Her [pre-] divorce affair vs my post split ONS and divorce R

[MuddyFootprints]

So, are you in or are you out?

[No Limit]

You know, this is actually the first time I'm looking into this thread because my personal belief is that second runs are pointless, but by all means don't just say that every kid living without financial pressured circumstances will turn out to be a selfish brat.

 

In the end her true colors will come out, good or bad, and I suspect that old habits in the way she treats you - unconscious or not - will reappear.

And those don't come from the pregnancy.

 

Not the reconciliation-fan but since there's a child on the way that will be dragged into this... good luck.

 

I doubt I would ever have to worry about cheating

 

Again, no offense to "lovin", but nothing is impossible.

Edited July 29, 2014 by No Limit

[ForeverTainted]

yes and I understand this.

 

I disagree about the intimacy. Its not so much about sharing the information, as it is that she doesn't have the right to the information.

 

I never said she had the right.

 

I said I would be deeply hurt. Everytime my husband would say "none of your business" it would feel like a knife in my heart. And him decideing what I could or couldn't handle would make me feel like he was treating me as a child.

 

Honestly, you BOTH sound very selfish and spoiled and bad at conflict resolution and communication. You over react at times and she deflects instead of takig responsibility and it goes vice versa.

 

This was really a petty issue but both of you blew it completely out of proportion. You want to throw in the towel and she wants to stay threatened by your ex girlfriend.

 

Take a break like any dating couple would. This pregnancy and all the issues that and then a newborn bring is not helping at all.

 

Selling your stuff was way over the line and I hope she apologized profusely for that one.

[DKT3]

So, are you in or are you out?

IN...just having a bad spell.

[DKT3]

You know, this is actually the first time I'm looking into this thread because my personal belief is that second runs are pointless, but by all means don't just say that every kid living without financial pressured circumstances will turn out to be a selfish brat.

 

In the end her true colors will come out, good or bad, and I suspect that old habits in the way she treats you - unconscious or not - will reappear.

And those don't come from the pregnancy.

 

Not the reconciliation-fan but since there's a child on the way that will be dragged into this... good luck.

 

 

 

Again, no offense to "lovin", but nothing is impossible.

just explaining the perfect storm to produce a spoiled woman. Parents tried for over a decade to have kids, once Lovin and her sister come along later in life (mid 40's) their parents did and gave them everything. Couple that with watching my own father spoil my mother for my entire life its the example I had. I don't deny I've allowed this in the past.

[Hope Shimmers]

Either you are in with both feet or you're not. This isn't about the infidelity anymore.

 

I don't understand this at all. I thought reconciliation was a process, not necessarily a "given". Why does he have to know at the very beginning of it if he's in or out? I understand the need to give 100%, and that means being fully invested in it, but if someone has questions or reservations along the way how does that make them "not in with both feet"?

 

Also, how can it possibly NOT be about the affair, at least in part? That's why they divorced in the first place. Of course it's about the affair and re-establishing trust and a new and better relationship. Am I missing something?

 

I'm not sure how anyone can question my commitment to Lovin and our relationship.

 

Totally agree. You've gone above and beyond in my opinion.

 

Another example happened about two weeks ago when she sold most of the stuff in my condo to a friend who was just divorced without telling me. Neither is a big deal, however they are signs when lumped together.

 

This, to me, is in fact a HUGE deal (sorry Lovin'). She sold your things (YOUR things?) that were yours during the divorced period without telling you? I would never dream of doing that in her shoes... I would be furious. Not trying to further complicate anything, but I honestly think this is a huge red flag. After living by yourself all those years you are naturally going to be less tolerant of someone not respecting you that way.

[DKT3]

I don't understand this at all. I thought reconciliation was a process, not necessarily a "given". Why does he have to know at the very beginning of it if he's in or out? I understand the need to give 100%, and that means being fully invested in it, but if someone has questions or reservations along the way how does that make them "not in with both feet"?

