Men talking about women

[ThaWholigan]

I really don't get how asking men to stop making comments about women's bodies unless they have an idea their sexual advances are wanting, is "boxing in" male sexuality.

 

Neither do I, male sexuality encompasses more than just talking about a woman's body.

 

Usually when men have an "idea their sexual advances are wanting" - they are usually wrong . Hence, OFFENSE! OBJECTIFICATION! And all other such things. It does bring about a feeling of shame, even if that's not what you want and even if offense was never intended.

 

I think the argument for control is a semantics problem - it's knowing when to moderate and when to be expressive.

[verhrzn]

A colleague of mine wanted to b**ch about people in the office and I declined because I don't like it, he made the point that they probably do the same about us behind our back but I said that didn't matter.

 

However! I have been known to compliment his body behind his back (he is a boxer and an ultramarathon runner so it's pretty good) and I very much doubt he would be offended. Especially as he would sleep with me at a drop of a hat if I wanted to.

 

Not everyone cares about being objectified. I wouldn't go and say bad stuff about a guy's height or say he had a small c**k or anything like that. But when I think one is hot I will say so. 99% would not be offended I can guarantee that.

 

So because the majority like it, the minority should just stuff it? Again why does your right to say whatever you want override someone else's feelings?

[Emilia]

So because the majority like it, the minority should just stuff it? Again why does your right to say whatever you want override someone else's feelings?

 

Are you seriously suggesting that anyone objects to being thought of as hot?

[verhrzn]

Are you seriously suggesting that anyone objects to being thought of as hot?

 

Veggirl did. Janesays did. If you start associating your physical attractiveness with people treating you in a derogatory or uncomplimentary way...

 

My friend once said she wished she was ugly, because then she could have avoided being assaulted. What freaking twisted is that?

[Emilia]

Veggirl did. Janesays did. If you start associating your physical attractiveness with people treating you in a derogatory or uncomplimentary way...

 

I do wonder how genuine that is. I think they feel they are not taken seriously but I don't think they mind being thought of as attractive. I doubt very much they would want to be ugly.

 

My friend once said she wished she was ugly, because then she could have avoided being assaulted. What freaking twisted is that?

 

I'm sorry your friend got assaulted but 'unattractive' people get raped too. A lot of the time it's what in the rapist's mind, not what you see objectively as a person. Pedophilia, old ladies getting assaulted, etc

[joystickd]

Veggirl did. Janesays did. If you start associating your physical attractiveness with people treating you in a derogatory or uncomplimentary way...

 

My friend once said she wished she was ugly, because then she could have avoided being assaulted. What freaking twisted is that?

assault is a extreme thing. I am still wondering why you transitioned this conversation to sexual violence.

[verhrzn]

I do wonder how genuine that is. I think they feel they are not taken seriously but I don't think they mind being thought of as attractive. I doubt very much they would want to be ugly.

 

Well you just go ahead and tell them what they think. They directly said they don't want strangers commenting on their attractiveness. But, hey, you know more about their brains than they do, I'm sure.

[verhrzn]

assault is a extreme thing. I am still wondering why you transitioned this conversation to sexual violence.

 

I already explained why. A lot. Go back and read.

[Emilia]

Well you just go ahead and tell them what they think. They directly said they don't want strangers commenting on their attractiveness. But, hey, you know more about their brains than they do, I'm sure.

 

They don't want strangers commenting on their attractiveness but they like being attractive? Because I have read both posters' proud description of themselves as attractive before, that's how I know that they are pretty.

 

Believe what you like. Most people on this planet like being thought of as attractive.

[joystickd]

Yes, I'm just going to have to accept that my friend gets sexually assaulted because a guy thought he "deserved" to have sex, that women's bodies end up on Reddit forums because they are out in public being all "female" and so deserve to have their pictures taken, that I deserve to have comments made about my fat and disgusting body because I am sitting on a bus riding to the library. Gee, whyever would I want to change all that? Men are just so gosh darn charming in those scenarios.

I am talking about people talking. Sexual assault and posting pics is something that another thread needs to be created for. You see this issue so black and white when in reality it's not. You bought in and invested in so much of this negativity that is has in a sense warped your view of men and sexuality to the point you associate the man that says nice rack to the guy that raped someone in an alley. There is still so much you don't understand when it comes to issues like that. I think some of the women on here provided links with that.

