Split Self Affair

[2sure]

I think most of the BS here, especially those that reconciled, have shown true attempts at understanding why their spouse strayed.

[whichwayisup]

I apologise you do not follow my writing.

 

I commented I find it sad that so many betrayed seek to condemn rather than understand. I did not claim all betrayed, I commented only what I saw which was many betrayed making joke of understanding, saying only condemnation is appropriate. I find that sad.

 

I also wondered of that was what might have led to the partner seeking love with another. Being with someone who is not interested in understanding, only condemnation. It may also send them again looking for love somewhere else if their partner is still so contre understanding.

 

I think wanting to understand can help to prevent happening again.

 

I love how this is all on the BS. Why can't a BS be more understanding..Why can't they be more giving, more forgiving, more patient.. Again, such crap.

 

IF a WS learned how to COMMUNICATE, how to express themselves in a healthy way to begin with, to actually make a decision to divorce before getting involved with someone else, then maybe this self split crap wouldn't come up. Again, it's a total cop out and a justification to do as they please.

[2sure]

The issue so many OW fall into with the whole " available" thing...is that MM very often exaggerates the extent of his availableness. She is told the marriage is ending, or will end, and more often than not that isn't he case. Or, sure he will be more available in ten years. But OW isn't told that up front.

 

That's the reason, more than societal expectations, that single confident secure women don't date married men. Available sure, but for what? You never know.

[MissBee]

I think most of the BS here, especially those that reconciled, have shown true attempts at understanding why their spouse strayed.

 

Precisely.

 

After you have understood THEN WHAT?

 

A few years ago I spent all my time understanding my ex's attachment disorder and why he didn't do what he said he would and blah blah. I mean I could've written a thesis on it. I checked out tons and tons and tons of books at the library, read so many articles and on and on...I understood the ins and outs of it to a tee. I remember I went to my counselor and told her about it, and she made me aware that, all my intellectualizing and understanding didn't change my actions and my obsession with understanding him was really a distraction from myself as 10 books ago, I already KNEW his issue...I couldn't fix it...so I had to make a choice! Me continuing to hide behind my understanding didn't change my life or his behavior...I was like WOW...OMG...I didn't realize it before but it hit me like a ton of bricks how right she was.

 

Split-self is a theory I have little respect for because of LS. I admit that. It's not that it isn't real, maybe so...but it's that the ONLY time I see it used, is by OW who have been in an affair for YEARS! OW who have accepted their position and are masquerading as long-suffering saints who deserve a medal for agreeing to be in an affair for years with a man because he "has split-self" like it is some chronic disease. It is clear that only these kinds of OW in particular enjoy this theory...for obvious reason. They want to remain inert themselves and they can use his inability to do what he needs to as a smoke screen for them also being unable to extricate themselves or be decisive.

 

As my counselor pointed out: anyone can have any condition which explains their behavior, abusive people usually are that way because of their own past...doesn't mean you take the abuse or stay with them because you understand. Understanding sometimes means wishing them well and loving yourself enough to not let them drag you down with them. Understanding doesn't mean YOU can change them...you can't, only they can change them.

 

Hence I asked Moper, you realize this is you, NOW WHAT? That's what matters now. Some people get stuck at understanding...and that is called an excuse. Move on from understanding to decisive action.

Edited August 11, 2013 by MissBee

[Moper]

I am pretty sure I will figure it out. Rome was not built in a day. I did not arrive at my current circumstances in a day.

 

Something I do know with absolute certainty is that one day I will be dead and none of this will matter.

[MissBee]

I am pretty sure I will figure it out. Rome was not built in a day. I did not arrive at my current circumstances in a day.

 

Something I do know with absolute certainty is that one day I will be dead and none of this will matter.

 

This is true.

[2sure]

I am pretty sure I will figure it out. Rome was not built in a day. I did not arrive at my current circumstances in a day.

 

Something I do know with absolute certainty is that one day I will be dead and none of this will matter.

 

Exactly. I ask myself all the time when making decisions or even reacting to life...am a making things simple or creating drama? It's all adjectives were talking about here.

[Betterthanthis13]

I apologise you do not follow my writing.

 

I commented I find it sad that so many betrayed seek to condemn rather than understand. I did not claim all betrayed, I commented only what I saw which was many betrayed making joke of understanding, saying only condemnation is appropriate. I find that sad.

