America has a problem. How much bigger will we get?

[sweetjasmine]

Apples at 99 cents I wish I haven't seen them under 1.29 in years.

 

I have been poor very poor. and I can tell you that for a family it is much cheaper to buy mac & Cheese. 80% lean hamburg hamburger helper than it is to buy fresh fruit, milk, 95% lean beef. etc....

 

My grocery bill is $250 every 2 weeks. With some fill in. I live in NE and I know the food here is a lot more expensive than say in the mid west. Good bread is $4.00 a loaf. Milk is almost $4 a gallon. eggs $2.49 a dozen. etc....

 

Same here. In season, apples are $1.29ish/lb, and we live out in apple country. Out of season, higher. Red bell peppers range from $2.49-3.99/lb. Eggs are $2.49 a dozen on sale. Milk is at least $3/gal. Crappy white bread is $1.99/loaf, and decent multigrain bread is $4/loaf. 1 lb of greek yogurt is $4. Mixed greens are fairly cheap, as are carrots, lettuce, and celery. Tomatoes can get up to $3.49/lb. Broccoli tends to hover around $1.99/lb, same as brussel sprouts. Mushrooms are usually steady, too, at around $4 for 16 oz.

 

For comparison, the store brand mac & cheese in a box is almost always on sale for 3 boxes for 99 cents, and frozen meals go through regular markdowns.

 

We buy fresh produce, dairy (milk, eggs, block of cheese, butter), some canned things (tomato sauce, tomato paste, stock/broth, occasional can of coconut milk), pasta, occasional box of plain cereal, chicken, beef, pork, dry beans, lots of spices. We cook almost every meal at home and sometimes make bread, ravioli, etc. from scratch. And our grocery bills are still about $70-100/week.

 

So many of these things vary from place to place that it's silly to judge how much others spend unless you live in the same town. And all of the sales and coupons vary, too. Here, the coupons we get are for processed food, junk, and crap that we don't normally eat. There aren't any coupons for fresh produce or staples like milk and eggs. And the loss leader sales are also mostly soda, juice, cookies, chips, salsa, frozen prepared foods. Sometimes they'll put out something we use a lot like chicken stock, but trying to shop healthy with coupons and loss leader sales is not a reliable strategy.

[Taramere]

Same here. In season, apples are $1.29ish/lb, and we live out in apple country. Out of season, higher. Red bell peppers range from $2.49-3.99/lb. Eggs are $2.49 a dozen on sale. Milk is at least $3/gal. Crappy white bread is $1.99/loaf, and decent multigrain bread is $4/loaf. 1 lb of greek yogurt is $4. Mixed greens are fairly cheap, as are carrots, lettuce, and celery. Tomatoes can get up to $3.49/lb. Broccoli tends to hover around $1.99/lb, same as brussel sprouts. Mushrooms are usually steady, too, at around $4 for 16 oz.

 

For comparison, the store brand mac & cheese in a box is almost always on sale for 3 boxes for 99 cents, and frozen meals go through regular markdowns.

 

We buy fresh produce, dairy (milk, eggs, block of cheese, butter), some canned things (tomato sauce, tomato paste, stock/broth, occasional can of coconut milk), pasta, occasional box of plain cereal, chicken, beef, pork, dry beans, lots of spices. We cook almost every meal at home and sometimes make bread, ravioli, etc. from scratch. And our grocery bills are still about $70-100/week.

 

So many of these things vary from place to place that it's silly to judge how much others spend unless you live in the same town. And all of the sales and coupons vary, too. Here, the coupons we get are for processed food, junk, and crap that we don't normally eat. There aren't any coupons for fresh produce or staples like milk and eggs. And the loss leader sales are also mostly soda, juice, cookies, chips, salsa, frozen prepared foods. Sometimes they'll put out something we use a lot like chicken stock, but trying to shop healthy with coupons and loss leader sales is not a reliable strategy.