 

Also, how can it possibly NOT be about the affair, at least in part? That's why they divorced in the first place. Of course it's about the affair and re-establishing trust and a new and better relationship. Am I missing something?

 

 

 

Totally agree. You've gone above and beyond in my opinion.

 

 

 

This, to me, is in fact a HUGE deal (sorry Lovin'). She sold your things (YOUR things?) that were yours during the divorced period without telling you? I would never dream of doing that in her shoes... I would be furious. Not trying to further complicate anything, but I honestly think this is a huge red flag. After living by yourself all those years you are naturally going to be less tolerant of someone not respecting you that way.

Yeah it was pretty messed up. When I asked her why she said you was trying to help me out and that we had talked about selling l a lot of the stuff...TALKED, that's all. I didn't want to sell some of the stuff. She thought she was doing something great because she got a couple hundred more then I said it was worth. That's because she sold stuff I didn't include.

[bigman1]

Apart from the whole details from your non affair situation, it sounds like routine husband and wife crap with a little pregnancy hormones thrown in for good measure.

 

Someone once told me before I got married that his wife was the one person who made him the happiest and the angriest. I thought it odd, but I can say the same thing. Other folks can annoy me, but my wife can really piss me off. She does the same sh*t that I have been asking her not to do for years. Thing is, I have been doing the same sh*t she asked me not to do, as well. We have both made changes, but that is life with another person. New crap annoys you, old crap annoys you, new old crap annoys you. They keep doing the same crap, etc. She also makes me happy.

 

That is the joy of marriage. Sounds to me like you and lovin' are getting into that groove. Of course, there was the whole cheating thing and the "princess" mentality, but that is part of her deal. She can try to change it, (the princess thing, I accept that the cheating part is gone) but I doubt that she is going to because that is in her psychological DNA. ITs not a bad thing, its just a Lovin' thing. I identify with DKT and I can tell you, guys in who act like we do are also pains in the azz despite our innate awesomeness.

 

Whereas before you were cool with this, now you have had time to get unaccustomed to it. The struggle is getting back used to it, cause its never going to change. Not a bad thing, just an individual thing. There are no perfect people, just people with imperfections that you find peace with. The struggle is real. Keep on keeping on.

Edited July 29, 2014 by bigman1
clarity

[Hope Shimmers]

Apart from the whole details from your non affair situation, it sounds like routine husband and wife crap with a little pregnancy hormones thrown in for good measure.

 

Someone once told me before I got married that his wife was the one person who made him the happiest and the angriest. I thought it odd, but I can say the same thing. Other folks can annoy me, but my wife can really piss me off. She does the same sh*t that I have been asking her not to do for years. Thing is, I have been doing the same sh*t she asked me not to do, as well. We have both made changes, but that is life with another person. New crap annoys you, old crap annoys you, new old crap annoys you. They keep doing the same crap, etc. She also makes me happy.

 

That is the joy of marriage. Sounds to me like you and lovin' are getting into that groove. Of course, there was the whole cheating thing and the "princess" mentality, but that is part of her deal. She can try to change it, (the princess thing, I accept that the cheating part is gone) but I doubt that she is going to because that is in her psychological DNA. ITs not a bad thing, its just a Lovin' thing. I identify with DKT and I can tell you, guys in who act like we do are also pains in the azz despite our innate awesomeness.

 

Whereas before you were cool with this, now you have had time to get unaccustomed to it. The struggle is getting back used to it, cause its never going to change. Not a bad thing, just an individual thing. There are no perfect people, just people with imperfections that you find peace with. The struggle is real. Keep on keeping on.

 

I guess I could see all that if they were married. Except they aren't. Seems to me that now (building the reconciliation) would be the best time to be respectful and show change to the other.

 

But I can see that certain things may never change and they just have to be dealt with (or not). Speaking personally, I'm independent enough at this stage of my life that someone selling my stuff without telling me would anger me. Maybe if it were done by my spouse I would deal with it better.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Hope Shimmers
spelling

[DKT3]

Apart from the whole details from your non affair situation, it sounds like routine husband and wife crap with a little pregnancy hormones thrown in for good measure.

