Ladies: Dating men who have had 'FWB'

[RedRobin]

But I never really think that "it could happen to me" with the guy...maybe I'm naive but I feel like I'm girlfriend/wife material. And usually when guys come to me they are trying to be serious with me. Basically, I seem to attract what I project...which is "I'm that chick!"

 

And if I sense that somebody is trying to play me, out the door I go.

 

Same here.

 

The guys here are just pissed because I reject men for things they think are no big deal and are even PROUD of.

[ThaWholigan]

Same here.

 

The guys here are just pissed because I reject men for things they think are no big deal and are even PROUD of.

I don't think it's that - I think it's because they feel like you are attacking them for having an FWB.

 

I don't think you are bitter at all, I just think you're a hardass . I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but understand that because of the abrasive way you put things, it's likely to put you at odds with people regardless of whether it's justified or not. Especially when you speak on FWB relationships with such derogatory overtones, it's gonna rag on them. So it's not the fact that you rejected this guy really - it's the surrounding furore.

 

Me personally, I understand where you're coming from even though I don't agree with all of what you're saying. You're a bad bitch though - if you're gonna understand, you have to see it from another POV than your own.

[Pompeii]

Twenty pages in, it is quite clear that this thread is just one giant mental masturbation session for the OP. Why are you wasting our time with this if you keep asserting things that are counter to what people are telling you? You seem to make it seem as if there are ZERO "decent men" left in the world. Men are either already ruined in your eyes or have the potential to be ruined.

 

As I already said, if a woman held it against me that I had friends with benefits in the past, even once, then we have a huge problem. What if a friends with benefits scenario is only one way I can gain experience? Is that worse than a string of one night stands? What if I can't convert a girl to a girlfriend? Am I supposed to be celibate until I meet you, who would inevitably reject me because I have no experience? That's why I quit dating, because you can't win, especially with women like you who have such ridiculous expectations. What would I get out of you that I can't get from another woman? Is my ROI higher from you than someone else? With less headaches, scrutiny, criticism?

 

It's like a dragon eating its tail. It makes zero sense. But it seems there is no convincing you further. Good luck in your crusade against men who are inherently evil. I'm sure you'll win someday.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Pompeii

[Jane2011]

The key to some people's need for a FWB is to be happy with someone, because they can't be happy alone. Happiness is key. Some men can be happy alone. Full of joy, laughter and fun and be himself without needing a woman to fill in his loneliness. When he dates, he is himself, authentic and when he's hurt he can bounce back without carrying any repressed emotions (scars and baggages). People with repressed emotions are easily bitter, angry, frustrated etc.. His secret dating weapon when he dates women is that, he can WALK AWAY if a woman treats him badly through control and manipulation. He knows most women leverage sex through their own power trip. When these women have no sex to offer, what else can they do? Nothing. Only confident positive women who don't need to offer sex to get their men can offer something else; their feminity power through their confidence. She does not need to control their men through manipulation. Why do you need to delay sex? Sex is an adjunct to these happy relationships, not the means to an end.

 

Engaging yourself in FWB relationships basically carve a deeper wound on your issues and the means that you are going to justify these actions because in a way, you are going to project yourself as a victim. Some men here had done the right things; walk away from this as this goes against their moral values. It's because once you compromise your moral values is when your whole perspective on life itself goes downhill.

 

Best..

 

I really don't know why you responded to me with all that because I don't have anything against guys who have had FWB. There's probably varying degrees of eyebrow-raising one would naturally have about it, depending on the person in question and their specific, unique history (I think this would be the case for men toward women as well), but in general, I'd say I don't have a problem with men who have had FWB. I don't think it has much to do (the vast majority of the time) with how a person is in relationships. Your post was also confusing because it at first seems to defend men having FWB, then seems to condemn it. Not sure where you were going with that because it seems contradictory.

