Author AllieKat Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Tojaz that is a great analogy! And hes infamous for comparing thigs to cars/trucks. As i start to get deeper into this im starting to realize more and more and one thing i come to is fear. Ive let it run me and thus he is too. I wish i knew the formula for making rebuilding the trust easy and soothing his fear but im afraid all i can do is try to show him and hope its enough. Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 You don't have to show him anything Allie, what else is there to show? You apologized, you tried to explain, you stood when he wouldn't, you rode the storm out. He needs to man up and decide what he wants to do and quit putting you through hell. All you need to show him is that if he keeps it up, eventually that car isn't going to start anymore. TOJAZ 3 Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 It's really not that simple.... Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 It's really not that simple.... Sure it is. Hes afraid to trust her and reengage in a relationship that might fail. So, she needs to re earn his trust, he has said that himself, but he is not willing to put her in a position to be trusted. Until that happens, she remains where she is, holding on by a fingernail hoping something changes. Nothing has, because there has been no reason to, he has said outright that he is comfortable where he is. Make him uncomfortable, give him a motivation to DO what he SAYS he wants to, but doesn't know how. He used this analogy: i feel like im staring at a pile of rubble and i dont know if i should rebuild or just move on. I feel like im waiting on the insurance company to call and tell me what to do. Hes waiting for a guarantee that he won't fail. So he sits staring at the pile rather then taking action. Allie can't give him a guarantee or tell him whats right or wrong, but shes standing over him with an umbrella and a blanket keeping the weather and the cold off of him while he stares. Shes waiting for him to make a decision that he has no motivation to make. TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
Yasuandio Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) It's really not that simple.... No, it is not that simple. But, that is an analogy a troubled "mechanic" can get and apply to this situation, and stop the fence-sitting. [Plus, the analogy pays a real nice compliment to the profession!] Now if he doesn't get that, and get on with it, IMO, there is something else going on here. YAS Edited October 14, 2012 by Yasuandio Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) I pretty sure nothing else is going on at least with another person. Short of that all I can imagine is hubby has fallen out of love, just doesnt want the commitment to marriage or is gay. Seriously I believe my husband when hes saying he has this mental block. Ive seen this with him with his mother too. Only with her he completely has cut her out and to be honest my lies were way worse then what she did. But he just cant seem to let it go and make up with her. He wont even talk or email with her. So he clearly has issue with being hurt. His father on the other hand is a bad dad and is a drunk and husband will talk to him. So i feel like hes got some issues about being hurtby women he needs to deal with. I wasnt aware of this til we were married and saw the relationship end with his mom over what i consider her just acting snotty. I get how ppl think he just needs to get over it but i think its a real issue that isnt just going to go away without help. Hubby said last night he would consider talking to someone but not a religious person or a therapist we have to pay( he feels like they are invested in the money not our problems) That leaves me with finding a free counselor. Hmmm allie is determined!! On a side note hubby slept in bed last night!! Lol i couldnt sleep at all because its been 4 1/2 mths of having bed to myself weird to go back to sharing it. Funny how i thought it was so important for him to be in there yetwhen he came in it wasnt a big deal afterall. Edited October 14, 2012 by AllieKat Link to post Share on other sites
ace5950 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I pretty sure nothing else is going on at least with another person. Short of that all I can imagine is hubby has fallen out of love, just doesnt want the commitment to marriage or is gay. Seriously I believe my husband when hes saying he has this mental block. Ive seen this with him with his mother too. Only with her he completely has cut her out and to be honest my lies were way worse then what she did. But he just cant seem to let it go and make up with her. He wont even talk or email with her. So he clearly has issue with being hurt. His father on the other hand is a bad dad and is a drunk and husband will talk to him. So i feel like hes got some issues about being hurtby women he needs to deal with. I wasnt aware of this til we were married and saw the relationship end with his mom over what i consider her just acting snotty. I get how ppl think he just needs to get over it but i think its a real issue that isnt just going to go away without help. Hubby said last night he would consider talking to someone but not a religious person or a therapist we have to pay( he feels like they are invested in the money not our problems) That leaves me with finding a free counselor. Hmmm allie is determined!! On a side note hubby slept in bed last night!! Lol i couldnt sleep at all because its been 4 1/2 mths of having bed to myself weird to go back to sharing it. Funny how i thought it was so important for him to be in there yetwhen he came in it wasnt a big deal afterall. Allie, I come here every day to read the updates on your story. I am really rooting for your marriage to work out. I have been through a rough 6 months with my ex and I know how it feels to want to do