America has a problem. How much bigger will we get?

[Emilia]

Plus the exercise from gardening! I bet people were in fantastic shape in the UK during the war - with rationing, every spare inch of the garden having to be used productively etc.

 

More people worked in physical jobs and very few had cars. The local dog walkers in the park nearby use these http://www.speedwellstar.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/18/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/P/e/Pet-Ball-Thrower.jpg so they don't even have to bend down to pick up the ball for the dog. There is one lady that just throws the ball for her dogs from her front door.

[Taramere]

This is how I grew up. On my father's and mother's side the families had gardens, on my stepfather's side they had a large alotment and a vineyard. Have some very romantic memories from childhood.

 

What could be better than owning your own vineyard? I think it's time to stop reading LS for a while, and re-read a Year in Provence. Then ask my dad if I can have a little plot of his garden. Much better for the soul than the internet is.

re the ball throwers - they are pretty good. It's amazing how much further you can throw the ball with them. I do a sort of service practice with them.

[Emilia]

What could be better than owning your own vineyard? I think it's time to stop reading LS for a while, and re-read a Year in Provence. Then ask my dad if I can have a little plot of his garden. Much better for the soul than the internet is.

 

If I lived in a sunnier country I'd consider it. Agricultural land is very cheap on the continent I think, especially for something small. In the UK though.. not sure what quality you would get without expertise

[EasyHeart]

I grew up in a family that had produce and I hated weeding! I'd be one of those with the mature trees and plants in the garden. I remember still the hot sun beating down on my back in the middle of the summer bending down pulling out the bloody weed. Traumatised for life

This was my experience as well. My dad had a huge vegetable garden and fruit trees all over, but my main memory as a child is being forced to work in the garden instead of playing. I live in the city and don't have anywhere to grow veggies, but I think my early trauma makes me instinctively annoyed when I hear about people gardening. Plus, where I live I can walk to three Farmer's Markets during the summer, so it's not worth my time. I can buy all the fresh veggies I can carry home for $10.

 

I think a lot of the problem in the US (and probably the UK) is cultural. Taste is largely trained; you can teach yourself to like whatever you eat. If you're raised in a family where "cooking" is zapping something in the microwave, then you'll do the same when you get out on your own. I was totally unprepared to live on my own, because my mom would always chase me out of the kitchen. "Boys don't cook." Most of my 20s was eating fast food or frozen entrees. I've learned a lot since then, but if you're not motivated or interested in health/nutrition/cooking, there's no incentive to learn because convenience food is so cheap and plentiful.

 

Back in the 1880s there was a similar problem. It spawned the Settlement House Movement, where women from rich family moved into the urban core and taught immigrant women the basics of cooking, cleaning, sewing, etc. That led to the creation of Home Economics in the public school system, where students were supposed to learn the basics of nutrition and cooking before leaving high school. Is that still around? When I was in school (this was the 70s), I got a 10 week course in Home Ec, where basically I learned how to use Bisquick. (And that was pretty radical back then; only a few years earlier, boys were forbidden from taking any Home Ec classes). For you younger folks: Do the schools still do anything like this? If so, how bad is it?

 

So basically, I guess what I'm saying is that, like with so many things, the schools should be teaching this sort of thing, but they do a really ****ty, ****ty job of it. But, I suppose if they did teach this sort of thing in the school they'd have to teach the official government nutrition info, which I think is a big cause of the obesity problem.

 

Anyone else notice that the obesity epidemic pretty much starts as soon as the feds decided to dictate nutritional information? A low fat diet ---> Really fat people.

[fortyninethousand322]

Maybe it's the fructose. Or maybe it's because fat people are drinking a six pack of soda with fructose per day. Drink iced tea like my parents did. We were too poor to buy soda. Soda was for birthday parties. So was cake. We never had it the rest of the year.

 

People eat too much.

 

Yeah author of the article was saying that if got all of fructose from fruits and vegetables like we did 100 years ago we'd be eating about 15 grams per day. Now, the average person eats 70+ grams per day. Prolonged exposure to elevated levels of fructose cannot be good for you.

[pbjbear]

Agree 100% kaylan.

