BS role or part in the affair

[HermioneG]

I knew it wouldn't be popular to say. Doesn't make it any less true.

 

 

It's a personal issue to verbally, physically etc. abuse too. It isn't the victims fault.just like cheating isn't the BS's fault. Some relationship's are unhealthy and with that brings terrible choices and outcomes.

 

I had to look at myself as a BS too.

 

Not popular why?

 

I don't understand. If you were contributing in a negative and physically/verbally abusive way- that is absolutely a negative marital environment. Not the cause of your spouse's cheating, of course, but it is positive to recognize and change those things, if they are issues.

[BHsigh]

First session of mc last night for the upcoming divorce and co parenting. She asked my WH why we are divorcing, he responds because he had an affair. She then asks me if I have accepted my roll in the affair? So I said yes, as CIA to his secret agent and I busted up the operation. I had no other roll. It was his choice alone. He didn't have any conversations with me but then thought he could cheat with impunity. He did what he wanted for himself.

I then get the speech of how my marriage caused him to cheat. So I asked why I didn't cheat in the same marriage? No answer. I then asked since I must have been partly responsible for his cheating, does he get some credit for my fidelity? No answer. She told me I was hurt and angry, I said duh!! Can I have my $200.00 back? My cat could have given that assessment.

Is this the general consensus? That because our marriage wasn't perfect I have to accept responsibility for his affair. I accept I wasn't a perfect wife, but I did try. **i later found out she was a WW.

 

Yeah, it's easier for them to consider an affair a symptom, rather than the reaction to a symptom that it truly is. With a symptom you have no choice, it just happens, like a fever.

 

It's a way of blame shifting, nothing more. Pick a different counselor.

[BHsigh]

I like the idea of marriage counseling, but the fact appears to be that most of the counselors are just making things up as they go along. There are really next to no standards or norms, let alone verifiable data on effectiveness.

 

OTOH, I am a contrarian who does think that some BS are at fault in their M and have contributed unwittingly to the A. Any BS who ignores a spouse's pleas for change or fails spectacularly and willfully in living up to the marriage "bargain" shares some level of responsibility. Doesn't sound like you are one of them though.

 

I understand your point, but if you would have said divorce rather than affair I would have fully agreed with you.

 

Or better yet, contributed to the situation from which the WS chose to have an affair.

Edited April 18, 2014 by BHsigh

[dichotomy]

Wonderful responses to that therapist - smart ! ....you go girl !!!!!!!

 

If you go again - you ought to ask her how she has accepted her failings as OW in destroying another marriage !

 

No therapist I have ever seen (in first or current marriage) ever even hinted I was responsible. However, I have had some therapist who were timid in blaming WS. I got a better therapist who was willing to call a spade a spade, and then move on.

Edited April 18, 2014 by dichotomy

[janedoe67]

There are two roles in an A: the person who chooses to cheat and the person who chooses to aid and abet the cheating (unless they are both married, in which both are cheaters instead of one being a crappy cheater and the other just being crappy).

 

The BS is a person who may not be perfect, but who has been faithful and trusted in the fidelity of the person who promised it. And that person broke the promise, period.

 

Roles in the marriage may or may not be held up well. But the BS has no role in the A.

[snappytomcat]

I like the idea of marriage counseling, but the fact appears to be that most of the counselors are just making things up as they go along. There are really next to no standards or norms, let alone verifiable data on effectiveness.

 

OTOH, I am a contrarian who does think that some BS are at fault in their M and have contributed unwittingly to the A. Any BS who ignores a spouse's pleas for change or fails spectacularly and willfully in living up to the marriage "bargain" shares some level of responsibility. Doesn't sound like you are one of them though.

how about when the spouse never says something is wrong,i did im the bs,and I kept asking and pleading with my xws,if he was ok,if we were ok,he kept saying yes,just stressed from work,so there were never no pleas for change from him,but from me there was,and I didn't cheat,so how is someone supposed to fix something,and take blame when ws spouse kept saying everything is good,we never really fought,maybe just a couple of times,he cheated cause he wanted to plain and simple,im not innocent,but I tried to be the best friend,wife,and mother

[SoleMate]

To tomcat: In your example, I put full blame on the WS. You, the BS, were working hard to understand the marital issues and he was denying them.