 

I also wondered of that was what might have led to the partner seeking love with another. Being with someone who is not interested in understanding, only condemnation. It may also send them again looking for love somewhere else if their partner is still so contre understanding.

 

I think wanting to understand can help to prevent happening again.

 

No, I haven't followed your writing, this is the first interaction I've had with you on LS. I inferred that your comment about "sad BS's" was directed at me in this thread, because I was the BS who was posting prior to your comment, and I am a BS, and I am sad.

 

I'm still interested in hearing your opinions on the questions I had about your post. I will read your post history soon, I can't today because my ex is moving out but Im definitely interested, because (correct me if I'm wrong) I think your opinion is going to be that there is a lot of "gray area" to life. I find that theory fascinating, and am eager to have someone to talk about it with.

 

I'm also going to start a new thread right now called "when Good People Have Affairs" as I previously stated. I forgot to do it last time, but I cant imagine Moper appreciates my extreme threadjack this far so...

 

Moper: I'm sorry for the t/j! Better, over and out.

[Moper]

Threadjack to your heart's content. I am reading all of this and taking it in. I can understand that BS generally would be less than pleased with the split-self theory but it seems to me to be a BS issue being acted out. I am always of the opinion that serious theories out to be discussed and sorted out.

 

I see that this was discussed before on LS. It doesn't seem to me there is any resolution but then I would not expect there to be.

 

I think I need to explore this more with my wife. I am having a hard time understanding why she wants to go forward with the marriage, other than kids finances and perhaps just not wanting to blow up the current trajectory of our lives. The thing I really got out of the article was the general conclusion that seems to me to be that a divorce is in order.

 

And yes that is the real question here. Do I work on this marriage or do I walk away?

[findingnemo]

I am pretty sure I will figure it out. Rome was not built in a day. I did not arrive at my current circumstances in a day.

 

Something I do know with absolute certainty is that one day I will be dead and none of this will matter.

 

That is such a cop out, Moper. Before you are actually dead, you will lie in a bed (hopefully) dying and will wonder why the hell you lived your life as two people rather than one person. Better to be yourself and enjoy this life... Unless you believe in reincarnation. And I can tell you that the little I know of that theory, you may come back as a cow. But seriously, LIVE YOUR LIFE and let others live theirs.

 

Even if a person is split into 10 personalities at some point they just have to realize their life is a mess and find a solution. The author of the article simply found a new and intellectual way to describe a whole lot of people. They are incapable of looking at two situations and choosing one unlike most other people. For them the goal is to have both. It is not a disease. The person is simply suffering from flawed thinking when it comes to Rs, M and duty.

 

My 4 year old exhibits all the traits of Split Self. If I give him the choice between two things he wants, he will choose both. He refuses to accept that he can't have them both. He really tries at first to choose one. You can see him thinking and weighing the pros and cons in his little brain. Then he just decides he won't accept reality. He will create his own reality and have both.

 

I know he will outgrow this. Unfortunately for me I fell in love with a man who is just like my 4 year old is now. A grown a$$ man who refused to accept that he had to go through some pain in order to live authentically. Once I realized that I moved on and I'm happy. Him? The way things are going he will wake up one day all alone. Everybody that loved him has had it...

 

You are not dead yet, Moper.

[Moper]

It isn't about living life as two people or multiple personalities. You are way off.

[SidLyon]

What is the real problem? Is it: 1) the physical act of having sex with AP; 2) the lack of intimacy from WS with BS; 3) the lack of intimacy from BS with WS; or 4) something else?

 

....

 

First of all, I don't necessarily disagree with the characteristics of a "split-self" MM (and they are generally men, apparently) having an affair.

 

What I don't like however, is that Emily Brown was able to ascribe all sorts of negative characteristics to the BWs of such men and all sorts of positive characteristics to the OWs of such men. She further generalised that all/most such "split-self" MM had these types of BWs and OWs. To me this discredits her whole "theory" (if that's what it is) of split-self affairs.

 

I find it highly unlikely that all split-self men have BWs and OWs who are as she describes and what's more I doubt that Emily Brown could have actually met with and diagnosed both the OWs and BWs of even a fraction of the split-self men she claims to has counseled/diagnosed.