[RedRobin]

This thread is just one giant mental masturbation session for the OP. Why are you wasting our time with this if you keep asserting things that are counter to what people are telling you? You seem to make it seem as if there are ZERO "decent men" left in the world. Men are either already ruined in your eyes or have the potential to be ruined.

 

As I already said, if a woman held it against me that I had friends with benefits in the past, even once, then we have a huge problem. What if a friends with benefits scenario is only one way I can gain experience? Is that worse than a string of one night stands? What if I can't convert a girl to a girlfriend? Am I supposed to be celibate until I meet you, who would inevitably reject me because I have no experience?

 

It's like a dragon eating its tail. It makes zero sense. But it seems there is no convincing you further. Good luck in your crusade against men who are inherently evil. I'm sure you'll win someday.

 

You are right... it is getting rather old...

[Babolat]

Actually, I find RedRobin quite attractive! I am the rare one amongst my male friends...I do not have FWB and for me, sex is emotional, it's pure intimacy. I do not have one night stands, I don't pick up women in bars or clubs.

 

I feel like the odd man out many times; it's my choice though and I do not judge my male friends for what they do; I simply chose not to be with them when they are acing and behaving that way.

[ThaWholigan]

Actually, I find RedRobin quite attractive! I am the rare one amongst my male friends...I do not have FWB and for me, sex is emotional, it's pure intimacy. I do not have one night stands, I don't pick up women in bars or clubs.

 

I feel like the odd man out many times; it's my choice though and I do not judge my male friends for what they do; I simply chose not to be with them when they are acing and behaving that way.

I kinda know what you mean - I have done the FWB thing simply out of experience, and while it was fun, it wasn't........well, it kinda lacked the intimacy I hoped it would have. I mean, if you're friends - surely there should be a bit, otherwise it's just a f*ck buddy. It was still fun though and I appreciate the experience. She will always be dear to my heart.

 

Having said that, I wouldn't do it again really. I feel like I've past that threshold. I do now feel like an odd man out again simply because before I was that virgin friend - now I'm that guy that doesn't f*ck around much. So everything changed and nothing changed.

 

I too don't see anything wrong with RedRobin.

[Jane2011]

I agree that RedRobin shouldn't be condemned too much. Even though I'm much more relaxed about dating a man who has had an FWB before, this thread seems like it's saying "How dare you have standards that I and most men don't fit into."

 

I knew a guy who was like RedRobin. He thought of sex as a lot more sacred than the average person. He'd probably not want to date me and a lot of other women I know.

 

But he has a girlfriend right now, and has for the past two years. He got someone he wanted, and realistically, saying to him, if I did, that he's too harsh and restrictive is just...trying to bring him downward, really. I could probably tell him 'til I was blue in the face how the sex I've had and the sex a lot of women have had was not as dirty as he thinks, and that it was coming from a place of golden-heartedness and loneliness and/or our humanity. But in the end, do I really want to grovel for his approval? No. Just let him have his standards. He thinks he's too good for me. So be it.

[joystickd]

I agree that RedRobin shouldn't be condemned too much. Even though I'm much more relaxed about dating a man who has had an FWB before, this thread seems like it's saying "How dare you have standards that I and most men don't fit into."

 

I knew a guy who was like RedRobin. He thought of sex as a lot more sacred than the average person. He'd probably not want to date me and a lot of other women I know.

 

But he has a girlfriend right now, and has for the past two years. He got someone he wanted, and realistically, saying to him, if I did, that he's too harsh and restrictive is just...trying to bring him downward, really. I could probably tell him 'til I was blue in the face how the sex I've had and the sex a lot of women have had was not as dirty as he thinks, and that it was coming from a place of golden-heartedness and loneliness and/or our humanity. But in the end, do I really want to grovel for his approval? No. Just let him have his standards. He thinks he's too good for me. So be it.

It's not even that. It's the way she portrays men as being users but fail to take into account the woman enabling. These women have independent minds and are able to look at a situation and see it's not working. When they choose to stay they are willing participants.

