much love it shows he has for you if he is willing to kick other women out of his life just for you. I just think you need to realize the ball was essentially in his court when it came to forgiving you for this, so if he wanted to be with this other woman then he would be. Just..some food for thought.

[beach]

DKT is a very black and white kind of guy and honestly can be cold. I've seen were people have crossed him and he goes totally dark, in fact he did it to me. I don't want that ever again, even if we can't make this work I still need him in my life. However, I demand that he make me a priority. I allowed him to no do that before my affair. This goes back to the days were he was doing the whole pro football thing all his attention was there, then when he didn't land on a team he turned all his attention towards work and being away. I asked for time, I begged and it just wasn't there. Now I demand it, if that makes me a "princess" then so be it. I'm not blaming him for my affair, but I can't live like we did before my affair. We both have different boundaries now its going to take getting use to.

 

I'll take a faithful man that's black and white! Especially one I respect.

 

It's that bloody "grey area" that allows folks to justify bad behavior.

 

 

I understand you have a voice now - and speak your truth. That's good!

 

But I'd like to ask how much you consider HIS feelings? And why did you let him down the other day when he needed you and you didn't communicate or help him out?

 

 

You're both supposed to be working at this TOGETHER - that's not possible when it's all about me, me, me!

 

Can you see a pattern in your posts that does seem that you are a bit entitled and spoiled?

 

I'm not being mean - just wondering if you could improve upon that by recognizing that it really isn't only about you/your feelings. Once a deficiency is acknowledged it's easier to be mindful enough to possibly change that about self.

 

You have a man who loves you - I think if you can give more - you will get more. It's just the way energy in the world works best if you're practicing healthy balance.

[lovinDKT3]

Spectre, I struggle because deep down I feel she is better for him. The selfish part of me just wants her gone. But I also feel he would be happier with her. I feel tainted, and not worthy of him. In the end its really my issue and there is nothing he can do to make that better. I caused him so much pain I wish I could take it all back.

 

Beach, I don't disagree with anything you wrote. As far as his deal a couple weeks ago, I simply got busy and lost track of time. I then rushed there as fast as I could. Why didn't I call? Honestly I thought I would make it. I fully understand where I went wrong, I thought I had lost him again. He was so angry, like nothing changed. I have spoke here about my go to behavior when he gets angry. I often hide behind being a brat. Its worked my entire life. Its clearly no way for a 40 year old mother of 2 1/2 kids to act. But it placates him. He would often laugh call me a brat and move on with the rest of his day. It doesn't work anymore. He left and I thought that was it.

 

I'm not there, its hard to break my habits. Oddly I feel myself falling back into those habits the closer we got. I got our MC ramped up to weekly again. He isn't sure about it which scares me, I don't want him to distance himself or start to become indifferent. I honestly feel he maybe going dark again. I'm scared.

[beach]

It's hard to break your habits? NO IT ISN'T!!!

 

Saying that is like saying you're going to cheat again since you find it hard to change your habits.

 

If you can't practice extreme contrary action and start thinking and doing for him - then there's no good reason to be together.

 

You do act bratty! Entitled and spoiled is just not attractive on anyone!

 

You CAN change YOURSELF! You seem to be destructive in this union. That is not one bit nice.

 

He's been so forgiving and a giver to you these past months. Yet you keep trying so hard to purposely ruin it.

 

IF you plan to remain unchanged just stop now and save him the pain and harm you keep causing him by waffling.

 

I really like both of you - but the harm you're causing is just uncalled for IF you INTEND to make this work.

 

What suggestions is your counselor giving you? Be specific! You've talked a lot about seeing this counselor but you haven't stated exactly what your DOING to change things.

 

This IS about him too - stop making all your thoughts and actions about you. The world does not revolve around you. If you think it does then be a princess all by your selfish self.

[Hope Shimmers]

Lovin, it was interesting to read your last few posts. So rarely do we get to hear both sides of the equation. It makes me wonder how differently we would sometimes reply to posters if we didn't just have one side.

