BS role or part in the affair

[purplesorrow]

I think it's actually quite straight forward, and much simpler.

 

Affairs do not generally happen in a vacuum. There are conditions. Not least of which are the conditions of having someone with whom you want to have an affair.

 

I understand the BS desire not to allow "blame-shifting", I am, as a BS, in that camp. But I think reducing "reasons" and "justifications" to the entire complex conditions of affairs is missing something.

 

A marriage is the foundation upon which an affair emerges. This is obvious.

In the VAST majority of cases, certainly the cases here in LS, the WS is living in (experiencing) conditions not favorable to the marriage (this can be everything from the love is gone, the passion is gone, sex is being withheld, internet porn addiction, I don't feel needed, I dont feel whatever. I suffered a depression, my wife's pregnancy turned me off)

 

There is no shortage of things that can be unbalancing what was once a well functioning marriage.

 

NOW we HAVE 2 SPOUSES who have to deal with the problem.

 

What are the solutions?

 

1) invest in other activities (join a hockey team, take up yoga, go out more on girls night out, drink more heavily, go to the gym, masturbate more, put more energy into the life of the kids) whatever: basically get your needs met through alternatives.

 

2) talk about the issues with SO. (some have tried, some dont bother, have given up, some cannot communicate) or talk with some close friends to get advice on how to adjust behaviour at home (or a IC, MC)

 

3) Separate and/or divorce (always and option)

 

4) slide into an affair (quickly, slowly, unintentionally, intentionally, as revenge, as an attempt to find a way out once you dump the M, as a test) Many simply take solution 2, and find themselves doing that here in solution 4 beginning with opening up with a co-worker or close friend (Shirley Glass style affair)

 

So, for me, there are two aspects to an affair:

 

a) the preconditions that unsettled both (or one) spouse (the things they blame shift)

b) the decision to cheat among all other decisions.

 

It's no surprise a BS wants ONLY to focus on b) (and rightly so, there were other OPTIONS! and a WS (whether accepting or blame-shifting) wants to focus on a)

 

So yes, the decision to cheat, the choice among the 4 I present (and most probably there are others, but I'm not here to provide complete taxonomies) RESTS ENTIRELY upon the shoulders of the WS. But can we not at least acknowledge the the preconditions of the unstable marriage contributed to THAT DECISION?

 

The thing is, if I choose strategies 1, 2, 3 the problem does not go away. My marriage is still in trouble and I am merely avoiding it, or displacing it. Displacing problems does not make them go away, because I am still draining the marriage of vital aspects to its health and longevity (for example, I invested more in my daughter while my wife was unbeknownst to me, engaging in an affair with a co-worker. Her choice was number 4, to cheat, my role in this marriage was in 1: invest more emotional life in my daughters busy life, and a bit of 2) complain to my wife she works too much, and complain to friends instead of my wife about what she needed to do.

 

My wife chose to cheat, and I chose not to, not because the conditions didn't present themselves, but because I don't want to cheat and I found fulfillment in my other solutions.

 

My wife believed that her solution to her problem was to find another man with whom she felt she could get what she was supposed to be getting from me.

 

So I partly agree with you. I think men who cheat, as in your example, during their wife's pregnancy, is a general social phenomenon: "it happens a lot". These men might NOT have cheated had their wives not been pregnant at that moment in their lives. Conditions for cheating matter. They were not "cheaters" looking for an excuse (pregnant unattractive ignoring wife). Yes, we have to ask WHY they chose THAT OPTION among other solutions available to them, but to dismess ENTIRELY the needs they FELT for SOMETHING MORE or SOMETHING MISSING that they once felt in a marriage, or never felt and suddenly realise it's a basic need is NOT, to me, something to dismiss.

 

Now if after all that explanation someone is going to tell me I'm basically letting the WS blame the BS for his/her choice to cheat, there is no hope for civil and reasoned discussion in LS. IMO.

 

I see what you are saying and can agree on some points. What if the WS created the conditions to cheat? My WS started getting a lot of attention from women at a new job. He is happy and secure (his words) in what he has at home, he just wanted extra! The more attention he got the more he withdrew at home. He needed to feel disconnected with me so he could cheat. It was easy to see the change and feel the distance. But when it was brought up in conversation, I would be told I'm worrying too much, just stress from the job. Before he even had an ap he set up a secret google number and email account because of course he never thought about leaving.