 

Someone once told me before I got married that his wife was the one person who made him the happiest and the angriest. I thought it odd, but I can say the same thing. Other folks can annoy me, but my wife can really piss me off. She does the same sh*t that I have been asking her not to do for years. Thing is, I have been doing the same sh*t she asked me not to do, as well. We have both made changes, but that is life with another person. New crap annoys you, old crap annoys you, new old crap annoys you. They keep doing the same crap, etc. She also makes me happy.

 

That is the joy of marriage. Sounds to me like you and lovin' are getting into that groove. Of course, there was the whole cheating thing and the "princess" mentality, but that is part of her deal. She can try to change it, (the princess thing, I accept that the cheating part is gone) but I doubt that she is going to because that is in her psychological DNA. ITs not a bad thing, its just a Lovin' thing. I identify with DKT and I can tell you, guys in who act like we do are also pains in the azz despite our innate awesomeness.

 

Whereas before you were cool with this, now you have had time to get unaccustomed to it. The struggle is getting back used to it, cause its never going to change. Not a bad thing, just an individual thing. There are no perfect people, just people with imperfections that you find peace with. The struggle is real. Keep on keeping on.

Funny you say princess, because I've called her princess D for over 20 years.

 

And yes I'm an a$$.

 

I had a horrible few days, I felt on edge and I'm not really sure why. But I'm better this morning. We talked last night and it was productive.

[Bittersweetie]

In regards to your specific situation, I wonder if the timelines are different for recovery and reconciliation being separate? I'm sorry I can't remember specific times, but you've been divorced for 5 years, but only back together for maybe 1? "They" say that it takes 2-5 years to move through infidelity. And if a couple is reconciling, usually the reconciliation and recovery work is simultaneous. I just wonder if the fact that you are reconciling later, after recovery...means that issues you each had already worked through are re-emerging, so you have to work through them again, together. I'm not sure if what I'm trying to say makes sense...

 

I'm glad you're feeling a bit better today DKT3.

 

New crap annoys you, old crap annoys you, new old crap annoys you.

 

Oh Bigman, you totally summed up a long term relationship! That made me laugh. Thank you.

[DKT3]

In regards to your specific situation, I wonder if the timelines are different for recovery and reconciliation being separate? I'm sorry I can't remember specific times, but you've been divorced for 5 years, but only back together for maybe 1? "They" say that it takes 2-5 years to move through infidelity. And if a couple is reconciling, usually the reconciliation and recovery work is simultaneous. I just wonder if the fact that you are reconciling later, after recovery...means that issues you each had already worked through are re-emerging, so you have to work through them again, together. I'm not sure if what I'm trying to say makes sense...

 

I'm glad you're feeling a bit better today DKT3.

 

 

 

Oh Bigman, you totally summed up a long term relationship! That made me laugh. Thank you.

we were divorced almost six years ago. After I left we still talked a lot, but once we were divorced we only communicated via text and email and that was only about the kids anything else I would ignore. During that year and a half after I maybe said 25 words to her. After a years I got into the relationship with work girl, during that time I missed lovin like crazy. I still don't understand that. I couldn't commit to or meet the expectations of the new woman because of the feeling I had for lovin I ended that relationship, sort of (remained sexually active from time to time NSA). At about that time Lovin and I started to spend "family" time together for the kids. Soon it was just her and I and I also started a FWB/NSA sexual relationship with her. It was wrong simple because she wanted us, and honestly I didn't. I enjoyed spending time with her but I wouldn't risk anything more. That dynamic lasted about two, two and a half years. Hiding it from the kids, family, and friends. It was like an affair.

 

I believe now that it makes this harder. For all that time we only got the best of one another. She started pushing me to give of the other women. There were still three others that were mostly sexual. Late in 2013 I cut all contact with all but work girl who had moved to Chicago. I had heard from her since between thanksgiving and christmas of 2013 until the 4th of july. About mid january we started to work towards being together again.