ANYTHING to make the relationship work. Sometimes when I read parts of your story I get angry. It is obvious that your husband really needs some professional help in order to get through this issue, and maybe some past issues as well. It us unfair to you that he will only see a "free therapist" So now what its your job to search and track one down? He knows you will do this because he knows how bad you want the marriage to work. Him thinking that therapists are only out there to take your money seems like a cop out answer to me and is a little ridiculous. I know that may be the case for some but I believe that people in this type of profession choose it because they are compassionate people that really want to help someone get better. To become a therapist it takes years and years of schooling, not a 2 year degree at your local community college. If he really wants to try and make the marriage work, and get better then he should be willing to see who ever you can find that you can afford. Many therapists out there work on a sliding scale and are willing to charge you based on your income. It really sounds like he might just be scared to see someone in the first place and maybe once you get him in somewhere and talking he might be a little more at ease. You both need to start seeing someone now and i personally don't think you should be spending time searching for a free therapist. You need to see someone who you can see on a weekly basis and that is committed to their job and helping you and your husbands marriage work. I really feel for you and your situation. I know what its like to now want to rock the boat so to speak. I also know that you cant just sit around hoping that one day your husband will come around. Its not like he is going to wake up one day and be over all of this. If he is not talking to his own mother anymore after she was acting snotty what does this say about your future with him? you are in a sticky situation and I feel like unless you take charge its just going to continue down its current path. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Like I said, not that simple. There is more to this than just what happened 4 1/2 months ago. While I like the analogy as well, there is more information here than just Allie saying she wanted out of the marriage and then the lie. Something led in about 2 years ago of Allie becoming insecure in the marriage, becoming needy. I believe you stated here Allie that it wasn't always like that. When did he cut his mother out, how long ago was that? I'm glad that he is willing to do the counseling even though finding one free will be challenging. (BTW - I had to laugh at the gay comment, my exH valued his drinking buddies more than his marriage and there was a running joke on LS a while back that we thought my exH was gay. LOL! ) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Yasuandio Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Gee Wiz. Another impossible task for Allie - free marriage therapy, and a therapist that will work out for them. Let's see. I need your husband to install my new performance struts at his shop. I'll bring the parts but I want the labor for free - cause I think mechanic's are in the business of taking people's money. Also, I am assuming Allie choose a husband that has the secialized knowedge, tools, books, certifications and equipment to work on a beemer, correct? Do you see how redicuious that is? That is what he is asking you for: Get a psychological professional that specializes in marriages counciling. Our marital issues should be solved free of charge - because theripist's are in the business of taking people's money. Furthermore, the specialist should have the knowledge, books, diplomas and expertise to deal with husband's probelmatic childhood and parental experiences that may also be influencing his choices. That is the same as not cooperating with marriage counciling - so I would sa, forget it.I have been there and done that myself. In 1988, a doctor suggested it. In 1994, I required it (to it's completion) before I would drop the divorce filing and let him come home. In 2007-08, I suggested he go himself - and deal with whatever problem he had that prevented him from having sex with his wife (for years). The only way he could "cope" with going was if I paid the therapist in advance by mail (otherwise he was hostile about it). He could not stand the idea of paying the therapist. It seemed he did work on some issues on his own, but immediately quit showing up for sheduled/paid for in advance appointments when he returned to the US after dumping me. He didn't care about it. I learned over the years - that the idea to seek the help of a matital therapist has to be owned by both partners, and both have to be fully committed, period. Or it is a waste. Allie, I say, don't bother. I would tell him you are not going to bother also, due to his lack of commitment. Perhaps give him the mechanic analogy but relate to free services on a car, as I did to illustrate. Yas Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 @ Ace thank you for taking the time out of each day to read my story. It still amazes me how so many on here take time to help me and care. The key here is yes hes scared to talk to someone. Thats the bottomline for sure. I see through that. Its not my job to track someone fown thats affordable but i will. It means that much to me. I guess i look at it like this marriage to me isnt 50/50 sometimes imo its 75/25 or 90/10 or etc! Hes not in a good place and isnt helping himself or us and im in a better place and i feel like i can help us or ill try at least. It may be damned in the end but I will know i tried. And that means a lot to me. @trippi he stopped talking to his mom 7 years ago basicslly shortly after we were married because of her behavior at our reception. At first i was mad at her to because she acted like a b**** but after a few