Real relationship?

[Finally Settled]

I do not think you understand the points at all.

 

I specifically said online and vacations are your real life but in a limited context or compartmentalized context often, and that's the point of comparison between those and A relationships.

 

If you understood that you wouldn't have went on to explain how shut-ins use the internet and how your friend met a woman online as none of that was up for debate . I said nothing about online relationships not being "real", I said:

 

 

 

You also wouldn't have explained how your vacation is part of your real life, as I said:

 

I have read and re-read your original posts as well as the snippets you have quoted. I stand by my interpretation of what you have written. I see many 'buts' in your words and I was responding with my thoughts, rather than debate, regarding what I was reading.

[MissBee]

I have read and re-read your original posts as well as the snippets you have quoted. I stand by my interpretation of what you have written. I see many 'buts' in your words and I was responding with my thoughts, rather than debate, regarding what I was reading.

 

That's not how it seemed.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

This thread is so uncomfortable but thought provoking too. And I have started to change my views, a little.

 

I think that the real vs not makes perfect sense to those BS who live a single authentic life. But to those who chose to have affairs in their lives, by nature they think differently, have to, right?

 

People who have affairs seem to put them in boxes (compartmentalize) so within that box it is "real" and the various WS that have answered have explained the realness as being perfectly normal, acceptable, or at minimum a poor coping mechanism to have full real relationships with multiple people at the same time. The components of that box could be limited or more broad, but largely do not include paying bills, raising children, dealing with parents/family etc.

 

BS do tend to think that other relationship is not real...based on the fact that they could not have multiple full boxes and cannot fathom the concept.

 

Some WS do often indicated that once away from the affair drug mindset that the affair was an escape, a fantasy, or whatever. I guess for the AP and WS that was real then too.

 

Reconciliation is not for pussies. And for anyone who criticizes the BS or married couple by finding their way to accept the horror that affairs bring into the relationship, even if that is by putting the affair in a "not real" box is missing the point. How is that coping different?

 

Finallysettled, I don't know your back story, but I assume your now XW realized at some point she could not live with or reconcile your affair behavior and be OK with it. Your effort to fix the marriage was too late at that point. But your current wife, being a knowing participant in the past affair, has been able to reconcile that affair box. And as you created your new relationship with her you both are aware that you are proposed to having multiple real relationship boxes and deal with that.

 

Still a strange concept to me...and I do think for many many BS this concept of REAL parallel relationships is what will make them unable to reconcile. Because the promise and vow was for only me, if you need and want more than me, if you needed and wanted REAL with more than me, then I will never be enough.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Finally Settled]

This thread is so uncomfortable but thought provoking too. And I have started to change my views, a little.

 

I think that the real vs not makes perfect sense to those BS who live a single authentic life. But to those who chose to have affairs in their lives, by nature they think differently, have to, right?

 

People who have affairs seem to put them in boxes (compartmentalize) so within that box it is "real" and the various WS that have answered have explained the realness as being perfectly normal, acceptable, or at minimum a poor coping mechanism to have full real relationships with multiple people at the same time. The components of that box could be limited or more broad, but largely do not include paying bills, raising children, dealing with parents/family etc.

 

BS do tend to think that other relationship is not real...based on the fact that they could not have multiple full boxes and cannot fathom the concept.

 

Some WS do often indicated that once away from the affair drug mindset that the affair was an escape, a fantasy, or whatever. I guess for the AP and WS that was real then too.

 

Reconciliation is not for pussies. And for anyone who criticizes the BS or married couple by finding their way to accept the horror that affairs bring into the relationship, even if that is by putting the affair in a "not real" box is missing the point. How is that coping different?

 

Finallysettled, I don't know your back story, but I assume your now XW realized at some point she could not live with or reconcile your affair behavior and be OK with it. Your effort to fix the marriage was too late at that point. But your current wife, being a knowing participant in the past affair, has been able to reconcile that affair box. And as you created your new relationship with her you both are aware that you are proposed to having multiple real relationship boxes and deal with that.