[woinlove]

Fellini, I agree that different people have different conditions under which they will cheat - some will cheat no matter what and some will not cheat no matter what and there is a lot in-between those two as far as "conditions" for any individual to decide to have an affair.

 

However, it doesn't have much to do with the OP, does it? She is divorcing so the conditions her WS considers appropriate for cheating are not an ongoing concern for her. The question she posed as to whether a BS has to accept some responsibility for the WS's affair is simple and you seem to agree the answer is no.

 

ETA: on conditions, one of the most obvious conditions for an affair that I witnessed is a man in my social circle who cheated when his wife suddenly became very ill and it wasn't clear whether she would live. While she made a surprising recovery a few months later, it was too late, he had already turned to someone else for comfort, someone who was looking to get out of a bad marriage, and that led to an affair. All rather sad, as his wife found out and they divorced. He says he was happily married but just couldn't deal with losing his wife and, yet, he chose a path and ended up with that very outcome. Yes, individuals who have affairs have their own conditions and for them to come to understand these is an important lesson for them.

Edited April 22, 2014 by woinlove

[waterwoman]

Oh, he spends plenty of time accepting his role in the affair. I just look here and realize, NO BS accepts her responsibility in her part of her WS having one.

 

The affair is worse than ANYTHING. Yeah. Worse than being turned away for YEARS. Being told you are only good for YOUR MONEY. Yeah. That is all good too. OR, the worst: YOU MAKE ME LOOK GOOD TO THE PUBLIC AT LARGE.

 

It must KILL BS'S that WS are willing to risk all to get that validity. Why aren't you giving it? And I'm sure I'll hear : we DID. No, you didn't.

 

Enjoy your evening. You and your WS both failed. Not just the WS, but the BS.

 

Don't bother to respond.

 

As long as you deny this, be defensive of this, you'll fail.

 

Enjoy.

#

 

Goody, can't you see that most marriages that falter or even fail do so not because one or even both parties are deliberately choosing to hurt or neglect each other. They fail because life gets in the way. No-one, other than a total sociopath, marries another person with the expectation of being miserable or making them miserable. It just happens. And you can both look at the situation and say 'OK, this isn't good, we must do something about it' and you do, you make more effort, then something else more immediately pressing comes along (children or work related) and the marriage gets relegated to second place... again.

 

And because it's a marriage (for better or worse, as long as you both shall live) you convince yourself that there will be time.... later, when X is over with, when Y isnt taking up so much time. And it isn't because you don't care, you do, both of you, but there isn't enough time and energy, and sometimes one of you has the time or the energy and the other doesn't. And you start to get resentful of each other because of all this and after a while the will to fix things ebbs away.

 

And its all very well to say 'I would never neglect my marriage like that'. Don't you think everyone thinks that to start with? I can honestly tell you when things got really bad with us. When our third child was born.

 

So, look at it this way. There are two people who are both, in different ways, neglecting their primary relationship. And I can assure you that both of them are. Eventually one of them takes the opportunity to salve their wounds with an affair. Only one of them does this. The other remains faithful, attempting to keep the relationship ticking along, and finding it even harder than before (they don't yet know why). Then they find out why. Can you imagine how much it hurts? They have been feeling pretty damned mserable and unvalidated, and taken for granted, but they didn't choose to cheat. It hurts so much. The rejection and the sense of worthlessness, and the big bloody slap in the face for being the stupid one who carried on trying!

 

The things is my H never blamed me. There was a foggy 24 hr period before he confessed completely, when he made vague statements about things not having been good since DS2 was born, and not knowing what he wanted and whether he wanted to stay. But that disappeared like frost in the sun when the reality of what he was saying hit him. He was full of remorse, horrified at his behaviour, did everything I needed him to do. He didnt once say it was my fault, in fact he gets upset with me when I try to take the blame for his affair. He knows that both of us made our bed, but of the two of us, he was the one who was the most neglectful and selfish. He wanted to ease my pain, he wanted to heal me. But even so it has taken me nearly 2 years to feel OK.