 

After studying for school in other countries and seeing their portion sizes it finally sunk home. Ive always heard our portions are ridiculous but going to another country where they ate normal portions sealed it in my brain. I can never look at America the same again. No wonder they all think we are pigs.

 

I am at a healthy weight. At a lower end of the range but I am still at a healthy weight and still would be if I lost a few pounds according to my doctor. Luckily, in New York there are more skinny people so I dont get much flack but from my hometown I do. Its gotten to the point where normal healthy people are called too skinny or anorexic because being overweight is so common. I dont have any bones sticking out...how would I be too skinny?

[GorillaTheater]

I grew up in a family that had produce and I hated weeding! I'd be one of those with the mature trees and plants in the garden. I remember still the hot sun beating down on my back in the middle of the summer bending down pulling out the bloody weed. Traumatised for life

 

Really enjoyed reading the back and forth between you and Taramere.

 

I've always gardened, although I go for the "higher value" items like tomatoes and peppers, with some other things like peas and beans that are easy to grow and add nitrogen to the soil. I've been more-or-less organic about it with respect to fertilizer and pesticides, but lately have been alot more intentional about it. Originally, I think it was a way to connect to my deceased grandfather, whose idea of a "vegatable garden" was a three acre plot. Most of what I grow goes into home-made salsa and canned jalopenos.

 

And weeds? About three inches of compost mulch, baby.

[Emilia]

Really enjoyed reading the back and forth between you and Taramere.

 

Tara would save us trouble if she posted on the OTT then I could chat with her there instead

 

I've always gardened, although I go for the "higher value" items like tomatoes and peppers, with some other things like peas and beans that are easy to grow and add nitrogen to the soil. I've been more-or-less organic about it with respect to fertilizer and pesticides, but lately have been alot more intentional about it. Originally, I think it was a way to connect to my deceased grandfather, whose idea of a "vegatable garden" was a three acre plot. Most of what I grow goes into home-made salsa and canned jalopenos.

 

And weeds? About three inches of compost mulch, baby.

 

That sounds good. My grandparents were very old school and had no real clue about gardening though. the weeds were terrible, we needed one of these http://www.jad.cz/temp/product_zoom_6510.jpg

 

My mum is much smarter, we don't get weeds much anymore, probably using your idea. 3 acres though? that's a hobby farm

[LurkerXX]

I actually think that the ENTIRE culture has a lot more to do with this than people think. I mean really...where do all these other associations that come with weight come from? I have had quite a few larger employers that were among some of the hardest working, most disciplined people I know. What separated them into that category was certainly not their weight.

 

And the noticing of it being a class issue..yeah definitely. And parent teaching kids, teaching kids....the crack epidemic drove the urban poor indoors, and indoors they stayed. But does anyone see the patronizing edge that people pick up will hurt more than help? Take it from someone who came from poor/working class background, educated in biological and physical sciences, self educated in history, literature and art. Someone who has to work out a lot as part of their job in wildlife. Someone who grew up with gardens, cooking, canning way before it was hipster cool. And someone with a bigger figure on a 5'1" frame who is constantly underestimated.

[Taramere]

Take it from someone who came from poor/working class background, educated in biological and physical sciences, self educated in history, literature and art. Someone who has to work out a lot as part of their job in wildlife. Someone who grew up with gardens, cooking, canning way before it was hipster cool. And someone with a bigger figure on a 5'1" frame who is constantly underestimated.

 

You are the truth and the light. I shall herewith throw away my red chilli plant and flagellate myself for such hipster nonsense.

[Emilia]

Take it from someone who came from poor/working class background, educated in biological and physical sciences, self educated in history, literature and art.

 

I'm as working class as they come and disagree with you as much as possible. Unfortunately being poor/working class doesn't mean you can speak for all of us

[EasyHeart]

And the noticing of it being a class issue..yeah definitely. And parent teaching kids, teaching kids....the crack epidemic drove the urban poor indoors, and indoors they stayed. But does anyone see the patronizing edge that people pick up will hurt more than help?

I agree. I don't think shaming or bullying or humiliating people will be successful in solving this problem. People need information and teaching.

 

More than anything else, they need protection from disinformation. A lot of the overweight people I know want to lose weight and try valiantly to do so. But they think that meat is bad for them and eating huge bowls of rice and giant baguettes is "healthy".