 

I hear what you're saying about crap being cheap, SJ. Looking at the prices you give, although bread and potatoes are slightly cheaper here we pay more for everything else (and on lower average salaries). I'm always reading about food stamps on here, so I took a look, and found this chart:

 

http://www.massresources.org/snap-benefits.html#amount

[Taramere]

Same here. In season, apples are $1.29ish/lb, and we live out in apple country. Out of season, higher. Red bell peppers range from $2.49-3.99/lb. Eggs are $2.49 a dozen on sale. Milk is at least $3/gal. Crappy white bread is $1.99/loaf, and decent multigrain bread is $4/loaf. 1 lb of greek yogurt is $4. Mixed greens are fairly cheap, as are carrots, lettuce, and celery. Tomatoes can get up to $3.49/lb. Broccoli tends to hover around $1.99/lb, same as brussel sprouts. Mushrooms are usually steady, too, at around $4 for 16 oz.

 

For comparison, the store brand mac & cheese in a box is almost always on sale for 3 boxes for 99 cents, and frozen meals go through regular markdowns.

 

We buy fresh produce, dairy (milk, eggs, block of cheese, butter), some canned things (tomato sauce, tomato paste, stock/broth, occasional can of coconut milk), pasta, occasional box of plain cereal, chicken, beef, pork, dry beans, lots of spices. We cook almost every meal at home and sometimes make bread, ravioli, etc. from scratch. And our grocery bills are still about $70-100/week.

 

So many of these things vary from place to place that it's silly to judge how much others spend unless you live in the same town. And all of the sales and coupons vary, too. Here, the coupons we get are for processed food, junk, and crap that we don't normally eat. There aren't any coupons for fresh produce or staples like milk and eggs. And the loss leader sales are also mostly soda, juice, cookies, chips, salsa, frozen prepared foods. Sometimes they'll put out something we use a lot like chicken stock, but trying to shop healthy with coupons and loss leader sales is not a reliable strategy.

 

I hear what you're saying about crap like burgers being cheap, SJ. I tend to think of those being comprised of the parts of the animal that get turned into either dog food or burgers. Looking at the prices you give, although bread and potatoes are slightly cheaper here we pay more for everything else (and on lower average salaries). I'm always reading about food stamps on here. I took a look, and found this chart:

 

http://www.massresources.org/snap-benefits.html#amount

 

So a family of four would get $668 which is £439. £109 per week. It's a sum where you would have to economise and do a certain amount of planning, of course, but a healthy diet on that allowance and taking into account the prices you mentioned for fresh produce is extremely doable. If people who get that allowance are stocking up with 3 boxes for 99c burgers and cheap soda...well, I don't approve of that healthwise, but they could buy a fair bit of that crap for in between meal snacks and still have enough to provide healthy main meals. Unless they are consuming far more than they need. Or trading the food stamps for things other than food.

 

Which is where the problem seems to be. Nobody need struggle to eat healthily on the food allowance going by the chart I saw and according to the prices you've given.

 

Sorry - new laptop, very touch sensitive (it's pissing me off) hence part-duplicate post.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Taramere

[kaylan]

^Also, Ive known a couple families who went to a couple food pantries twice a month to stock up on food. It wasnt the best brands, nor was the food always its freshest (nearing expiration date), but it saved cash, and it saved whatever public assistance they had.

 

Theyd wait on LONG lines waiting for the church to open its monthly pantry give out of donated food. People who really try to budget, do everything they can to make due.

 

These 2 families are the antithesis of the coworkers Tara had in the past. Sadly, not many poor folks are as resourceful as those families. Many dont truly sit down and budget their finances. You see it when you go to Walmart.

 

Walmart is central for many towns, and small cities of the suburbs. So its common for people from many neighboring towns, and various economic backgrounds, to all go to the same Walmart. When I see the crap some people buy, I truly shake my head. It isnt all people...but how hard is it to hunt for sales? How hard is it to read the nutrition labels, the price per pound figures on the shelves, and the weight of the food you are buying?