 

So, this is the nub " I just look here and realize, NO BS accepts her responsibility in her part of her WS having one". That should be the case. I refuse to acccept that anything I did caused my H to have an affair. There is nothing anyone can do to cause a partner to have an affair. If there was I guess I should have been having one too.

 

I am guessing that with your chap, the affair was simply an exit from a one-sided marriage which had made him unhappy for years. And good for him. I can see how much you love him and how much it hurts to see him criticised. But you see he isn't being criticised. When people on here complain about THEIR WS, and even about other WS, they aren't talking about your man, they aren't talking about your situation. Not all affairs are the same, not every man who cheats is being neglected at home, and yes, not all BS are long-suffering perfect saintly women.

[waterwoman]

"So, for me, there are two aspects to an affair:

 

a) the preconditions that unsettled both (or one) spouse (the things they blame shift)

b) the decision to cheat among all other decisions. "

 

Yes, that is true. For most WS b wouldn't have come to pass without a.

 

Very few decisions are made in absolute isolation. If I choose to drive drunk I could point at a million little factors that made that stupid decision possible, but none of them excuse it.

[fellini]

I see what you are saying and can agree on some points. What if the WS created the conditions to cheat? My WS started getting a lot of attention from women at a new job. He is happy and secure (his words) in what he has at home, he just wanted extra! The more attention he got the more he withdrew at home. He needed to feel disconnected with me so he could cheat. It was easy to see the change and feel the distance. But when it was brought up in conversation, I would be told I'm worrying too much, just stress from the job. Before he even had an ap he set up a secret google number and email account because of course he never thought about leaving.

 

I see your point. But I think it sits outside of the parameters of what I was saying. Generally, my response is that if someone creates (consciously or not) problems in themselves (or the marriage for that matter) then this is someone who is deceiving themselves about where the problem lies.

 

My argument was founded on people who fall madly in love, get married, and find out that the "happily" in the ever after has stopped working. But if the "happy" is my desire to have more and varied sexual partners, then this is not a problem in the marriage, it's a problem in me. I would say that it is equally true for example if one of the spouses suffered from sexual addiction. Nothing I said about blame can be applied to a married couple in which sexual addiction is the motive for cheating. And I don't think all affairs occur only because one or both spouses are having trouble in the relationship.

 

Equally true is a case in my own family, although not formally diagnosed, my brother has been "married" 3-4 times. Actually, in common law relationships, because he seems to have a thing about what some psychologists (I think Glass talks about it) not being able to finish relationships. He lives almost entirely for the chase, and the so-called honeymoon period. He would spend years with what seemed to be a perfectly good match then go looking for the next "best thing". Now of course his problem becomes a problem for both, and in fact he would self-deceive that the problem was in the union, but it was clear that it was not, it was simply the emotional connection wore off for him as soon as something "more exciting" appeared on the horizon.

 

Now if you wed this type of person, your marriage is not going to last beyond the next excitement.

 

But I will say that what happened with your H happened also with my WS. She is somewhat of a narcissist and puts too much value on external validation, to be generous, and when she started to get external validation from a single available divorced man, who happened to clearly have a fetish for women's breasts, well.... that's what eventually brought me here.

And in her case I asked the same thing - "Why?" "Because my needs were not being met". And eventually through months of post A discussion she acknowledged that it wasn't so much that I wasn't meeting her needs as that as her AP began to take over meeting her needs, she withdrew them from requiring them from me. Typical of a narcissist who thinks they are entitled, and that happiness and satisfaction come from external, rather than internal sources.

Edited April 22, 2014 by fellini

[fellini]

You see I don't like the wording "the conditions her WS considers appropriate for cheating..." because I don't believe I said or implied that there ae conditions appropriate for cheating, but rather, there are conditions appropriate for feeling the marriage is not what it used to be (or what one imagined it would be) It stops there.

 

People live actual fluid lives, they do not necessarily "grasp" one day, and say to themselves. You know, I don't feel so good in this marriage, I think Ill have an affair... hmmmm but with whom... oh that guy in human resources, he blah blah blah. No I think people are often not necessarily consciously aware that changes in their emotional connection with their SO have changed and these changes open up spaces for others to fill. And as I said, others, or other things.