 

To answer your specific question Moper, the "real problem" with split-self MM is the ongoing deceit and dishonesty of the MM himself. This manifests as basically tricking/manipulating his BW into continuing with him, sometimes for many years. I speak as a BW of a man who had many of the characteristics of a split-self MM as described by Emily Brown. However I can categorically say that the BW (me) and the OW were nothing like her cookie-cutter descriptions.

 

I am all for you and any MM who may be "split-self" working himself out. But I think it is dangerous to think that her impressions of BWs and OWs apply in your situation. You risk demonising your wife, idolising your OW and altogether overlooking your own dishonest behaviour, which presumably will go unresolved and may manifest itself again when faced with problems in your future relationships.

[Betterthanthis13]

Threadjack to your heart's content. I am reading all of this and taking it in. I can understand that BS generally would be less than pleased with the split-self theory but it seems to me to be a BS issue being acted out. I am always of the opinion that serious theories out to be discussed and sorted out.

 

I see that this was discussed before on LS. It doesn't seem to me there is any resolution but then I would not expect there to be.

 

I think I need to explore this more with my wife. I am having a hard time understanding why she wants to go forward with the marriage, other than kids finances and perhaps just not wanting to blow up the current trajectory of our lives. The thing I really got out of the article was the general conclusion that seems to me to be that a divorce is in order.

 

And yes that is the real question here. Do I work on this marriage or do I walk away?

 

The real question before that and any other life decision question is, and always is, do I want to know the truth 100%?

 

If I do, I will fearlessly investigate by any and all means possible until I am reasonably certain I have my answer, and then I can decide if I want to take action.

 

If I don't really want to know the truth, I can make up excuses, justifications, lie to myself and others, tell myself I am happy, sometimes be sort of happy, wonder if this is it, and try to ignore that incessant pesky restless feeling.

 

If the real question before the question is kept top of mind, there is never a need for split self affairs or bad advice books- you will still make mistakes in the fearless search for the truth, but it won't be a split self affair. Think about it. Not 99% wanting to know the truth. 100%.

[Moper]

The real question before that and any other life decision question is, and always is, do I want to know the truth 100%?

 

If I do, I will fearlessly investigate by any and all means possible until I am reasonably certain I have my answer, and then I can decide if I want to take action.

 

If I don't really want to know the truth, I can make up excuses, justifications, lie to myself and others, tell myself I am happy, sometimes be sort of happy, wonder if this is it, and try to ignore that incessant pesky restless feeling.

 

If the real question before the question is kept top of mind, there is never a need for split self affairs or bad advice books- you will still make mistakes in the fearless search for the truth, but it won't be a split self affair. Think about it. Not 99% wanting to know the truth. 100%.

 

Of course there is never a need for split self affairs. I don't know about advice books.

 

100% of anything is a tall order and not realistic.

 

I have been a rational, responsible person in control of my life and successful in every way for pretty much my whole life, just like the profile. Did I know better than to have the A? Sure I did. It is not about ducking out from the truth or responsibility.

 

Do you believe in the theory of your subconscious? I do. Not to diminish my own responsibility here but something powerful happened to me and it was in a large way subconscious. The family of origin stuff rings true to me although I do not think my family of origin was too dysfunctional.

 

But we are all dysfunctional. Some of us are healthier than others.

 

I don't think I am really a cake eater. Something else happened here. I have stuffed some unhappiness for a long, long time. It came out here.

 

You can say I have no right to be happy. I have wrestled with that, the priority of my responsibility versus my happiness.

 

I am still working on this.

[thecharade]

I admit I have not read all 7 pages of this thread, but are we to believe that split self affairs cannot be fixed or reconciled? Hmmmm.

 

I identify with the split self idea of "I can't be me here" so "I will go over here and be me," but I've been working hard to be the real me with my H, for better or worse. (So far it's been for better.) Is this not a way to solve things within the M? Try to get acceptance for who you really are?

[thecharade]

Responsibility vs. Happiness? What happens when the scale tips too far in one direction? I am working on that one as well, Moper.

[Moper]

First of all, I don't necessarily disagree with the characteristics of a "split-self" MM (and they are generally men, apparently) having an affair.