 

Still a strange concept to me...and I do think for many many BS this concept of REAL parallel relationships is what will make them unable to reconcile. Because the promise and vow was for only me, if you need and want more than me, if you needed and wanted REAL with more than me, then I will never be enough.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

No, my exwife would still be married to me now if I had not made the decision to leave the marriage. My exwife chose not to participate in any true healing of our marriage and no matter how remorseful or sorrowful or guilty I was, I could not do it on my own. Again, I am aware my actions put us both into that position, but I was not going to accept returning to the marriage we had and ignore the things that left us vulnerable to my actions in the first place.

 

My other woman and I were apart for almost five years and we have been actively in counselling since coming back together. She understands the decisions and choices I made, but she was no happier than I to allow them to dictate our lives together.

 

Addressing the bolded, I would agree completely.

[ComingInHot]

wow. I think I'm actually seeing the A relationship as "real". At least as in it happened they talked, Kind of knew eachother and in cases Not like mine, knew eachother more than a little.

 

I was thinking.. (dangerous I know haha, not)*

STORY TIME, yeah:

So dated a guy I knew my fam would Not have approved of. Like would have beaten the crap out of had they found out but oh my was he heartpounding gorgeous, dark, dangerous and sexy!!! whew! good times...

Anyway, the entire Relationship was Totally wrong. It was a secret. I LIED and deceived about it. Completely unhealthy!

but it was a real relationship, Just One the should have Never Happened.

 

that said, the A Relationship can be real, even if it is unhealthy, twisted, based on betrayal, lies and deception and a relationship that is the most selfish and sadistic and malicious Real thing that any two people cod ever participate in.

 

there, ya'll win. it's real*

[Finally Settled]

One of my children is adopted and I liken it to his life before he was part of our lives. I hear the stories of his life of abuse and neglect, and to me it feels vague and unreal. Those relationships were real to him, but I find I need to put my intellectual head on rather than my emotional one to accept they were truly real.

[Journee]

wow. I think I'm actually seeing the A relationship as "real". At least as in it happened they talked, Kind of knew eachother and in cases Not like mine, knew eachother more than a little.

 

I was thinking.. (dangerous I know haha, not)*

STORY TIME, yeah:

So dated a guy I knew my fam would Not have approved of. Like would have beaten the crap out of had they found out but oh my was he heartpounding gorgeous, dark, dangerous and sexy!!! whew! good times...

Anyway, the entire Relationship was Totally wrong. It was a secret. I LIED and deceived about it. Completely unhealthy!

but it was a real relationship, Just One the should have Never Happened.

 

that said, the A Relationship can be real, even if it is unhealthy, twisted, based on betrayal, lies and deception and a relationship that is the most selfish and sadistic and malicious Real thing that any two people cod ever participate in.

 

there, ya'll win. it's real*

 

 

 

 

Your example is what most makes me uncomfortable. Even though you admit why it was wrong , you described him in an incredibly exciting way. Even though you regret the circumstances surrounding him you had several rather sexy things to say about him in particular . After reading some of the WS accounts here I think of this sort of train of thought with them. Kind of like them being reminiscent and it is hard to see and understand. For some reason your example really brought home this point to me. This "I am so sorry I hurt x ,y and z but boy , what a ride!" attitude. This is my most difficult hurdle. For me ,in my life, I have to accept ( for me) that it was real. The actions were real and that's all that matters to me most times. Regardless of the circumstances surrounding... it happened. The sex was real , the contact , the interaction. I'm not going to compare and contrast until I'm blue in the face.

 

It is a dilemma for sure. There is no way to know what the wayward thinks or feel. Would my H ever tell me if he had those moments of reflection of her in positive light? How could I ever be certain?

 

Just some ramblings. This really triggered me for some reason. The example was spot on.

[ComingInHot]

Journee,

I didn't mean to cause you Any pain, I'm so sorry!

I was remembering how awful and destructive this relationship was and how I was a complete selfish, horrible biiiaaaatch I was to my family and friends.

As far as him being totally "totally" juicy, if there had been No initial chemical attraction, the whole thing would never have happened, that and if I hadn't been an immature Eighteen year old who didn't know my head from my azz!

 

There is NOTHING positive about my feelings or memories of that guy or relationship aside from I thought he was attractive and the excitement from biting a forbidden fruit rush! The only thing I feel is disgust for him And for me. He was a Huge bad decision.

 

Positive note: I DODGED a bullet!! I'll bet that your H feels the same way*

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Journee,

I didn't mean to cause you Any pain, I'm so sorry!

