My (not unique) story...

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Can't blame her. Look, if she's asking you these questions, jokingly or not, she knows something isn't right. Sitting her down and telling her the truth will be painful for you both, but is also a act of intimacy.

I've never been a bs that I know of, but I would think that a full confession, instead of letting me find out on my own, would go a long way toward showing me that he wanted to stop being a liar and a cheat. Coming clean about a major f-up takes guts. Cheating takes none.

 

This.

 

What kind of man do you want to be?

 

Forget about OW, your wife, your children, your parents. This is about you, and being the best man you can be. Is that what you want?

 

You cant change the past, but you can change who you want to be moving forward. Live with honour, integrity. Truth.

 

I dont think youre a bad man, but youve made some pretty $hitty choices. And you're not doing yourself any favours by choosing to be a liar and a cheat. And you are still a liar and a cheat. You're robbing yourself. And youre being a coward. Be the man your kids and wife deserve. Step up, tell your wife, own it and do the work. For yourself! Its the honorable path and you know it. Get some self respect back.

[PachucaSunrise]

The OW texted me this morning... asked if I'd read the 5 love languages book. She thought that it might help me and my W.

 

Sherm, having her in your life, in ANY way, will not help your W or your M (or you, for that matter, especially considering the confused state you're currently in)... She may think she's helping you, but she's only adding unnecessary chaos, whether she realizes it or not.

 

I did the SAME thing with XMM. Who the hell did I think I was?! The OW, giving her MM tips on saving his M? That thought process is just bananas. My intentions were coming from a good place, or so I thought, but I should NOT have known as much as I did about his M in the first place.

 

What's done is done regarding what you've already shared with her, but in the future, the issues in your M should be shared with your M partner - your W!

 

I was XMM's outlet, just at it seems as though OW was for you, so I can understand how easy it was for you to confide in her. He told me EVERYTHING, the same as your situation. I knew more about the issues surrounding his M than his W, and that's just crazy!! But I think back now and realize how unfair that was... Not only to his W, but to me as well. The boundaries that were crossed on an emotional level became detrimental to his M. It was already in ruins when I met him, but taking on the role of his 'therapist' further complicated the situation way beyond repair. I am not proud of this, but at the time, in my faulty way of thinking, I honestly thought I was doing the right thing. I SOOOOO wasn't.

 

Conflict avoidance - you are incredibly similar to my XMM in this sense. He avoided issues in his M for YEARS, just as you have. In his case, the issues continued to build up, he became complacent, and eventually threw in the towel. Enter me - a temporary escape. What happened in the end? A horrific explosion, causing ALL of us the worst kind of pain imaginable. You are still at a point where you can avoid some of this, ONLY if you begin to face the music. It's not going to be easy, but consider the alternatives...

 

I didn't respond. What should I make of her reaching out?

 

Glad you didn't respond. I'm hoping she's already aware you're in NC for a reason. Forgive me if I missed it... This is one LONGGGG thread, but is she?? I doubt that many will agree with this, but if you've left her in the dark and she is TRULY not aware of the whole nature of NC... Tell her not to contact you anymore... Short and sweet and to the point, and THAT'S IT. If she's already aware, DO NOT RESPOND TO HER MESSAGE... Unless you want to further complicate your life.

 

There's nothing to make of her reaching out, aside from getting her foot back in the door. You DON'T need this right now. The helpful tips you have gotten on this thread are PRICELESS. Now it's time to do some work. You can do it!!

[SoleMate]

[Me] making decisions for [my BW]? I don't understand that...

 

Have you ever bought real estate? Do you live in a state with real estate disclosure laws? Can you imagine how you'd feel if the seller swore the house was in great shape and even faked an appraisal or steered you to a crooked appraiser, who covered up the devastating defect that made your new house a net liability? And that same seller was say, your mom or dad? And that seller kept piling lie after lie for 5, 10, or 15 years to cover up the awkward questions you kept posing? Maybe the seller deliberately strung you along until the statute of limitations on their fraud ran out. Maybe the seller decided that revealing the fraud would "upset" you "too much".

 

That's a rough analogue for what you're doing. Hope that's clear.

