Forgiveness

[AllieKat]

i asked you to listen.

 

No`one on here is judging you.

 

Your `hope`...should be not from sex, or talking, or looks or laughter.

In `his defense`??

 

`he`s trying to get sex`??

 

No s**t????

 

 

Course he`s trying to get sex. He`s a male. That`s what we do, That`s what a thousand or so years of `evolution` has done to us males.

 

it`s what we do.

 

So anyway, he`s being `mr nice guy` again.

 

Allie...is the marriage fixed?

 

Do YOU feel any better?

 

I listened but i respectfull disagree! I really am starting to feel anger and maybe even a little disrespect shot my way. It stinks but I get it! I realize for those not living it how its easy to place hubby in a category with all men! All men arent just after sex. Im well aware of what Im doing here and Im making my own choices and decisions for me. Not for him or anyone else. If it blows up in my face then thats a lesson I learn and will accept 100%!

 

Our marriage is not fixed and like I said before Im well aware sex wont fix it. But its a choice I made to engage in.

[AllieKat]

No Allie, but I think it will hurt you in the long run even if you aren't getting your hopes up (which you are, I'm not naive either)

 

What he has right now is his status quo plus all the benefits of a loving and faithful wife, but none of the responsibility that comes with it. He has what he was looking for, the ability to play house as he sees fit, but also has an escape route he can slip out of whenever he likes, and he can do so free of guilt because he told you flat out that was what he was doing.

 

I can understand craving the attention and the intimacy, but your going to fall a lot harder if he decides to shut it off again.

 

TOJAZ

 

I understand what your saying. Its kinda like why buy the cow if you get the milk for free. Only he bought the cow. I had planned tonight on a no sex night to see his response and how he acts! He asked me to go on a "date" tomorrow night so we shall see how this plays out. Make no mistake Im not 100% convinced he has any real intention on working on marriage but i do think hes NOT using me for sex.

[tojaz]

I understand what your saying. Its kinda like why buy the cow if you get the milk for free. Only he bought the cow. I had planned tonight on a no sex night to see his response and how he acts! He asked me to go on a "date" tomorrow night so we shall see how this plays out. Make no mistake Im not 100% convinced he has any real intention on working on marriage but i do think hes NOT using me for sex.

 

I never said he was using you for sex Allie, it was your idea. I personally don't care about him at all either. My concern lies with you and the effect this WILL (not may) have on you should he pull away again or to continue the metaphor, what becomes of the cow when he loses his taste for milk?

 

Say what you will Allie, but I don't buy that this was just you releasing sexual tension, your invested in this not just for the sex but for the emotional connection your feeling,but its not really there.

 

Its good that you see that this will not fix your marriage, what I want/need you to see is the very very very real possibility that it will hinder fixing it in the future in exchange for short term comfort.

 

I've seen this story play out before, but i can't say i have ever seen it end well.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Well, seeing how kind everyone has become and critical! I hope you all have a wonderful evening and I wish you all the best!

 

Allie

[tojaz]

AllieKat

 

 

I wish you the best! Its great people have given so much advice to you and kind of sux that all your support is fading on here. I don't agree with them. You know your husband best and as much as these some of these people were rooting for you it seems like certain ones are not happy for you. I am and I agree sex will not fix your martial issues but he's your husband and its your right to what you feel best. I wanted you to know Dave and I start counseling tomorrow and I'm so glad we are working things out. Thank you for standing up for me and being sweet. Good luck hun

 

Coop and Tojaz, you are being pretty rough on AK. I doubt it helps. Tojaz, I wonder from all the posts if you don't have some feelings for Allie, maybe a crush? Just my impression no offense intended, I can certainly understand why. I wonder how often romance blooms on here?

 

I don't see anyone being rough, nor do I see anyone being critical of her actions. I do see a lot of people who have lived through this and are able to look back with an unclouded view and speak from experience. I see some others that have been involved in many stories here on LS who are eager to share their experiences.