 

Contrast a M where the spouse who is trying hard to understand the issues and fix the marriage is getting stonewalled. And then becomes a wayward. But this may be a t/j.

[fellini]

Yeah, it's easier for them to consider an affair a symptom, rather than the reaction to a symptom that it truly is. With a symptom you have no choice, it just happens, like a fever.

 

It's a way of blame shifting, nothing more. Pick a different counselor.

 

About a week before my WS went PA, she decided to go to her IC (for her depression) to get a second opinion (1st opinion came from her best friend who told her she will lose her husband and daughter if she sleeps with her co-worker)

 

Her therapist told her quite simply: Go home, talk to your husband, explain to him you have needs and get them met. Don't sleep with this man, and don't tell your husband about him.

 

Well she didn't take that advice either.

 

So after DDay, we went back to this IC for some MC. The first thing he said to my wife: How does your husband feel about being married to a f--ing slut?

 

WHOA!!! if I hadn't been only 4 days into trauma I would have fallen on the floor. She denied being a slut, of course, so he asked me, what do you think, don't you think she is a f--king slut?

 

No, I said. A slut no. A c--t.

 

We changed MC's. But the next one was no less clear: You OWN THIS. Stop talking about your husband. Look at what you have done to him! You have some serious issues to work through. He has others, thanks to the mess you have created...

 

End of MC.

[Appreciate]

Meaning your WS would not go back?

 

Those were some very direct MCs. The first one, wow. Those were really harsh words.. doesn't seem like a good way to establish a therapeutic relationship. Sounds more like he was just dishing out the punishment.

[fellini]

Meaning your WS would not go back?

 

Those were some very direct MCs. The first one, wow. Those were really harsh words.. doesn't seem like a good way to establish a therapeutic relationship. Sounds more like he was just dishing out the punishment.

 

The first one had been her hypnosis/therapist for two years and he was so shocked by what she had done, (no one who learns about this believes that she would ever do something so drastic) then dragging me into his office to help her fix the problem - he probably let it get to him! That and thinking about how he would feel had it been his wife!

 

The second one had to ask half way through the story.... "Wait a second, WHO had the affair? him or you?"...

 

I gave up MC because I could see that she was able to lie and manipulate the conversation as she saw fit and I saw no future in that for me.

[BHsigh]

About a week before my WS went PA, she decided to go to her IC (for her depression) to get a second opinion (1st opinion came from her best friend who told her she will lose her husband and daughter if she sleeps with her co-worker)

 

Her therapist told her quite simply: Go home, talk to your husband, explain to him you have needs and get them met. Don't sleep with this man, and don't tell your husband about him.

 

Well she didn't take that advice either.

 

So after DDay, we went back to this IC for some MC. The first thing he said to my wife: How does your husband feel about being married to a f--ing slut?

 

WHOA!!! if I hadn't been only 4 days into trauma I would have fallen on the floor. She denied being a slut, of course, so he asked me, what do you think, don't you think she is a f--king slut?

 

No, I said. A slut no. A c--t.

 

We changed MC's. But the next one was no less clear: You OWN THIS. Stop talking about your husband. Look at what you have done to him! You have some serious issues to work through. He has others, thanks to the mess you have created...

 

End of MC.

 

Oh wow, calling her a slut is crazy, she was clearly in it for the EA initially, she didn't just go after him for sex.

[fellini]

Oh wow, calling her a slut is crazy, she was clearly in it for the EA initially, she didn't just go after him for sex.

 

Exactly, hence my response. This was a relationship, not an affair, even if originally, she began looking at him as new H.

[goodyblue]

Yes, it is the WS choice %100. There are other vows though that seem to not matter after infidelity though. I was guilty of acting this way to my WH.

