My (not unique) story...

[shermanator]

Spouse has affair, gets emotionally attached, distances from husband/wife. Should they stay or should they leave... same stories over and over again. So very sad.

 

Slightly different in my case, only in that I became emotionally drawn to the OW way before anything physical happened... We held off on being together for a long time. It was a super intense EA before anything else.

[WasOtherWoman]

Slightly different in my case, only in that I became emotionally drawn to the OW way before anything physical happened... We held off on being together for a long time. It was a super intense EA before anything else.

 

Yes, we were in love long before anything physical happened as well. An EA is much more dangerous than a PA, in my humble opinion.

[shermanator]

OP...you're still avoiding conflict, and still self-medicating.

 

There's NOTHING different today than there was 3 years ago when you were drinking.

 

The only exception is that today, it's being with OW, instead of being with the bottle.

 

It's time to start doing the right thing. You already know what the right thing is. It's just time to quit giving yourself permission to do the wrong thing.

 

I've talked about this in IC and raised that idea with my both therapists I've seen the last two years... they don't totally agree.

 

There's no question I'm avoiding conflict, but they don't think I'm necessarily an addict or alcoholic... alcohol wasn't always an issue for me and, most of the time when I drank, I didn't overdo it. I got a DUI a while back and I just decided that drinking wasn't right for me. My wife is super conservative with drinking (probably has five drinks a year) and I was always more casual with it, so I would just lie about how much I'd had to avoid a conflict...

 

So, I think the conflict avoidance is more the issue than the drinking.

[2sunny]

Slightly different in my case, only in that I became emotionally drawn to the OW way before anything physical happened... We held off on being together for a long time. It was a super intense EA before anything else.

 

It's not different - we see it here every day.

 

Nothing about the stuff you've done is "different" it's just plain and simply "crappy behavior" on your part.

[CarrieT]

She's not an idiot - she knows that something is off with me and maybe she's in denial.

 

I would be willing to put money down on the OW being the child of an alcoholic - and thereby a class co-dependent (speaking as one myself).

 

Shermanator, do any of these characteristics fit your OW? If so, she is not in denial about your alcoholism, but simply a co-depedent:

 

Caretaking: One of the majorparts of codependency is caretaking. Codependents often feel the need to take care of someone afflicted by the disease of addiction. They put their needs on the back burner in order to help others. They are often overcommitted, and have trouble budgeting their time between taking care of themselves and taking care of others. Codependents feel anxious or even guilty when another has a problem.

 

Self Worth: Codependents generally have low self-worth. They often come from dysfunctional families, and blame themselves for their problems. They openly pick on themselves about anything and everything, with the hope of receiving compliments. Codependency causes people to crave compliments and acceptance, while at the same time rejecting them, mostly because they do not believe the praise themselves. They are more comfortable in chaos, and often choose to be the victim. They repress their own needs, and prefer not to talk about themselves.

 

Dependency: Codependents do not really feel happy by themselves. They look to fill their needs externally, either by situations, people, or relationships. They often equate love with pain, and jump from one bad relationship to another. They take on their partner's emotions as their own.

 

 

There are other characteristics, obviously, but many people who agree to get involved with someone who is married have co-dependent tendencies.

[shermanator]

Then you've already received tons of advice on what to do from here.

 

Time to get busy. Just as with drinking...you don't start the change next week...you start it RIGHT NOW.

 

What's your plan?

 

I realize I just contradicted myself... I don't think I was addicted to drinking. I had a normal relationship with alcohol for years...

 

And I understand that the euphoria of the courtship, that initial rush of emotions and intoxicating pull of new love and being wanted isn't going to last forever. I get that. The OW understands that - she's been married once before...

 

All that being said, I can't stop thinking about the OW. I have to take active measures during the day to avoid thinking about her.

[shermanator]

It's not different - we see it here every day.

 

Nothing about the stuff you've done is "different" it's just plain and simply "crappy behavior" on your part.

 

Easy... I wasn't trying to defend my behavior, just saying that my timeline was a little different than the one laid out in the post I quoted.

[2sunny]

I realize I just contradicted myself... I don't think I was addicted to drinking. I had a normal relationship with alcohol for years...

 

And I understand that the euphoria of the courtship, that initial rush of emotions and intoxicating pull of new love and being wanted isn't going to last forever. I get that. The OW understands that - she's been married once before...

 

All that being said, I can't stop thinking about the OW. I have to take active measures during the day to avoid thinking about her.

 

Really?

 

Now that others here ask you to actively participate in your recovery - you deny having a problem?

 

We can't help you sir - your not willing to be honest AND

 

Your not willing to take action to change your own behavior.