 

As for feelings, even though this is just an internet forum, if I get involved with someones thread I do take it very seriously and do have concern for that persons well being. That means I do worry if I feel they may be doing something to damage themselves or others, I do take things a bit personally at times. Thats a characteristic that has served me well most of the time and been my downfall at others, but it has been a trait that is always there and not just exclusive to Allies thread but almost all of them. If i become involved in a thread I am usually there or at least watching until it concludes or my advice is no longer valued.

 

Allie, I would ask yourself though... Since you have been here you have never really felt the need to defend your action in relating to your H even though there was a lot of contradiction and a lot of back tracking. That is until now, which you are defending very stiffly which is not like you. Makes me wonder who it really is that you are trying to convince.

 

Good luck to you Allie, and I truly hope you prove me wrong.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

Yas thank so much! This morning hubby was very sweet he followed me around and kept kissing and hugging me. He iniated all of that. We some good conversation we laughed and joked and were filling each other in on the last few months. He keeps apologizing for the incident with the cops too. I know Im not typical of stories on LS but if we parted ways today I would have more peace then I would last week. Laughing with him and seeing him look at me like he used to is nice and even if it doesnt last Im blessed for seeing it one last time.

 

Just to be clear! I absolutely am not getting hope out of the sex. Its sex! My hope is coming from the talking, the laughter, the hugs, kisses, the looks. The sex does help with the stress and i feel it releases tension. In hubby defense he is the one trying to get sex. I asked him in my room last night.

 

typo...she meant isn't (autocorrect suxs I know.

 

I get everyone is trying to help and i do appreciate it. I just dont want ppl thinking I'm nieve enough to belueve the sex will fix things or that its making me hopeful because im not!

 

What we all tend to forget, it's not OUR story, it's Allie's story. We interject our own experiences into it here and there, but in the end what we hope is for a successful ending. I won't interject my own experience in recon sex as it has no bearing here in my opinion. But I will interject an elephant in the room, does Allie have the capacity to separate sex from a reconciliation? I say yes by understanding some things she has said about her childhood background that she overcame. It's a logical separation actually of head and heart. In her head, she IS hearing him and knows the score, but in her heart the emotional connection never left.....sex is simply, just an act. It's not the act of sex that has her hooked, it's the emotional connection that they had together.

 

I've been on LS for, probably, too long.....but I do laugh when people post about sexual abuse and their wives being sexually repressed. If rape were involved, it would make a woman sexually repressed. Child hood molestation (sorry to bring this up Allie, I really am, but its the logically plays weight here) is inherently different. Emotions do get involved, a lot of them really...you are NOT immediately put into victim mode and you have to learn to deal with those emotions at a young age, a mixture of emotions that you are not ready for...you learn to separate the two.

 

Allie - sorry to talk about you 3rd party. Do you know what you are doing, I think you do and you have an experience that will get you through whatever happens. There is a lot of inner strength in you, a lot of pride in that as well but it's par for the course. Your husband made your A list for a reason and those are things that should be noted. When he doesn't make them, is it status quo, is he being unreasonable? The two of you had an emotional connection for a very long time, that was lost for a while. Know you have learned some valuable lessons in keeping that. It's not about him having power or you...it's about balance in knowing each other. So go on the "date" tomorrow and establish a balance outside of the latest events.

 

Honestly, I don't think he wants a divorce either but let him talk it if he wants to, it's only talk right now. I'm gonna get thumped on the head for this post I think but at the end of it all, would you rather let go with love so you can move forward in your life or have to start healing from the inside out? You don't bring it up much, it's a part of you that you have moved on from...I know, I did too. But you let someone emotionally into your life...and that's okay as long as he is not hurting you, the fact is, its going to hurt as you grow.

[trippi1432]

. Some women hope that a baby will fix the marriage problems, but this is flat-out wrong.

 

Good luck.

