Men talking about women

[Mme. Chaucer]

So there are people (here or IRL) who don't like being referred to as hot or attractive behind their back?

 

I think that if we were going to actually look and talk about this from an objective (uh-oh, isn't that word related to "objectify"?) and intellectual standpoint rather than an emotion-based one, we would have to discuss the ramifications of people discussing their impressions of other people regardless of whether the comments were positive or negative.

 

"She's hot."

 

"I'd tap that."

 

"What a lard ass."

 

"White leggings are horrible, what is she thinking?"

 

All in the same boat.

[utterer of lies]

Lost how? "Hey we men should get to be superficial, and make comments on it! Objectifying is male sexuality!" "We men aren't superficial, how could you claim such a thing?"

 

Ah well. Guess the best thing about this thread is I can always link it every time some poster tries the "Men aren't superficial" argument.

 

I'm allowed to like a women's personality but not her body? What?

[Emilia]

discussing their impressions of other people regardless of whether the comments were positive or negative.

 

"She's hot."

 

"I'd tap that."

 

"What a lard ass."

 

"White leggings are horrible, what is she thinking?"

 

All in the same boat.

 

I don't think that's the case. As in posts further down the thread ThaWholigan and myself agreed that complimenting people we find attractive/hot/turn on is very different from disecting someone you don't find attractive.

[verhrzn]

I'm allowed to like a women's personality but not her body? What?

 

Personality you can change (as everyone is always telling me to do.) Body, you cannot, except through expensive and potentially dangerous surgery.

[guildenstern]

If there are plenty, then how could you be lucky that you found them?

 

Every time I start thinking better of men, I come back to this forum and see just how superficial and judgmental men really are. I suppose I'm lucky no man wants a relationship with me, so I don't have to deal with this junk.

 

I had this thought a while back: have you and your boyfriend split, maybe over something about objectifying women? I mean I don't wanna say that's the only reason youd have to be upset or have strong emotions about it (have UK ppl never heard of rape culture?) but I wondered if it might be related.

[utterer of lies]

"Hey we men should get to be superficial, and make comments on it! Objectifying is male sexuality!" "We men aren't superficial, how could you claim such a thing?"

 

 

On a side note, I find it funny how you accuse every male of superficiality but refuse to date the men who are actually interested in you because of how they look.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I don't think that's the case. As in posts further down the thread ThaWholigan and myself agreed that complimenting people we find attractive/hot/turn on is very different from disecting someone you don't find attractive.

 

I know … but for the purposes of this discussion, shouldn't ALL commentary based upon what we think about a person because we looked at them be judged the same? It can't be filtered through a person's (specifically v's) emotional filter, that is completely unreliable and subjective.

[Emilia]

Personality you can change (as everyone is always telling me to do.) Body, you cannot, except through expensive and potentially dangerous surgery.

 

Then this is about being at peace with the fact that not everyone will like your body the same way not everyone will like your personality

[utterer of lies]

Personality you can change (as everyone is always telling me to do.) Body, you cannot, except through expensive and potentially dangerous surgery.

 

You didn't answer the question. In your eyes, I'm not allowed to like a women's body? Really?

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm allowed to like a women's personality but not her body? What?

 

I KNOW. And what about, "What enchanting eyes and a sweet face she has. I'd love to meet her" vs. "Look at that rack! I'd love to bang her!"

[Emilia]

I know … but for the purposes of this discussion, shouldn't ALL commentary based upon what we think about a person because we looked at them be judged the same? It can't be filtered through a person's (specifically v's) emotional filter, that is completely unreliable and subjective.

 

I suppose I would never agree with dismissing all comments. The positive ones are actually good for the soul

[Els]

I think complimenting is different from dissecting, really. Dissecting is, well, what happens when you post a picture of a woman, any woman, onto a internet site with an extremely high population of teenage and romantically unsuccessful males - quite unsavoury, and turns me off a guy completely when I hear him do it. Complimenting is mostly good, I think, and if any woman is offended by that, just don't do it to her.

 

On a side note, I find it funny how you accuse every male of superficiality but refuse to date the men who are actually interested in you because of how they look.

 

I don't think V put her points across in the best manner at all here, but this is just a fallacy. She's never done what you're accusing her of, you probably have the wrong poster.

[ThaWholigan]

I KNOW. And what about, "What enchanting eyes and a sweet face she has. I'd love to meet her" vs. "Look at that rack! I'd love to bang her!"

Some guys probably say the first part, and think the second .

[utterer of lies]

I KNOW. And what about, "What enchanting eyes and a sweet face she has. I'd love to meet her" vs. "Look at that rack! I'd love to bang her!"

 

That's another matter, namely, how a person expresses his interest, and only indirectly related to my question.

[oaks]

I suppose I'm lucky no man wants a relationship with me, so I don't have to deal with this junk.

 

... says the woman who is in a relationship. Or did that change? I'm sorry it didn't work out.

[utterer of lies]

She's never done what you're accusing her of, you probably have the wrong poster.

 

She mentioned something like this in a PM. I won't post that here, but:

 

V - please contradict me here if you feel that I misrepresented that message.

[utterer of lies]

Some guys probably say the first part, and think the second .