 

So really we were only apart about 18 months.

[revelations]

DKT3,

I kind of figured that something like this would happen sooner or later. The one thing that most cheaters hate more than anything else is to feel like they were cheated on. Guess what, lovin probably feels like she has been cheated on. Now we all know that this is not reality and that you went out and got laid after serving lovin. However lovin is caught up with you being with other women, yet at the same time knowing that she is the sole cause of it. So now she is trying to justify her position that sense your back together that you should not have been with those other women.

 

Truth is that lovin does not have a leg to stand on when it comes to the other women you were with. She is not entitled to know a damn thing about them or what you have done with them. Just like you having to live with the fact that lovin chose another man over you for a length of time, she has to live with that you loved other women also and guilt free. Now myself when I am in a relationship with a woman I do not keep in touch with previous lovers. However I do this out of respect and so that I don't give reason for my current lover to be jealous. However I never went into detail about what I have done with other lovers with the exception of reassuring the current lover that I was not giving myself any less to them.

 

If you don't feel comfortable with telling lovin the details then don't. She has no real right to know. I would explain to her that these women were during the time of being divorced and such and that the divorce was the result of lovin's actions. Lovin needs to know that she is the one who cast you aside for another man and when that happened other women picked you up. Lovin made a major mistake and one of the repercussions on that is she has to live with the fact that you enjoyed other women. Now what information you choose to give her about the other women is up to you. However in my book she has no right to any of that information.

[DKT3]

DKT3,

I kind of figured that something like this would happen sooner or later. The one thing that most cheaters hate more than anything else is to feel like they were cheated on. Guess what, lovin probably feels like she has been cheated on. Now we all know that this is not reality and that you went out and got laid after serving lovin. However lovin is caught up with you being with other women, yet at the same time knowing that she is the sole cause of it. So now she is trying to justify her position that sense your back together that you should not have been with those other women.

 

Truth is that lovin does not have a leg to stand on when it comes to the other women you were with. She is not entitled to know a damn thing about them or what you have done with them. Just like you having to live with the fact that lovin chose another man over you for a length of time, she has to live with that you loved other women also and guilt free. Now myself when I am in a relationship with a woman I do not keep in touch with previous lovers. However I do this out of respect and so that I don't give reason for my current lover to be jealous. However I never went into detail about what I have done with other lovers with the exception of reassuring the current lover that I was not giving myself any less to them.

 

If you don't feel comfortable with telling lovin the details then don't. She has no real right to know. I would explain to her that these women were during the time of being divorced and such and that the divorce was the result of lovin's actions. Lovin needs to know that she is the one who cast you aside for another man and when that happened other women picked you up. Lovin made a major mistake and one of the repercussions on that is she has to live with the fact that you enjoyed other women. Now what information you choose to give her about the other women is up to you. However in my book she has no right to any of that information.

 

She doesn't have issues with the others, just the one. These last few weeks I have been trying to see things from her POV as far as that relationship goes. I guess I can kinda see her point. This was a woman that she knew wanted me for a long time, she voiced her thoughts on the matter and warned me of her motives. I get it, from her veiw I left the marriage without really fighting to make it work, went dark on her and started a relationship with what she seen as a rival. If the roles where reversed I like most would assume that the two were involve before they admitted. Its not the case, but I can see how she got there.

 

As far as the details of that past relationship, I see both sides of the debate. I get how it could hinder us going foward if she feels I'm not being totally open with her. On the flipside I honestly feel its none of her business. It happened outside the scope of both the marriage and this current relationship, just as its none of my business what she did during that time and I have told her more then once when she tried to tell me. A poster suggested that he felt Lovin was not being honest about not seeing anyone during that time. I reply, "I don't care if she was or wasn't its her life and at that point she owed me nothing outside of being a great mother to the kids"

[woinlove]

As far as the details of that past relationship, I see both sides of the debate. I get how it could hinder us going foward if she feels I'm not being totally open with her. On the flipside I honestly feel its none of her business. It happened outside the scope of both the marriage and this current relationship, just as its none of my business what she did during that time and I have told her more then once when she tried to tell me.