[beach]

The OW texted me this morning... asked if I'd read the 5 love languages book. She thought that it might help me and my W.

 

I didn't respond. What should I make of her reaching out?

 

She thinks she has a say for how you participate in your M.

 

That's how much you've ALLOWED this woman to intrude on the privacy within your marriage.

 

Tell her it's none of her business now - you're focusing on the M.

 

 

But I do notice that the OW also recognizes that you have trouble communicating effectively.

 

Why haven't you blocked the OW?

[shermanator]

She thinks she has a say for how you participate in your M.

 

That's how much you've ALLOWED this woman to intrude on the privacy within your marriage.

 

Tell her it's none of her business now - you're focusing on the M.

 

 

But I do notice that the OW also recognizes that you have trouble communicating effectively.

 

Why haven't you blocked the OW?

 

I didn't answer her... she knows I'm working on my M and she knows I haven't communicated clearly with my W in the past because I told my OW that was the case.

[shermanator]

Have you ever bought real estate? Do you live in a state with real estate disclosure laws? Can you imagine how you'd feel if the seller swore the house was in great shape and even faked an appraisal or steered you to a crooked appraiser, who covered up the devastating defect that made your new house a net liability? And that same seller was say, your mom or dad? And that seller kept piling lie after lie for 5, 10, or 15 years to cover up the awkward questions you kept posing? Maybe the seller deliberately strung you along until the statute of limitations on their fraud ran out. Maybe the seller decided that revealing the fraud would "upset" you "too much".

 

That's a rough analogue for what you're doing. Hope that's clear.

 

I'll admit what I'm doing/done isn't right, but this is a stretch, I think.

[shermanator]

This.

 

What kind of man do you want to be?

 

Forget about OW, your wife, your children, your parents. This is about you, and being the best man you can be. Is that what you want?

 

You cant change the past, but you can change who you want to be moving forward. Live with honour, integrity. Truth.

 

I dont think youre a bad man, but youve made some pretty $hitty choices. And you're not doing yourself any favours by choosing to be a liar and a cheat. And you are still a liar and a cheat. You're robbing yourself. And youre being a coward. Be the man your kids and wife deserve. Step up, tell your wife, own it and do the work. For yourself! Its the honorable path and you know it. Get some self respect back.

 

Everything you're saying makes sense... Yes, I've made some bad choices. What's your scenario? Have you been faced with the choice like I one I have (to tell or not)? And, if so, I'm sure you just stepped right up and put it all on the line (house, kids, W, etc), right?

[beach]

I didn't answer her... she knows I'm working on my M and she knows I haven't communicated clearly with my W in the past because I told my OW that was the case.

 

Why didn't you block her?

 

IF you're working on the M - it's not going to help to get a random (but purposely manipulative) text from OW.

 

It still feeds your ego to get a text. It still makes you think of her.

[waterwoman]

I'll admit what I'm doing/done isn't right, but this is a stretch, I think.

 

Why? Why is it a stretch? You had an affair. You continue to keep it secret from her. I thnik the analogy is apt. She may be aware that there is something wrong - in the same way that someone who has bought a house is aware that the floorboards creak alarmingly in the upstairs bathroom, and that the ktichen floor seems a bit uneven. She knows that needs fixing but it's an old house - these things happen. She doesn't know that the reason they are happening is because of major subsidence and the person who knows and might be able to do something about it is busy hiding the fact from her.

 

You are not happy. Right at the beginning of the thread you said 'I didn't even think my marriage was awful' but now it is awful. You're not having sex, you don't want to have sex. She isn't a fool, she is worried (you said yourself she is a worrier so know she has something to really worry about).

 

What are you are doing is saying 'I may be ending my marriage, I don't know what I want but it might not be my marriage. The other person in this marriage can't know because she might make it difficult for me to end my marriage on the terms that suit me best. And if I don't choose to end my marriage I don't want my past actions to make me uncomfortable in the future'.