 

Thats what I do so I can get the most food, for the least price, but also within my personal nutrition parameters. No, everyone doesnt have a big discount market like Walmart, or Shoprite in their areas...but Im just saying that I shop at the same markets as poorer and more well to do folks...and since we all have the same food options, it makes no sense that some poorer folks seem unable to budget or eat properly.

[mesmerized]

I love this America's problem. Nowhere else in the world I can fit in an XS shirt/dress. I say America rocks. :laugh:I was in Europe a couple of years ago shopping and I went for the small sizes thinking that's my size. The guy working there told me it's not the right size but I insisted it is and went on and tried it on. Humiliating when I couldn't even do the buttons of the blazer.

[kaylan]

I wouldnt mind seeing you in extra small shirts:o And who needs multiple buttons? One is enough xD

[FitChick]

Put kids on the WWII diet.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm going to the Dairy Queen for a chocolate milkshake, and stopping for some delicious Easter candy on my way home. Can I bring y'all anything?

[EasyHeart]

Do they still make Dilly Bars?!?!?

[Taramere]

Put kids on the WWII diet.

 

Put them on a French diet. Well...the diet some French people still eat (not the increasingly portly ones who have succumbed to McDonalds and overeating).

 

Mimi Spencer takes a look at French women's eating habits | Life and style | The Observer

 

'A croissant in Paris is one ounce,' notes Chris Rosenbloom, a professor of nutrition at Georgia State University, 'while in Pittsburgh it's two.' America is indeed the land of giant pastries. I remember being overwhelmed by the sheer girth of a muffin I once bought at a coffee shop in New York - but, like all of the dead-eyed cows in the joint - I worked my way through it under the wayward assumption that it constituted a 'portion' and therefore ought to be finished.

 

In the UK, a big mac with fries and a drink for £1.99 is considered a special deal, and the adverts make it look as though it would be a filling meal. Just under £8 for a family of four...but guaranteed a couple of hours later at least one or two members of that family will be looking for something else to eat because their hunger hasn't been satisfied. That's the special deal McDonalds offers. For me to cut up 8 very thick slices of specialty bread, open a slab of pate and a round of Camembert and lay them out on dishes, then slice up a cucumber and a few tomatoes - we're talking about 5 minutes. It's not exactly hard labour. Cost from a mainstream supermarket, adding in a carton of fresh orange juice, would be £10. A couple more pounds than the McDonalds special deal - but it's healthier than McDonalds, and it's going to keep them satisfied for longer.

 

Also, given that I'd be buying two loaves of the specialty bread and wouldn't be using all the salad I'd bought, there would be enough left over that I could give them the same lunch the next day just by spending another fiver or so. Two lunches for four for £15 isn't in the realms of a food stamp budget, but if I bought most of the stuff from a discount store like Lidls and economised on the amount and quality of bread I served then it would probably be more like two lunches for four for less than a tenner. The problem is, will children actually eat that sort of food? They will if it's what they're brought up with, but if they're used to being taken to McDonalds they're probably going to be horrified by the notion of any cheese that isn't cheddar or a processed slice. Kids naturally gravitate to the kind of junk McDonalds sells.

 

I know from working in that home all those years ago and also from my niece & nephew that it can take some work to educate their palates towards other things. The kind of food that keeps people satisfied for longer often has a naturally strong taste that children won't necessarily like straight away - and especially not if other adults around them are giving them messages about the unfamiliar food being "pretentious" or "gross". Which those other adults will, if they too were brought up with junk food and developed a taste for artificial flavours over natural ones.

