Forgiveness

[trippi1432]

Then that is what you should have actually asked. You should print the article and read it also.

 

I didn't even read the rest of your wall of text, sorry. The essay wasn't required.

 

Will Harley is an interesting guy. Good reference to his site. Why can't you just post the link?

 

 

Glad you like the reference, my apologies that I cannot be as trite in my replies to suit your needs; however, if you don't like the posts....simply put, don't read them.

[tojaz]

In an election year its nice to see everyone getting in the spirit with their own little debate, but I think we have drifted a little left of center here folks. Especially when the OP has nothing to add to the spat.

 

How are you Allie?

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Im doing good! Trying to focus on positive really looking forward to getting back into counseling. I just find myself needing to work on me more.

 

 

Positive- hubby and dd are communicating more and more and hes really making the effort with her. Thats really cool!

 

Hubby fired one of the gossips last night from her volunteer position, she was caught lying to rest of board and he put to them like she goes or i ( him) go. So they voted her out. I was thrilled because its been a long time coming and as recently as Sunday she was doung her high school behavior with me when i walked by her at game. I told hubby Sunday night it was becoming hard not to meet her in parking lot and punch her. Lol i really think hubby was just looking for a legit reason to fire her for personal reasons because what shes done to us. So she basically made it easy for him by lying about stuff.

 

Neg- hubby is sleeping on floor. He says its much more comfortable than bed.

 

His new job is not going well they are slow and sending ppl home early and having them come in late. Hes really stressed cause he needs the 40 hours each week.

[tojaz]

Im doing good! Trying to focus on positive really looking forward to getting back into counseling. I just find myself needing to work on me more.

 

 

Positive- hubby and dd are communicating more and more and hes really making the effort with her. Thats really cool!

 

Hubby fired one of the gossips last night from her volunteer position, she was caught lying to rest of board and he put to them like she goes or i ( him) go. So they voted her out. I was thrilled because its been a long time coming and as recently as Sunday she was doung her high school behavior with me when i walked by her at game. I told hubby Sunday night it was becoming hard not to meet her in parking lot and punch her. Lol i really think hubby was just looking for a legit reason to fire her for personal reasons because what shes done to us. So she basically made it easy for him by lying about stuff.

 

Neg- hubby is sleeping on floor. He says its much more comfortable than bed.

 

His new job is not going well they are slow and sending ppl home early and having them come in late. Hes really stressed cause he needs the 40 hours each week.

 

Good Stuff! The positive is most definitely positive, and the negative isn't necessarily negative.

 

Try not to put so much value on where he decides to sleep, especially when it sounds like hes doing well at working on the big stuff.

 

Keep a watchful eye as his job is causing him stress again, how he reacts to it compared to the last should be very interesting for you.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Good Stuff! The positive is most definitely positive, and the negative isn't necessarily negative.

 

Try not to put so much value on where he decides to sleep, especially when it sounds like hes doing well at working on the big stuff.

 

Keep a watchful eye as his job is causing him stress again, how he reacts to it compared to the last should be very interesting for you.

 

TOJAZ

 

Thx tojaz! Last time when he was hating his job and we were ok i said things that were insensitive and kinda pressuring like "we really need your job and the benefits" " we cant afford to have to leave we have this bill and then i listed them all" as if he didnt know. Well this time ive thought before i spoke. Instead i said "im so sorry your job is slow, that must be so stressful for you" and he said it was and then he was explaining why. A much better response

 

Its so nice to see him take interest in dd. he even wanted to see her halloween costume. I really am awfully impatient but i do feel like well come out of this stronger and closer.

[tojaz]

Thx tojaz! Last time when he was hating his job and we were ok i said things that were insensitive and kinda pressuring like "we really need your job and the benefits" " we cant afford to have to leave we have this bill and then i listed them all" as if he didnt know. Well this time ive thought before i spoke. Instead i said "im so sorry your job is slow, that must be so stressful for you" and he said it was and then he was explaining why. A much better response

 

Its so nice to see him take interest in dd. he even wanted to see her halloween costume. I really am awfully impatient but i do feel like well come out of this stronger and closer.

 

Like all things Allie, you will get out what you put in, you can rush and settle for a drive through cheeseburger or you can take your time and dine on the fine meal you sorely deserve.

 

I was talking more about his reactions to stress though, your not the only one that needs to be learning through this whole process.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

It's really how two people react....actions/reactions. My exH used to come home frustrated about his job, we would talk through it. Next thing I knew, he get a promotion or a raise...I still say that man has a horseshoe up his rear. LOL! He was always good at what he did, was one of the things I did admire about him.