 

I know I have capitalized on situations but I know if the woman stood her ground and did what she needed to do in a few of those situation she would have been my GF. In general relationships have two people and when they don't work out or turn bad both people are accountable.

[Jane2011]

It's not even that. It's the way she portrays men as being users but fail to take into account the woman enabling. These women have independent minds and are able to look at a situation and see it's not working. When they choose to stay they are willing participants.

 

I know I have capitalized on situations but I know if the woman stood her ground and did what she needed to do in a few of those situation she would have been my GF. In general relationships have two people and when they don't work out or turn bad both people are accountable.

 

Okay...understood.

 

I'll admit I haven't read all of RedRobin's posts and the nuances (or level of criticism) there was to them.

 

I would agree that the assumption that all FWB situations are rooted in using/evil/malice, etc. is unfair.

 

In reality, a lot of FWB situations are very, very relationship-like.

[joystickd]

Okay...understood.

 

I'll admit I haven't read all of RedRobin's posts and the nuances (or level of criticism) there was to them.

 

I would agree that the assumption that all FWB situations are rooted in using/evil/malice, etc. is unfair.

 

In reality, a lot of FWB situations are very, very relationship-like.

That the thing a lot are. If a woman gets feelings after knowing what the situations is and gets upset she played herself. No one show men sympathy when they become the surrogate boyfriend and they get mad.

 

She has a lot of negative statements about men but at the same time says they are capable of better things. It's one thing to have standard but the negative statements make her come off as bitter.

[salparadise]

I agree that RedRobin shouldn't be condemned too much. Even though I'm much more relaxed about dating a man who has had an FWB before, this thread seems like it's saying "How dare you have standards that I and most men don't fit into."

 

^^^ Exactly.

 

You can't decide what someone's values, beliefs and priorities should be. And when theirs aren't the same as yours, you can't advise based on yours and dismiss theirs. You have to accept who they are, try to view the situation from their perspective, and generate solutions that are not colored by your judgements.

 

I give RR grief from time to time about the credit reports, but I'd never try and convince her that she has no right to choose based on whatever she considers a priority. If she has decided she wants a virtuous man, she has every right to search the earth for the remainder of her days in hopes of finding one. I'm not even sure there is such a thing as a virtuous women in the 21st century. Gosh, my college lit teacher would have a field day on the notion of a virtuous man!

[joystickd]

^^^ Exactly.

 

You can't decide what someone's values, beliefs and priorities should be. And when theirs aren't the same as yours, you can't advise based on yours and dismiss theirs. You have to accept who they are, try to view the situation from their perspective, and generate solutions that are not colored by your judgements.

 

I give RR grief from time to time about the credit reports, but I'd never try and convince her that she has no right to choose based on whatever she considers a priority. If she has decided she wants a virtuous man, she has every right to search the earth for the remainder of her days in hopes of finding one. I'm not even sure there is such a thing as a virtuous women in the 21st century. Gosh, my college lit teacher would have a field day on the notion of a virtuous man!

Lol credit report!

 

You wouldn't need to. Showing a credit score would be enough.

 

I wouldn't ask those things of near strangers. If I were at the point of becoming intimate though, those were things I'd need to see before taking the next step.

The thing is anyone that says this is a huge red flag. It's the simple fact of how she said it

[Divasu]

So, I'm starting this thread not sure what I want from posters. I suppose, much like the people who knowingly or unknowingly enter into FWB situations.

 

My problem is this... If a guy tells me he had a FWB, my first thought is... "Hmm. How am I going to know he's not trying to make ME one?"

 

Why do I ask? Because I don't really believe most people enter into them knowingly. A lot of them kind of slide into that when one person or the other decides the person they are having rather 'oopsie' sex with isn't so-called 'relationship material' or their feelings fade for whatever reason and they don't have the backbone to end the situation.

 

... and then things carry on until one of them finds someone else. Of course, it usually the person keeping their default FWB in the dark hoping to monkey branch without having to spend any *gasp* time alone or sex-free.

