Split Self Affair

[thecharade]

I thought your Split Self article was completely accurate, Moper. Both my AP and I fit the profile in the article. Everyone we know would use 'responsible' if allowed only 3 words to describe us. Doesn't excuse our choices or lack thereof, but it explains them to some degree. It also explains why we ended the A and went NC without a dday.

[SidLyon]

This presents a particularly favourable view of the WH and contains obvious contradictions in the way it presents the WH as doing the right thing but nevertheless having an A. I imagine that it would be easy for both WHs and OWs to rather like this explanation.

 

What especially irks me is that whoever prepared this profile of a split-self WH also apparently believes that the BW and the OW of nearly every split-self WH each have their own set of characteristics. Eg the BWs were never really loved, just someone to whom a duty is owed, they wait patiently for their WHs to make up their minds to leave and the OWs are not presented as a home-wreckers but as women who are the true loves of the WH who really fulfill him etc etc.

 

If all this comes from Emily Brown who seems to be the only so called expert on so called split-self affairs, then I wonder how she was able to so accurately describe the BWs and OWs of the men she was counseling as an IC.

 

Are there any other infidelity experts besides Emily Brown who subscribe to the idea of a split-self A?

[MissBee]

This presents a particularly favourable view of the WH and contains obvious contradictions in the way it presents the WH as doing the right thing but nevertheless having an A. I imagine that it would be easy for both WHs and OWs to rather like this explanation.

 

What especially irks me is that whoever prepared this profile of a split-self WH also apparently believes that the BW and the OW of nearly every split-self WH each have their own set of characteristics. Eg the BWs were never really loved, just someone to whom a duty is owed, they wait patiently for their WHs to make up their minds to leave and the OWs are not presented as a home-wreckers but as women who are the true loves of the WH who really fulfill him etc etc.

 

If all this comes from Emily Brown who seems to be the only so called expert on so called split-self affairs, then I wonder how she was able to so accurately describe the BWs and OWs of the men she was counseling as an IC.

Are there any other infidelity experts besides Emily Brown who subscribe to the idea of a split-self A?

 

No, not from what I've seen.

[Betterthanthis13]

There is no data available on "Split Self Affairs" because it is complete nonsense. It is propaganda and that's it. In my opinion.

 

There are plenty of true-isms WS's can identify with in the article so they will assume the author knows what she is talking about. In a year or two expect to see a book on Amazon titled "Split Self Affairs"

 

It will be right next to the piece of garbage (in my opinion) book "When Good People Have Affairs". Read that book if you enjoyed the Split Self article, and want to really screw your brain up with more flawed logic

[Realist3]

If people identify with it, then what is the point of dismissing it?

[Betterthanthis13]

If people identify with it, then what is the point of dismissing it?

 

Not dismissing, discrediting the logic.

 

If someone can read either one objectively without absorbing the false conclusions, there is useful information in both pieces

[Realist3]

Not dismissing, discrediting the logic.

 

If someone can read either one objectively without absorbing the false conclusions, there is useful information in both pieces

 

 

If you are discrediting the logic, you are dismissing it.

 

I'm not sure where you get the authority to make the conclusion that they are false conclusions. There are truisms in the piece.

[Betterthanthis13]

If you are discrediting the logic, you are dismissing it.

 

I'm not sure where you get the authority to make the conclusion that they are false conclusions. There are truisms in the piece.

 

I have no authority, logical arguments are debateable.

 

There are plenty of ways for something to be incorrect. Read my latest article:

 

Breaking Science News: Snow is Made of Milk!

 

Snow is white, and made of a frozen liquid -true

Milk is white- true

Milk is liquid- true

Milk can be frozen- true

 

Conclusion- snow is made of milk- FALSE

 

Lots of truism in that article

 

I'm just saying, don't believe everything you read because someone with a fancy PhD wrote it. Evaluate it for yourself and find out if it is really true or not. I find the arguments in this article to be faulty based on my evaluation, and have expressed my opinion.

 

It's ok, most people don't listen to me. "When Good People Have Affairs" has 51 reviews on Amazon, almost all of them are positive. The book got 4 out of 5 stars. All those reviews were based on emotion.