 

Depending on context and the circle they are in, the other way around is also perfectly possible

[Emilia]

Depending on context and the circle they are in, the other way around is also perfectly possible

 

this is also true

[oaks]

Just to go all the way back to the first post for a moment.

 

Do we stop talking about or acknowledging a woman's body just to appease?

 

 

Suppose the woman is peacocking (or, since we're unlikely to ask her to confirm it, a reasonable person would assume, on the balance of probabilities, that she was) would that make a difference?

[ThaWholigan]

Just to go all the way back to the first post for a moment.

 

 

 

 

Suppose the woman is peacocking (or, since we're unlikely to ask her to confirm it, a reasonable person would assume, on the balance of probabilities, that she was) would that make a difference?

Who knows?

 

That same woman peacocking could quite easily turn around and scold us for "objectifying" her.

 

/sarcasm

 

If one is a baseline competent wordsmith, you should get a positive response from such a woman. I find that the women who like their bodies and like men commenting on it don't mind the sexualized comments about them, as I have found out very recently.

[veggirl]

I do wonder how genuine that is. I think they feel they are not taken seriously but I don't think they mind being thought of as attractive. I doubt very much they would want to be ugly.

 

I would rather be attractive than ugly, yes.

 

They don't want strangers commenting on their attractiveness but they like being attractive? Because I have read both posters' proud description of themselves as attractive before, that's how I know that they are pretty.

 

Believe what you like. Most people on this planet like being thought of as attractive.

 

I don't have an issue with someone thinking I am attractive, or the opposite if they think I am ugly. I have an issue with how some men express themselves about it, and how they so freely feel the right to do in obnoxious and offensive ways. Should men stop complimenting women they find attractive? no, but a) there's a time and a place [when I am working is inappropriate IMO] and b) there is a proper way to do it "you look nice" is fine, "damn you are hot" from a stranger at the gas station is creepy. It's not too difficult.

[verhrzn]

On a side note, I find it funny how you accuse every male of superficiality but refuse to date the men who are actually interested in you because of how they look.

 

I do? Since when? What men are these? I think you're confusing me with someone else...

[Janesays]

I don't have an issue with someone thinking I am attractive, or the opposite if they think I am ugly. I have an issue with how some men express themselves about it, and how they so freely feel the right to do in obnoxious and offensive ways. Should men stop complimenting women they find attractive? no, but a) there's a time and a place [when I am working is inappropriate IMO] and b) there is a proper way to do it "you look nice" is fine, "damn you are hot" from a stranger at the gas station is creepy. It's not too difficult.

 

Exactly.

 

Further, after reading the OP, I assumed that honest, real answers were wanted from women. The belittling, dismissive, sarcastic tones I'm reading from the men in this thread are exactly why I usually refrain from participating in discussions like this.

 

The quotes over the word "objectifying" and the tendency to be purposely personally insulting indicates, to me, that true understanding here was never the goal or intent. Instead, I think some just wanted past behavior validated with an, "awww shucks! You boys will be boys!"

 

I apologize for taking this seriously. As I said before, I will defend anyone's right to say whatever they want to whoever they want. But I will also urge you to consider that should you fail to act in a respectful and mature fashion, don't be surprised if I judge you as childish, emotionally stunted, and not very bright. *shrugs

Edited September 24, 2012 by Janesays

[Woggle]

Rape has nothing to do with sexual attraction. It is an act of violence against a woman and in some cases a man. Men rape because they want to control a woman and hurt her and one of the most heinous ways to hurt a woman is rape.

 

The mind of a rapist and the mind of a man who is just turned on by an attractive woman are two very different things.

[ThaWholigan]

Exactly.

 

Further, after reading the OP, I assumed that honest, real answers were wanted from women. The belittling, dismissive, sarcastic tones I'm reading from the men in this thread are exactly why I usually refrain from participating in discussions like this.

 

They were wanted. I got them. I am not sure where this idea that everything the women in this thread has said has been dismissed or belittled, I'm struggling to be honest.

 

The quotes over the word "objectifying" and the tendency to be purposely personally insulting indicates, to me, that true understanding here was never the goal or intent. Instead, I think some just wanted past behavior validated with an, "awww shucks! You boys will be boys!"

Not really. The quotes over the word "objectifying" were due to my not understanding whether the admiration of a woman's body was really actually objectifying them. I admit that I take offense to the idea that just because I like women's bodies means that I objectify women - hence I used quotes to reflect the ambiguity that I saw in the use of the word.

 

My past behavior has been nothing short of exemplary in my opinion, and as such I don't really need validation for it.

 

I apologize for taking this seriously. As I said before, I will defend anyone's right to say whatever they want to whoever they want. But I will also urge you to consider that should you fail to act in a respectful and mature fashion, don't be surprised if I judge you as childish, emotionally stunted, and not very bright. *shrugs

And I wouldn't expect anything less. I just wanted to know where the line between respectful and inappropriate really lied in terms of talking about women's bodies - such as on the internet - so that I wouldn't be crossing any of them.

 

 

Again, I think everyone has taken this quite seriously, enough that I don't feel anyone's argument (whether hard fought or not) was belittled. I'm sorry if anyone feels that way.