 

What I don't like however, is that Emily Brown was able to ascribe all sorts of negative characteristics to the BWs of such men and all sorts of positive characteristics to the OWs of such men. She further generalised that all/most such "split-self" MM had these types of BWs and OWs. To me this discredits her whole "theory" (if that's what it is) of split-self affairs.

 

I find it highly unlikely that all split-self men have BWs and OWs who are as she describes and what's more I doubt that Emily Brown could have actually met with and diagnosed both the OWs and BWs of even a fraction of the split-self men she claims to has counseled/diagnosed.

 

To answer your specific question Moper, the "real problem" with split-self MM is the ongoing deceit and dishonesty of the MM himself. This manifests as basically tricking/manipulating his BW into continuing with him, sometimes for many years. I speak as a BW of a man who had many of the characteristics of a split-self MM as described by Emily Brown. However I can categorically say that the BW (me) and the OW were nothing like her cookie-cutter descriptions.

 

I am all for you and any MM who may be "split-self" working himself out. But I think it is dangerous to think that her impressions of BWs and OWs apply in your situation. You risk demonising your wife, idolising your OW and altogether overlooking your own dishonest behaviour, which presumably will go unresolved and may manifest itself again when faced with problems in your future relationships.

 

I am not anywhere near trying to use this to justify ongoing deceit and dishonesty. I was mostly amazed at how I fit the profile, and the thing that struck me was that the likelihood of staying with the marriage was low, if that is true.

[Moper]

Responsibility vs. Happiness? What happens when the scale tips too far in one direction? I am working on that one as well, Moper.

 

I don't know thecharade. All I know is that I did bond with my AP in a way that I didn't know I could still experience, and frankly she is a total mess and I know that says something about me too.

 

On paper it isn't even close. AP does not touch my wife, not to mention the consequences for my kids and family.

 

Why the heck did I do this to myself?

[Betterthanthis13]

It's not unrealistic to want 100% truth and to search for it.

It's unrealistic to expect to ever find it.

 

When you deny or ignore the truth, or just don't want to look for it- all you are doing is delaying.

 

When you search out, accept, and face the truth, you can get the strength to conquer it.

 

It's a fight. You can't fight a battle if you only sorta want to.

100% want.

 

I want 100% truth, passionately I search and search. I never give up.

 

I just spent 2 months in quasi denial not kicking out my serial cheating sex addict ex boyfriend. It took me until today to finally do it. It's a fight. We are human. Don't kick yourself. Fight.

[waterwoman]

I find it telling and perhaps a little sad that so many of the betrayed are so quick to dismiss an understanding of why their partner came to love another. Perhaps of they were more ready to I der stand, and less quick to condemn, perhaps the partner would not have felt the need to seek another to love. Perhaps of they were more ready to seek to understand, there would be less chance of their partner needing to seek another in the future.

 

Perhaps if one prefers a simplistic view on people or life, one should only choose simple people to love.

 

No-one is simple. And I think very few people on this board have a simplistic view. But there is one very simple fact that cannot be denied and that is that betrayal hurts, it hurts deeply and it continues to hurt for a very long time. I apologise if that is too simple for you. And while I can see why my H had an EA and make excuses for him, that doesn't alter the fact that he chose to do something that caused me huge pain without seeking any other recourse first. And strangely enough, although H is a fairly introspective person, he himself denies all the excuses I make for him and can find none for himself. He calls himself selfish and stupid. Full stop.

 

I am all for Moper looking for reasons, seeking to understand but I feel deeply sorry for his wife. For a start I am not sure that falling in love or connecting to someone else means that his marriage is dead and past revival. But that isn't something that will be discovered by analysis and dredging the internet for answers. It will be discovered by talking to her, spending time with her, going to MC with her perhaps. It feels from what I have read here that he is thinking and thinking and not telling her what his conclusions or ponderings are. It seems as if all this angst and analysis is happening in isolation from the other person closely involved in the situation. And that is a betrayal as painful IMO as the affair itself.

[Anna-Belle]

What I don't like however, is that Emily Brown was able to ascribe all sorts of negative characteristics to the BWs of such men and all sorts of positive characteristics to the OWs of such men.

 

I don't see it as the BSs being ascribed all sort of negative characteristics. What I understand it to be is that the BS generally suffers from Split Self herself and needs to do the same work through IC as the WS does.