 

Now, if I came home frustrated about my job, the coaching I got was to QUIT. And then I would run down the list you probably used to run down...who's gonna pay for this and that, lose the house, the cars,, this bill is due....etc. As women, it is our job to both worry as well as support, what we would like to hear from our spouses is pretty much what you said Allie, understanding....to open the conversation up to allow trust in having feelings heard.

 

That is something that needs to be reciprocal, but is not forced.

[AllieKat]

I think that his reactions to things when they arent going well is way more calm then before. I think my behavior switch definately does change how he acts. When i harped on him and he got more stressedand he got visibile annoyed. Now two night ago he got sent home early and he was very short tempered and i could tell and he had warned me so to speak that he was upset and why. So i was very careful with my words not cause him but cause my impulsive words are usually not what i want to say but rather such i regret. Ex threatening divorce for no real reason.

 

Needless to say when we were doing our paperwork for insurance i was trying to ask him something and i was reaching for words cause i didnt know how to get the story out. I could tell he he was annoyed and he made a rude gesture with his hands to say get to the point. I was pissed i wanted to tell him nevermind your a jerk FU! Which wouldnt of gone well especially right now. Instead i said sorry im tripping over my words. He said no dont worry about it im just in a crappy mood and being impatient cause im stressed...im Sorry.

 

He used to do that to my dd in a nice way as did i cause sometimes she gets to asking us a question and it goes into a story and we want her to get to the point because we know shes up to asking for something big. Anyway that still really hurt my feelings he did that cause to me its disrepectful but i didnt want to make it into more of an issue cause i knew he was already in a bad mood and he seemed sincere.

 

I can tell when hes stressed before i cared but i didnt have compassion for it i just wanted him to do about business as usual. Now if i see he is stressed i talk to him but i let him do what he wants which is to just sit and decompress w/o running here or do this or do that. Im fully capable of doing most anything around here and he seems to do better if he is stressed to just come home and decompress for an hour before being pulled 50 ways over dumb stuff. It seems to make a difference.

[AllieKat]

With all that being said how do i feel like he still loves me or cares if there is no affection, no how are you doings, etc? Thats the hard part for me thats what turns me into wanting to lash out at him and tell him just to scram.

 

He made it clear that though hes doing this group his biggest worry right now is work because w/o a job that is reliable its going to make everything else worse. I hear works more important in that then our marriage.

[AllieKat]

I wanted to post what small occurance happened yesterday. Hubby was at work and AGAIN they sent him home early cutting his hours short. I too was at work getting some extra hours in to help make up for the ones hes been losing all week. Dd was at home and was to cheer at her playoff game but since we both were working and nobody i trusted was available to take her i told her coach she wouldnt be attending this game. No big deal.

 

So when hubby texted me to tell me he was being sent home and he was really upset he said he was going to go to the playoff games( we had 2 teams there at same location back to back) i was annoyed because i thought hed offer to get dd. but deciding to choose my battles i didnt say anything more than that i was sorry they had sent him home and i hope next week business picks up. About 20 mins later he sends me another text to tell me he stopped home to check and see if DD wanted to go to her game since he was off! I thought that was very sweet and was so glad i didnt pick a fight on that.

 

Sister ruins the moment by telling me if hubby isnt trying to iniate sex anymore or sleeping with me he probably has someone else.... Grrrr negative nelly

[tojaz]

 

He made it clear that though hes doing this group his biggest worry right now is work because w/o a job that is reliable its going to make everything else worse. I hear works more important in that then our marriage.

 

So when hubby texted me to tell me he was being sent home and he was really upset he said he was going to go to the playoff games( we had 2 teams there at same location back to back) i was annoyed because i thought hed offer to get dd. but deciding to choose my battles i didnt say anything more than that i was sorry they had sent him home and i hope next week business picks up. About 20 mins later he sends me another text to tell me he stopped home to check and see if DD wanted to go to her game since he was off! I thought that was very sweet and was so glad i didnt pick a fight on that.

 

 

Allie, I'm looking at how you choose to perceive his actions here and what I'm seeing is a default to the negative. Do you see that in theses two posts?

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Yeah i do go that way. I think im doing better not acting on my negative as before i acted on it. Its how i think i was brought up and im desperatly trying to overcome it but its a work in progress. My family helps keep the negative a float with me too and thats so hard to get the things they say to hush

[trippi1432]

Allie - I agree that you are doing better about not acting on the negative with your husband, but I do want to ask you something.....from the time he sent the text about being sent home due to no work and the 20 minutes later when he sent the text that he was taking DD to the game, where does your sister play a part in that? You state that she ruined the moment....was that after your husband sent the text that he was taking DD or before?