 

How is the above not unfair to your wife? How is that acting in a honourable fashion? Forget the affair for now, think of what your current actions are and decide how honourable they are. Imagine it's any other horrible secret that you know and your wife doesn't. You have found out that you have a life-lmiting illness, that your job is about to disappear and you will struggle to pay the mortgage, or some investments you made turned out to be worthless and you've lost everything. These are things she needs to know for her own sake......would you keep them secret?

 

She is walking on quicksand but she doesn't know it yet.

 

To continue this long lecture a little longer, I am talking to you not just as BW but also as a WW many years ago. It was an EA but I didn't call it that then, as far as I was concerned it was just flirting and a strong attraction - from the sounds of your story you were at the same stage at one point. It was in work. It ended because he broke the rules, he jumped the gun and left his GF and told me I had to leave my H. I didn't want to and I walked away.

 

I didnt tell H. I didn't think I had to. I thought it woudl cause too much turmoil and might hurt my marriage. But the OM and his memory became my private place, my little haven from the normal ups and downs of married life - and we had more than our fair share. I was able to escape dealing with thing that we should have dealt with, become distant from H. And 2 and a half years ago he did the same thing but his went further - his OW wasn't quite as naive as my OM, she played a blinder It only ended because I found out. His affair was pulled out into the open, laid open to the sun, he saw my pain and my anger, in time he saw the affair for what it was in reality, sordid and selfish, not something to be cherished as a special memory. I confessed at the same time - by this time it seemed an irrelevance but at least there were no secrets. That at least was a good thing.

 

Long-term secrecy can have a price, as big if not bigger than the short-term damage of disclosure.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Everything you're saying makes sense... Yes, I've made some bad choices. What's your scenario? Have you been faced with the choice like I one I have (to tell or not)? And, if so, I'm sure you just stepped right up and put it all on the line (house, kids, W, etc), right?

 

Me? I have no stake in this. I am neitherva BS or an AP. I am a child of infidelity whose childhood and life has been turned upside down by infidelity...but not so much as the act itself...although destructive, but the aftershocks of the lies. So many lies I cant even find my truth anymore.

 

But you know what...ive faced ruts and a crappy marriage. I have to work every. Single. Day at staying engaged with my husband. The temptation for me to cheat is high. Not going to lie about that. And it would be easy too. So easy. But....

 

Then I look at my FOO, and I look at my children and I look at myself...and I KNOW in myself I am BETTER than this. Its not who I want to be. Yes I told my husband my issues. I even asked for an open marriage. The disconnect is severe right now, but how could he even know how bad it was until I opened up to what was going on inside me??? And yes, that conversation did put everything on the line. I told him I wanted to have sex with other people. How would you take that?

 

Im not going to slam you for decisions already made. Like I said...cant re write history. But I want to be someone my kids can be proud of. I am it for them. They only get 1 mum. My loyalty is to them, and - because I chose him - Their father. I need to be someone they can respect...but before that I need to respect myself first....and thats by working on me and being the best me I can be. I dont want to see a liar and a cheat every time I look in the mirror. Do you?

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

And let me also say this....imhave a very hard time accepting that a good person would willingly engage in activities which would separate a child and their parent. A single woman who interferes in someone elses family a good person? I have a very hard time reconciling that. You are idealising her. She has helped to destroy your family, and she continues to cross boundaries with her continued contact. She doesnt even respect your boundaries now. Block her. Unless youre not serious about the boundaries and want to continue having her reach out to stroke your ego.

[katielee]

 

 

 

Long-term secrecy can have a price, as big if not bigger than the short-term damage of disclosure.

 

requoted for emphasis!

[Appreciate]

Everything you're saying makes sense... Yes, I've made some bad choices. What's your scenario? Have you been faced with the choice like I one I have (to tell or not)? And, if so, I'm sure you just stepped right up and put it all on the line (house, kids, W, etc), right?

 

He's saying the only way to redeem your bad choices is to come clean and not try to weasel your way through it anymore. At some point, you've got to make a decision and be thoughtful in your plan. Putting it all on the line is the price to pay for having an affair.. there's no real way of getting around that.