 

Only 2 reviewers did a critical analysis of the logic- both gave 1 star. I identify most with what the reviewer Elisabeth had to say, she has a detailed analysis explaining what the fallacies are.

 

All opinion- open to debate.

[Realist3]

I have no authority, logical arguments are debateable.

 

There are plenty of ways for something to be incorrect. Read my latest article:

 

Breaking Science News: Snow is Made of Milk!

 

Snow is white, and made of a frozen liquid -true

Milk is white- true

Milk is liquid- true

Milk can be frozen- true

 

Conclusion- snow is made of milk- FALSE

 

Lots of truism in that article

 

I'm just saying, don't believe everything you read because someone with a fancy PhD wrote it. Evaluate it for yourself and find out if it is really true or not. I find the arguments in this article to be faulty based on my evaluation, and have expressed my opinion.

 

It's ok, most people don't listen to me. "When Good People Have Affairs" has 51 reviews on Amazon, almost all of them are positive. The book got 4 out of 5 stars. All those reviews were based on emotion.

 

Only 2 reviewers did a critical analysis of the logic- both gave 1 star. I identify most with what the reviewer Elisabeth had to say, she has a detailed analysis explaining what the fallacies are.

 

All opinion- open to debate.

 

Which is exactly what I did. I read it and found relevant points that were made. I don't give a crap what the reviews say. If every BS on here went and reviewed it it could have 1000 negative reviews. That doesn't mean a thing.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Realist3

[Rose Auxerrois]

I find it telling and perhaps a little sad that so many of the betrayed are so quick to dismiss an understanding of why their partner came to love another. Perhaps of they were more ready to I der stand, and less quick to condemn, perhaps the partner would not have felt the need to seek another to love. Perhaps of they were more ready to seek to understand, there would be less chance of their partner needing to seek another in the future.

 

Perhaps if one prefers a simplistic view on people or life, one should only choose simple people to love.

[Realist3]

I find it telling and perhaps a little sad that so many of the betrayed are so quick to dismiss an understanding of why their partner came to love another. Perhaps of they were more ready to I der stand, and less quick to condemn, perhaps the partner would not have felt the need to seek another to love. Perhaps of they were more ready to seek to understand, there would be less chance of their partner needing to seek another in the future.

 

Perhaps if one prefers a simplistic view on people or life, one should only choose simple people to love.

 

 

It is too bad there isn't a BINGO! emoticon on this board, because you nailed it.

[anne1707]

I find it telling and perhaps a little sad that so many of the betrayed are so quick to dismiss an understanding of why their partner came to love another. Perhaps of they were more ready to I der stand, and less quick to condemn, perhaps the partner would not have felt the need to seek another to love. Perhaps of they were more ready to seek to understand, there would be less chance of their partner needing to seek another in the future.

 

Perhaps if one prefers a simplistic view on people or life, one should only choose simple people to love.

 

Why the need to undermine and insult BS?

[Betterthanthis13]

Which is exactly what I did. I read it and found relevant points that were made. I don't give a crap what the reviews say. If every BS on here went and reviewed it it could have 1000 negative reviews. That doesn't mean a thing.

 

"Relevant" and "logical" have different meanings. I found many relevant points made in her book, as well.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

Fall out of love with your spouse - fine. At that point, you should either fix the problem, work on the marriage, or move on and file for divorce.

 

OK, you didn't realize how bad it was until you met Mr./Ms./Mrs. Wonderful.

 

So you realize you are "in love" with someone else, not your spouse - fine.

 

Lie about it to one who loves you, to one you took vows with - not fine.

 

Tell the truth, remove yourself from the marriage, go be with the one you love.

 

Don't lie about it to the poor betrayed spouse. Set him/her free and go pursue your newfound love.

 

Pretty simple. Right and wrong. Lying and cheating is wrong. If you want to go, go, but why keep hiding and denying it to your betrayed spouse?

[HopingAgain]

I find it telling and perhaps a little sad that so many of the betrayed are so quick to dismiss an understanding of why their partner came to love another. Perhaps of they were more ready to I der stand, and less quick to condemn, perhaps the partner would not have felt the need to seek another to love. Perhaps of they were more ready to seek to understand, there would be less chance of their partner needing to seek another in the future.