[tojaz]

Yeah i do go that way. I think im doing better not acting on my negative as before i acted on it. Its how i think i was brought up and im desperatly trying to overcome it but its a work in progress. My family helps keep the negative a float with me too and thats so hard to get the things they say to hush

 

You have been doing an outstanding job at not acting on those feelings Allie, and that has helped you a lot, but having that expectation and that immediate negative perception can also do damage.

 

Look at the two situations I had quoted.

 

 

He made it clear that though hes doing this group his biggest worry right now is work because w/o a job that is reliable its going to make everything else worse. I hear works more important in that then our marriage.

 

I don't think thats the message he was trying to put out at all. My take as a bystander is that he is trying to do manage both but he wants to communicate to you that the work situation is adding to an already stressful situation.

 

In the next post you had stated that you had been taking on extra hours in order to bridge the gap, so this is definitely an issue that effects all of you. I think that is a good priority for him to have and so far it hasn't been to the detriment of working on the marriage.

 

 

So when hubby texted me to tell me he was being sent home and he was really upset he said he was going to go to the playoff games( we had 2 teams there at same location back to back) i was annoyed because i thought hed offer to get dd. but deciding to choose my battles i didnt say anything more than that i was sorry they had sent him home and i hope next week business picks up. About 20 mins later he sends me another text to tell me he stopped home to check and see if DD wanted to go to her game since he was off! I thought that was very sweet and was so glad i didnt pick a fight on that.

 

Heres one where you dodged acting on these thoughts, but they are still there and probably gave you a slow burn until you received the second message, even though he hadn't declared his intentions one way or another.... nor did you ask. You say you chose your battle here, but fact is there wasn't really a battle there to begin with except for how you let the scenario play out for you in your mind.

 

Its interesting because i would imagine his trust issues play very much the same way for him. A big part of being patient in this process is understanding that you are not doomed to something bad happening just because your not fighting against it, sometimes you just have to give things a chance to show you what they are.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Allie - I agree that you are doing better about not acting on the negative with your husband, but I do want to ask you something.....from the time he sent the text about being sent home due to no work and the 20 minutes later when he sent the text that he was taking DD to the game, where does your sister play a part in that? You state that she ruined the moment....was that after your husband sent the text that he was taking DD or before?

 

She was on phone with me, while he was texting. All while i was at work.

[AllieKat]

You have been doing an outstanding job at not acting on those feelings Allie, and that has helped you a lot, but having that expectation and that immediate negative perception can also do damage.

 

Look at the two situations I had quoted.

 

 

 

I don't think thats the message he was trying to put out at all. My take as a bystander is that he is trying to do manage both but he wants to communicate to you that the work situation is adding to an already stressful situation.

 

In the next post you had stated that you had been taking on extra hours in order to bridge the gap, so this is definitely an issue that effects all of you. I think that is a good priority for him to have and so far it hasn't been to the detriment of working on the marriage.

 

 

 

Heres one where you dodged acting on these thoughts, but they are still there and probably gave you a slow burn until you received the second message, even though he hadn't declared his intentions one way or another.... nor did you ask. You say you chose your battle here, but fact is there wasn't really a battle there to begin with except for how you let the scenario play out for you in your mind.

 

Its interesting because i would imagine his trust issues play very much the same way for him. A big part of being patient in this process is understanding that you are not doomed to something bad happening just because your not fighting against it, sometimes you just have to give things a chance to show you what they are.

 

TOJAZ

 

That the part Im having a hard time with waiting for this to show what they are. When i stated what he said and what i heard i wanted to explain how i know im interupting things wrong but i always seem to do that even though i know better. As i sit here i still feel like hes lying about his back just so he can get out of sleeping in bed with me. Not that anything goes on in bed but i really thought him sleeping there was a positive so him not sleeping there, to me, must be negative. I dunno im driving myself nuts again!! Im letting ppl put ideas in my head and im running with them.

 

I actually thought maybe he isnt sleeping here cause i make him ill and hes just being nice so he can stay here. Then i thought yeah that makes sense hes just using me otherwise hed sleep here, where his ring, tell me he loves me etc etc. im not posting this cause i think its ok to think this way just want ppl to understand my current state and im being scarily honest even though it makes me look like a total nutcase ?

[trippi1432]

Allie - Please go back and read Tojaz's post again......