 

Specifically, I could understand why you might have felt very frustrated trying to beg for time and attention in a situation where you weren't getting it. (No, not an excuse for an affair, but it does put a different perspective on why you made some decisions you now regret).

 

Spectre, I struggle because deep down I feel she is better for him. The selfish part of me just wants her gone. But I also feel he would be happier with her. I feel tainted, and not worthy of him. In the end its really my issue and there is nothing he can do to make that better. I caused him so much pain I wish I could take it all back.

 

You can't undo the past but you can make things as good as possible now. The fact is that there may be many women that DKT3 could bond with and be happy with if you were not in the picture (the same is true for you, and for all of us). You can never rid the world of all those people. But HE CHOSE YOU and that's the only thing that matters. So she is not 'better' for him. He would not be 'happier' with her or that's where he would be.

 

You say there is nothing you can do to fix how you feel - but there is. You need to trust him and believe him when he says it's you he wants, no matter how hard that is. Imagine how hard it is for him to trust you after you had an A, but that is what he is doing. So your part is to trust him and believe in him and in the two of you and be confident in it. Do it for him! And for your family. I guarantee that he will see that and it will reward you both over and over.

 

I often hide behind being a brat. Its worked my entire life. Its clearly no way for a 40 year old mother of 2 1/2 kids to act. But it placates him. He would often laugh call me a brat and move on with the rest of his day. It doesn't work anymore. He left and I thought that was it.

 

So now that you know it doesn't work, time for change. It's not easy but if you want it bad enough it can be done. You both can make the changes you need to make.

[lovinDKT3]

It's hard to break your habits? NO IT ISN'T!!!

 

Saying that is like saying you're going to cheat again since you find it hard to change your habits.

 

If you can't practice extreme contrary action and start thinking and doing for him - then there's no good reason to be together.

 

You do act bratty! Entitled and spoiled is just not attractive on anyone!

 

You CAN change YOURSELF! You seem to be destructive in this union. That is not one bit nice.

 

He's been so forgiving and a giver to you these past months. Yet you keep trying so hard to purposely ruin it.

 

IF you plan to remain unchanged just stop now and save him the pain and harm you keep causing him by waffling.

 

I really like both of you - but the harm you're causing is just uncalled for IF you INTEND to make this work.

 

What suggestions is your counselor giving you? Be specific! You've talked a lot about seeing this counselor but you haven't stated exactly what your DOING to change things.

 

This IS about him too - stop making all your thoughts and actions about you. The world does not revolve around you. If you think it does then be a princess all by your selfish self.

 

All I can say here is I'm not waffling, I'm 100% in this relationship. I'm far from perfect, maybe it doesn't seem like it but I'm trying. Maybe its not good enough, maybe I'm not good enough.

[lovinDKT3]

Lovin, it was interesting to read your last few posts. So rarely do we get to hear both sides of the equation. It makes me wonder how differently we would sometimes reply to posters if we didn't just have one side.

 

Specifically, I could understand why you might have felt very frustrated trying to beg for time and attention in a situation where you weren't getting it. (No, not an excuse for an affair, but it does put a different perspective on why you made some decisions you now regret).

 

 

 

You can't undo the past but you can make things as good as possible now. The fact is that there may be many women that DKT3 could bond with and be happy with if you were not in the picture (the same is true for you, and for all of us). You can never rid the world of all those people. But HE CHOSE YOU and that's the only thing that matters. So she is not 'better' for him. He would not be 'happier' with her or that's where he would be.

 

You say there is nothing you can do to fix how you feel - but there is. You need to trust him and believe him when he says it's you he wants, no matter how hard that is. Imagine how hard it is for him to trust you after you had an A, but that is what he is doing. So your part is to trust him and believe in him and in the two of you and be confident in it. Do it for him! And for your family. I guarantee that he will see that and it will reward you both over and over.

 

 

 

So now that you know it doesn't work, time for change. It's not easy but if you want it bad enough it can be done. You both can make the changes you need to make.

Thank you Hope.

 

I do trust him, I do believe him.

