My (not unique) story...

[Owl]

Marriage Fitness for this situation doesn't seem to fit, to me.

 

It's like suggesting marathon running to a terminally ill patient.

 

There's a certain level of "assumed fitness" that the marriage probably needs to be at before this could work. Infidelity is rather like cancer to a marriage...it needs to be addressed first, before you can fix any of the underlying issues.

 

And that's something I don't believe the OP understands yet.

 

Sure it could be considered a 'symptom' of the state of the marriage...but its a symptom that could kill the patient before the treatment for it runs it's course. Like an extremely high fever may be a symptom of an infection. Yes, you treat the infection with antibiotics...but you'd better treat the fever first, or the patient will die from that long before the infection is cured.

[2sunny]

Just by the basic dynamics of your situation and marriage - I get the impression you never did feel close to your wife.

 

I'm sure it was your fault - as your drinking and hiding your feelings and truth from your wife is bound to make any marriage feel disconnected/uninvested.

 

Since you have spent 12 years not being close to your wife maybe she doesn't expect it? Maybe she's gotten used to an absent husband, a distant participant, a non supportive partner...?

 

Maybe she just doesn't care if you participate or not? It's possible! Maybe her expectations of you as a partner are so low that it wouldn't matter if you left?

 

Since you've stated that you haven't really shared how you feel over the years and that it would be something new to you and her - maybe she doesn't really want to know how you feel? Or even care enough to ask?

 

Hmmm, just thinking out loud how it must feel to be married to an invisible husband that way for 12 years...and how much I'd need to be emotionally supportive to myself if I couldn't depend on my husband to fill that role for me by being my partner.

[Oberfeldwebel]

You can't get up, until you admit that you are down. You can't get right with your wife, until you admit you are wrong.

[Owl]

The OP has outlined a long history of dishonesty in his marriage...that "lying by ommission" has been his M.O. for both maintaining his drinking addiction, and his affair.

 

Any plan to help fix the underlying issues here need to center around those issues, and the deception itself.

 

That's why I disagree with the recommendation for Marriage Fitness...which addresses none of those things.

 

The OP himself has indicated that his marriage has been good outside of these issues...so there's little value in something that doesn't directly address infidelity, lack of honest communication and interaction, and underlying trust issues that are created by both infidelity and addiction.

 

No one is required to agree with anyone else's advice on LS, as far as I know. Mine has been disagreed and argued against many, many times here...often by folks I wouldn't have expected to disagree.

 

I stand by my recommendations to the O.P. I believe that they're his best course of action to move forward.

Edited June 26, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[shermanator]

I didn't 'hide' any drinking problem my wife... On occasion, I drank too much, lied about it and didn't tell her when I was feeling alone, disconnected, etc. Instead of having a mature conversation with her, I would, sometimes, drink to numb my feelings.

 

We argued about my drinking (she thinks a couple drinks on a Friday night is a problem), so I started lying about how many drinks I'd have... That's it.

 

She would say, if it weren't for the drinking, we'd have a perfect marriage... thinking that the drinking was the problem. I think I was drinking because of some other problem (communication, lack of intimacy, whatever).

 

My behavior (lying, drinking) pushed my wife away, but then I became lonely because she was unattached... then I found someone else who I was totally drawn to... she admitted she had feelings, after a long time, and we fell for each other.

 

So, I have a loving wife, a nice life, a nice house, polite, happy kids and I feel like I'm in love with someone else... on paper, it makes NO sense.

Edited June 26, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[shermanator]

The OP has outlined a long history of dishonesty in his marriage...that "lying by ommission" has been his M.O. for both maintaining his drinking addiction, and his affair.

 

Any plan to help fix the underlying issues here need to center around those issues, and the deception itself.

 

That's why I disagree with the recommendation for Marriage Fitness...which addresses none of those things.

 

The OP himself has indicated that his marriage has been good outside of these issues...so there's little value in something that doesn't directly address infidelity, lack of honest communication and interaction, and underlying trust issues that are created by both infidelity and addiction.