 

Within this "phase" or rut within a marriage, it might be that someone presents themselves, completely unaware, as someone to share this connection with: and this can be done TALKING DIRECTLY ABOUT your marital problem, or equally over coffee about how much you liked "12 Years as a slave" and before you know it you are entering into some pretty emotional topics and wow, this guy and I are compatible.... boom.

 

So Im not sure why you think my post does not address the OP, because I think that is entirely what I talked about, and it is a topic that has circulated 10000 time in LS: How can we discuss the role of the BS in the ambiance within which an infidelity takes place. And my answer is that it CAN be that simple, a BS can be participating (consciously or not) in a rupture in the well-being of a marriage, and then we have only to look at how the WS has responded. A WS takes FULL responsibility for making the DECISION to solve his/her problems outside the marriage with another human being with whom they suddenly find themselves in an affair.

 

In her case, the M was seeking divorce, and I think her responses to the MC are completely appropriate, especially if their marriage was more or less intact and the real issue was a WS who couldn't resist the chase even though for some stupid reason he thought he should "settle down" and marry, when in fact, he was never ready to do so.

 

Fellini, I agree that different people have different conditions under which they will cheat - some will cheat no matter what and some will not cheat no matter what and there is a lot in-between those two as far as "conditions" for any individual to decide to have an affair.

 

However, it doesn't have much to do with the OP, does it? She is divorcing so the conditions her WS considers appropriate for cheating are not an ongoing concern for her. The question she posed as to whether a BS has to accept some responsibility for the WS's affair is simple and you seem to agree the answer is no.

 

ETA: on conditions, one of the most obvious conditions for an affair that I witnessed is a man in my social circle who cheated when his wife suddenly became very ill and it wasn't clear whether she would live. While she made a surprising recovery a few months later, it was too late, he had already turned to someone else for comfort, someone who was looking to get out of a bad marriage, and that led to an affair. All rather sad, as his wife found out and they divorced. He says he was happily married but just couldn't deal with losing his wife and, yet, he chose a path and ended up with that very outcome. Yes, individuals who have affairs have their own conditions and for them to come to understand these is an important lesson for them.

[goodyblue]

#

 

Goody, can't you see that most marriages that falter or even fail do so not because one or even both parties are deliberately choosing to hurt or neglect each other. They fail because life gets in the way. No-one, other than a total sociopath, marries another person with the expectation of being miserable or making them miserable. It just happens. And you can both look at the situation and say 'OK, this isn't good, we must do something about it' and you do, you make more effort, then something else more immediately pressing comes along (children or work related) and the marriage gets relegated to second place... again.

 

And because it's a marriage (for better or worse, as long as you both shall live) you convince yourself that there will be time.... later, when X is over with, when Y isnt taking up so much time. And it isn't because you don't care, you do, both of you, but there isn't enough time and energy, and sometimes one of you has the time or the energy and the other doesn't. And you start to get resentful of each other because of all this and after a while the will to fix things ebbs away.

 

And its all very well to say 'I would never neglect my marriage like that'. Don't you think everyone thinks that to start with? I can honestly tell you when things got really bad with us. When our third child was born.

 

So, look at it this way. There are two people who are both, in different ways, neglecting their primary relationship. And I can assure you that both of them are. Eventually one of them takes the opportunity to salve their wounds with an affair. Only one of them does this. The other remains faithful, attempting to keep the relationship ticking along, and finding it even harder than before (they don't yet know why). Then they find out why. Can you imagine how much it hurts? They have been feeling pretty damned mserable and unvalidated, and taken for granted, but they didn't choose to cheat. It hurts so much. The rejection and the sense of worthlessness, and the big bloody slap in the face for being the stupid one who carried on trying!