 

The OW is ascribed her own set of issues she needs to work with. She does have the benefit of being more in touch with her emotional side which is what has drawn the WS to her to begin with.

 

I admit I have not read all 7 pages of this thread, but are we to believe that split self affairs cannot be fixed or reconciled? Hmmmm.

 

I identify with the split self idea of "I can't be me here" so "I will go over here and be me," but I've been working hard to be the real me with my H, for better or worse. (So far it's been for better.) Is this not a way to solve things within the M? Try to get acceptance for who you really are?

 

If both the WS and the BS do the work necessary through IC to heal themselves the marriage can indeed be happily reconciled. If only the WS does it, not much chance for a happy reconciliation.

[SidLyon]

I don't see it as the BSs being ascribed all sort of negative characteristics. What I understand it to be is that the BS generally suffers from Split Self herself and needs to do the same work through IC as the WS does.

 

The OW is ascribed her own set of issues she needs to work with. She does have the benefit of being more in touch with her emotional side which is what has drawn the WS to her to begin with.

 

 

 

If both the WS and the BS do the work necessary through IC to heal themselves the marriage can indeed be happily reconciled. If only the WS does it, not much chance for a happy reconciliation.

 

Well we can disagree about whether BWs have been ascribed negative traits and OWs positive traits. I happens to think it's so.

 

What particularly concerns me is that Emily Brown is able to ascribe any sort of characteristics to either BWs or OWs when it is most likely just the WHs she has counseled. Honestly I doubt very much that the MMs she is seeing in IC (and describing as split-self) take both their BWs and their OWs along for counseling and diagnoses. IMO she totally discredits her own theory if she attempts to "diagnose" people she's not even seeing.

 

I do agree with you that it takes both parties to reconcile a marriage. However doubt that happens much with Emily Brown as an IC, because she recommends keeping the A from the BW. She appears to be falling over herself not to alienate the WHs she sees. I've heard that is somewhat common for counselors, when often men in particular are there somewhat reluctantly, so the therapists don't want to challenge them too much.

[findingnemo]

It isn't about living life as two people or multiple personalities. You are way off.

 

What is it about then? A cheater must compartmentalize. He/she must act one way with his/her spouse and another way with his/her lover. If that isn't living life like you are two different people, I don't know what is.

 

As for the term multiple personalities...wrong term. Ignore it. I was trying to convey the idea that someone could be split into more than two selves with each self wanting something different. Not that I have ever heard of such a thing.

[Anna-Belle]

I do agree with you that it takes both parties to reconcile a marriage. However doubt that happens much with Emily Brown as an IC, because she recommends keeping the A from the BW. She appears to be falling over herself not to alienate the WHs she sees. I've heard that is somewhat common for counselors, when often men in particular are there somewhat reluctantly, so the therapists don't want to challenge them too much.

 

Really? She recommends keeping the A from the BW? Why is there then an entire chapter on "Disclosing the Affair"?

 

"The first element in rebuilding is telling the betrayed spouse the truth. A well-planned disclosure opens the door to a process of growing and resolution. Our work as therapists is to help the straying partner disclose the secret in the best possible way. The process of disclosure encompasses preparation, disclosure, the betrayed spouse's response, and development of a plan for getting through the next few days."

 

Well we can disagree about whether BWs have been ascribed negative traits and OWs positive traits. I happens to think it's so.

 

What particularly concerns me is that Emily Brown is able to ascribe any sort of characteristics to either BWs or OWs when it is most likely just the WHs she has counseled. Honestly I doubt very much that the MMs she is seeing in IC (and describing as split-self) take both their BWs and their OWs along for counseling and diagnoses. IMO she totally discredits her own theory if she attempts to "diagnose" people she's not even seeing.

 

And you know what research she has done? You have somewhere seen it stated that it is only through studying the WHs she councils?

[Anna-Belle]

I do agree with you that it takes both parties to reconcile a marriage. However doubt that happens much with Emily Brown as an IC, because she recommends keeping the A from the BW. She appears to be falling over herself not to alienate the WHs she sees. I've heard that is somewhat common for counselors, when often men in particular are there somewhat reluctantly, so the therapists don't want to challenge them too much.

 

I wonder if you are confusing Emily Brown with Mira Kirshenbaum. Mira Kirshenbaum recommends the EMR not be disclosed.