 

Some men do too, just saying. I do agree with you though..don't trap or get en-trapped.

[Yasuandio]

AllieKat

 

 

Its great people have given so much advice to you and kind of sux that all your support is fading on here. I don't agree with them.

 

This statement shows that you are mistaken. Allie continues to get everyone's support, especially LS vets, even after signing of for the evening. We are all there for her, even if things do not go her way in this situation. The folks of LS that have consistently responded to Allie's threads are not "thems," but rather individuals with unique and differing perspectives. The aformentioned, according to Allie, have assisted in her growth process.

 

Coop and Tojaz, you are being pretty rough on AK. I doubt it helps. Tojaz, I wonder from all the posts if you don't have some feelings for Allie, maybe a crush? Just my impression no offense intended, I can certainly understand why.

 

Indeed, this is extremely offensive, Housebrokenwifey. Do you have any idea how many thoughtful posts Tojaz has offered Allie on several threads? He has devoted himself for months guiding Allie, with expert advice from a male's perspective. That is Tojaz' typical manner is assisting people in need on LS - he is "paying if forward," for the help he received in his time of need. Tojaz has an established, esteemed reputation on LS - how could you make such a wreckless statement? To include Coop, a man that is suffering with a marital problem himself, in this rediculious criticism is also inexcusable.

 

I think the above responses to Alley's recent post speak for themselves. She obviously has not lost support. She certainly has not lost mine (and I expressed a lot of concern about her choice in this matter). Yas

[AllieKat]

No worries no babies going to happen here! I kept my word to myself last night and no relations! He was still nice gave me a goodnight kiss and hug. That is by far what confuses me with him. Considering my lies and the subject matter ( my pregnancy) i would think the last thing he would do is sleep with me. Scary part is he wanted to be uncareful, so to speak. That boggles my mind!

 

He said he doesnt really want a divorce he just felt like if he cant get passsed this it was the only option. Ideally he wants to get passed this but he doesnt know how. He said its like a block.

 

Another issue is though we had sex and are keeping it at that why the other stuff. He doesnt need to kiss and hug me other times too? That is confusing. I feel like he is still in love with me but is so guarded. I mean to just go from fighting to this its a huge flip and knowing my hubby hes not a game player or a jerk so i dont think this is an act but of course im cautious because ive received a lot advice. Hes also not good at hiding his feelings be it mad, sad, happy whatever.

 

My fear is that his true feelings for me is what hes showing with the kind words and kisses and hugs but that hes settling for a marriage of just friendship and sex and nothing more emotional or bonding. My iniatial feeling since day 1 was he wont ever file and i believe that to be true but we may ever have a marriage like i want again and that stinks

[AllieKat]

AllieKat

 

 

I wish you the best! Its great people have given so much advice to you and kind of sux that all your support is fading on here. I don't agree with them. You know your husband best and as much as these some of these people were rooting for you it seems like certain ones are not happy for you. I am and I agree sex will not fix your martial issues but he's your husband and its your right to what you feel best. I wanted you to know Dave and I start counseling tomorrow and I'm so glad we are working things out. Thank you for standing up for me and being sweet. Good luck hun

 

Coop and Tojaz, you are being pretty rough on AK. I doubt it helps. Tojaz, I wonder from all the posts if you don't have some feelings for Allie, maybe a crush? Just my impression no offense intended, I can certainly understand why. I wonder how often romance blooms on here?

 

I'll just say thanks for the good luck wishes and Im happy your working things out with your hubby. As for the other issues I'll just disagree. Im sensitive so yes some of what is being said is hurtful and just opinions but I dont think anyone has a crush... Just being helpful and caring.

[Yasuandio]

No worries no babies going to happen here! I kept my word to myself last night and no relations! He was still nice gave me a goodnight kiss and hug. That is by far what confuses me with him. Considering my lies and the subject matter ( my pregnancy) i would think the last thing he would do is sleep with me. Scary part is he wanted to be uncareful, so to speak. That boggles my mind!