 

The things is my H never blamed me. There was a foggy 24 hr period before he confessed completely, when he made vague statements about things not having been good since DS2 was born, and not knowing what he wanted and whether he wanted to stay. But that disappeared like frost in the sun when the reality of what he was saying hit him. He was full of remorse, horrified at his behaviour, did everything I needed him to do. He didnt once say it was my fault, in fact he gets upset with me when I try to take the blame for his affair. He knows that both of us made our bed, but of the two of us, he was the one who was the most neglectful and selfish. He wanted to ease my pain, he wanted to heal me. But even so it has taken me nearly 2 years to feel OK.

 

So, this is the nub " I just look here and realize, NO BS accepts her responsibility in her part of her WS having one". That should be the case. I refuse to acccept that anything I did caused my H to have an affair. There is nothing anyone can do to cause a partner to have an affair. If there was I guess I should have been having one too.

 

I am guessing that with your chap, the affair was simply an exit from a one-sided marriage which had made him unhappy for years. And good for him. I can see how much you love him and how much it hurts to see him criticised. But you see he isn't being criticised. When people on here complain about THEIR WS, and even about other WS, they aren't talking about your man, they aren't talking about your situation. Not all affairs are the same, not every man who cheats is being neglected at home, and yes, not all BS are long-suffering perfect saintly women.

 

I hear you. Thank you for being kind and seeing all sides. xx

[fellini]

ETA: on conditions, one of the most obvious conditions for an affair that I witnessed is a man in my social circle who cheated when his wife suddenly became very ill and it wasn't clear whether she would live. While she made a surprising recovery a few months later, it was too late, he had already turned to someone else for comfort, someone who was looking to get out of a bad marriage, and that led to an affair. All rather sad, as his wife found out and they divorced. He says he was happily married but just couldn't deal with losing his wife and, yet, he chose a path and ended up with that very outcome. Yes, individuals who have affairs have their own conditions and for them to come to understand these is an important lesson for them.

 

Interesting. But if my wife were hospitalized, and it was only not CLEAR whether she would live, I wouldn't be out looking for a replacement.

 

I might understand that her possible imminent death shook him with the idea that he would be alone and that selfish thought took on more power over his behaviour than her health. Or the crisis of his ill spouse had him in such an emotional situation that any woman with a good ear who was willing to sit and listen to him would make a perfect target for the equivalent of "transference", a very common occurrence among people going through crises.

 

But again, its possible that he didn't "go out and look for a new model wife" but rather, due to circumstances, found himself too open emotionally to stop the flow, nor could he summon up the self-control to stop it when he knew where it was leading to.

[Steadfast]

To many therapists the common practice is to absolve. Share the credit, share the blame. Make everyone feel equal and portray actions as subjective 'choice'. Not good, not bad. The desired result is to make everyone equally willing to pay for more. It's smart business to not cut profits in half.

 

If this reasoning was applied to society the prisons would be empty.

 

Please everyone, do your homework on therapists.

[Spectre]

I'm sorry guys, but this is going in circles and I think we need to just get back to one fact: no, the BS plays NO part in an affair. I'm sorry, this is NOT mere opinion, this is a fact. Trying to argue otherwise is like trying to argue that 2+2 does not equal 4. You are NEVER going to be able to successfully argue it, so why bother?

 

It's certainly true a spouse can make their partner feel like they are being taken advantage of/ignored/whatever excuse you have, but it is up to you to choose how to deal with it. If you choose to do so via sex with others all you have to blame is yourself and whoever you started screwing. It's just painful to try to see people arguing otherwise. Almost as painful as a recent debate I watched on youtube where Bill Nye The Science Guy was debating a creationist. Nye was arguing for evolution, the other guy wasn't and it was an utter train wreck and the guy just didn't seem to understand how foolish he sounds when faced with concrete facts.

 

Attitudes like this don't help a single person. It doesn't help the betrayed, it surely doesn't help the betrayer, so what on Earth would possess someone to take this view? It always comes off like a cheater trying to justify shady actions, which actually just makes said actions even shadier. Was that the goal, then? To come off as worse then before? That approach makes no sense unless you are purposely trying to make sure you never reconcile or are even ever forgiven(since they are not one and the same).

Edited April 22, 2014 by Spectre

[HermioneG]

Bravo to the post above.