months i was over it he is not. That was my first taste of his grudge holding and though it bothered me i felt like he had a sticky past with her and had been through bad stuff with her and i would let it up to him to decide his relationship with her. My insecurity 2 years ago came in i think because i had gained some weight, and my hubby was taking calls 24/7 so it seemed from the football president who was thinner, prettier, and it made me jealous because i felt annoyed when she call him needing him to fix something and he would drop everything to fix it. Hed complain about her being dumb and what not and he was fixing things from home it wasnt like he was going to met her or anything.but i got jealous cause my husband that had dotted on me and adored me was now being needed by others and it annoyed me. It got to the point that when i threatened hubby with first divorce threat i throw out there you like football more than me i wish youd just quit. So at a meeting a week later he did. Then i felt bad becàuse i saw how sad he was giving up his hobby and everyone missed him and the kids missed him so i encouraged him to go back and he did. He then tried to balance things better but it was still him the guy they all called for everything. Link to post Share on other sites
Yasuandio Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 (BTW - I had to laugh at the gay comment, my exH valued his drinking buddies more than his marriage and there was a running joke on LS a while back that we thought my exH was gay. LOL! ) Once we were separated, I took a good look at the cell phone records. In fact, I took many lokks looks at them, then looked away. Eventually, I charted the calls, and the patterned emerged like a tile design. I already knew from the start it was a man's number. The wake up call was when I added the minuites for a random period of seven months. It was just over 20 hours. That was the general average. I did not know this man. He had no business connection - and lived35-40 miles away. I did get up the nerve to call his wife. I told her only the facts that I discovered - the calls had gone on since we owned the cell phones, and the calls ended the day he phoned an attorney. The implication was clear. The man was of the same nationaity as my husband, Greek, and his wife was from the UK. She offered possibly it was business related with the computers at the restaurant - but the computers are handled by a private firm, and overseen very carefully by the franchise - and we had never paid him - I did the books. She told me - and it was good advice, that I just needed to "get on with my life." What I find most interesting is that I never, ever heard any backlash from my contacting this lady. It was my phone bill - and my right to inquire - I don't feel bad about it. I'd let go - and pick it up once again, here and there over the years. He was on the phone first thing in the morning, before 8am on his days off, for a short time. GPS puts him at the very back of a park at that time also. On his late night working, they's be on the phone 30-50 mins. at a time. The man always called him (with the exception of three times - these were noteworthy events during the marriage - interestingly enough). I've tried to let go of it. It really doesn't prove anything - it just shows he was on the phone with "someone." This man could have been loaning his phone to a young lady during this time that worked at the same place. I will never know the truth. But he would have been the LAST person in the world that I would have thought was gay. However - he fits some MO's. He was an extreme homophobic. He was obsessed with looking at himself in the mirror, working out, the gym, etc., he was a prima-donna about shoes and clothes. He had a strange desire to "go antiqueing," and I could never find him in the store, but that doesn't prove anything. At our old house, when I was working, three different older Greek men, that I'd never met, came by over the last year or so we lived there, on his day off. Each time, he ordered me to "get rid of them." One of the men, that had appartently walked over, was not so easy to get rid of. He had teears in his eyes - and I just had to keep asking him to leave, and he kept begging me to get my husband, who was just hiding out in the bedroom watching a football game). I burned the whole chicken dinner dealing with this poor man. It has just been recently that I connected those experiences with my suspicions about these phone records. Anyway, Trippi, Allie - you just never know. And I guess I don't want to know, now. It's a pretty scarry prospect, but one that, these days, cannot be overlooked - if all other explanations start falling thru your fingers like grains of sand. Anyway, a little more about Yas! Y Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The situation itself is far from simple, but the options available are the same regardless. Hubby said last night he would consider talking to someone but not a religious person or a therapist we have to pay( he feels like they are invested in the money not our problems) That leaves me with finding a free counselor. Hmmm allie is determined!! Allie, for the last couple years i have been volunteering every other Saturday at a counseling firm running a sort of marriage/divorce support group. It is free and run completely anonymous. Sort of like LS but in person but with no names etc.