 

Do you feel it's none of her business as a matter of principle or does talking about other relationships you two have been involved in make you uncomfortable? For me, I don't think anything that involves me, that is not bound by confidentiality (as some of our work is) and that interests my husband is none of his business, whether it was before we were married or not. My H feels the same way so there is no conflict on this.

 

For you, it seems you and your wife have different views on what is none of each other's business and not being open causes your wife to feel insecure and doubtful whereas being open would perhaps cause you embarrassment and discomfort or perhaps anger at having to violate your principle, or some other negative effect. Perhaps if you explain fully to your wife how it would make you feel discussing it, she would understand better.

 

eta - sorry, I should have said ex-wife or Lovin

Edited August 8, 2014 by woinlove

[DKT3]

Do you feel it's none of her business as a matter of principle or does talking about other relationships you two have been involved in make you uncomfortable? For me, I don't think anything that involves me, that is not bound by confidentiality (as some of our work is) and that interests my husband is none of his business, whether it was before we were married or not. My H feels the same way so there is no conflict on this.

 

For you, it seems you and your wife have different views on what is none of each other's business and not being open causes your wife to feel insecure and doubtful whereas being open would perhaps cause you embarrassment and discomfort or perhaps anger at having to violate your principle, or some other negative effect. Perhaps if you explain fully to your wife how it would make you feel discussing it, she would understand better.

 

eta - sorry, I should have said ex-wife or Lovin

For the record I have answered most of her questions.

 

No, its not a matter of comfort. I have always been open and honest with her. I don't do well with keeping either secrets or hiding my emotions. Yet its not totally about principle. The way I see it divorce means OVER, our relationship was done and as such she has, in my opinion, no right to ask for that information. If she wanted all knowledge of what I was doing then she should have remained faithful.

 

She never got involved with anyone else after the divorce and thinks because she offered that information (more like throwing it in my face) that I should also want to share the information.

 

I guess my issue here is, I feel that she is only really looking to do two things 1) fish for me to tell her she means more to me(which I felt I already proved). 2) prove that that relationship overlapped our divorce.

 

Oddly enough she has little interest in the ONS I had after I moved out but before the divorce. Those I feel our more her business then a realtionship that start 1 year post divorce.

[drifter777]

For the record I have answered most of her questions.

 

No, its not a matter of comfort. I have always been open and honest with her. I don't do well with keeping either secrets or hiding my emotions. Yet its not totally about principle. The way I see it divorce means OVER, our relationship was done and as such she has, in my opinion, no right to ask for that information. If she wanted all knowledge of what I was doing then she should have remained faithful.

 

She never got involved with anyone else after the divorce and thinks because she offered that information (more like throwing it in my face) that I should also want to share the information.

 

I guess my issue here is, I feel that she is only really looking to do two things 1) fish for me to tell her she means more to me(which I felt I already proved). 2) prove that that relationship overlapped our divorce.

 

Oddly enough she has little interest in the ONS I had after I moved out but before the divorce. Those I feel our more her business then a realtionship that start 1 year post divorce.

I may not understand your decision to try reconciliation but I respect it. In that vein I think the text you got from exgf on the 4th of July puts some of this into a different context. That would be scary to me and I'd want a lot of reassurance that the relationship was truly over. That that you were completely committed to trying to make our new relationship work. In other words, I would be insecure too.

[woinlove]

For the record I have answered most of her questions.

 

No, its not a matter of comfort. I have always been open and honest with her. I don't do well with keeping either secrets or hiding my emotions. Yet its not totally about principle. The way I see it divorce means OVER, our relationship was done and as such she has, in my opinion, no right to ask for that information. If she wanted all knowledge of what I was doing then she should have remained faithful.