[LurkerXX]

Yes...finding ways for these things to have a more universal appeal is always a good thing. There were a lot of things, education-wise, that I was much on my own for. But it was not the "I'm so special" attitude that made the differnce. It was the '"it is as much mine as anyone elses," an inclusive healthy entitlement that everyone can share in. That is why I think practicality has to be top on these slow foods and home/community/rooftop gardening efforts.

[kaylan]

Maybe it's the fructose. Or maybe it's because fat people are drinking a six pack of soda with fructose per day. Drink iced tea like my parents did. We were too poor to buy soda. Soda was for birthday parties. So was cake. We never had it the rest of the year.

 

People eat too much.

But I thought poor people could only afford fatty junk foods?

 

Thanks for saying this, because Ive always told people that eating healthy can be cheap as hell and save your wallet. My favorite junk (snacks, fast food, beer, cakes), are loads more expensive than mere rice, chicken breast, veggies etc. I dread when I have to eat on a budget, because its less satisfying to my taste buds and cravings...but its loads healthier for my body.

Edited March 26, 2013 by kaylan

[FitChick]

The last time I was overweight was many many years ago. I was also low on cash most of the time. 2 whoppers $2 a day from Burger King was what I lived on. I did that for like 3 or 4 months. Every day, I go get 2 whoppers, cut them in half, eat a half and save the rest for later.

Reminds me of Jared, the Subway guy. For those who don't know or remember, he was obese and started eating Subway subs. I think he had a 6" for lunch and another for dinner. He lost all the weight and became a spokesman for the company.

 

Portion control.

 

What do poor people in India, Africa and Mexico eat? They are thin. Eat like they do. Beans and rice, greens. We have the fattest poor people on the planet.

Edited March 27, 2013 by FitChick

[Mme. Chaucer]

The fat poor people probably need some consciousness raising about nutrition, eating habits, exercise, food prep, community gardening opportunities even in urban areas, how to score lots of free or cheap great produce (it's out there), etc.

 

It's not on their radar, in many cases. Hungry? There's a McDonald's!

 

So, I hope that those of you who are nice and fit and so ready to criticize the overweight poor of America are doing all you can to help those people move towards healthier, fitter lives. There are myriad volunteer opportunities in all of the areas I mentioned in my first paragraph, and more.

[Mme. Chaucer]

What do poor people in India, Africa and Mexico eat? They are thin. Eat like they do.

 

By all means! Lots of them are living in starvation! But at least … they are THIN!

[fortyninethousand322]

Genetics play a role here too. People who were pretty much always thin have an easier time staying thin. Not trying to make excuses, me being Mr. Personal Responsibility and all, I'm just saying that it's easy to get fat than it's ever been. Just look at the rate of diet failure...

[Weezy1973]

Overeating is often more about mental health than anything, as is over-drinking, over-gambling, over-drugging, over-shopping, etc. Overeaters Anonymous (the equivalent of Alcoholics Anonymous) is actually quite successful.

 

Eating delicious food makes people happy and can comfort them in the face of many real (and perceived) hardships. And it can become cyclical. For example:

 

A woman feels crappy about her body. Goes shopping to find something flattering, but nothing fits right. Gets even more depressed, but finds comfort in a pint of Hagen Daaz. And then hates herself and her body. So the cycle continues...

 

Asking people to just "buck up" and be healthy is a little simplistic I think.

[FitChick]

People are bored, so they eat. They are angry, they eat. They are anxious, they eat. They are depressed, they eat. These people try to escape from problems by using food in the same way that alcoholics drink, smokers smoke and druggies shoot up. These are unproductive bad habits.

 

They can go for a walk or run for free. They can watch free exercise videos on youtube. They can dance to their favorite music. They can learn to cook.

 

There has never been so much health information so easily accessed by so many. The Biggest Loser was the first show about weight loss but there are so many others now. There are cooking networks, not just shows. Celebrities talk about how they lost weight. Every week there is another story online about someone who lost 100 pounds by eating less and moving more. If people don't care about themselves, it's their choice.

[Emilia]

The fat poor people probably need some consciousness raising about nutrition, eating habits, exercise, food prep, community gardening opportunities even in urban areas, how to score lots of free or cheap great produce (it's out there), etc.