 

Perhaps if one prefers a simplistic view on people or life, one should only choose simple people to love.

 

Oh, B.S. Most people with a conscience know that lying and betraying those who you made promises to and gave your word is not the RIGHT thing to do. It is universally accepted that if a person gives their word they should honor it, and that dishonesty is WRONG. So sometimes it really is "simple" and all of the fancy explanations and justifications given to appease the consciences of those who are desperate to escape those basic facts really doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

[HopingAgain]

Why the need to undermine and insult BS?

 

Do you really even need to ask that question? lol

[janedoe67]

The things isd....there is almost NEVER a case where the WS is completely and utterly evil and a BS has been the perfect spouse every second of the marriage. neither is there likely a case of the WS being a saint of perfection who finally crumbled after living with a BS who has no redeeming qualities.

 

For real recovery that doesn't look like a lifetime attachment based on mea culpa and punishment....the WS MUST 100% own their decision tio cheat with no "oh, look, I have this disorder that explains it" blame shirking. And the BS, at some point, has to be willing to take an honest look at their part of the pre-A marriage relationship. No one is perfect. No one needs no relationship improvement.

 

Nothing justifies an affair, but just like it is pretty much never accurate for there to be any hint of justification for an affair, it is pretty much never the case that both parties in the marriage couldn't stand to do some work on their side of the street.

 

And people who will not make the obvious and easy distinction between justifying and looking at the marriage as a whole are not going to have a recovered marriage worth having.....unless what they really want is for their WS to cower in the corner with no needs for the rest of their lives.

 

But as for this article - the reason I dismiss it is because it is one more thing that a WS can use to give a "reason" why they "just couldn't help it." Unless a WS has a psychotic break or is under some sort of heavy hypnosis....they CAN help it. That goes for an AP too.

[anne1707]

I just see the split self theory as an attempt to make honourable one of the least honourable things that can be done in a marriage.

[HopingAgain]

The things isd....there is almost NEVER a case where the WS is completely and utterly evil and a BS has been the perfect spouse every second of the marriage. neither is there likely a case of the WS being a saint of perfection who finally crumbled after living with a BS who has no redeeming qualities.

 

For real recovery that doesn't look like a lifetime attachment based on mea culpa and punishment....the WS MUST 100% own their decision tio cheat with no "oh, look, I have this disorder that explains it" blame shirking. And the BS, at some point, has to be willing to take an honest look at their part of the pre-A marriage relationship. No one is perfect. No one needs no relationship improvement.

 

Nothing justifies an affair, but just like it is pretty much never accurate for there to be any hint of justification for an affair, it is pretty much never the case that both parties in the marriage couldn't stand to do some work on their side of the street.

 

And people who will not make the obvious and easy distinction between justifying and looking at the marriage as a whole are not going to have a recovered marriage worth having.....unless what they really want is for their WS to cower in the corner with no needs for the rest of their lives.

 

But as for this article - the reason I dismiss it is because it is one more thing that a WS can use to give a "reason" why they "just couldn't help it." Unless a WS has a psychotic break or is under some sort of heavy hypnosis....they CAN help it. That goes for an AP too.

 

I wish I could like this 1000% times. IMO, one of the largest hurdles for WS's to overcome is their need to explain away the affair and shirk personal responsibility, and any label that they can apply to themselves that allows them to do so will suffice.

[Realist3]

"Relevant" and "logical" have different meanings. I found many relevant points made in her book, as well.

 

In that article I found both relevant and logical points.

[Realist3]

Why the need to undermine and insult BS?

 

How was that in insult? It was simply an observation, which has some merit.

[Praying4Peace]

Thanks for posting Moper. I was a MOW to a MM.

 

We talked about what this article says All The Time. We just never heard the terms for it. It's very true.

 

When you marry young you sometimes don't know yourself and neither does your spouse. People grow apart but the duty remains intact. Marriage is about more than love now- if you leave you affect finances and responsibility and stability. I've heard many women say they stay for those things...they might know there's no love but "you better fake it and make me believe you are over AP"

 

In the end- love and a true friendship/emotional connection feels great and it hurts like HELL to lose- but it also makes you feel happy to be responsible and stick with your values.