 

No one is required to agree with anyone else's advice on LS, as far as I know. Mine has been disagreed and argued against many, many times here...often by folks I wouldn't have expected to disagree.

 

I stand by my recommendations to the O.P. I believe that they're his best course of action to move forward.

 

Yes, lying by omission has been my standard... 100% agree with this.

 

The OW is the only person in my life with whom I've never held anything back...

 

From the beginning of our A, I told her "I'm so drawn to you, but I'm married," "I can't imagine walking away from my family," etc, etc... I tried my best to not make any promises I couldn't keep and told her that the A and my feelings caught me off guard because I thought things at home were okay - but something about her fascinated me.

Edited June 26, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Owl]

Yes, lying by omission has been my standard... 100% agree with this.

 

The OW is the only person in my life with whom I've never held anything back...

 

From the beginning of our A, I told her "I'm so drawn to you, but I'm married," "I can't imagine walking away from my family," etc, etc... I tried my best to not make any promises I couldn't keep and told her that the A and my feelings caught me off guard because I thought things at home were okay - but something about her fascinated me.

 

See...this focus is the key source of your problem.

 

We're not talking about OW. We're talking about your marriage. But...you shift the focus onto her instead, wherever you can.

 

If this is how you feel...your path is clear. Divorce your wife for OW. Point blank. Not rocket science.

 

Either focus on fixing the problem...or focus on OW.

 

These two things are diametrically opposed. Focusing on her makes your issues and problems in your marriage insurmountable. Focus on your marriage means the first step you have to take is to let her go...completely, utterly, and totally. Not just physically...but emotionally and mentally as well.

 

So...what do we help you with from here, Sherm? Fixing your marriage, or ending it?

[beatcuff]

i think the posters thus far are seriously overlooking: the real issue is not the A, its that OP is in love with the OW!!!

 

how can a M be saved under these circumstances.

 

OP is looking for absolution.

[Owl]

i think the posters thus far are seriously overlooking: the real issue is not the A, its that OP is in love with the OW!!!

 

how can a M be saved under these circumstances.

 

OP is looking for absolution.

 

Actually...that was rather my point.

 

If he's still focusing on OW...there's nothing he can do for his marriage.

 

Whether that's 'love' or not, I won't debate.

[shermanator]

See...this focus is the key source of your problem.

 

We're not talking about OW. We're talking about your marriage. But...you shift the focus onto her instead, wherever you can.

 

If this is how you feel...your path is clear. Divorce your wife for OW. Point blank. Not rocket science.

 

Either focus on fixing the problem...or focus on OW.

 

These two things are diametrically opposed. Focusing on her makes your issues and problems in your marriage insurmountable. Focus on your marriage means the first step you have to take is to let her go...completely, utterly, and totally. Not just physically...but emotionally and mentally as well.

 

So...what do we help you with from here, Sherm? Fixing your marriage, or ending it?

 

That's what I'm trying to figure out... I feel like my situation is untenable. I have a decent wife, who, through my own childish behavior, I pushed away. That led to relationship issues, which I buried... I then sought out attention (unknowingly, I guess) from someone else and I honestly feel like I fell in love with her.

 

I haven't talked to her or seen her in a couple weeks, yet she's almost all I think about. I'm on vacation with my wife and kids right now, but I'm unable to clear my head.

 

Physically, I haven't been with the OW in over two months... but I can't stop the mental and emotional pull. Like I said, the EA at the beginning was pretty powerful... changing our situation to a PA just complicated the matter.

[2sunny]

Dude - it's totally unfair the way you're participating.

 

Be by yourself! For at least a year! You have issues to work on all on your own without distractions.

[shermanator]

Dude - it's totally unfair the way you're participating.

 

Be by yourself! For at least a year! You have issues to work on all on your own without distractions.