 

Infidelity is a personal problem, not a marital one. And until that premise is accepted, no one can heal. Not the betrayed spouse, not the affair partner, and most of all, not the wayward partner.

[burnside.rose]

It's certainly true a spouse can make their partner feel like they are being taken advantage of/ignored/whatever excuse you have, but it is up to you to choose how to deal with it. If you choose to do so via sex with others all you have to blame is yourself and whoever you started screwing.

 

well put. big ups.

[woinlove]

Interesting. But if my wife were hospitalized, and it was only not CLEAR whether she would live, I wouldn't be out looking for a replacement.

 

I might understand that her possible imminent death shook him with the idea that he would be alone and that selfish thought took on more power over his behaviour than her health. Or the crisis of his ill spouse had him in such an emotional situation that any woman with a good ear who was willing to sit and listen to him would make a perfect target for the equivalent of "transference", a very common occurrence among people going through crises.

 

But again, its possible that he didn't "go out and look for a new model wife" but rather, due to circumstances, found himself too open emotionally to stop the flow, nor could he summon up the self-control to stop it when he knew where it was leading to.

 

We are all different. Some people won't cheat no matter what, some cheat at a drop of a hat, some are in-between.

 

In this case, he had not cheated previously and no reason to think he would have cheated at that time had his wife not become so ill. I don't think he thought at the time, my wife might die so I should have an affair. Instead, he worried about her dying, his future without her, and a woman who probably did want an affair (she's had several affairs) offered solace and comfort. He says he was weak and she was understanding. Of course, ultimately it does come down to his own weaknesses and how he deals with things and he and he alone is responsible for his decision to have an affair. But still, this seems like a pretty clear cut case of what I thought you were talking about - what you called "preconditions".

[janedoe67]

I don't think it's a matter of people not knowing a M can be bad before an A. I him people know a WS can have real pre-A hurts. They just don care.

[fellini]

I don't think it's a matter of people not knowing a M can be bad before an A. I him people know a WS can have real pre-A hurts. They just don care.

 

I think its a dubious theory that can say that a spouse just decides one day to go out and have an affair. That a spouse simple decides his marriage is not an issue. Just felt like doing it.

 

Now of course this can happen, but this is not the prototype upon which infidelity begins. Just reading the stories here in LS reveals that.

[Zenstudent]

I think its a dubious theory that can say that a spouse just decides one day to go out and have an affair. That a spouse simple decides his marriage is not an issue. Just felt like doing it.

 

Now of course this can happen, but this is not the prototype upon which infidelity begins. Just reading the stories here in LS reveals that.

Does it really? Most real life stories I know of, the key is pure cake eating - sometimes followed by rationalization and justification. On a no-need-to-know-basis it seems, what you don't know won't kill you.

 

I don't think the thought process in these scenarios is that the unfaithfull partner just wake up one day and decide to cheat, more like the opportunity presented itself, I said "why not? He/she doesn't need to know anything about it - more cake for me"

 

Simplified of course, but IMO, it's a valid script as well. The betrayed partner doesn't stand a chance the first time it happens.

[ladydesigner]

I'm sorry guys, but this is going in circles and I think we need to just get back to one fact: no, the BS plays NO part in an affair. I'm sorry, this is NOT mere opinion, this is a fact. Trying to argue otherwise is like trying to argue that 2+2 does not equal 4. You are NEVER going to be able to successfully argue it, so why bother?

 

It's certainly true a spouse can make their partner feel like they are being taken advantage of/ignored/whatever excuse you have, but it is up to you to choose how to deal with it. If you choose to do so via sex with others all you have to blame is yourself and whoever you started screwing. It's just painful to try to see people arguing otherwise. Almost as painful as a recent debate I watched on youtube where Bill Nye The Science Guy was debating a creationist. Nye was arguing for evolution, the other guy wasn't and it was an utter train wreck and the guy just didn't seem to understand how foolish he sounds when faced with concrete facts.

 

Attitudes like this don't help a single person. It doesn't help the betrayed, it surely doesn't help the betrayer, so what on Earth would possess someone to take this view? It always comes off like a cheater trying to justify shady actions, which actually just makes said actions even shadier. Was that the goal, then? To come off as worse then before? That approach makes no sense unless you are purposely trying to make sure you never reconcile or are even ever forgiven(since they are not one and the same).