 

He said he doesnt really want a divorce he just felt like if he cant get passsed this it was the only option. Ideally he wants to get passed this but he doesnt know how. He said its like a block.

 

Another issue is though we had sex and are keeping it at that why the other stuff. He doesnt need to kiss and hug me other times too? That is confusing. I feel like he is still in love with me but is so guarded. I mean to just go from fighting to this its a huge flip and knowing my hubby hes not a game player or a jerk so i dont think this is an act but of course im cautious because ive received a lot advice. Hes also not good at hiding his feelings be it mad, sad, happy whatever.

 

My fear is that his true feelings for me is what hes showing with the kind words and kisses and hugs but that hes settling for a marriage of just friendship and sex and nothing more emotional or bonding. My iniatial feeling since day 1 was he wont ever file and i believe that to be true but we may ever have a marriage like i want again and that stinks

 

Your hubby defines trust under a very serious light, as well he should. But, it is reasonable to hope that your offenses could be forgiven, in time. I don't think anyone here on LS ever never felt your mistakes measured up to a death sentence for your marriage! That is a little over the top.

 

So, I would advise you to look at the difference between his behavior towards you now, and last week this time! And count your blessings. I hope things continue to go well. Willingly talking together, and communiating about the problem cannot hurt a thing, that I can see. Time can heal. Yas

[AllieKat]

Thanks Yas! Im hoping time will heal him to. He admits hes got issues and hasnt dealt with hurtful things in the past. He just doesnt feel like talking to a stranger is for him. So I suggested talking to his friend whose married with a baby on the way. He is level headed. Hubby said hes tried figuring out what he could of done to make me feel like i had to lie or how it happened and why but he is just at block. He wants to move passed it and hopefully reconcile but just doesnt know how. I told him distancing himself from me imo wont help him its just putting issues on backburner.

 

 

I do believe he cares deeply. The communication is notquite where I want it but its vastly better. Hes telling me his schedule which annoys me because he used to ask me if I cared if he did "whatever" instead of telling me. Which really isnt that bad its just not the way I want things. Sometimes I expect miracles overnight.i want to hear those words I love you and see the ring on his finger. Which he did take back btw not sure why except he had said it was his... Lol

 

Our date is nixed tonight because my dd is sick and she comes first. I told Hubby and he actually seemed disappointed. It was just dinner not a big deal but I was looking forward to it.

[AllieKat]

Date night happened!! Such a great time! Great conversation, doors opened, great food! Made my week! My awesome sister watched DD! Hubby and I are like chatty cathies... We both have so much to say its been 4 mths of catching up a normal hour dinner turned into 4 hours!!

 

Baby steps baby steps....

[riverratt]

Date night happened!! Such a great time! Great conversation, doors opened, great food! Made my week! My awesome sister watched DD! Hubby and I are like chatty cathies... We both have so much to say its been 4 mths of catching up a normal hour dinner turned into 4 hours!!

 

Baby steps baby steps....

 

Great for you both...

[trippi1432]

Good Allie - and do keep in mind baby steps. Keep in mind that the old way of your relationship is not the only way, it's okay for the relationship to grow as you both grow.

 

Hes telling me his schedule which annoys me because he used to ask me if I cared if he did "whatever" instead of telling me. Which really isnt that bad its just not the way I want things.

 

I get what you are saying, he states what he is going to do as opposed to asking if it's okay. Understandable as he is his own person and you can only control you. There is going to be growth on both sides and if plans clash, you both compromise. You are free to speak up and say something if plans clash, both of you respectfully.

 

One side of that, are you saying that you feel he doesn't care as much because he isn't asking? One could see that a man who has to ask for permission, while respectful to a degree, wouldn't you sort of start feeling like a "mom"? The other side of that is when a man just does what he wants with no thought to your feelings about the situation, disrespectful. Somewhere between, two people have to come to a balance where they respect each other and their feelings.