I was remembering how awful and destructive this relationship was and how I was a complete selfish, horrible biiiaaaatch I was to my family and friends.

As far as him being totally "totally" juicy, if there had been No initial chemical attraction, the whole thing would never have happened, that and if I hadn't been an immature Eighteen year old who didn't know my head from my azz!

 

There is NOTHING positive about my feelings or memories of that guy or relationship aside from I thought he was attractive and the excitement from biting a forbidden fruit rush! The only thing I feel is disgust for him And for me. He was a Huge bad decision.

 

Positive note: I DODGED a bullet!! I'll bet that your H feels the same way*

 

Maybe this is the difference we are speaking of.

 

For the WS who (actually) looks back on the affair like this^^, reconciliation is possible.

 

For the BS who believes this is how the WS remembers the affair, reconciliation is possible.

 

For the WS and AP the relationship may have been real, within whatever box it was in.

 

But if the recollection of the affair is real and fond, or I guess without the regret, then reconciliation with BS will be harder...if not impossible.

 

And not to add pain, but this also applies to the OMOW, who ask when the relationship is over, was it real, did s/he love me? Same thing right?

 

This thread sucks...in a bad/good way. Just sayin

[waterwoman]

Maybe this is the difference we are speaking of.

 

For the WS who (actually) looks back on the affair like this^^, reconciliation is possible.

 

For the BS who believes this is how the WS remembers the affair, reconciliation is possible.

 

For the WS and AP the relationship may have been real, within whatever box it was in.

 

But if the recollection of the affair is real and fond, or I guess without the regret, then reconciliation with BS will be harder...if not impossible.

 

And not to add pain, but this also applies to the OMOW, who ask when the relationship is over, was it real, did s/he love me? Same thing right?

 

This thread sucks...in a bad/good way. Just sayin

 

I read in one of the many books I read over the last 14 months that both spouses have to come to terms with the other's view of the affair before they can start to change their own. While to me that 6 months was a period of pain, betrayal and sorrow, for h it was exciting, loving and ego-boosting. If took a while but I guess that I can now acknowledge that it must have felt good for h to be adored, and he can now honestly say he regrets the whole thing And wishes he'd never met her because of how much it all hurt me and destroyer his own integrity.

[Furious]

This has been an eye opening thread and also brutal and difficult to digest.

 

'Real" relationships are as real as the people in them. It's interesting how those who defend affairs as "real" relationships are reasonably comfortable with deception, cowardice and dishonesty as being part and parcel to that "real" relationship. If that's something they can live with, so be it.

 

A real relationship is measured by your own criteria as to what's paramount to your belief then that is all that matters. It's not up to a WS or their affair partner to convince you otherwise. Perhaps those WS and affairs partners are better suited, as they have much in common.

 

We could argue semantics till the cows come home. What really matters is what you hold true in your heart.

 

Therefore I raise my buttered bread to those who prefer margarine and wish them well.

[2sure]

From what I've heard it's real enough for a 25-year old marriage to fall apart because of it. And plans being made for new citizenships in the future. Seems the authorities consider it real enough too.

 

I guess in real life it's real, but here on LS online it seems like a virtual reality to others. That would make sense to me.

 

No, in real life it isn't real. It happens of course for other people under totally different circumstances. But the woman I'm referring to, I know very well, and given the facts ...there is no way it's going to happen for her. But it's fine for her, like I said, to her it constitutes a relationship.

[2sure]

Yes I remember that one. The poster kept getting banned but insisted on setting up yet more user names to go on about her "primary" and "exclusive" relationship. Wonder what she's doing now.....

 

Must be someone similar, but different. But it seems to be getting more common.

[screwedovertwenty]

I am a BS and I think the affair is a real relationship. I have been trying to explain this to my husband who thinks it wasn't a real relationship!

 

As he describes it, their affair was a fb or fwb type of affair. He reminded her four different times throughout that "this is just sex". He would get off work, drive fifteen minutes to her house, drive fifteen minutes to their spot, stay there for fifteen minutes to a half hour and then another fifteen minutes back to her house. Sometimes though, they would not have sex. He would just drive to her house and pick her up and they would drive around the block and "smoke" and talk ****. There were no ILY's. There was no future planning. There was no talking of me or the family, except when he told her what I did for a living and when he told her that I did animal rescue.