[ThaWholigan]

I do wonder how genuine that is. I think they feel they are not taken seriously but I don't think they mind being thought of as attractive. I doubt very much they would want to be ugly.

 

I don't think it's not being thought of as attractive, but rather they don't really appreciate the behavior of a sizable portion of men in their experiences, which is unfortunate.

 

I'm sorry your friend got assaulted but 'unattractive' people get raped too. A lot of the time it's what in the rapist's mind, not what you see objectively as a person. Pedophilia, old ladies getting assaulted, etc

 

This is true. I can't pretend to know what's in the mind of a rapist because I'm not one and could never be one - but I suspect (or speculate, whichever word is more appropriate) the attractiveness of the woman or her body is the last thing on his mind.

[verhrzn]

I am talking about people talking. Sexual assault and posting pics is something that another thread needs to be created for. You see this issue so black and white when in reality it's not. You bought in and invested in so much of this negativity that is has in a sense warped your view of men and sexuality to the point you associate the man that says nice rack to the guy that raped someone in an alley. There is still so much you don't understand when it comes to issues like that. I think some of the women on here provided links with that.

 

Gee, whyever would I not have a high opinion of men who insist it is their right to comment on a stranger's body, regardless of how that stranger feels, and make derogatory comments about someone's "rack"? Whyever would I feel negative after men on this site insist they are not superficial, and then turn around and say over and over that their entire sexuality is based on objectifying women? Whyever would I get upset at the idea that apparently any kind of request for men to control themselves is "boxing" and "shaming" male sexuality?

[Emilia]

I don't think it's not being thought of as attractive, but rather they don't really appreciate the behavior of a sizable portion of men in their experiences, which is unfortunate.

 

I just want to clarify that all along in this thread I have been very clearly discussing comments made about someone when they might not even know it rather than being confronted about it (ie no shouting from across the street, etc).

 

This is because I was commenting specifically on the notion that objectifying women leads to rape.

[ThaWholigan]

I just want to clarify that all along in this thread I have been very clearly discussing comments made about someone when they might not even know it rather than being confronted about it (ie no shouting from across the street, etc).

 

This is because I was commenting specifically on the notion that objectifying women leads to rape.

Agree, this was part of my reasoning for making this thread.

[Emilia]

Agree, this was part of my reasoning for making this thread.

 

So there are people (here or IRL) who don't like being referred to as hot or attractive behind their back?

[Mme. Chaucer]

I doubt there are statistics, but I bet that women that men perceive as "hot" don't get raped any more frequently than ugly women and grannies do.

 

Unless streetwalkers are generally seen as "hot," because I think they comprise the largest demographic of rape victims.

 

Streetwalkers … promoting themselves as nothing more than bodies, advertising themselves as things for sale. Encouraging the perception of women as such, and probably offending the "feelings" of many people who see them. Do I think that it's good that there are streetwalkers; that lots of women feel like this is what they are worth and that they subject themselves to terrible dangers AND help to perpetrate negative ideas about sexuality?

 

NO.

 

Do I think that because of how I FEEL about it and the truly objective negative aspects of their lives, that what they do should be prohibited?

 

NO.

[ThaWholigan]

So there are people (here or IRL) who don't like being referred to as hot or attractive behind their back?

I don't know if you read the exchange a few pages back, but the reason I started this thread in particular was because of an overreaction by one female poster to a male poster who referred to a woman he was dating as "bigger than him, but was pretty and had a nice rack". He was subsequently chastised, and accused of being a porn abuser.

 

Which made me think if an innocuous post like that warrants the ire of the female posters here, then is it really offensive to describe a woman's body in general, but specifically on the internet? Especially when it wasn't meant to be vulgar, crude or offensive? Me personally - I am always flattered when I hear women refer to me as hot or attractive, and the idea that women may think that is something I like. But what does that matter, I'm a man .

[utterer of lies]

Whyever would I feel negative after men on this site insist they are not superficial, and then turn around and say over and over that their entire sexuality is based on objectifying women?

 

V you are again totally lost. It saddens me to see that you are still stuck at the same place.

[Emilia]

I don't know if you read the exchange a few pages back, but the reason I started this thread in particular was because of an overreaction by one female poster to a male poster who referred to a woman he was dating as "bigger than him, but was pretty and had a nice rack". He was subsequently chastised, and accused of being a porn abuser.