 

It won't be exactly the same as it was, but that doesn't mean that two people who are working through what you two have, can't make it better than before.

[AllieKat]

So far so good. The communication is off the charts good. I just would feel better if he said I love you or his ring was back on finger and neither has happened. We are going out tonight to and Im glad he wants to but I just am caught up in this ring thing. It leaves me to question things. Something else that alarmed me was the other night his desire to not practice safe sex. I didnt go for it but really? Why would he want to take a chance knowing what this whole fight stemmed from. Its confusing.

 

I feel like we are dating not married.

[trippi1432]

Hi Allie - A lot of times in these situations, people get advised to "date" their spouse to re-establish their feelings or their spouses feelings. Keep in mind, you may not be the only one being advised, he might be getting advice to on how to forgive and move forward either with or without you (just as you have). Don't read too much into that.

 

Aside from the rings and the verbal "I Love you's", those are baby steps that you guys are working towards: what does highly concern me is him not wanting to practice safe sex. You may have to take this in your own hands and address it. This is important Allie because you want to know where your marriage stands and not bring a child into the world if the relationship is in flux and there is divorce talk. I think you are firmly within your rights to respectfully talk about this with him. You've been in this position before with your daughter (being a single mom), it's not a position you want to be in again without a child's father being a part of the family unit.

 

I wouldn't position it that you want him to wear his ring or try to force the situation, simply a discussion that for sex to continue and until you are both comfortable if the marriage is going to continue, more care needs to be taken on the sexual relations.

 

As to him, and this is just speculation, it could be that he feels the miscarriage was his fault but doesn't want to talk about it. I don't know him nor can anyone read his mind and it sounds way out there....but then again, many things are. It may be re-creating where he feels things went wrong to right the wrong? Tread lightly.

[AllieKat]

I told him its gotta be safe sex or it cant be any sex. Im just speculating to but i feel like him being a smart guy he is well aware of what unsafe sex can bring so that leads me to believe hes looking for a reason to force himself to get over being mad at me by getting me pregnant. Either way i am not going to let that happen anytime soon.

[trippi1432]

I told him its gotta be safe sex or it cant be any sex. Im just speculating to but i feel like him being a smart guy he is well aware of what unsafe sex can bring so that leads me to believe hes looking for a reason to force himself to get over being mad at me by getting me pregnant. Either way i am not going to let that happen anytime soon.

 

Good, because you have to keep in mind that he can make it look bad too. I'm not going to discount things he said before, when he thought that you might have lied about being pregnant. If he wants a child with you, the relationship needs to be ironed out first so he cannot falter on it. The two of you are still on un-even ground.

 

If he is just "dating" you for now, this is not a disagreeable topic, safe sex.

[AllieKat]

Had a good night! We went mattress shopping and out to eat. We need a new mattress hubby has a bad back and we were going to get a new one prior to this fight but it got put off. So it was a lot of fun finding a bed we both agreed on and trying them out. We are building the great friendship we had back, and it is hard cause i just want things to be better sooner! But im happy again

[Cb3657]

Sounds like your issue is pretty much done congrats on overcoming this, hopefully your marriage gets stronger due to this. I advise you to not lie to your husband even about the small things. Seems like he has a Very low tolerance for this, good luck

[AllieKat]

Thx Im really hoping so! I def will not ever lie to him again, he doesnt deserve that and Im better than that too. I hope we can make a better, stronger marriage come out of this

[AllieKat]

Anyone have suggestions on how i can stop focusing on the things hes not doing? As better as things are Im so wrapped up in how he doesnt text meor call me like he used, him not wearing rings, not saying i love you, etc. these things are what make me feel upset. But i know to go to him and deliver this would be dumb because i know from his mouth hes unsure and taking things one day at a time. I know hes guarding himself and not fully letting go with me. I cant push him because hes put himself out a lot in just the last week and its totally unfair to ask him to do every single thing that he used to in just a weeks worth of getting along. I also dont want to rush his healing but I miss those things