 

You're still avoiding your problem = your behavior!

 

 

Good luck.

[shermanator]

I would be willing to put money down on the OW being the child of an alcoholic - and thereby a class co-dependent (speaking as one myself).

 

Shermanator, do any of these characteristics fit your OW? If so, she is not in denial about your alcoholism, but simply a co-depedent:

 

Caretaking: One of the majorparts of codependency is caretaking. Codependents often feel the need to take care of someone afflicted by the disease of addiction. They put their needs on the back burner in order to help others. They are often overcommitted, and have trouble budgeting their time between taking care of themselves and taking care of others. Codependents feel anxious or even guilty when another has a problem.

 

Self Worth: Codependents generally have low self-worth. They often come from dysfunctional families, and blame themselves for their problems. They openly pick on themselves about anything and everything, with the hope of receiving compliments. Codependency causes people to crave compliments and acceptance, while at the same time rejecting them, mostly because they do not believe the praise themselves. They are more comfortable in chaos, and often choose to be the victim. They repress their own needs, and prefer not to talk about themselves.

 

Dependency: Codependents do not really feel happy by themselves. They look to fill their needs externally, either by situations, people, or relationships. They often equate love with pain, and jump from one bad relationship to another. They take on their partner's emotions as their own.

 

 

There are other characteristics, obviously, but many people who agree to get involved with someone who is married have co-dependent tendencies.

 

I was talking about my W maybe being in denial... the OW isn't a child of an alcoholic.

 

She does have Self Worth issues, though, which we've talked about. She's way too hard on herself and, briefly, during one of our flare ups, tried to act like a victim in our relationship.

[shermanator]

Really?

 

Now that others here ask you to actively participate in your recovery - you deny having a problem?

 

We can't help you sir - your not willing to be honest AND

 

Your not willing to take action to change your own behavior.

 

You're still avoiding your problem = your behavior!

 

 

Good luck.

 

I've changed my behavior... gone NC, still going to therapy, not drinking, taking the advice of my ICs and doing what they tell me to.

[2sunny]

I don't think it's helping to be contact with any of these women... It only allows you to place the blame onto someone besides yourself.

 

Look within - that's where the issue lies.

 

Who are going to blame - since you're unwilling to blame yourself for the way you've participated?

 

Be on your own - for a long time - and find out how to participate with honesty and integrity by owning your own behavior.

Edited June 19, 2014 by 2sunny

[April Moon]

You you you you! You fail to acknowledge that you are taking your wife's choice away and that the affair happened because of an issue with you!

 

Be decent in this situation and tell your wife the truth. She and the ow deserve better.

[Mr. Lucky]

I know that, if I end the M, I will have to tell her what happened.

You've still got it backwards - if you don't end the marriage, you should tell her what has happened. The only opportunity your way presents is for her to beat herself up after the fact...

 

Mr. Lucky

[shermanator]

I don't think it's helping to be contact with any of these women... It only allows you to place the blame onto someone besides yourself.

 

Look within - that's where the issue lies.

 

Who are going to blame - since you're unwilling to blame yourself for the way you've participated?

 

Be on your own - for a long time - and find out how to participate with honesty and integrity by owning your own behavior.

 

Who said I'm unwilling to blame myself? I understand that I made all these choices for myself... I'll admit trying to get away with them and avoiding fallout at home, but I don't think I'm blaming anyone else.

[Owl]

Just going NC with OW isn't enough.

 

You're still avoiding the conflict by doing only that...and you know that.

 

You're STILL engaged in the wrong behaviors.

 

Let me spell this out for you.

 

You need to:

 

1. Decide if you're going to stay married or not. If not...file for divorce. If so...

2. Tell your wife the full and complete truth of what you've done. Be prepared to support her through her anger, grief, etc...

3. Be willing to make whatever changes in your life that she requires...if SHE is still willing to remain married to you in light of the whole truth. This should include:

A. Remaining in full NC with OW...forever.

B. Attending marriage counseling with your wife to figure out how to fix your marriage.

C. Be prepared to answer truthfully and honestly any questions your has about the affair.

D. Be ready to do whatever she needs in order for you to rebuild her trust and love in you.

E. Learn from your mistake, and remain a trustworthy and honorable husband going forward.

F. Work with your counselors and your wife to figure out what's missing within yourself that allowed you to make the (poor) choices that you have so far.

 

It's not rocket science...but it's much more than just going NC and hoping everything will change on its own. Life doesn't work that way.

 

P.S. If you can't do all of this...then move back up to step 1 and change your answer to divorce...and proceed from there.

[2sunny]

Who said I'm unwilling to blame myself? I understand that I made all these choices for myself... I'll admit trying to get away with them and avoiding fallout at home, but I don't think I'm blaming anyone else.