 

The secret is reconciling the two. I was able to do that so at least I feel authentic and in the end though I hurt ppl I don't need to lie and tell anyone "what they want to hear"

 

BSs might have split selves too- hence the should I go or should I stay war.

[2sure]

My X was a serial cheater, and when he fully grasped that I was divorcing him, he went with the approach that it was a diagnosed condition.

 

He and his doctor literally called me into the office for important news.

He is NPD, they talked about split self, insecurity, basically he has a condition that prevents him fom helping himself.

 

What I couldn't understand while I sat there, was how either one of them thought this changed a thing for me!

 

It's funny now, all that scrambling, the "revelation" . Yeah, he is a selfish pig. Ive told him that A million times, free of charge.

 

It's nothing new, just verbiage for a culture that wants character flaws diagnosed as something , to justify basically creepy behavior. Sure, I sympathize that his problem was based on insecurity ....but to tell you the truth, I find that amount of insecurity repellant .

[Betterthanthis13]

I find it telling and perhaps a little sad that so many of the betrayed are so quick to dismiss an understanding of why their partner came to love another.

 

I am a BS. I have quickly dismissed nothing. I have been on a quest to use my critical thinking skills and expand my knowledge on the topic of infidelity from every single viewpoint possible and approach each one with an open mind. I'm investigating everything from polyamory to sex addiction to sexless marriages to cake eaters etc etc etc. I have empathy for anyone who is trying to learn and heal from their involvement in an affair triangle, BS, WS, AP, family, friends, etc. Loveshack is one teeny tiny part of my inquiry.

 

What is that "telling" of?

 

 

Perhaps of they were more ready to I der stand, and less quick to condemn, perhaps the partner would not have felt the need to seek another to love. Perhaps of they were more ready to seek to understand, there would be less chance of their partner needing to seek another in the future.

 

Totally illogical and does not even make sense when said out loud- I tried

 

Your theory, I think? once I extract all the "perhaps" and loopy grammar, is:

 

A WS feels the need to seek out AP during marriage if BS is not ready to understand and is too quick to condemn

A WS needs to seek out "Another" in the future (?) if BS was "more ready" to seek to understand.

 

Please explain, this theory is not comprehendable

 

Perhaps if one prefers a simplistic view on people or life,

What is this simplistic view you are referring to? Please explain.

one should only choose simple people to love.

Who are these simple people you are referring to? Do you mean mentally handicapped people? What are you claiming? Your statements are not realistic. I am not simple. I challenge you to answer all my questions and have an enjoyable discussion with me until my "simple" mind is satisfied with your answers. If you cannot, it will not be because the concepts you attempt to explain to me are too complex- it will be because your arguments are not based in any sort of reasoning beyond anecdotal evidence, what "feels" good, to YOU, and you will eventually resort to telling me that "some things JUST ARE" in some version. And you will quit. Not me. I enjoy this. I'm going back to school for a dual program to get my masters and Phd simultaneously in sociology, (just got accepted, yay!) so this isn't a Scorned BS who can't move on. I love talking about interpersonal relationships and I love debate ready when you are!

 

 

 

Ill start another thread about the specific topics in "When Good People Have Affairs" that I take issue with, so we can debate those too. I hope I am not being too simplistic for you- I only hope I can keep up with you.

Im so excited!

[Betterthanthis13]

Fall out of love with your spouse - fine. At that point, you should either fix the problem, work on the marriage, or move on and file for divorce.

 

OK, you didn't realize how bad it was until you met Mr./Ms./Mrs. Wonderful.

 

So you realize you are "in love" with someone else, not your spouse - fine.

 

Lie about it to one who loves you, to one you took vows with - not fine.

 

Tell the truth, remove yourself from the marriage, go be with the one you love.

 

Don't lie about it to the poor betrayed spouse. Set him/her free and go pursue your newfound love.

 

Pretty simple. Right and wrong. Lying and cheating is wrong. If you want to go, go, but why keep hiding and denying it to your betrayed spouse?

 

Logic. Bingo!