 

The breaking of any and all vows can be very painful. Being verbally/emotionally abused, physically abused...can have big affects on a person. Having your spouse talk down to you can cause unbelievable resentment. It isn't honoring your vows to do those things either. The answer isn't to cheat but at those times I doubt the WS is looking for a way to resolve things at home.

 

Some will poo poo the fact that those other actions are cruel as well. No excuse to be abusive in any form to your spouse and its a choice to do those things too.

 

Again, it is the WS choice to cheat. The BS can/has made cruel choices as well. After infidelity there could be work for both parties to do on themselves.

 

I must have said these things a hundred times and you're right, they immediately get shot down. But it is true, in my guy's situation, vows were broken much before his infidelity, and as far as he was concerned, they were just as important. A vow is a vow is a vow.

[HermioneG]

I must have said these things a hundred times and you're right, they immediately get shot down. But it is true, in my guy's situation, vows were broken much before his infidelity, and as far as he was concerned, they were just as important. A vow is a vow is a vow.

 

Unless you were there, you have no idea what actually occurred in their marriage. You are taking the word of an admitted liar in the place of evidence.

 

In the event that this is actually what happened , in the bed, this still shows horrible coping skills on the part of "your guy". It means he chose to face a problem operating from the premise of two wrongs make a right.

 

Icky. I'd watch out for that in the future.

[HermioneG]

I mean end, not bed. LOL!

[notserene]

I must have said these things a hundred times and you're right, they immediately get shot down. But it is true, in my guy's situation, vows were broken much before his infidelity, and as far as he was concerned, they were just as important. A vow is a vow is a vow.

 

I hear this a lot. The problem is, cheating crosses a line that breaks a specific vow. When does one "know" that one has broken other vows? Okay, maybe some betrayed spouses are abusive or stone cold but I don't think most are. If your husband or wife picks a fight with you or buys something expensive without consulting you, for example, does that give you an excuse to have sex with someone else? And, more importantly, why does someone else's transgression give you a license to commit your own?

 

[janedoe67]

When does one "know" that one has broken other vows?

 

When "one" sneaks upstairs to look at porn and chat.

 

When "one" has been talked with, cried to, begged and pleaded to be touched.

 

When "one" has blown through money gaming and sitting home.

 

When "one" has looked at one's spouse, who is dressed in a beautiful nightgown, and said, "sex is over in our marriage."

 

I bet "one" is pretty darn clear on the vows they have broken then.

 

NONE of that justifies cheating. Ever. Can we at least drop out sword long enough to acknowledge that breaking those vows can hurt?

 

Or are we THAT wrapped up in our own pain?

[spookysonata]

I hear this a lot. The problem is, cheating crosses a line that breaks a specific vow. When does one "know" that one has broken other vows? Okay, maybe some betrayed spouses are abusive or stone cold but I don't think most are. If your husband or wife picks a fight with you or buys something expensive without consulting you, for example, does that give you an excuse to have sex with someone else? And, more importantly, why does someone else's transgression give you a license to commit your own?

 

 

yes. This argument is nothing more than blameshifting, as far as I'm concerned.

[HermioneG]

When "one" sneaks upstairs to look at porn and chat.

 

When "one" has been talked with, cried to, begged and pleaded to be touched.

 

When "one" has blown through money gaming and sitting home.

 

When "one" has looked at one's spouse, who is dressed in a beautiful nightgown, and said, "sex is over in our marriage."

 

I bet "one" is pretty darn clear on the vows they have broken then.

 

NONE of that justifies cheating. Ever. Can we at least drop out sword long enough to acknowledge that breaking those vows can hurt?

 

Or are we THAT wrapped up in our own pain?

 

I don't think anyone has ever said these don't hurt. Have they? I think the distinction, and it is the same you made, is that cheating is different, and cheating is a personal problem that causes great pain in the aftermath.

 

I totally understand that there are marital issues that can hurt. For sure.

[BHsigh]

I mean end, not bed. LOL!

 

It still worked.

[goodyblue]

Unless you were there, you have no idea what actually occurred in their marriage. You are taking the word of an admitted liar in the place of evidence.