(I actually go by Tojaz there as well) It is overseen by a therapist for obvious reasons, but they are for the most part hands off and only present in case things get out of hand. They call it a marriage advocate, but I think thats just something they made up so they would have something to call me. It is very informal and at times very blunt and thats kind of the idea, to have someone who can point out the things that a therapist can't or wouldn't. I'm not sure if this is common, but it may be worth asking around if there is something like that in your area. Like I said there is no fee, no names, and if it isn't for him he would be free to walk out at any time. There are also often free counseling services offered by universities with a psychology program, administered by advanced students but overseen by certified therapists, also a good option that would remove the money from the equation. TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 That would be perfect Tojaz! Hubby doesnt want to talk to anyone we know because he feels like our friends just tell us what we want to hear and again he feels paying someone lots of money to give us their opinion is not what he wants either. Im frankly glad hes just willing to talk to a 3rd impartial party thats a start and way more then hes been willing to do Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Just checking in: The only thing I can really say that is better is the communication is great. He comes to find me in house just to talk when he gets home from work or practice. And its even better than before this whole mess. I dont feel afraid to say things to him. Hes communicating to me his comings and goings w/o being asked. And guess what Allies letting the guy talk instead of butting in! It feels great to have that part back and better. I feel like we are starting from scratch. And though i miss affection and the i loves yous we are at least rebuilding that awesome friendship back. I really believe thats why we were so close because we were friends first before anything. I feel happy and when he talks to me to see him smile and feel comfortable telling me his concerns with work and stuff its super cool!! Still hanging in Allie? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Just wanted to vent... Laying in bed with husband and no cuddling is very hard. I just wonder if this is how rebuilding trust and putting a marriage back together usually works? I know im being impatient and in a month weve come far but its hard! Edited October 17, 2012 by AllieKat Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Just wanted to vent... Laying in bed with husband and no cuddling is very hard. I just wonder if this is how rebuilding trust and putting a marriage back together usually works? No, I dont think it is how it usually works Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Allie - It would be good to really find something for counseling while he is open to doing it. With the new information you have supplied, this goes much deeper than you telling a lie. Your husband needs to learn how to deal with his emotions in a healthy way, just as you have been trying to learn how to do with your impulsiveness and impatience. The pattern continues...yesterday was good...today he's not doing some things you would like for him to do, both of you are walking on eggshells with each other on those days. Marriage Builders has an online radio show as well as online marriage coaching that may help, just put Marriage Builders in your browser and check it out. A lady here that was posting used it and went on to work on her marriage. You need a safe place for you and your husband to talk about the issues in the marriage....here on LS, that probably wouldn't work now as it would be too one-sided. Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 I should clarify! We are still communicating great. That hasnt changed. I just want more and am not getting it. Thats where i was wondering if this is how it normally works. Meaning the things im not seeing to be slow in coming. I do need to look into counseling more havent found anything just yet. He did mention to me a coach came to him and said if he ever wanted to talk just call him. Hubby said he was tempted but didnt want to drag another person from football in our drama. He said he was tempted cause he feels his friends have offered no advice they all just told him "that sucks" and "i dont know what to tell you". He feels like they offered nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Good, so things didn't take a drastic swing in that important area where the two of you have made strides lately (communication). But that doesn't discount that he's not meeting your expectations when it comes to intimacy to make you feel safe. Given the things he's said (feels like he gave you hope, not sure where he is in the marriage, his emotional disconnect) this is to be expected and of course that is going to increase your anxiety and continue the pattern of behaviors both of you have set since these issues came up. I mean to say Allie, from here (this 100 foot view) this is what someone can say they see happening. But that does not mean it's not fixable. I would say that while he is open to discussion about the situation with outside parties, I would suggest that the two of you sit down and peruse the Marriage Builder's website. There is a lot of good information there for couples who do want to work on things in the relationship. I agree with your husband on not wanting to bring in another person from the football team, that seems to create nothing but drama for the two of you. Same thing with bringing family into it, more drama. I think the last thing either of you want to get to is divorce and look back and regret that neither of you worked harder on the marriage and took the easy way out. That site has a lot of very good information, the radio show is free....if you decide to pursue the counseling, there is cost involved, but it costs nothing to set the wheels in motion in learning together. The alternative is to do nothing and get nothing in return. Complacency doesn't save a marriage, making demands does not save a marriage, expecting change but not feeling safe to state the changes needed does not save a marriage.....only working together to develop a better understanding of each other, getting a handle on the issues, getting rid of anxiety and self-destructive