[Yasuandio]

Anyone have suggestions on how i can stop focusing on the things hes not doing? As better as things are Im so wrapped up in how he doesnt text meor call me like he used, him not wearing rings, not saying i love you, etc. these things are what make me feel upset. But i know to go to him and deliver this would be dumb because i know from his mouth hes unsure and taking things one day at a time. I know hes guarding himself and not fully letting go with me. I cant push him because hes put himself out a lot in just the last week and its totally unfair to ask him to do every single thing that he used to in just a weeks worth of getting along. I also dont want to rush his healing but I miss those things

 

Allie, you are right - ya gotta stop focusing on the things he's not doing, come back down to Earth, and remember, he's not formally agreed to stay married to you yet, correct? If that's so, then he may be concerned about leading you on with "I love you's" and putting the ring back on. It fact it would be a clear indication that he is not at that point at all - and you have to accept that - until he tells you, explicitly, that his position on divoring has changed.

 

1st Suggestion: "No More Wishful Thinking"

 

One way to stop focusing on the things he's not doing, is to let go of your wishful-thinking, and accect these "peace-talks" for what they are, and accept the sex for merely a physical act, for now (like you said you could do). Continue to keep the message in mind of what he clearly stated to you on the first sexual encounter. I am sorry to tell you that, but I want to protect your feelings.

 

2nd Suggestion: "Thought Replacement"

 

I have to do this myself. The more I do it the better it works. When the thought enters my head, I make am mental task of changing the thought to a different thought. It helps to have some replacement thought in mind ahead of time. For instance, I think about the steps I must take to prepare a dish (complicated project, as when I cook - I make back-up dinners for the freezer).

 

So it starts with I want to make stuffed red peppers because they are in season, and they are very cheap. What do I already have here? What must I get from the store? What spice combination am I going to use this time? Well, for winter, I'm going with the cinnamon sticks and garlic for flavor. Blah, blah, blah.

 

By the time you rehurse someting of this nature in your head - you have forgotten the other thought. Another type of thought replacement I use that is quicker, for less obsessive thinking is to focus on something I have recently accomplished (that is big for me, because, I feel so comatose on my medication). Think of something that is big for you. Maybe something your daughter has accomplished that you are proud of. With practice, this really works.

 

3rd Suggestion: "Drugs"

 

You have to talk to your doctor for that. But there are drugs that help that problem. I have been on many. Let me tell you something about these drugs. They work like you would really want them to for a while, a very short while. Then you need a larger dose of same drug to get effect. YOU BECOME ADDICTED TO SOME OF THESE DRUGS - VERY FAST. But, in some cases, certain drugs are prescribed for a reason. If you really got a problem, talk to the doctor.

 

4th Suggestion: "Cool Off"

 

This one was suggested by my old theripist. It is like a behavior modification thing. I didn't even try it - but she was extremely serious, so I'm going to list here for you. She said whenever I had an obsessive thought, especially when it was driving me to do something I shouldn't do, that I needed to put my hand in cold ice water until it is very, very uncomfortable.

 

Those are my four ideas. Good Luck! Yas

Edited October 6, 2012 by Yasuandio

[AllieKat]

Ok Yas I can do this! ;-) Im ok with the sex part, not sure why but I am. Maybe its cause he talked to me about that night 1. Your right though I may be doing to much wishful thinking, though i feel hes given me signs hes staying maybe treated it more like a puzzle would be better. I have some pieces in the right place but its a hard puzzle, all the pieces arent in yet so till they are the puzcle is not complete.

 

I like all the ideas except the meds, no judgement just not for me. Im being selfish right now he gave me a few inches and I want a foot. Im alone tonight to so Im thinking about everything. Analyzing it all. Yuck I hate that i do that.