 

 

Bingo! Great post!

Edited April 22, 2014 by ladydesigner

[woinlove]

I think its a dubious theory that can say that a spouse just decides one day to go out and have an affair. That a spouse simple decides his marriage is not an issue. Just felt like doing it.

 

Now of course this can happen, but this is not the prototype upon which infidelity begins. Just reading the stories here in LS reveals that.

 

I agree. Maybe in some one night stands that is the case. But most affairs are a continual series of decisions, often involving stages of intimacy, sexual relations, continued contact and all of these involve decisions and actions.

 

So an affair over some extended time lasting more than a day typically involves an ongoing decision to have and continue an affair, ongoing until the person decides to stop having an affair either by ending the affair with the AP or ending the M. Of course, some never decide to stop having an affair - the BS may find out and end the M or they may go to their grave leading a double life.

 

As to "just felt like it", a small number have posted on LS in the early stages, sometimes when they are just thinking of having an A but the AP doesn't know yet, and yes, they mostly say they feel like it, feel like it *a lot*. Usually, almost everyone advises them not to have an A, but it doesn't seem to have any impact. Once someone has started to convince themselves they want to have an A, they seem too far gone to talk out of it. A lot of self-delusion and denial seems fairly typical at this stage. They think they can have an A and it won't affect their M or no one will find out about it or it can simply be just sex and no emotions, or they'll go back to all being friends with each other and each others spouses after they get this affair out of their system, etc. etc.

Edited April 22, 2014 by woinlove

[Spectre]

I agree. Maybe in some one night stands that is the case. But most affairs are a continual series of decisions, often involving stages of intimacy, sexual relations, continued contact and all of these involve decisions and actions.

 

The thing is, even with one night stands that really isn't an excuse. Having a one night stand doesn't mean you didn't have a decision in the matter. Maybe that day you didn't wake up with the intention to cheat, but you surely ended up following down a path that led to it. If that happens, well..it is no excuse still. You still have every chance to say no and to stop things before they get too far. Especially since most of the time a one night stand happens the person knowingly puts themselves in a situation that may lead to cheating. It doesn't just accidentally happen. You do not trip and fall and end up in bed with someone. There is a very clear course of actions that need to take place before the actual sex starts.

 

In other words: people always have plenty of ways out, if you decide not to use them then it is your own fault. It is like being on a sinking ship and seeing a lifeboat and merely running right past it and allowing yourself to go down with the ship. You had a way to save yourself, but you chose not to.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Spectre

[HermioneG]

Does it really? Most real life stories I know of, the key is pure cake eating - sometimes followed by rationalization and justification. On a no-need-to-know-basis it seems, what you don't know won't kill you.

 

I don't think the thought process in these scenarios is that the unfaithfull partner just wake up one day and decide to cheat, more like the opportunity presented itself, I said "why not? He/she doesn't need to know anything about it - more cake for me"

 

Simplified of course, but IMO, it's a valid script as well. The betrayed partner doesn't stand a chance the first time it happens.

 

This is the scenario I am most familiar with- add in the wayward spouse's overly excessive need for validation in most cases ( I call it "hole in their praise bucket syndrome") and you've got yerself a big ole mess.

[janedoe67]

This is the scenario I am most familiar with- add in the wayward spouse's overly excessive need for validation in most cases ( I call it "hole in their praise bucket syndrome") and you've got yerself a big ole mess.

 

Case in point.

 

Once a WS utters the words "I cheated," nobody gives a damn what the rest of their life might have been like, and they sure can't allow themselves to believes that some WS's tried everything they could possibly think of the hekp the marriage and be good enough to actually be wanted by the person who had supposedly promised to love them

 

The only thing that matters is "I cheated."

 

I get it, and I agree. NOTHING justifies an A. My H played no part in my cheating choice.

 

He played a hell of a lot in our marriage problems, and I am NOT the only person that is true for, no matter how much it might bother someone.

 

Anyone who has read the bulk of my posts knows I hate affairs, I hare my choice, and I take complete responsibility for being selfish and wrong enough to choose to cheat.