 

She never got involved with anyone else after the divorce and thinks because she offered that information (more like throwing it in my face) that I should also want to share the information.

 

I guess my issue here is, I feel that she is only really looking to do two things 1) fish for me to tell her she means more to me(which I felt I already proved). 2) prove that that relationship overlapped our divorce.

 

Oddly enough she has little interest in the ONS I had after I moved out but before the divorce. Those I feel our more her business then a realtionship that start 1 year post divorce.

 

Thanks for explaining more. My outsider view from what you write is that you are still affected by her betrayal of you, which is completely understandable, and this is impacting on how you two are dealing with this conflict about sharing information. No doubt lovin' is also still affected by betraying you and what you see as her throwing it in your face may be her trying to show herself worthy again. Fishing for you to tell her she means more to you suggests an insecurity.

 

As to her possibly wanting to prove the relationship overlapped - maybe she feels that way or maybe she doesn't. Or it could be a fear of hers that she can't put to rest yet, in which case, talking about what really happened could alleviate her fear.

 

Personally, I would lean toward rather than away from openness.

[whatatangledweb]

Have you two thought about going to MC or couples therapy? I'm not big on therapy but it does work for many couples.

 

I see you both doing bad habits from your marriage now. You said you would make decisions for her, deciding what was best for her. Which is part of the reason you didn't want to answer her originally. She acts like a spoiled brat (her words not mine) to get her way. These habits need to be minimized .

 

I can see both your sides. You feel as though she is treating you as though you cheated. Which to me would be insulting. What you did while divorced and alone has nothing to do with her. You didn't think you would be back with her. She wanted you back the whole time. She knows you were with several woman. I think she is afraid in some ways that you still carry a torch for the work GF. A woman she feared was after you while you were married to her. To her she does seem like an OW. Not because you cheated but because this woman wanted you while you were married. For your wife her biggest hope has come true..you came back to her. Yet she still fears she may not be enough for you. That you may decide the work GF was the one.

 

To you that may sound unreasonable but I do see her side and in her place I would feel that way. Just as I would feel like you do if I were in your shoes.

 

How do you get past this issue? Talking about it does not seem to be helping. That is why I suggested a neutral person such as a therapist to work through it.

 

I believe in the two of you and I hope this can be resolved in a way that both of you can accept.

[lovinDKT3]

Have you two thought about going to MC or couples therapy? I'm not big on therapy but it does work for many couples.

 

I see you both doing bad habits from your marriage now. You said you would make decisions for her, deciding what was best for her. Which is part of the reason you didn't want to answer her originally. She acts like a spoiled brat (her words not mine) to get her way. These habits need to be minimized .

 

I can see both your sides. You feel as though she is treating you as though you cheated. Which to me would be insulting. What you did while divorced and alone has nothing to do with her. You didn't think you would be back with her. She wanted you back the whole time. She knows you were with several woman. I think she is afraid in some ways that you still carry a torch for the work GF. A woman she feared was after you while you were married to her. To her she does seem like an OW. Not because you cheated but because this woman wanted you while you were married. For your wife her biggest hope has come true..you came back to her. Yet she still fears she may not be enough for you. That you may decide the work GF was the one.

 

To you that may sound unreasonable but I do see her side and in her place I would feel that way. Just as I would feel like you do if I were in your shoes.

 

How do you get past this issue? Talking about it does not seem to be helping. That is why I suggested a neutral person such as a therapist to work through it.

 

I believe in the two of you and I hope this can be resolved in a way that both of you can accept.

We are in MC several times a month.

 

Yes, I do sometimes feel like she was a better match and comes with less baggage (mainly cheatng), a body that hasn't had kids and 10 years younger. I know that he ended that relationship, and had no reason to do unless he wanted to. However, she waited in the wings for several years at her chance with him I see no reason why she isn't doing so now. It just feels like she is always around even being thousands of miles away. The 4th of July messages proves that. According to him they lost contact somewhere between thanksgiving and chirstmas yet here she is still fishing. I don't know, I know its my issue and he has giving to reason for me to feel this way.