 

It's not on their radar, in many cases. Hungry? There's a McDonald's!

 

So, I hope that those of you who are nice and fit and so ready to criticize the overweight poor of America are doing all you can to help those people move towards healthier, fitter lives. There are myriad volunteer opportunities in all of the areas I mentioned in my first paragraph, and more.

 

The reason why I don't have patience with this is because I grew up in Eastern Europe as some people here know, as I'm 40 I was born under communist rule. We were poor, oppressed, had a wooden lavatory outside and didn't have running water inside until we moved to a council flat when I was about 10.

 

I consider my childhood considerably more disadvantaged than that of the 'poor' in the UK. I didn't grow up with central heating, DVD players, coloured TV, I was a latch-key kid and had to cook for myself, I was skinny as a rake because had no idea how to look after myself properly, my mother was a single mother as our father left us when I was 7 and my sister 4 and she worked so many hours that at one point she ended up in hospital.

 

So, you know, with all the opportunities in the UK my heart doesn't bleed for the lazy and the stupid. It just doesn't.

[sweetjasmine]

The fat poor people probably need some consciousness raising about nutrition, eating habits, exercise, food prep, community gardening opportunities even in urban areas, how to score lots of free or cheap great produce (it's out there), etc.

 

It's not on their radar, in many cases. Hungry? There's a McDonald's!

 

I once lived near a food oasis neighborhood where there were a lot of fast food/pizza/convenience stores and literally no grocery store. People would have to go well out of their way to get groceries, and since they didn't have much time to do that, when they went, they had to stock up on things that wouldn't spoil quickly if left uneaten.

 

Yes, it's cheap to get fresh produce. Or, actually, in the case of this particular supermarket right at the edge of that neighborhood, sort-of-fresh produce bought out from supermarkets getting rid of old inventory. But it's a waste of money if you find yourself throwing half of it away because you don't get a chance to eat it. Now, mac-and-cheese in a box? That'll still be around in 1000 years, so stock up, and you'll have some when you need it.

 

By all means! Lots of them are living in starvation! But at least … they are THIN!

 

That post and the other one about eating 2 Whoppers per day just underscore the point that it's not about health but about appearance. Yes, you can be thin if all you eat is 2 Whoppers per day, but do that for 5 years and get back to me on what your vitals and bloodwork look like.

 

And, y'know what? Okay, some folks think fat folks are disgusting and lazy and that they're worthless and that they would be wonderful if they looked thin, regardless of what else is going on inside their bodies. Fine. I can accept that. But at least be honest about it and stop pretending you're trying to help people and are concerned about public health.

[Madman81]

America has a problem. How much bigger will we get?

Presumably, bigger and bigger until they're "too big to fail".

[veggirl]

Why is the assumption that poor people are stupid? They aren't, they know rice and beans is as cheap as fast food or even cheaper, people just want what tastes good. Rich people too. The assumption "poor people are too stupid to know what to buy" is really offensive.

 

People are lazy and crave the salt and preservatives pumped into s.hitty food. I can barely stand grocery shopping at regular stores, peoples carts make me want to puke.

[soccerrprp]

Why is the assumption that poor people are stupid? They aren't, they know rice and beans is as cheap as fast food or even cheaper, people just want what tastes good. Rich people too. The assumption "poor people are too stupid to know what to buy" is really offensive.

 

People are lazy and crave the salt and preservatives pumped into s.hitty food. I can barely stand grocery shopping at regular stores, peoples carts make me want to puke.

 

Wow, a few comments I would love to make.

 

1. Poor people are not unaware of the difference between healthier diet and poor diet. "Poor" people buy what is most accessible and within their budget.

 

Given the FACT that the middle class and upper class are also open to eating poorly, it really has less to do with knowledge than other society norms/culture.

 

2. What do YOU mean by "regular" stores? Don't mean to offend, but if your idea is anywhere in the ballpark of thinking that going to Whole Food, etc. equates to healthy, well, you'd be surprised. Just asking... I see overweight people shopping in those types of places too.

 

Alas, economics and access plays a huge part.

 

I can't wait until I get into the meat of my research this summer. It's going to be fascinating.