 

I'm also asking because I just dumped a guy who I learned had a FWB for THREE YEARS, after which he had another relationship for two years with someone he claimed to love. Yes, this is the term he called her. I asked him about it, why he was with someone he didn't love for so long. He didn't have a good answer. Of course, *I* am different (rolleyes). Haven't we heard all this before??

 

I just couldn't trust him after that, no matter what he did. I figured if he could do that to her, he could do that to me. I can only imagine what he might have said to keep her around. I'm not sure if she knows he considered her a FWB... and not a GF.

 

He is the first person I've ever dated for any period of time who admitted to having a FWB.

 

If I have a question, it is more to the ladies. Could you love or trust someone knowing he had used someone just for sex? And did so for an extended period?

 

In the future, I will probably just tell a guy our values aren't compatible if he admits to that... rather than try to work through it. We had a lot of things in common otherwise, though, so it is a shame.

 

Thoughts??

 

Not every guy HAS to be in a committed relationship all the time. Why? Because sometimes a man is with someone significant to him and things don't work out, and he is back out on the market casually dating because he's not ready to jump back into another relationship.

 

Having said that, as long as he isn't lying/misleading women into these "FWB" arrangements, he doesn't have a history of cheating and/or wild group sex orgies in the past, then him seeing someone casually in the past isn't that detrimental. Of course, if the guy is past his 40's and has only had a string of casual relationships, it's only natural to think "what is up with THAT". Hmm.

[phineas]

Most single men these days are quite happy just using women for sex... feelings and consideration come much, much later... if at all.

 

You've said so yourself many times. So have the other men here.

 

So, am not sure what your problem is... that I'm calling it for what it is??

 

Or is it like one of those things that only MEN are allowed to divulge and back-slap about. Is that it??? It's ok for men to acknowledge that they just use women for sex... but if a woman calls it out, then you have a problem?

 

I do get it that you guys want to be viewed as honorable and above reproach when it suits you... Nice try.

 

Are you daft woman?

I can care less about your insane checklist for man.

 

It's the fact you are denigrating others for not believing the way you do & portraying every man as some kind of sexual predator who conned a woman into taking her panties off for him when that clearly isn't the case.

 

seek help.

[phineas]

Why am I still single? Because I didn't want to marry them. However, they were caring, honest, considerate men. There were just things that would cause problems down the road.

 

One of them I still work with occasionally in my community/volunteer work. The other is now one of my best friends. I helped him find his current GF... they are definitely a better fit than he and I. His GF and I are now friends too.

 

One of the reasons, I'm sure, that she feels comfortable with me is because there was no backsliding or FWB type stuff after the fact between me and him.

 

So you just had casual relationships with them.

 

That is what you call a relationship you don't intend to go anywhere you do realize don't you?

[therhythm]

So you just had casual relationships with them.

 

That is what you call a relationship you don't intend to go anywhere you do realize don't you?

 

Not only that, if she had sex with them, we could argue it was a FWB arrangement

[sillyanswer]

I just couldn't trust him after that, no matter what he did. I figured if he could do that to her, he could do that to me. I can only imagine what he might have said to keep her around. I'm not sure if she knows he considered her a FWB... and not a GF.

 

Maybe it was less about what he said and more about what he did with her that kept her around. Perhaps she was happy to have a casual relationship and happy having casual sex with him.

 

Not your style, which is fine, but it turns out that some women like casual sex under a variety of conditions.

[RedRobin]

So you just had casual relationships with them.

 

That is what you call a relationship you don't intend to go anywhere you do realize don't you?

 

No. I broke up with them when I realized I didn't want to marry them or vice versa. In both cases, we dated for about a year. Neither of them have FWB nor do I.

 

In the first case, he married the next woman he dated.

 

The second... he and his GF are talking about marriage. He is one of my best friends and I'm friends with his GF too... as I already mentioned.