[AllieKat]

Trippi- i reread it but this is just where my heads goes.... Sometimes. Not all the time but a lot. It wasnt this way when things were good, I was never this negative or unsure but its where i find myself ?

[trippi1432]

But i should be able to tell him stuff i mean Hello!!! Thats how we got into this mess becausei didnt feel like i could tell him. Thats something i have felt before to with him prior to this fight and sometimes i have felt like he isnt easy to tell bad things too. He gets upset easily and it sometimes felt directed at me.

 

On my part im seeing that i didnt give him the trust he had earned. Again this is prior to this fight. If he was 15 mins late coming home from work id get pissy and think wonder what hes REALLY doing, though i didnt usualy say anything when he came home i would give him the cold shoulder and not tell him why unless he jumped through hoops asking first. For my part either when wed have little tiffs i would pout till he came and kisses my ass even if i was wrong. That coupled with me throwing out threats of divorce over a tiny fight.

 

I see how i was difficult. He spoiled me and i would act like a brat when i didnt get my way. Those TOJAZ i think are the other issues. We never fought about sex, money, my dd or anything else. For my part Im insecure and ive put that on him.

 

Trippi im am my worst enemy, i sit here and think of things hemight be doing instead of texting me. I let my imagination run wild till it eats me up and i cant quiet it and i take it and throw it at him. I will say i was never this bad, the uncertainity in our marriage is making it worse because im allowing it.

 

Before that first fight when i threatened divorce i wasnt this bad and i think as ive tried so hard to give him a baby i became insecure! Two years in feb is the first time i cried divorce and thats i think was my way of getting his attention because thats when we both but more him was so wrapped up in this football program it was consuming our lives to much and his time and i think i was jealous

 

@trippi he stopped talking to his mom 7 years ago basicslly shortly after we were married because of her behavior at our reception. At first i was mad at her to because she acted like a b**** but after a few months i was over it he is not. That was my first taste of his grudge holding and though it bothered me i felt like he had a sticky past with her and had been through bad stuff with her and i would let it up to him to decide his relationship with her.

 

My insecurity 2 years ago came in i think because i had gained some weight, and my hubby was taking calls 24/7 so it seemed from the football president who was thinner, prettier, and it made me jealous because i felt annoyed when she call him needing him to fix something and he would drop everything to fix it. Hed complain about her being dumb and what not and he was fixing things from home it wasnt like he was going to met her or anything.but i got jealous cause my husband that had dotted on me and adored me was now being needed by others and it annoyed me. It got to the point that when i threatened hubby with first divorce threat i throw out there you like football more than me i wish youd just quit. So at a meeting a week later he did. Then i felt bad becàuse i saw how sad he was giving up his hobby and everyone missed him and the kids missed him so i encouraged him to go back and he did. He then tried to balance things better but it was still him the guy they all called for everything.

 

Trippi- i reread it but this is just where my heads goes.... Sometimes. Not all the time but a lot. It wasnt this way when things were good, I was never this negative or unsure but its where i find myself ?

 

Allie - I bring these quotes back up because they sort of got overlooked due to the drama that hit your thread a couple of times; however, what I see here is some root causes of your stress and anxiety. Not something he is intentionally doing or has been doing for the past 2 years, but I think where you have gotten when you speak of having these negative thoughts.

 

What you have stated in these quotes Allie, are the very things you need to speak to your therapist about.

 

What are your thoughts on these items above that you posted previously? What do you feel his thoughts are on the subject?

[AllieKat]

When i reas these it makes me sad! I think how could i of handled things better. Hubby would agree that was when the first issue came about but im sure he wouldnt think i should of felt jealous of that lady at all. Hed say i should know hed never cheat on me. But its just not easy! He also would say that that is why he quit and i shouldnt of told him to go back. And i think that would be true. I wish i wouldnt of. He did say a month or so ago that he warned the other couple not to both be involved because it will cause them marriage issues. So he knows maybe that is why hes quitting now.

[Yasuandio]

That the part Im having a hard time with waiting for this to show what they are. When i stated what he said and what i heard i wanted to explain how i know im interupting things wrong but i always seem to do that even though i know better. As i sit here i still feel like hes lying about his back just so he can get out of sleeping in bed with me. Not that anything goes on in bed but i really thought him sleeping there was a positive so him not sleeping there, to me, must be negative. I dunno im driving myself nuts again!! Im letting ppl put ideas in my head and im running with them.