 

Gotta run, kids first day of school.

[hotgurl]

Spectre, I struggle because deep down I feel she is better for him. The selfish part of me just wants her gone. But I also feel he would be happier with her. I feel tainted, and not worthy of him. In the end its really my issue and there is nothing he can do to make that better. I caused him so much pain I wish I could take it all back.

 

Beach, I don't disagree with anything you wrote. As far as his deal a couple weeks ago, I simply got busy and lost track of time. I then rushed there as fast as I could. Why didn't I call? Honestly I thought I would make it. I fully understand where I went wrong, I thought I had lost him again. He was so angry, like nothing changed. I have spoke here about my go to behavior when he gets angry. I often hide behind being a brat. Its worked my entire life. Its clearly no way for a 40 year old mother of 2 1/2 kids to act. But it placates him. He would often laugh call me a brat and move on with the rest of his day. It doesn't work anymore. He left and I thought that was it.

 

I'm not there, its hard to break my habits. Oddly I feel myself falling back into those habits the closer we got. I got our MC ramped up to weekly again. He isn't sure about it which scares me, I don't want him to distance himself or start to become indifferent. I honestly feel he maybe going dark again. I'm scared.

 

Frankly these are just excuses and bad ones at that. You lost track of time you thought he was ok selling his stuff. you need to be validated, you need to be told how you are so much better than his ex over and over again.

 

The I lost track of time bit really peeves me off because I hate people being late etc.. If it was important to you you would have made time period.

 

You expect him to make you a priority but you are not making him a priority. You are making you own insecurities and needs a priority over him.

[DKT3]

Frankly these are just excuses and bad ones at that. You lost track of time you thought he was ok selling his stuff. you need to be validated, you need to be told how you are so much better than his ex over and over again.

 

The I lost track of time bit really peeves me off because I hate people being late etc.. If it was important to you you would have made time period.

 

You expect him to make you a priority but you are not making him a priority. You are making you own insecurities and needs a priority over him.

 

This has become hard for me to read, on one hand I want to step in and protect her, explain all the reasons I feel she isn't anywhere near the selfish spoiled woman she is coming off to some as. On the other hand, those are the actions by me, that has fueled the way she acts.

[beach]

Your insecurities are ruining the chances of this going well.

 

Your inaction to change your own perspective is adding to the issues YOU have.

 

YOU can change those things for yourself.

 

Get MORE help! He will never be able to provide you with that - it comes from WITHIN.

 

It's a difficult scene living with a person who is terribly insecure yet has feelings of entitlement.

 

But this deficiency is on you to fix about yourself - it's not his to repair that for you.

 

IF you make him a top priority you also need to begin DOING things that show him he's not on your back burner. He needs to be able "to depend on you" for little things and big things. Obviously, you dropped the ball on the recent event he had when he needed your help. What have you done about that? How have you repaired that damage you've caused? It makes any person not trust that you will be trustworthy to support in times of need.

 

 

Are your actions all about you or all about DK?

 

How much effort do you spend changing the way you DO things? It must be completely different than your past behavior in order to get a different (improved) result.

 

What are you WILLING to change about yourself to improve the relationship?

[ForeverTainted]

Such a big important event he forgot his own suace thus placing the responsibility on his pregnant working girlfriend who has pregnancy brain to arrive on time. He made a mistake forgetting th sauce and she made a mistake getting there on time. Of course everyone sees her failings more clearly because she is the WS. She needs to step up to the plate and sacrifice herself. And the selling of stuff is a totally understandable miscomunication. Not a selfish or thoughtless act pinned ona WS.

 

Loving, you should remain at the bottom because you cheated five years ago, allowed yourself to be a good shag without commitment and didn't stop what you were doing to get sauce to him after he forgot.

 

I do think loving you are spoiled. But I don't think DK is a saint or totally a victim in all this current stuff either.