[fellini]

And let me also say this....imhave a very hard time accepting that a good person would willingly engage in activities which would separate a child and their parent. A single woman who interferes in someone elses family a good person? I have a very hard time reconciling that. You are idealising her. She has helped to destroy your family, and she continues to cross boundaries with her continued contact. She doesnt even respect your boundaries now. Block her. Unless youre not serious about the boundaries and want to continue having her reach out to stroke your ego.

 

I think you put to much blame on the OW. It's incredible in here because we have another thread running parallel in which the OW is being praised for her fantastic job in destroying an unhealthy marriage and getting the WS to divorce so she can be with him. I think what really matters is what the OP wants for himself, and thus, which woman, if any, he ultimately chooses to be with. My guess is that if he separates this won't be the first child on the planet to have two loving parents living in two different places.

 

All that matters is that the OP does not bring the OW between the children and the true mother and he has shown no signs of doing this, in fact, he is not demonizing his wife at ALL.

 

As if have mentioned, OP, my WS and I did a structured separation. This occurred at about month 8 when it was clear she had not dealt with her lingering emotional attachments to the AP. There was no risk of them getting back together, EVEN with knowing that they work together.

 

What I needed was for her and I to be apart so that she was not in my face all the time with her "sorry sorry sorry" (focussing all her activity on my pain) and thus not dealing with what was truly going on in her head.

 

In order to do this separation, we agreed to tell our 9 year old daughter the reason: Mommy doesn't know if she wants to be with another man. And she needs to be apart to figure it out.

 

Of course in your position you are not going to reveal the affair, but the point is the same: Daddy has to figure out if he wants to stay with mommy. This is the issue, and doing so for one month is not Armageddon.

[fellini]

He's saying the only way to redeem your bad choices is to come clean and not try to weasel your way through it anymore. At some point, you've got to make a decision and be thoughtful in your plan. Putting it all on the line is the price to pay for having an affair.. there's no real way of getting around that.

 

There is no redemption. The BS will live the rest of her life in hell. We already know this because every BS is saying the same thing. It never ends.

 

The fact that we cannot even count the number of affairs that have occurred, past and moved on, suggests that there is a VERY REAL WAY OF GETTING AROUND IT, and that way is simply not to tell. Of course if his WS is going to find out for sure, then he should be the one to do so. But if he is going to walk away from this marriage, he can tell her whenever he wishes.

[Appreciate]

Maybe. Or somehow the BS finds out later on and realizes they have been living many years as an illusion. I think I'd prefer to know, despite the pain. I'd rather not live a life as a lie. I can't speak for others...

[shermanator]

I think you put to much blame on the OW. It's incredible in here because we have another thread running parallel in which the OW is being praised for her fantastic job in destroying an unhealthy marriage and getting the WS to divorce so she can be with him. I think what really matters is what the OP wants for himself, and thus, which woman, if any, he ultimately chooses to be with. My guess is that if he separates this won't be the first child on the planet to have two loving parents living in two different places.

 

All that matters is that the OP does not bring the OW between the children and the true mother and he has shown no signs of doing this, in fact, he is not demonizing his wife at ALL.

 

The OW, before we went NC, said she didn't want to 'replace' my W or take my W's place with the kids. OW talked about how my W would always be in the kids' lives, no matter what, which is what I would want, too. My W is a good mother and we do a good job, together, with the kids - I think (based on what people tell us, grades, etc).

 

I understand this could all go to crap once the situation unfolds and I come clean, but, on paper, the OW understands. From my side, I have no reason demonize my W.

[shermanator]

I had another IC meeting today, where the IC suggested reading "Seven principles for making marriage work," so I'm going to start that.

 

She also kind of dismissed the idea of Limerence (sp?)... she was familiar with it, but didn't really think it applied here. I told her that it really sounded like what I was experiencing (intrusive thoughts, borderline obsession, need for reciprocity etc), but she wasn't sure.

 

Based on what I've told her about our M, she thinks my W and I have disconnected... spent too much time worrying about kids, keeping busy, working, living thru other people on Facebook, that we have both lost sight of what made us happy in the beginning. Total cliche, but I guess that's why they're cliches or stereotypes.