 

Hahaha... I've got a job, kids, wife, mortgage, etc... you think I can just take a sabbatical and 'figure things out' for a year? I wish.

 

I understand that it's unfair. I feel like I've remained a good dad, but I'm not being a good husband or good partner to my wife (not that I was being a great one during the A, obvs).

[Owl]

That's what I'm trying to figure out... I feel like my situation is untenable. I have a decent wife, who, through my own childish behavior, I pushed away. That led to relationship issues, which I buried... I then sought out attention (unknowingly, I guess) from someone else and I honestly feel like I fell in love with her.

 

I haven't talked to her or seen her in a couple weeks, yet she's almost all I think about. I'm on vacation with my wife and kids right now, but I'm unable to clear my head.

 

Physically, I haven't been with the OW in over two months... but I can't stop the mental and emotional pull. Like I said, the EA at the beginning was pretty powerful... changing our situation to a PA just complicated the matter.

 

Actually, you CAN change your mental dynamics.

 

BS's have to learn to do it all the time when learning to cope with 'triggers' post affair.

 

Ever see the Newhart spoof..."Stop it!"? He's a therapist...and that's what he tells his patients.

 

Silly...hilarious actually...but also, very true.

 

When you find yourself thinking about OW...STOP IT!!! Stop for a moment, recognize that's what you're doing...and deliberately and intentionally change your focus onto something else instead. Like changing the channels on your TV.

 

It's not easy, but it quickly gets easier with practice.

 

Look up the Newhart thing on youtube. You'll get a good chuckle out of it.

 

But...it's also a good mental technique to learn.

 

Simply stop LETTING YOURSELF stay focused on OW when she comes to mind.

 

After a while...you get no benefit from thinking about her at all...she fades in importance in your mind.

 

BTW...this is another reason why I advocate telling your wife. Focusing on rebuilding your marriage will REMOVE your focus from OW. You'll see all these negative outcomes of your affair, and suddenly that rosy glow fades pretty damned quick.

[spookysonata]

The above advice from Owl is excellent... and entirely within your power to accomplish. YOU can change this situation. Just because it won't be easy doesn't mean it isn't the right choice.

[2sunny]

And that's exactly why you should be on your own - without any woman - for a

long while.

 

You're physically with your wife - but your mind is on the OW.

 

That's not even right or fair to your W.

 

Take time away - sort out YOUR mind - an then re enter ( or not) when you've sorted out how you REALLY feel.

 

Then commit to that person (or not).

 

 

You can still work, be involved with your kids etc...

 

Work on what's right.

 

Find what makes you happy all on your own - then offer your happy self to others.

 

Betraying everyone - including self - is not a solution.

[anne1707]

Ever see the Newhart spoof..."Stop it!"? He's a therapist...and that's what he tells his patients.

 

Silly...hilarious actually...but also, very true.

 

When you find yourself thinking about OW...STOP IT!!! Stop for a moment, recognize that's what you're doing...and deliberately and intentionally change your focus onto something else instead. Like changing the channels on your TV.

 

It's not easy, but it quickly gets easier with practice.

 

Look up the Newhart thing on youtube. You'll get a good chuckle out of it.

 

But...it's also a good mental technique to learn.

 

Simply stop LETTING YOURSELF stay focused on OW when she comes to mind.

 

After a while...you get no benefit from thinking about her at all...she fades in importance in your mind.

.

 

Quoted for truth

 

I love this clip and it helped save my marriage after my affair. Use it just the way Owl is telling you now and just the way he told me to six years ago.

 

Google it shermantor and listen to the wise old bird

[waterwoman]

Just watched it! I think that is the most succinct therapy session I have ever seen. Makes me wonder how many therapists are secretly thinking the same and rolling their eyes... Heard it all before. Stop it!

[2sunny]

You're on vacation with your wife - and your mind and heart are focused on the OW.

 

That's still cheating your wife out of the husband she THINKS she has.

 

You're not really there - participating fully to connect with your W.