 

Obviously, you don't know many women like me and I sure don't make a habit of hanging around men like you... we are essentially speaking a totally different language... so it probably isn't worth continuing the discussion.

 

I know very well how you feel about women, Phineas. You haven't had a decent relationship since your divorce. Just come here waving your d*ck around about how many women agree to come over for a 'movie' blah-blah... Do you have female friends? sisters? any women in your life you think highly of??

 

I'm thinking no.

Edited May 29, 2013 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

Maybe it was less about what he said and more about what he did with her that kept her around. Perhaps she was happy to have a casual relationship and happy having casual sex with him.

 

Not your style, which is fine, but it turns out that some women like casual sex under a variety of conditions.

 

Perhaps. I had no chance to verify... and I also had a feeling his overall relationship style IS more casual... which just means we aren't a match. He could talk all day about how it wouldn't be casual with ME but that was just talk. His actions seemed to indicate otherwise. Which is why I couldn't trust him... and why I had my doubts about how things really played out with the FWB.

 

These are things one learns in the first month and a half or so. He was the first guy I met who had a FWB... so I had to go through this little exercise to see how I felt about it.

 

Like I said before... I can't say I'd necessarily rule out a guy in the future who had a FWB... but it would certainly lead me to look for other behaviors... I wouldn't just blow it off and say it was nothing. THAT is for sure.

[RedRobin]

At least she got dates? Maybe he wined and dined her. Oh wait that's using people. Dang morals!

 

No. We mostly did things together that were free. Biking, hiking, running, etc.

 

We are both frugal people and think eating out is a big waste of money.

 

We both invested our time... so we are equal there.

[Mme. Chaucer]

If a person's personal ethics may include the idea of "friends with benefits," while you believe that sex should ONLY happen in a fully committed relationship with eyes pointed towards marriage, then you are probably simply incompatible with a man who's had this arrangement. Nothing wrong with that.

 

But I do not agree with all the aspersions you are casting upon the characters of people (men) who happen to have different values regarding sexuality than you do.

 

The FWB arrangement is NOT about "using people for sex." It's about having a relationship that's based on sex and does not include love, romance, future planning, etc. It's not for everybody, but it's not reprehensible or indicative of poor character.

 

It takes TWO agreeing participants.

 

I also don't agree that a man is going to "try to make" you into a friend with benefits. Well, some guys might - I think ONE has weighed in on this thread. Mostly, though, a person who'll enter into this kind of arrangement is the exact opposite of a "player" or a user. Probably he is above average in the honesty and reciprocity departments. Just on a different page than you are with regards to his sexual life.

 

Also, in your OP I got the impression that if you found yourself in a relationship that included sex and which went on for a while but did not end up in marriage - but the guy moved on to a relationship that DID lead to marriage - you might infer that he had been "using" you as a FWB until "something better" came along. I doubt this would often be the case. Usually, it would be more like … a relationship that did not work out.

 

So, bottom line is that I think it's valid for YOU to exclude any guy who does not share your values regarding sex from your dating pool. But also that you should be able to respect a person's decisions regarding the way they conduct their OWN sex lives (men and women alike) without seeing stuff that's different from you as "bad."

 

And, in answer to your question: though I would never, never enter into a FWB situation because I absolutely do not have the emotional makeup for it, I would certainly be open to dating a man who had. I think I would respect him extra for having the honor to be upfront with another person and to look for reciprocity rather than using women for sex, and for sharing that with me as we began to get closer to a serious relationship.

[RedRobin]

I don't need to take it on face value that a guy who has had a long running FWB is capable of having a serious relationship.

 

He needs to demonstrate that he is capable of it, and find some way to address my concerns... because he is the one who has already demonstrated otherwise.

 

He has demonstrated his style is more casual. So it seems reasonable that if he wants a woman whose style is NOT casual... well... he's got work to do. SORRY GUYS.