[DKT3]

Such a big important event he forgot his own suace thus placing the responsibility on his pregnant working girlfriend who has pregnancy brain to arrive on time. He made a mistake forgetting th sauce and she made a mistake getting there on time. Of course everyone sees her failings more clearly because she is the WS. She needs to step up to the plate and sacrifice herself. And the selling of stuff is a totally understandable miscomunication. Not a selfish or thoughtless act pinned ona WS.

 

Loving, you should remain at the bottom because you cheated five years ago, allowed yourself to be a good shag without commitment and didn't stop what you were doing to get sauce to him after he forgot.

 

I do think loving you are spoiled. But I don't think DK is a saint or totally a victim in all this current stuff either.

It became her responsibilty when she said she would do it, thus taking away my need to seek another option. Those are the kinds of excuses I've made for her over the last near 25 years.

 

I'm honestly offended by the last part.

[MuddyFootprints]

Please take this in the spirit I intend it...

 

Both of you seem to have a tendency to get your crinoline in a knot.

 

As much as most of us are rooting for your reconciliation, I am questioning whether we are being a help or being a hindrance to your efforts.

 

I truly hope you can learn to side with each other.

 

My best wishes to you both.

[merrmeade]

I'm going to read all the pages to this thread later but, having read the first page discussion about WS rights to full disclosure of an A (ONS?) that occurred following D - I want to say one thing in case I forget:

 

First, just please allow this little vent -

 

What utter nonsense! Just what is all that legal-sounding back-and-forth from actual BSs who have been there and done that? And the former BS himself making it like courtroom evidence to be dissected?! Harrumph.

 

Come on! You're married. You've recommitted, yes, been through whatever but marriage is one thing. One. It's not like there are outside rules. It's whatever she and you NEED. It's full transparency, isn't it?

 

Later....

[Hope Shimmers]

I'm going to read all the pages to this thread later but, having read the first page discussion about WS rights to full disclosure of an A (ONS?) that occurred following D - I want to say one thing in case I forget:

 

First, just please allow this little vent -

 

What utter nonsense! Just what is all that legal-sounding back-and-forth from actual BSs who have been there and done that? And the former BS himself making it like courtroom evidence to be dissected?! Harrumph.

 

Come on! You're married. You've recommitted, yes, been through whatever but marriage is one thing. One. It's not like there are outside rules. It's whatever she and you NEED. It's full transparency, isn't it?

 

Later....

 

They aren't married. They divorced several years ago.

[DKT3]

I'm going to read all the pages to this thread later but, having read the first page discussion about WS rights to full disclosure of an A (ONS?) that occurred following D - I want to say one thing in case I forget:

 

First, just please allow this little vent -

 

What utter nonsense! Just what is all that legal-sounding back-and-forth from actual BSs who have been there and done that? And the former BS himself making it like courtroom evidence to be dissected?! Harrumph.

 

Come on! You're married. You've recommitted, yes, been through whatever but marriage is one thing. One. It's not like there are outside rules. It's whatever she and you NEED. It's full transparency, isn't it?

 

Later....

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding your point here. I had no affair, I divorced my wife and a year later started another relationship.

 

The rest of this makes no sense to me.

[beach]

Your insecurities are ruining the chances of this going well.

 

Your inaction to change your own perspective is adding to the issues YOU have.

 

YOU can change those things for yourself.

 

Get MORE help! He will never be able to provide you with that - it comes from WITHIN.

 

It's a difficult scene living with a person who is terribly insecure yet has feelings of entitlement.

 

But this deficiency is on you to fix about yourself - it's not his to repair that for you.

 

IF you make him a top priority you also need to begin DOING things that show him he's not on your back burner. He needs to be able "to depend on you" for little things and big things. Obviously, you dropped the ball on the recent event he had when he needed your help. What have you done about that? How have you repaired that damage you've caused? It makes any person not trust that you will be trustworthy to support in times of need.

 

 

Are your actions all about you or all about DK?

 

How much effort do you spend changing the way you DO things? It must be completely different than your past behavior in order to get a different (improved) result.

 

What are you WILLING to change about yourself to improve the relationship?

 

I came back to see if any questions were answered... But none so far...