 

So in you ability to be dishonest - you're not really on that vacation with your W.

 

That is just cruel to your W. How much longer do you plan to steal from her, the husband she COULD have?

[shermanator]

Actually, you CAN change your mental dynamics.

 

BS's have to learn to do it all the time when learning to cope with 'triggers' post affair.

 

Ever see the Newhart spoof..."Stop it!"? He's a therapist...and that's what he tells his patients.

 

Silly...hilarious actually...but also, very true.

 

When you find yourself thinking about OW...STOP IT!!! Stop for a moment, recognize that's what you're doing...and deliberately and intentionally change your focus onto something else instead. Like changing the channels on your TV.

 

It's not easy, but it quickly gets easier with practice.

 

Look up the Newhart thing on youtube. You'll get a good chuckle out of it.

 

But...it's also a good mental technique to learn.

 

Simply stop LETTING YOURSELF stay focused on OW when she comes to mind.

 

After a while...you get no benefit from thinking about her at all...she fades in importance in your mind.

 

BTW...this is another reason why I advocate telling your wife. Focusing on rebuilding your marriage will REMOVE your focus from OW. You'll see all these negative outcomes of your affair, and suddenly that rosy glow fades pretty damned quick.

 

This is sound advice, I think.

 

This is almost exactly what my IC has told me and I'm working on it... I've thought long and hard about the negative outcomes, the fallout from moving out of our house, telling the kids, etc... I had all those reservations and conversations with the OW when we were still having an EA.

 

So, I'm working on forgetting about her. Lots of triggers, obstacles at home... fewer on vacation, but still having trouble.

[shermanator]

You're on vacation with your wife - and your mind and heart are focused on the OW.

 

That's still cheating your wife out of the husband she THINKS she has.

 

You're not really there - participating fully to connect with your W.

 

So in you ability to be dishonest - you're not really on that vacation with your W.

 

That is just cruel to your W. How much longer do you plan to steal from her, the husband she COULD have?

 

It's like you added this post just to yell at me. I understand your point of view...

[2sunny]

It's like you added this post just to yell at me. I understand your point of view...

 

I didn't yell at you.

 

But I sure noticed you avoided answering the question.

 

Really, how long is your wife expected to live without her real husband?

 

Why is she supposed to continue getting short changed of a partner?

[katielee]

shermanator - this entire thread has been about you and your needs. What about your wife? The mother of your children, does she get to have an authentic life or are you going to keep this from her? Can you put her first for once??

[beatcuff]

shermanator - this entire thread has been about you and your needs. What about your wife? ...

 

disagree on this. while he does owes his wife something, he first needs to get his 'wants' in order.

 

as for the "STOP IT" --- i enjoyed Newhart and understand what it means but seriously you can't make someone love (or re-love) another.

[Owl]

This is sound advice, I think.

 

This is almost exactly what my IC has told me and I'm working on it... I've thought long and hard about the negative outcomes, the fallout from moving out of our house, telling the kids, etc... I had all those reservations and conversations with the OW when we were still having an EA.

 

So, I'm working on forgetting about her. Lots of triggers, obstacles at home... fewer on vacation, but still having trouble.

 

My experience is that most people engaged in an affair truly DON'T think all that long and hard about the consequences while they're in it.

 

And thinking about them during the affair is NOTHING to actually dealing with trying to recover and rebuild your marriage into something better.

 

But, I've made my point. You know you should tell...but you've made up your mind not to.

 

I've got nothing more for you unless something changes your mind.

[Owl]

disagree on this. while he does owes his wife something, he first needs to get his 'wants' in order.

 

as for the "STOP IT" --- i enjoyed Newhart and understand what it means but seriously you can't make someone love (or re-love) another.

 

WE'll have to disagree on the concept of 'love" here, I think.

 

I'm not convinced he's in love with the OW...I think he's infatuated by her, by the thought of being with her.

 

You end infatuation by not feeding it, not focusing on it. Which is exactly what I'm suggesting.