 

I've already demonstrated that I'm capable of maintaining a serious LTR... so it is a no-brainer for him to date ME, or try to. No doubt that makes him very comfortable. Good for him.

 

If you guys are so A-OK with FWB, then you can find women who are also A-OK with it and you can live happily ever after.

[RedRobin]

If a person's personal ethics may include the idea of "friends with benefits," while you believe that sex should ONLY happen in a fully committed relationship with eyes pointed towards marriage, then you are probably simply incompatible with a man who's had this arrangement. Nothing wrong with that.

 

But I do not agree with all the aspersions you are casting upon the characters of people (men) who happen to have different values regarding sexuality than you do.

 

The FWB arrangement is NOT about "using people for sex." It's about having a relationship that's based on sex and does not include love, romance, future planning, etc. It's not for everybody, but it's not reprehensible or indicative of poor character.

 

It takes TWO agreeing participants.

 

I also don't agree that a man is going to "try to make" you into a friend with benefits. Well, some guys might - I think ONE has weighed in on this thread. Mostly, though, a person who'll enter into this kind of arrangement is the exact opposite of a "player" or a user. Probably he is above average in the honesty and reciprocity departments. Just on a different page than you are with regards to his sexual life.

 

Also, in your OP I got the impression that if you found yourself in a relationship that included sex and which went on for a while but did not end up in marriage - but the guy moved on to a relationship that DID lead to marriage - you might infer that he had been "using" you as a FWB until "something better" came along. I doubt this would often be the case. Usually, it would be more like … a relationship that did not work out.

 

So, bottom line is that I think it's valid for YOU to exclude any guy who does not share your values regarding sex from your dating pool. But also that you should be able to respect a person's decisions regarding the way they conduct their OWN sex lives (men and women alike) without seeing stuff that's different from you as "bad."

 

And, in answer to your question: though I would never, never enter into a FWB situation because I absolutely do not have the emotional makeup for it, I would certainly be open to dating a man who had. I think I would respect him extra for having the honor to be upfront with another person and to look for reciprocity rather than using women for sex, and for sharing that with me as we began to get closer to a serious relationship.

 

I respect your opinion a great deal, and your experience as well.

 

I'll take your words to heart as I seek to navigate things in the future.

 

Thank you!

[Mme. Chaucer]

Thank you for the compliment in your post. I have a little more to add which I hope you won't feel offended by. Here goes:

 

He needs to demonstrate that he is capable of it, and find some way to address my concerns... because he is the one who has already demonstrated otherwise.

 

He has demonstrated his style is more casual. So it seems reasonable that if he wants a woman whose style is NOT casual... well... he's got work to do. SORRY GUYS.

 

I have said this before and I feel like saying it again in this context:

 

I DO believe that you do the right thing by yourself when you adhere to your standards regarding values when deciding whom to date, especially since you're looking for a long term relationship;

 

However, I am put off by your attitude that all men have to prove stuff to you in order for you to think they might be "good enough." You approach all as if they're guilty of being a douche until proven otherwise, and so far, this has not happened.

 

Can't you just leave it at: we're not a good match?

 

Sure, some people are scumbags, but a man who's had casual relationships really doesn't have to prove anything to you at all. Accept him as he is, or just move on and look for someone you feel is compatible.

 

I've already demonstrated that I'm capable of maintaining a serious LTR... so it is a no-brainer for him to date ME, or try to. No doubt that makes him very comfortable. Good for him.

 

I don't agree. He has just as much right and bounds for deciding he's not interested or compatible with you based on what he's learning about YOU as vice versa.

 

Dating is not a proving ground where somebody is supposed to demonstrate to the other person that they might have the capacity to change into who that person would prefer. Dating ideally is where you both bring YOURSELVES. If the interest is enough, people will explore further and get to know more about each other. And decisions are made on both peoples' parts.

 

One of the parties is not inherently in a superior position, especially based on their sex.

 

This kind of attitude is not going to help you find a great relationship, and I know that's what you want.