 

Which made me think if an innocuous post like that warrants the ire of the female posters here, then is it really offensive to describe a woman's body in general, but specifically on the internet? Especially when it wasn't meant to be vulgar, crude or offensive? Me personally - I am always flattered when I hear women refer to me as hot or attractive, and the idea that women may think that is something I like. But what does that matter, I'm a man .

 

Ah! I read that and I didn't think it was a particularly flattering thing to say. Not so much about her breasts but the fact that the poster found her fat and very clearly implied so.

 

I suppose I wouldn't go into great detail about someone I don't fancy, certainly not to a degree like that poster. Maybe I'd say he is not my type but wouldn't say 'oh he is fat but I bet his c**k is big enough' or whatever.

 

However, when someone is attractive I'll compliment them and sometimes in greater detail than necessary

 

I think there is a difference between admiring looks and just being judgemental. Maybe that's what some object to (though I still think it's a fact of life and it's best to learn to deal with it)

[verhrzn]

V you are again totally lost. It saddens me to see that you are still stuck at the same place.

 

Lost how? "Hey we men should get to be superficial, and make comments on it! Objectifying is male sexuality!" "We men aren't superficial, how could you claim such a thing?"

 

Ah well. Guess the best thing about this thread is I can always link it every time some poster tries the "Men aren't superficial" argument.

[ThaWholigan]

Ah! I read that and I didn't think it was a particularly flattering thing to say. Not so much about her breasts but the fact that the poster found her fat and very clearly implied so.

 

I suppose I wouldn't go into great detail about someone I don't fancy, certainly not to a degree like that poster. Maybe I'd say he is not my type but wouldn't say 'oh he is fat but I bet his c**k is big enough' or whatever.

 

However, when someone is attractive I'll compliment them and sometimes in greater detail than necessary

 

I think there is a difference between admiring looks and just being judgemental. Maybe that's what some object to (though I still think it's a fact of life and it's best to learn to deal with it)

 

I thought it was lacking in tact and not very flattering. I think he was trying to rationalize out loud the notion of continuing to date her. I think the reaction to the comment was excessive though. I've never really gone into detail about women I'm not attracted to, in fact I will always post flattering things about them that I may find attractive without drawing attention to my own lack of personal attraction to them. But when I do like a girl I can't stop describing them, not just physically either.

[ThaWholigan]

Lost how? "Hey we men should get to be superficial, and make comments on it! Objectifying is male sexuality!" "We men aren't superficial, how could you claim such a thing?"

 

Ah well. Guess the best thing about this thread is I can always link it every time some poster tries the "Men aren't superficial" argument.

 

Is it superficial to like a woman's looks? Is it necessarily at the expense of her other qualities?

 

Are men all attracted to the same kinds of women? Is it superficial when a man likes a big woman?

 

Is it superficial to make a comment about a woman's body in private? Is it superficial to do so on the internet?

 

Are my questions useless? I am but a superficial man who only cares about "racks" after all .

[Emilia]

Lost how? "Hey we men should get to be superficial, and make comments on it! Objectifying is male sexuality!" "We men aren't superficial, how could you claim such a thing?"

 

Ah well. Guess the best thing about this thread is I can always link it every time some poster tries the "Men aren't superficial" argument.

 

There are plenty that aren't. I'm very lucky because over the years I managed to find and date some of them.

[verhrzn]

There are plenty that aren't. I'm very lucky because over the years I managed to find and date some of them.

 

If there are plenty, then how could you be lucky that you found them?

 

Every time I start thinking better of men, I come back to this forum and see just how superficial and judgmental men really are. I suppose I'm lucky no man wants a relationship with me, so I don't have to deal with this junk.

[Emilia]

If there are plenty, then how could you be lucky that you found them?

 

I was being sarcastic, though it's true that the world is full of superficial PEOPLE

 

Every time I start thinking better of men, I come back to this forum and see just how superficial and judgmental men really are. I suppose I'm lucky no man wants a relationship with me, so I don't have to deal with this junk.

 

If you think the LS is like the real world, you probably shouldn't be here because you can't differentiate between the real world and an interpersonal relationships online community with a lot of dysfunctionality.

 

Apart from the bitter, unsuccessful guys (whom you would probably spot in real life too), I tend to find the women more judgemental here to be fair.