[fellini]

I used to think too, that issues about relationships prior to are "none of our business", but becoming a BS has changed all that.

 

First, I think it is, for example, a spouses business to know, for example, if his current SO has had three serious relationships and in all three, cheated on (or been cheated on!) in those. On the one hand, we can say "none of your business, this happened outside of US (even before there was an US). But we all know as either WS or BS that this just doesn't wash. It is our business in terms of making sure we are getting it right in the current situation.

 

Now that's just the theory.

 

In practice, within an hour of DDAy, I looked at my WS and said straight out, "you have had an affair with X before I met you didn't you?" And in fact I was dead on. She had been with a MM (2 grown children) whose wife was dying of cancer. She said, "it was none of your business." But I disagree. For one, she brought me into their post affair circle, by introducing him to me as a friend... so the lies begin early ... we even spent some nights in his place during visits to see him. .... and they spent hours together alone talking. Of course it was probably just old time / catching up talk. But it sure the hell was my business to know a) that this man and her were at one time sexual partners, and b) that she was capable as a woman to enter into a emotional and sexual relationship with a married man whose wife was dying. This is a piece of information that would have helped me to understand RIGHT from GO, to put together the pieces that my new GF exhibited the traits of Narcissistic Saviour complex. I had seen it in so many other ways, but to know that this would extend itself to allow her to "save" a man from his suffering through sexual and emotional bonding is very useful.

 

And I think it becomes "someone's business", when contact is reestablished inside the relationship.

 

So in my own experience, I don't think we can so easily categorize what is on the table and not on the table just by using words like "outside the marriage".

 

I am more of the opinion that the trajectory of two people who have connected doesn't end through structure, it ends when it ends emotionally, and as long as there were any emotional ties, one cannot resort to institutional reasons like "divorce papers were signed" as a way to circumnavigate the obvious fact that the emotions are still intertwined.

 

My WS had no business not telling me about her affair. And she realizes now that I didn't ask, but in order to cover up her shame, she was prepared to deceive me, and put start our relationship on the wrong foot. Later, when she got her game changing hug from her eventual AP, she had lots of experience already in "keeping" from me, important knowledge, my business or not.

Edited August 9, 2014 by fellini

[DKT3]

I used to think too, that issues about relationships prior to are "none of our business", but becoming a BS has changed all that.

 

First, I think it is, for example, a spouses business to know, for example, if his current SO has had three serious relationships and in all three, cheated on (or been cheated on!) in those. On the one hand, we can say "none of your business, this happened outside of US (even before there was an US). But we all know as either WS or BS that this just doesn't wash. It is our business in terms of making sure we are getting it right in the current situation.

 

Now that's just the theory.

 

In practice, within an hour of DDAy, I looked at my WS and said straight out, "you have had an affair with X before I met you didn't you?" And in fact I was dead on. She had been with a MM (2 grown children) whose wife was dying of cancer. She said, "it was none of your business." But I disagree. For one, she brought me into their post affair circle, by introducing him to me as a friend... so the lies begin early ... we even spent some nights in his place during visits to see him. .... and they spent hours together alone talking. Of course it was probably just old time / catching up talk. But it sure the hell was my business to know a) that this man and her were at one time sexual partners, and b) that she was capable as a woman to enter into a emotional and sexual relationship with a married man whose wife was dying. This is a piece of information that would have helped me to understand RIGHT from GO, to put together the pieces that my new GF exhibited the traits of Narcissistic Saviour complex. I had seen it in so many other ways, but to know that this would extend itself to allow her to "save" a man from his suffering through sexual and emotional bonding is very useful.

 

And I think it becomes "someone's business", when contact is reestablished inside the relationship.

 

So in my own experience, I don't think we can so easily categorize what is on the table and not on the table just by using words like "outside the marriage".