 

In the event that this is actually what happened , in the bed, this still shows horrible coping skills on the part of "your guy". It means he chose to face a problem operating from the premise of two wrongs make a right.

 

Icky. I'd watch out for that in the future.

 

Did you stay with your WS?

 

It is clear by your assumations that you, or any BS should immediately divorce, that they should not ever try to work things out with a known liar, that there is no forgiveness, no repentance, and that these people should be burnt at the stake. I hope you didn't stay with your known liar.

Edited April 20, 2014 by goodyblue

[HermioneG]

Did you stay with your WS?

 

Yep.

 

Mainly because he did not try to blame his poor actions on anyone other than himself. That's the hallmark of a person who owns their choices and can make positive forward motion. I deeply distrust people who look backwards and blame others and point fingers and say " he/she did it first!!". Had that ever happened, there would have been zero chance at a future.

 

( I see where you're going with this- and I get that you'll say next to watch out for the behavior. Thanks in advance. I've got an excellent grip on the situation. )

[HermioneG]

Did you stay with your WS?

 

It is clear by your assumations that you, or any BS should immediately divorce, that they should not ever try to work things out with a known liar, that there is no forgiveness, no repentance, and that these people should be burnt at the stake. I hope you didn't stay with your known liar.

 

I see your edit. You went where I predicted.

 

I believe in growth. And absolutely second chances. But not with a person who does not do the work and blame shifts. A person like that? Deserves to be left.

 

Which I suspect you understand, because you have to blame his ex(?) wife with the majority of your posts. It creates a pattern that shows that you really do get it. And it makes you uncomfortable, because you know he has not done the work . And I think that's a healthy part of your psyche. Pay attention.

[goodyblue]

I see your edit. You went where I predicted.

 

I believe in growth. And absolutely second chances. But not with a person who does not do the work and blame shifts. A person like that? Deserves to be left.

 

Which I suspect you understand, because you have to blame his ex(?) wife with the majority of your posts. It creates a pattern that shows that you really do get it. And it makes you uncomfortable, because you know he has not done the work . And I think that's a healthy part of your psyche. Pay attention.

 

My point was that you don't know what my guy does or doesn't blame things on. He doesn't blame his ex for his affair. He does blame her for shutting him out of her life and their married life.

 

I, on the other hand, have never been lied to and we don't shut eachother out.

 

So, I would look for the icky factor in your own situation rather than mine. Have a good day.

[fellini]

There are all kinds of betrayals, major and minor, that can occur ina marriage.

 

It took me 10 years to finaly realise that before my wife stepped out on our marriage that she had betrayed our marriage twice already. One was clearly not backing me while her sisters spent years bad mouthing and criticising me. Verbally abusing and provoking me, accusing me of trying to rofit from them, etc. She never once defended me or even tried to deny them. She was too busy accepting their criticism as a way to get me to change the way she wanted me.

 

When her affair came to light it was clear: part of her mental game of entitlement came from this process of devaluing me and her family dismissing me during 10 years. The second result of this betrayal was how her sisters tried to take advantage of the affair to prove to my WS that she was the victim and I was the problem. Kind of like, he must be so bad that you would go look for a better man.

 

Inthe end this strategy blew up in their face because I (see one of the other threads) have completely disowned them. I have gone NC with them, and this means even birthdays, christmas, whatever.

 

Ill consider attending their funerals, im not an ogre.

 

A major betrayal is a major betrayal. You can call it broken vows, but its all the same.

 

 

 

 

When "one" sneaks upstairs to look at porn and chat.

 

When "one" has been talked with, cried to, begged and pleaded to be touched.

 

When "one" has blown through money gaming and sitting home.

 

When "one" has looked at one's spouse, who is dressed in a beautiful nightgown, and said, "sex is over in our marriage."

 

I bet "one" is pretty darn clear on the vows they have broken then.

 

NONE of that justifies cheating. Ever. Can we at least drop out sword long enough to acknowledge that breaking those vows can hurt?

 

Or are we THAT wrapped up in our own pain?