 

What I hear is that he had a girlfriend who he liked hanging out with even when they weren't going to have sex. He denies. I explain that he wouldn't have driven to Joe's house or Bob's house at eleven at night and drive around the block to smoke a bowl with them, would he??? No. Now he sees my point of view. Still he says there were no feelings for her. I say bullcrap. She was a girl that he was attracted to and liked hanging out with and talking to and having sex with. I think there were feelings. I don't think he was in love with her but I am sure he was infatuated with her and he still says that he wasn't.

 

I think it was a relationship. She was much younger and I am sure she had feelings far beyond what he felt for her. It was a crappy relationship from my standards. I would not want to base my day around fifteen minutes of sex from someone who was going home to sleep with his wife. The way I see it, it was real, crappy but real.

[2sure]

I read in one of the many books I read over the last 14 months that both spouses have to come to terms with the other's view of the affair before they can start to change their own. While to me that 6 months was a period of pain, betrayal and sorrow, for h it was exciting, loving and ego-boosting. If took a while but I guess that I can now acknowledge that it must have felt good for h to be adored, and he can now honestly say he regrets the whole thing And wishes he'd never met her because of how much it all hurt me and destroyer his own integrity.

 

This is a huge and very important thought. I had never had it put so clearly, I get it. This is a helpful post to a BS. You need to keep it and share it with others who may not read it in this thread.

[2sure]

I am a BS and I think the affair is a real relationship. I have been trying to explain this to my husband who thinks it wasn't a real relationship!

 

As he describes it, their affair was a fb or fwb type of affair. He reminded her four different times throughout that "this is just sex". He would get off work, drive fifteen minutes to her house, drive fifteen minutes to their spot, stay there for fifteen minutes to a half hour and then another fifteen minutes back to her house. Sometimes though, they would not have sex. He would just drive to her house and pick her up and they would drive around the block and "smoke" and talk ****. There were no ILY's. There was no future planning. There was no talking of me or the family, except when he told her what I did for a living and when he told her that I did animal rescue.

 

What I hear is that he had a girlfriend who he liked hanging out with even when they weren't going to have sex. He denies. I explain that he wouldn't have driven to Joe's house or Bob's house at eleven at night and drive around the block to smoke a bowl with them, would he??? No. Now he sees my point of view. Still he says there were no feelings for her. I say bullcrap. She was a girl that he was attracted to and liked hanging out with and talking to and having sex with. I think there were feelings. I don't think he was in love with her but I am sure he was infatuated with her and he still says that he wasn't.

 

I think it was a relationship. She was much younger and I am sure she had feelings far beyond what he felt for her. It was a crappy relationship from my standards. I would not want to base my day around fifteen minutes of sex from someone who was going home to sleep with his wife. The way I see it, it was real, crappy but real.

 

My X was a serial cheater , all of his affairs were just like this. A dozen at least.

Sex was not the MAIN event, it was the validation. He just wanted to know he could have her if he wanted, he liked the ego stroke. He needed constant new validation, which is how he became a serial cheater. Initially, the dating aspect hurt me more than the sex..because I'm a woman and because it seemed more intimate. But it wasn't, it was only validation, it was only an ego stroke, none were relationships. So, it's just something to think about, maybe a different perspective.

[screwedovertwenty]

My X was a serial cheater , all of his affairs were just like this. A dozen at least.

Sex was not the MAIN event, it was the validation. He just wanted to know he could have her if he wanted, he liked the ego stroke. He needed constant new validation, which is how he became a serial cheater. Initially, the dating aspect hurt me more than the sex..because I'm a woman and because it seemed more intimate. But it wasn't, it was only validation, it was only an ego stroke, none were relationships. So, it's just something to think about, maybe a different perspective.

 

Hmmm, so you think he liked the validation more than he liked her? She never turned him down when he wanted sex. He turned her down often, according to him. He would tell her he was too tired and just wanted to go home. I turned him down often, as I felt so completely emotionally neglected. I think you may be right.