behaviors (and he is having those now too)...working on those things does help to save a marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Thx Trippi I think Ill show him the website tomorrow since we will be home alone all evening. I kinda wish I hadnt told him the hugs and kisses got my hopes up because thats when he pulled away with those. It just feels like hes not making the emotional connection and that worries me. Then again if i tell him that it sounds like im complaining or pushing him. I guess i could try to cuddle or be closer but i hate rejection and i dont want to be pushy right now. My family keeps harping on me to leave him but they dont get that in the 4 1/2 months this has been going on the REAL positive change didnt come till a few weeks ago. So it is still new change and i try to tell my sistee its a long road back. I have a hard time with this fact too, i just want everything right today and thats just not possible. For the most part im letting him do what he wants as in if he doesnt text me or come to bed when i do i say nothing.normally i would be mad. He respectfully though is telling me where he goes and etc so i dont stress or worry. Hes spending every free minute at home now too. On another not ( sorry ahead of time to the male readers) i have an app on my phone to track my cycle and etc and its pretty right on. So last night he asked if i had gotten my period. I guess though we were safe he was concerned and i said yeah and handed him my phone so he could see when. Initally he said thats ok you dont need to show me. Then he said in a sweeter instant change way if i would feel better by showing him hed gladly look. It did make me feel better because in my eyes it was to back up what i was telling him. Small start for trust but its something Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Initally he said thats ok you dont need to show me. Then he said in a sweeter instant change way if i would feel better by showing him hed gladly look. It did make me feel better because in my eyes it was to back up what i was telling him. Small start for trust but its something I don't think thats so small Allie. He took your word on trust alone and only looked when you asked him to. While the situation might be minor, I think that is a good step and i think by what he said he wanted you to know that. TOJAZ 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Somedays you wonder if your coming along or not. Last evening hubby was discussing insurance with me and we were trying to decide what plan we wanted. He went through every detail and even pointed out one that therapy/counseling was only a $10 copay. ?Wouldnt that be great! With him now sleeping back in bed with me im want so bad to cuddle and stuff should i just go for it and try or let it develop naturally. I just dont want to push for anything and he seems go be very slow in his "coming around" if he is coming around. Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Found a counseling group sorta like what tojaz suggested but they are full right now and put me on the list in the event they start another or have space. The lady that runs it gave me another possibilty for our county so I put a call in and left a message. I dunno about my situation here last evening not a great evening we didnt look at marriage builders. We talked for a few then hubby fell asleep and that was the end of our night. In his defense with working 10-12 hour days once he stops moving around and sits down he is usually out! Its the reason we dont ever do movies during the week; hed just fall asleep. He is still fighting a nasty cold too and told me when he came home his belly wasnt feeling good. Needless to say when I went to bad he was passed out on couch so he didnt sleep in bed with me. Before i would of woke him up to come to bed but because of our current situation i thought it was just best to let him be. Somedays i just feel like this is my new marriage and i can either take it or leave it. Im still hopeful and will be till there are divorce papers but i think ive gotta give myself a timeline because at the end of the day its not fair to wait and hope hell get over his hurt Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Perhaps it would be best to get into the counseling and then both of you determine what that timeline will be with the counselor. Don't start the pattern again Allie, don't be the one to push it over the edge because he is not doing what YOU want him to do. The only control you have right now is over yourself. I have to ask you something because you mention your family harping on you to end it.....do you typically have these negative thoughts after conversations with them or your sister? Sometimes you have to look at what makes you lose faith (external influence) or is it really what your husband is or is not doing? Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Yes everytime I talk to them or friends or whoever that already knows they "infect" me so to speak. I guess thats blaming but i let them "infect" me. Time to time i sit here and start thinking and i "infect" myself with my negativity. A common trait in my family. I never sat around worrying about every little detail before when times were good though, however with all the uncertainity now i'd say 80% of my thought about our relationship are me focusing on the things hes NOT doing. To the point were i obsess. So if im talking to family and they harp on me that just makes it worse. Everyone in my family says if he loved u hed get over it. And if he loved you hed kiss u, hug u, put his ring on, etc etc..! I feel like im dumb somedays. The website truthaboutdeception is good though it states rebuilding trust, if possible is very hard and takes take. I believe that but i start to doubt my husband because of what hes not doing Link to post Share on other sites
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