 

There's also that element of inverted snobbery that I already mentioned. A preference for fairly bland nursery food (I'm talking about some British tastes rather than American here) to demonstrate "I'm real, grounded and down to earth. None of this continental crap for me." Also, because the portions don't look huge they might not feel that they're getting enough to eat. I found it very difficult to educate teens away from that kind of thinking back when I worked with them...so instead I just did my thing, and let them do theirs. I found that the more curious ones started to develop a bit of interest in the food I ate and wanted to try it out for themselves. Of course, you can imagine how those menu requests were discussed by certain staff members at the weekly staff meetings.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Taramere

[Emilia]

 

Endless excuses and a near pathological distaste for anything that smacked remotely of self sufficiency or frugality. The heating in that place was always being turned up full blast. I'd turn it down and get ranted at. These were people who made a lot of noise about being tough and working class survivors, but my God...they didn't seem to be equipped for anything beyond sitting eating vast amounts of food in an overheated environment. I learned that if you try to make suggestions to people like that about how they could eat more cheaply and more healthily you'll get all that "inflicting middle class values, you don't know what it's like, silver spoon" etc. So you end up just shrugging and thinking "let them get on with it. Let them be poor, fat and unhealthy if they're too stubborn and preoccupied with inverted snobbery to be anything else."

 

Very well put Taramere, I'm so glad you posted about inverted snobbery, it is still a taboo subject in the UK. You have to be so careful about not offending those from a working class background that no-one is allowed to call a spade a spade - unless you are a middle class kid like my ex-husband who used to stack shelves at Sainsbury's during his university years and listened to the same c**p that you mentioned. Or a working class friend of mine who was ostracised by his mates on his council estate when he went to university for being 'uppity' and 'getting above his station'. The biggest curse for the decent, hard working person with aspirations, when peer pressure and your own environment hold you back

[ForeverHopeful1]

Amen to the OP!

[nofool4u]

For one, some people can't afford to pack lunch for their children.

 

People can pack their kids' lunch for less than $2.00/day.

 

But you'd rather them go hungry I guess.

 

So we are now going from the argument that gov't dictate what kids can and can't eat to "But you'd rather them go hungry I guess".?? Straw man much?

 

I'm saying that you take away what kids like to eat, and they won't eat it.

Its ridiculous the lengths gov't goes to to ban certain things.

 

 

And you asked me "why" on another thread and this could be why some people dislike the Republican Party and their thinking.

 

Its not the Republicans trying to ban certain items from school menus. Stick with the discussion and quit making things up. This discussion of which you and I were engaging is about gov't banning things from a school lunch program. Not having kids go hungry. That was something you came up with in your own head. Not from me.

 

The meanest people in our country seem to be them.

 

You are making this argument into something its not. Care to discuss the issue instead of making things up?

Edited April 1, 2013 by nofool4u

[FitChick]

Most of the kids won't starve if "forced" to eat good food. They will wait until they are really hungry and know they won't get their usual treats. When you are really hungry, food tastes really good.

 

Besides, most fat kids and people could live for days on their fat stores, so I wouldn't worry about them starving to death. A long fast might actually be beneficial.

[nofool4u]

Most of the kids won't starve if "forced" to eat good food. They will wait until they are really hungry and know they won't get their usual treats. When you are really hungry, food tastes really good.

 

Besides, most fat kids and people could live for days on their fat stores, so I wouldn't worry about them starving to death. A long fast might actually be beneficial.

 

Of course they won't starve, and the insinuation that anyone would want that is ridiculous at best.

 

My point about the school lunch program going "bye bye" is that if the gov't restricts the lunches to only that which is healthy, which should facilitate the banning of most of their menu, then the kids will end up bringing their own lunches. Not many of them are going to want to eat government approved foods.

 

And the whole while they are banning foods at school lunch, they'll be doing so over fattening dinner conversations. Just like Al Gore driving an SUV while preaching that the rest of us need to drive dinky Prius'

Edited April 1, 2013 by nofool4u

[clia]

Of course they won't starve, and the insinuation that anyone would want that is ridiculous at best.

 

My point about the school lunch program going "bye bye" is that if the gov't restricts the lunches to only that which is healthy, which should facilitate the banning of most of their menu, then the kids will end up bringing their own lunches. Not many of them are going to want to eat government approved foods.