 

So any remark about "justifying" is intentional blindness, bitterness, or ignorance.

[goodyblue]

This is the scenario I am most familiar with- add in the wayward spouse's overly excessive need for validation in most cases ( I call it "hole in their praise bucket syndrome") and you've got yerself a big ole mess.

 

I'm so glad you posted this. This explains SO much about your view.

[snappytomcat]

Case in point.

 

Once a WS utters the words "I cheated," nobody gives a damn what the rest of their life might have been like, and they sure can't allow themselves to believes that some WS's tried everything they could possibly think of the hekp the marriage and be good enough to actually be wanted by the person who had supposedly promised to love them

 

The only thing that matters is "I cheated."

 

I get it, and I agree. NOTHING justifies an A. My H played no part in my cheating choice.

 

He played a hell of a lot in our marriage problems, and I am NOT the only person that is true for, no matter how much it might bother someone.

 

Anyone who has read the bulk of my posts knows I hate affairs, I hare my choice, and I take complete responsibility for being selfish and wrong enough to choose to cheat.

 

So any remark about "justifying" is intentional blindness, bitterness, or ignorance.

jane

I for one enjoy reading what you write,cause as a bs you might not know this,but you have helped me a lot,especially to understand my fws,i know what he did was just awful,and believe me he knows he royally f*cked up,but I believe if someone is truly remorseful but something they did,that shouldn't define them as a person.

my husband is a good man,good father,and to me his a,does not define what kind of a person he is,hes been a good husband for 17 years,and 3 years he screwed up,well I can decide to leave him,or work on our marriage,or be a bitter nasty person,so I have decided to r,and its been hard road,but like him I don't label you as a cheater,you made a mistake,that you are totally sorry for,no one is perfect,we all screw up one way or another

[janedoe67]

jane

I for one enjoy reading what you write,cause as a bs you might not know this,but you have helped me a lot,especially to understand my fws,i know what he did was just awful,and believe me he knows he royally f*cked up,but I believe if someone is truly remorseful but something they did,that shouldn't define them as a person.

my husband is a good man,good father,and to me his a,does not define what kind of a person he is,hes been a good husband for 17 years,and 3 years he screwed up,well I can decide to leave him,or work on our marriage,or be a bitter nasty person,so I have decided to r,and its been hard road,but like him I don't label you as a cheater,you made a mistake,that you are totally sorry for,no one is perfect,we all screw up one way or another

 

I do appreciate that, and I believe with everything in me that an A is completely on the head of the person who chooses it. We ALWAYS have other choices; we may just not like them.

 

 

The truth that a BS does not cause an A is valid on its own. We don't need to add all this "WS don't have legitimate pain" and "It's always the WS who made the M unhappy" stuff. That just muddies things and takes credibility AWAY from the central truth.

 

No matter who made the M unhappy or for how long....it is STILL wrong to cheat.

[HermioneG]

Case in point.

 

Once a WS utters the words "I cheated," nobody gives a damn what the rest of their life might have been like, and they sure can't allow themselves to believes that some WS's tried everything they could possibly think of the hekp the marriage and be good enough to actually be wanted by the person who had supposedly promised to love them

 

The only thing that matters is "I cheated."

 

I get it, and I agree. NOTHING justifies an A. My H played no part in my cheating choice.

 

He played a hell of a lot in our marriage problems, and I am NOT the only person that is true for, no matter how much it might bother someone.

 

Anyone who has read the bulk of my posts knows I hate affairs, I hare my choice, and I take complete responsibility for being selfish and wrong enough to choose to cheat.

 

So any remark about "justifying" is intentional blindness, bitterness, or ignorance.

 

I have read this three times and I cannot figure out how this relates to my comment??

 

My spouse's situation is not yours, nor are most of the situations I am *personally* familiar with- and I have never ever stated that I don't care about what led my spouse, or those other spouses, to make their dysfunctional choices. I have never said I don't care about their pain.

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but if you are attempting to say that no one cares- I'm here to tell you, you are wrong. And I am really sorry if no one in your life has told you that. I always care when a person chooses a destructive path. No one chooses pain for a good reason.