 

Instead of me realizing this, and talking to my wife about it, I developed feelings for the OW. I was getting the attention I wasn't getting at home... and now, even going NC, the feelings got so intense, and I became so withdrawn, I can't even do the physical things with my wife anymore, which is going to start causing problems.

 

Again, my W has told me that I'm a great dad and she's living the life she has always imagined... I still can't sleep and, when I think about spending the rest of my life with this secret, it makes me ill.

 

I've lost weight and a few people have told me that I'm looking great... not looking for sympathy, but trying to explain that this isn't easy.

 

Yes, I was a coward, but I think it's awfully easy for everyone (most people, I guess) on here to sit and tell me that a full confession is the ONLY way to move forward.

 

EDIT: Also, my IC has spoken to the MC that my W and I saw, together, who knew the full story, in order to get a better picture about my W and our M.

Edited June 23, 2014 by shermanator

[2sunny]

Sherm-

 

Aside from reading books...

What ACTION are YOU planning to take to IMPROVE your marriage?

[shermanator]

Sherm-

 

Aside from reading books...

What ACTION are YOU planning to take to IMPROVE your marriage?

 

You're going to say that, unless I start by telling her about the OW and the A, it doesn't matter, right? I'm not going to do that right now.

 

I will be more honest with my feelings, make more of an effort to touch her and demonstrate affection, tell her when I'm upset/feeling unappreciated (instead of hiding/running from those thoughts). The things my IC is suggesting that I do.

[2sunny]

I'm not going to encourage you to tell her about your affair - you've made it clear you're not telling her.

 

I do think it's going to take more action and effort on your part to feel closer to your wife.

 

Just touching someone and telling them how you feel - good or not good - isn't enough effort you sustain intimacy after an affair ends. Heck, that's not even scratching the surface of making effort for your wife.

 

Unless you just want to be in the marriage technically but not emotionally invested.

 

Seems pretty superficial - not very rewarding.

 

What other ideas can you come up with? Think of your wife like you're dating someone and can't get enough of her - what would you be doing to make sure your wife knows she's your top priority?

[fellini]

You're going to say that, unless I start by telling her about the OW and the A, it doesn't matter, right? I'm not going to do that right now.

 

I will be more honest with my feelings, make more of an effort to touch her and demonstrate affection, tell her when I'm upset/feeling unappreciated (instead of hiding/running from those thoughts). The things my IC is suggesting that I do.

 

 

Have a look at "Marriage Fitness". It doesn't require exposure of the affair in the least. It's for couples, it's not based on betrayal trauma, the opposite. It's about getting IN shape, not out. (Google it: Mort Fertel is the author of the programme)

[HermioneG]

Have a look at "Marriage Fitness". It doesn't require exposure of the affair in the least. It's for couples, it's not based on betrayal trauma, the opposite. It's about getting IN shape, not out. (Google it: Mort Fertel is the author of the programme)

 

I followed this program. I had all the discs and listened faithfully and applied it.

 

It was great- for me, as a betrayed. It kept my husband pretty easily able to gaslight me during a false recovery, because it taught me to ignore my instincts. #sarcasm

 

OP's wife is already at a disadvantage because she is ignorant of the truth of her own life. Mort Fertel is not an appropriate choice for people dealing with an affair. , even if only one of the partners is aware of that.

[fellini]

I followed this program. I had all the discs and listened faithfully and applied it.

 

It was great- for me, as a betrayed. It kept my husband pretty easily able to gaslight me during a false recovery, because it taught me to ignore my instincts. #sarcasm

 

OP's wife is already at a disadvantage because she is ignorant of the truth of her own life. Mort Fertel is not an appropriate choice for people dealing with an affair. , even if only one of the partners is aware of that.

 

The OP is looking for advice and options. I have offered some. Its up to him to check it out and decide for himself.

[HermioneG]

The OP is looking for advice and options. I have offered some. Its up to him to check it out and decide for himself.

 

Absolutely.

 

It is also absolutely okay for other people to suggest it is not a good program.

 

Information is power. Suggestions can come from both pro and con on this suggestion. I am not the only person who is familiar with this suggestion and the potential downside when the principles are applied in a ongoing dishonest situation.