 

And the whole while they are banning foods at school lunch, they'll be doing so over fattening dinner conversations. Just like Al Gore driving an SUV while preaching that the rest of us need to drive dinky Prius'

 

Unfortunately a lot of deadbeat parents out there can't even be bothered to pack a lunch for their kid (much less a healthy lunch) or serve them breakfast, so the school lunch (and now breakfast in a lot of places) program is the only way they get any substantial meals.

 

I totally agree with the original post. I was out walking around the city on the Saturday before St. Patrick's Day, and the streets were packed with drunk people in their early 20s stumbling around. I couldn't believe how heavy so many of the girls in that age range are -- and they were stumbling around in skin tight, skimpy clothes, often with their gut (or muffin top) hanging out. It's like it's so normal that they don't even realize how terrible they look. I'm not that old (38), but I feel like when I was in my early 20s the majority of girls in my age group were thin or average, with obese being the outliers. Now it seems like the other way around. Very sad -- but not shocking if you consider how huge portion sizes are nearly everywhere you go.

[hotgurl]

Discount supermarkets cost me WAY less than any dollar menu meal. Eating garbage is more expensive. Saying that it costs less than cheaper healthy food at the market is bullcrap. Maybe organic food is expensive, but regular discount market food isnt...especially if you clip coupons and look for sales.

 

People make too many excuses for the lazy. People eat poorly because of sloth and convenience.

THis.

 

I learned how to make scratch pancakes from googling it. Saved me money and filled me up. Instead of wasting money on pancake mix, all I needed was a big ole bad of flour, a tin of baking soda, and keep my regular stock of milk and eggs.

250 for how many people?

 

I can scrape by with 150 in a month, when on a cutting diet. On my bulking diet 225 works well.

A family of 3 2 adults and a teenager. I make most things from scratch. The meat, fish & fresh fruit is what ups the bill and there are never any coupons for that stuff. I also live in a high price area. My relatives are appalled at how much more food costs here than where they live.

[Emilia]

A family of 3 2 adults and a teenager. I make most things from scratch. The meat, fish & fresh fruit is what ups the bill and there are never any coupons for that stuff. I also live in a high price area. My relatives are appalled at how much more food costs here than where they live.

 

Wouldn't online delivery from cheaper shops work in your area? It's possible all around London for example, you don't have to shop in expensive shops if you don't want to.

[xxoo]

Wouldn't online delivery from cheaper shops work in your area? It's possible all around London for example, you don't have to shop in expensive shops if you don't want to.

 

Food is more expensive is some regions of the US than in others. Even at the cheapest food stores in both cities, food will be more expensive in one city than in another.

[Emilia]

Food is more expensive is some regions of the US than in others. Even at the cheapest food stores in both cities, food will be more expensive in one city than in another.

 

Is that the case for somewhere like Walmart too which would be the same supermarket for the country with lots of stores? ie not depending on local produce/distance

[xxoo]

Is that the case for somewhere like Walmart too which would be the same supermarket for the country with lots of stores? ie not depending on local produce/distance

 

Yes, even at Walmart, the price varies by region. Some things, like milk, are regulated by the state.

[Emilia]

Some things, like milk, are regulated by the state.

 

Interesting. What else? I don't mean a full list but would it be something like 'essential items'?

[xxoo]

Interesting. What else? I don't mean a full list but would it be something like 'essential items'?

 

All sorts of things vary. I'm not sure if this will work, but here is a comparison of grocery prices for Boston, MA and Atlanta, GA (Prices 58% higher in Boston than Atlanta overall, although some items are cheaper in Boston than Atlanta).

[hotgurl]

Even starbucks changes thier prices based on the region they are in.

 

I live in a small town (which is probably part of the problem) no online food services. I did check out Walmart. their food is terrible.

[Emilia]

their food is terrible.

 

They don't sell just ordinary fresh produce like potatoes, carrots, leak, corn, onions, garlick, herbs, mushrooms, eggs?