 

Are you sure?

 

A person attempting to repair the damage they've cause by setting things right - wouldn't be going about it the avoiding way you're doing it.

 

They'd be honest. They'd make a decision about how to participate with honor and integrity.

 

 

You keep changing your info too - that makes it very difficult to believe you.

 

When questioned about the solid work you need to do along with your quitting the drinking - you suddenly announced you actually don't have a drinking problem.

 

When expected to take action for your behavior - you change your truth - that sucks to be honest!

[shermanator]

You keep changing your info too - that makes it very difficult to believe you.

 

When questioned about the solid work you need to do along with your quitting the drinking - you suddenly announced you actually don't have a drinking problem.

 

When expected to take action for your behavior - you change your truth - that sucks to be honest!

 

Not changing the truth, just giving more information.

 

And, what do you mean, difficult to believe me? Why would I come to these forums and start making things up? It was a revelation to start reading some of these posts and see what other people are going through.

[2sunny]

Go back to the beginning and read what you've typed.

 

You keep trying to avoid changing yourself so much - that you've changed your story - it may help you justify doing nothing different... But you are still stuck with your inadequate coping skill set.

 

What do you plan to change about yourself?

[PachucaSunrise]

Thank you for sharing this... the OW has told me that I became her best friend. For a while, we were talking or texting ALL day, every day. I travel a lot for work and when I was out of town, I spent any spare time on the phone with her...

 

it was a total addiction. Just like my drinking or any other escape.

 

And she's been careful to never tell me that I should leave my M to be with her, just like I've never promised her that I'm leaving. She's said that, if I leave, it has to be because I want to, not because I need to be with her... and she's said that she's scared of dealing with the fallout - being the woman that people will say tore my family apart.

 

You're welcome, Sherm.

 

SAME EXACT THING in my situation - talking and texting ALL DAY - all my spare time was spent messaging or talking with him. I totally get it. It becomes part of your daily routine and you begin to look forward to it. If you don't talk, you left with a sort of empty feeling. That's why it's so difficult when it's gone - it leaves a huge void that's next to impossible to replace.

 

And you're right - ALL THE SIGNS OF AN ADDICTION!

 

See, I'm coming out of it. It's been over three months. I still have days where I cry, and I have quite a few triggers from all the things we shared. It's not easy, that's for sure. But now that I'm coming out of my own situation, I'm able to see your situation in a much different way. The one thing that strikes me is how SIMILAR our situations are. Again, I'm not discounting feelings on either side, but now that it's over, I can reflect and see just how typical the stages of my A were. I never thought I'd see it this way, NEVER, but I was so caught up in all the possibilities... The whole romantic idea that we crossed paths for a reason... How could I have met someone who understood me so incredibly well? Had I ever felt that way about someone before? No, of course not, because I was never in an A before. It really does change the dynamics of every little thing.

 

He was my escape and I was his. And just like you, he told me EVERYTHING. Even now, I don't doubt that for a second. But I was his 'safe person' - his 'secret' - so of course it was okay to share all the ugly details with me. We were so caught up with all the 'feelings', those ugly details didn't matter. They only made us feel more connected and that fueled the A even more. It's really crazy to think about when you can see it from an outsider's perspective.

 

I'm telling you, the best thing you did was go NC with the OW, but that's only a START. Of course you're gonna long for her... I still long for my AP at times. It's a very difficult thing to break. OW was giving you all the things you weren't getting in your M, and if you're not working on improving your M (or maybe even going your separate ways), you're just gonna sit and daydream about this woman and how she's the perfect match for you.

 

My XMM also had some trouble with drinking - another escape, and yet another red flag in terms of replacing his addictions. And now that I'm gone, what do you think he's doing?

 

Sherm, I'm blown away by all the excellent advice you've gotten here on your thread. Some very insightful stuff, indeed. You've got quite a bit on your plate, and now it's time to start making some moves. Time to hit this conflict head-on. I'm sure it's overwhelming, so take it one step at a time. And once you start making some decisions and actually see some progress, you're going to begin feeling less and less conflicted and more confident in your ability to face uncomfortable situations.

 

The one thing you CAN'T do is remain in a state of helplessness. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your W. Remaining in limbo is only going to rob her of the precious time she can ultimately spend happy and fulfilled.

 

One step at a time - you can do this. Now, get to work!

[shermanator]

You're welcome, Sherm.

 

SAME EXACT THING in my situation - talking and texting ALL DAY - all my spare time was spent messaging or talking with him. I totally get it. It becomes part of your daily routine and you begin to look forward to it. If you don't talk, you left with a sort of empty feeling. That's why it's so difficult when it's gone - it leaves a huge void that's next to impossible to replace.