 

I actually thought maybe he isnt sleeping here cause i make him ill and hes just being nice so he can stay here. Then i thought yeah that makes sense hes just using me otherwise hed sleep here, where his ring, tell me he loves me etc etc. im not posting this cause i think its ok to think this way just want ppl to understand my current state and im being scarily honest even though it makes me look like a total nutcase

 

Allie,

 

If we were to remove you from this forum for a moment - and you were speaking to God, or a higher power, or person of which you have great admiration and respect - this person unknown to all, maybe trusted person, relative, or mentor you knew as a very young girl or student, a person that perhaps has already passed now - what words would you use to decribe your husband's true, inner character? What kind of a man is he? How honorable is he?

 

Based on this post, I'm very interested in your answer to this question - outside the dimensions of LS. Can you telll me? Yas

[AllieKat]

Yas- hes a very good man! Hes loyal, honest and very kind to those he holds high. He doesnt care much what people say and he speaks his mind. He is stubborn and can come off as hard if you dont know him. Hes very confident on the outside but sensitve and unsure on the inside. Hes also very intelligant and funny. Hes is very honorable.

[Yasuandio]

Yas- hes a very good man! Hes loyal, honest and very kind to those he holds high. He doesnt care much what people say and he speaks his mind. He is stubborn and can come off as hard if you dont know him. Hes very confident on the outside but sensitve and unsure on the inside. Hes also very intelligant and funny. Hes is very honorable.

 

 

That sounds like really good news to me. You can trust, perhaps, that he iss not playing you - or using you for a place to stay, if this is truely the type of man you describe. I would tell him that that is how you perceive him - and you don't want to ever learn that he has just used the house and you as a place to bunk up until July.

 

Somehow - I think he needs to be told that directly - so you do not get devestated come nine months from now. Do you know what I mean? To me, it seems like a fair question. I know, the counciling group, whatever. But - still - that is to wishy-washy, in my humble opinion. What is wrong with telling him how devestated you would be if he up and dumped you 9 months from now - and the conclusion will have been obvious, past hoc? That's not the makings for a happy girl.

 

This is just one of my "yasuandio" ideas today (btw, that means "hello-goodby" in Greek). Just to think, explore, that's all. You know manic me by now, all over the place, but with good intentions. Seee ya later, allagator. Yas

[AllieKat]

Yas- i think your right! With hurricane Sandy here soon him and i have plently of time to talk, no excuses! ?Im glad u asked me what typeof guy he is because i need to remember that when im quick to think the worst. thank you yas. You and trippi and tojaz have been so nice to me

[trippi1432]

When i reas these it makes me sad! I think how could i of handled things better. Hubby would agree that was when the first issue came about but im sure he wouldnt think i should of felt jealous of that lady at all. Hed say i should know hed never cheat on me. But its just not easy! He also would say that that is why he quit and i shouldnt of told him to go back. And i think that would be true. I wish i wouldnt of. He did say a month or so ago that he warned the other couple not to both be involved because it will cause them marriage issues. So he knows maybe that is why hes quitting now.

 

They say hindsight is 20/20 Allie, it's not about how you handled it then, it's about how you handle it now. You say that he would have said that you should know that he would never cheat...and I believe that you said he handled most things from home. The issue became that it was taking away from you and the home you made for your family. Obviously, there were issues in the mix with too much neediness within that group from what you have eluded to, as his wife, you were okay to point it out. But below are your instincts about the man you know and love aren't they?

 

Yas- hes a very good man! Hes loyal, honest and very kind to those he holds high. He doesnt care much what people say and he speaks his mind. He is stubborn and can come off as hard if you dont know him. Hes very confident on the outside but sensitve and unsure on the inside. Hes also very intelligant and funny. Hes is very honorable.

 

Allie - take fear, negative thoughts, thoughts that have been put in your head by others and what do your instincts tell you as you know him? Believe me when I say that I know your tension is like a rubber band about to snap, but until "another woman" shows herself, you can only go on what you have known as your instincts about him. Sweetie, you have been in so much fear for the past couple of years, and if it's not evident to you yet as to why, you really need to go back and look at your posts.

 

Have that talk with him that Yas suggested, it's a good one. And don't be afraid to talk about your fears with him, he's your husband. The family he's had for the past seven years, you and DD, may be the one he is happiest with. Stop letting your fears run the show in Allie's head, ask him what he wants as well and let him be honest with you.

 

Like you said, plenty of time to talk with Hurricane Sandy making its way...hitting my house tonight as well with the winds. Heading for safer southern shores tomorrow, so if I don't check in, know that I hope you and yours are safe.