 

I am more of the opinion that the trajectory of two people who have connected doesn't end through structure, it ends when it ends emotionally, and as long as there were any emotional ties, one cannot resort to institutional reasons like "divorce papers were signed" as a way to circumnavigate the obvious fact that the emotions are still intertwined.

 

My WS had no business not telling me about her affair. And she realizes now that I didn't ask, but in order to cover up her shame, she was prepared to deceive me, and put start our relationship on the wrong foot. Later, when she got her game changing hug from her eventual AP, she had lots of experience already in "keeping" from me, important knowledge, my business or not.

 

My situation isn't even close to what you WS was involved in. Lovin knows the parameters of that relationship, she knows we were sexually and emotionally bonded, she knows we talked about a future together. That is where her needing to know should end.

 

Past behavior is most often the best gauge of future behavior. My past holds no signs of

Infidelity. When I was out having ONS I was up front and honest with every woman about my relationship status (heading for divorce 100%), and I was in no place for anything more then a short lived fling.

 

Question is do you ever really break an emotional bond? It can change, but does it ever fully go away? Work girl and I ended that relationship on good terms, we still cared about one another a great deal. Still emotions involved, they are different. I have no desire to be in a relationship of any kind with her. Even if Lovin was out of picture. She wanted things in life that I've already done, I cared enough to end it so she could find it with someone else.

 

Again Lovin knows all this, what else could possible be important to her about that relationship?

[fellini]

Again Lovin knows all this, what else could possible be important to her about that relationship?

 

This seems to be exactly what she is trying to tell you, what for her is important, but you seem to think your way of thinking allows you to deduce that it is none of her business.

 

So my point was, even if you thought one thing has nothing to do with another, and none of it is her business - by bringing it up she makes it so. If you want to talk to her about limits, that's one thing. But denying someone information because they suspect it might help them to understand something seems counterproductive to me.

 

On the one hand, my wife's relationships outside of our own is none of my business, but I need to understand her better in terms of our current relationship and her desire to deceive or not give me vital information.

 

I'm not sure why you don't want to get this framework by remarking how our two spouses differ. It's an example of perspective, not situations.

 

I understand the comment that the "past" gives "indications" about the future, but I do not think any of us can use that statement in the sense of, "in the past, I never cheated, she did" because every day you live is another opportunity for you to cheat, planned or not. It took my wife 17 years of marriage to cheat on me. If at year 15 I said, gee, her past behaviour gauges that she is not going to cheat. ...

 

This is not to say that you are going to cheat. But to say Ive been clean all these years is no indication of what you might do tomorrow.

Edited August 10, 2014 by fellini

[Spectre]

At the end of the day we still come back to square one, which is: she had no right to even ask about this and you should of never given her the information. But you did, so..we can sit here all day long and debate why or why not, but you can't change that. All I would say is that in the future do not give her so much power over you. Remember: you were not husband of the year, but you were not the one who had an affair either.

 

Whatever you did..had nothing to do with that. It wasn't her business, but you can't untell her now so..yeah, I still feel she needs to acknowledge she straight up should not of ever even asked you this, that to me would go a long way towards healing if I were in DK's shoes, but I am not him so I cannot say what he needs to heal, but I would at least want more or less an understanding of "yeah, this shouldn't of happened and especially nothing like it should ever happen again". But that is just my 2 cents, I am sure people will disagree.

[beach]

It looks like maybe it's your boundary that needs work.

 

You need to make yourself a priority.

 

We can assume at this point Lovin makes herself a priority. But you need to look out for yourself by knowing where you end and she begins.

 

Learn to enforce your healthy boundary. Lovin seems to be overstepping - she sold some of your stuff without that agreement? Lovin - stop doing those things. Always ask permission before doing anything. It's HIS stuff.

 

He has a right to understand his independence - from you.

 

It was crappy that you didn't support him at his competition. Why didn't you help him?

 

If he can't count on you to support him - then why would he be in this R?

 

When you have opportunities to redeem yourself Loving - why are you letting him down?