 

See, I'm coming out of it. It's been over three months. I still have days where I cry, and I have quite a few triggers from all the things we shared. It's not easy, that's for sure. But now that I'm coming out of my own situation, I'm able to see your situation in a much different way. The one thing that strikes me is how SIMILAR our situations are. Again, I'm not discounting feelings on either side, but now that it's over, I can reflect and see just how typical the stages of my A were. I never thought I'd see it this way, NEVER, but I was so caught up in all the possibilities... The whole romantic idea that we crossed paths for a reason... How could I have met someone who understood me so incredibly well? Had I ever felt that way about someone before? No, of course not, because I was never in an A before. It really does change the dynamics of every little thing.

 

He was my escape and I was his. And just like you, he told me EVERYTHING. Even now, I don't doubt that for a second. But I was his 'safe person' - his 'secret' - so of course it was okay to share all the ugly details with me. We were so caught up with all the 'feelings', those ugly details didn't matter. They only made us feel more connected and that fueled the A even more. It's really crazy to think about when you can see it from an outsider's perspective.

 

Yes, a huge void... like I said, my relationship with her is probably the only time I've been 100% honest with anyone. Told her about my DUI, family issues, etc... didn't sugar coat anything and it was so liberating. As a result, I've become more open with other people in my life, but at a huge cost, obviously.

 

The romance and 'crossed paths for a reason' could have been lifted from one of our conversations, word for word.

[shermanator]

Just going NC with OW isn't enough.

 

You're still avoiding the conflict by doing only that...and you know that.

 

You're STILL engaged in the wrong behaviors.

 

Let me spell this out for you.

 

You need to:

 

1. Decide if you're going to stay married or not. If not...file for divorce. If so...

2. Tell your wife the full and complete truth of what you've done. Be prepared to support her through her anger, grief, etc...

3. Be willing to make whatever changes in your life that she requires...if SHE is still willing to remain married to you in light of the whole truth. This should include:

A. Remaining in full NC with OW...forever.

B. Attending marriage counseling with your wife to figure out how to fix your marriage.

C. Be prepared to answer truthfully and honestly any questions your has about the affair.

D. Be ready to do whatever she needs in order for you to rebuild her trust and love in you.

E. Learn from your mistake, and remain a trustworthy and honorable husband going forward.

F. Work with your counselors and your wife to figure out what's missing within yourself that allowed you to make the (poor) choices that you have so far.

 

It's not rocket science...but it's much more than just going NC and hoping everything will change on its own. Life doesn't work that way.

 

P.S. If you can't do all of this...then move back up to step 1 and change your answer to divorce...and proceed from there.

 

I'm taking this list and advice to IC next week... seems pretty solid. I understand that I'm still avoiding conflict but, like I've said, both IC's have said I really shouldn't tell my W everything... maybe the advice to be totally open with my W will come later, but I'll bring this up with the therapist next week.

[shermanator]

I really didn't think my OW was just an escape, though... and I told her that. My wife and I don't really fight (probably because I just avoided conflicts) are on the same page with rules for the kids, etc... she complains a lot and worries about everything - total opposite of me.

 

My marriage wasn't perfect, but, until I met her and started developing feelings for her, I hadn't really ever thought about straying. I'd obviously met other women (work, gym, life, etc) over the years and nothing happened... part of that feeling, that there's 'some reason we met,' or 'some reason we crossed paths,' played into everything, no question.

 

Something is broken in me, no question, but I still can't help the feeling that there's something special about the OW... The draw and pull I felt for her was so strong for so long. And everything I learned about her just made me like her more and more.

[katielee]

Shermanator: every wayward here, including myself, thought their AP was special. They are not, unless you think helping someone lose their dignity and integrity is special. Think about it.

[katielee]

Yes, a huge void... like I said, my relationship with her is probably the only time I've been 100% honest with anyone. Told her about my DUI, family issues, etc... didn't sugar coat anything and it was so liberating. As a result, I've become more open with other people in my life, but at a huge cost, obviously.

 

.

 

because you're running from intimacy. she's safe to talk to because you don't share "real life" with her. Happens all the time in an affair.

[Charlie Harper]

Also happens in a lot of codependent relationships where the truth or the straight answers can't be told. Happens all the time just ask a any woman or men who has been in a physically abusive relationship…. (Stockholm syndrome)

 

So its sometimes because of this and not because one of the S lacks honesty…

 

Sherm, BABY STEPS buddy do what feels right and DO IT, use your IC to make progress keep N.C. and see where you want to take your M.

 

Good Luck