[ladydesigner]

I read in one of the many books I read over the last 14 months that both spouses have to come to terms with the other's view of the affair before they can start to change their own. While to me that 6 months was a period of pain, betrayal and sorrow, for h it was exciting, loving and ego-boosting. If took a while but I guess that I can now acknowledge that it must have felt good for h to be adored, and he can now honestly say he regrets the whole thing And wishes he'd never met her because of how much it all hurt me and destroyer his own integrity.

 

Yes this is how I feel now 5 years out from my RA. I wish I had never met my xAP. It helped me destroy parts of myself that I held high and I helped destroy my family. Regret even seems too kind a word. My WH has said the same thing about MOW. That while in the A, yes everything was exciting and new and he loved the validation, but when push came to shove, MOW got shoved right off the shelf. My WH says the A with MOW was not worth the devastation caused to everyone, me, MOW's BS, kids on both sides, family members, friends, even co-workers. The risk of losing the M was not worth the A in hindsight.

[Anna-Belle]

The lengths BSs will go to deny the reality that their spouse had a love relationship with somebody else are astonishing.

 

"An affair is not a real relationship."

"My spouse was in the fog."

"There never was an affair. It was all the fantasy of a crazy woman/man."

 

Talk about denial at its best.

[Anna-Belle]

The same could be said of OW/OM who feel compelled to take every opportunity to try to convince any and everyone that a relationship built on lies, deception and broken promises constitutes as a "real" relationship. Or the ones who claim others not taking on that particular view are merely "in denial".

 

The above does not constitute denial.

 

It seems to be a need of BSs to see the marriage and the EMR as a love triangle rather than being two parallel relationships. In this way they can project the lies, deception and broken promises taking place in the marriage as being part of the EMR, when in reality it makes no sense to attribute what happens in the marriage to the EMR.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Anna-Belle

[anne1707]

The above does not constitute denial.

 

It seems to be a need of BSs to see the marriage and the EMR as a love triangle rather than being two parallel relationships. In this way they can project the lies, deception and broken promises taking place in the marriage as being part of the EMR, when in reality it makes no sense to attribute what happens in the marriage to the EMR.

 

Utter rubbish.

 

When I had my affair I lied to my husband BECAUSE of the affair. I can quite definitely attribute the lies and deceit being caused by my involvement in an "EMR"

[Anna-Belle]

The question every BS should ask themselves is "If he's lying to me, whom is he telling the truth to?" The answer to that question will reveal who's closest to the MP.

 

Sure, sometimes the MP is lying to both the BS and the OP, in those cases he's likely close to nobody. An intimacy avoider or a sexual addict most likely.

 

Whom you tell the truth to can switch throughout time, but it's very telling.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

The question every BS should ask themselves is "If he's lying to me, whom is he telling the truth to?" The answer to that question will reveal who's closest to the MP.

 

Sure, sometimes the MP is lying to both the BS and the OP, in those cases he's likely close to nobody. An intimacy avoider or a sexual addict most likely.

 

Whom you tell the truth to can switch throughout time, but it's very telling.

 

I edited your comment for reality.

 

The question every BS/OM/OW should ask themselves is "If (s)he's lying to me, how can I really believe (s)he is telling the truth about anything to anyone?"

 

It is naive to believe that the lies are to the betrayed only. Not only naive, but look at all the threads by all the peeps and see if there is no lying going on to everyone involved.

 

You seem very hostile to BS who continue to work on their marriage. I am not sure why you care? You went into the relationship knowing he was married, why would you expect them to dump and run? The issue is with your choice to have a partial relationship with an unavailable man. Isn't the OW code that you accept that or move on?

[Anna-Belle]

You seem very hostile to BS who continue to work on their marriage.

 

Absolutely not, being a reconciled BS myself in prior relationships. I merely promote truth as I see it. Since childhood I've been the one who pointed out the elephant in the room, who wouldn't keep quiet and let others delude themselves. I'm the uncomfortable person who will say what I see.

[ladydesigner]

Absolutely not, being a reconciled BS myself in prior relationships. I merely promote truth as I see it. Since childhood I've been the one who pointed out the elephant in the room, who wouldn't keep quiet and let others delude themselves. I'm the uncomfortable person who will say what I see.

 

Likewise and I see A's as wrong because they hurt not only the person having the A, but all the people involved, plain and simple. I am both a fWS and a BS.