Why Do People think Lowly Of Hookers?

[Scottdmw]

It's only immoral in your opinion. It is wrong (factually wrong, as in completely incorrect) to say it is immoral as a fact, as nothing is. Or revolting, really. You can certainly say YOU think it is immoral, but too often people say something is immoral without understanding that morality is always a matter of opinion.

 

I don't care if someone considers it against THEIR moral code. It just seems too many people act as though their moral code should be imposed upon others, which is completely wrong---as in utterly incorrect.

 

So for you, all morality is relative except one thing. You think it is completely immoral to impose a moral code on someone else.

 

You do realize don't you that that's a direct contradiction? If you want to say that morality is all a matter of opinion, then if someone comes along and points a gun to your head and says you will do as they say, you really can't complain. That person is following their moral code and they are entitled to it.

 

I think this is wrong. I think an absolute standard of morality does exist, although we may disagree about what it is in certain cases. But, nearly every human being agrees that killing someone to take their money is wrong, and there is a pretty good list of things like that.

 

I know you don't like people being judgmental, and you think it's a problem that some people try to impose their morality when they shouldn't, but let's not go too far with that argument.

 

Scott

[KathyM]

Do you have a source?

 

Here are some excerpts from one article, but I've seen several more where studies showed that most male customers are married or have a SO:

The John Next Door

 

Jul 18, 2011 1:00 AM EDT

 

The men who buy sex are your neighbors and colleagues. A new study reveals how the burgeoning demand for porn and prostitutes is warping personal relationships and endangering women and girls.

 

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Use links below to read the article

 

 

 

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Edited June 9, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[threebyfate]

It's only immoral in your opinion. It is wrong (factually wrong, as in completely incorrect) to say it is immoral as a fact, as nothing is. Or revolting, really. You can certainly say YOU think it is immoral, but too often people say something is immoral without understanding that morality is always a matter of opinion.

 

I don't care if someone considers it against THEIR moral code. It just seems too many people act as though their moral code should be imposed upon others, which is completely wrong---as in utterly incorrect.

Your stance is one of moral relativism which in itself is a moral stance.

 

The same with working your way up in the US' date=' the American Dream. It is still a powerful myth, but the myth is increasingly under pressure as social mobility becomes more and more restricted in the US.[/quote']Social mobility or socioeconomic mobility? There's a distinction if you consider old and new money.

 

The more I meander down this road, the more it's obvious that our society is headed for Feudalism with its kamikaze two-tierism.

 

Mary Magdalena is not by any stretch of the imagination portrayed in the same way throughout the past 2,000 years. And it is when the accents change that these changes may be reflective of changes in the society in which Mary Magdalene was idealized (or idolized).

No doubt. She was originally revered as someone close to Jesus, an apostle and wife. Then she became a hooker and now they've split Mary into two separate individuals, hooker and Magdelene.

 

It is rather that the views on prostitution serve to legitimize the "natural order". And this particular "natural order" certainly is not something that should be upheld as a goal or a lofty standard.

 

In less extreme cases, you will be looking at the US, where more and more women will be deprived of an opportunity to build a better life for themselves, unless they f*ck themselves through college.

 

As long as that does not get addressed we are not really helping prostitution out of this world.

Natural order is a control mechanism. Mankind within itself is a fearful species and is capable of controlling its environment sufficiently that it or at least the most aggressive, place themselves at the top of the food chain.

 

Where we differ in our beliefs is that for women who choose prostitution, they're not victims. They're part of their own problem and also part of the reinforcement of natural order. They do have a choice, whether student loans or working in less lucrative jobs.

 

However, the reality is, that our economies are increasingly failing the ordinary citizens. In extreme cases, you can look at places like Thailand, and some republics that where part of the former USSR / East Bloc.

Our economies are failing because of poor fiscal management and because jobs are disappearing through industrial/technological economies of scale and outsourcing. Profits that were once shared amongst many, are being enjoyed solely by the top level, which brings us back to two-tierism.

 

Historically, revolution follows the pattern of extreme two-tierism.

[Ross MwcFan]

Prostitutes are outstanding members of society, and are providing a much needed service for a lot of men.

[d'Arthez]

Where we differ in our beliefs is that for women who choose prostitution, they're not victims. They're part of their own problem and also part of the reinforcement of natural order. They do have a choice, whether student loans or working in less lucrative jobs.

I am not claiming they are victims of the profession. Legalizing prostitution will help to give these women more rights, and with that, hopefully a better opportunity to exercise the rights that they ought to enjoy under the rule of law.

 

I have an issue with the system that refuses to actually address real people's needs. Affordable education being one, decent salaried jobs being another. No amount of legislation in itself will change that - though it seems with spiraling student debt, the effect of legislation may well be that more and more women choose prostitution as a way out of life-defining and life-destroying debts.

 

Historically, revolution follows the pattern of extreme two-tierism.

Yup, the world is a ticking time bomb now.

[joystickd]

You guys really can't whitewash a profession like this. It is harmful to the families of the consumers, and since most of the customers of prostitutes are married men, those families are negatively affected, and many are destroyed as a result. It is also harmful to the women involved. I had researched this topic in depth, and have taken several college classes on the abuse of women. It is a fact that most women who go into prostitution were victims of sexual abuse (57%) or physical abuse (49%) as children. I posted an article showing these statistics, but unfortunately, the moderators are reviewing it and have not posted it yet. But you can do your own research if you don't want to accept those statistics at face value. Many prostitutes are forced into the profession as well, either through trafficking, or through coersion. The article also stated that 82% of prostitutes are raped by their customers. Many are beaten. Even in countries where it is legalized, women are trafficked. It's time you men stopped supporting a destructive industry, and I'm dismayed, to say the least, that some of the women on here are supporting it.

 

The main problem is the negative stigma behind it. Legalize and then after destroy the negative stigma and the statistics will drop dramatically. The way the economies in some of these countries are drugs and prostitution will be legal in a few years.

[threebyfate]

I am not claiming they are victims of the profession. Legalizing prostitution will help to give these women more rights' date=' and with that, hopefully a better opportunity to exercise the rights that they ought to enjoy under the rule of law.[/quote']My reasoning for wanting the decriminalization of prostitution is focused on reducing the demand for sex trafficking/slavery, reducing the drag on taxpayer dollars for legal/enforcement costs and supplementing governmental coffers with taxes collected.

 

I honestly don't care about hookers who made the choice to hook. Cold but honest.

 

I have an issue with the system that refuses to actually address real people's needs. Affordable education being one, decent salaried jobs being another. No amount of legislation in itself will change that - though it seems with spiraling student debt, the effect of legislation may well be that more and more women choose prostitution as a way out of life-defining and life-destroying debts.

You can't just pin it on the system. People are choosing educational routes that have no return or insufficient return or demand at the end of the duration. They're accruing educational debt impractically. What's sad is that for the past number of years, there's been huge demand for trades people and an insufficient amount being cranked out since people want degrees in [insert impractical degree].

 

But I do agree that the cost of education needs to come down. Unfortunately, the solution would be more job loss in the educational sector since its premised on leveraging off technology, rather than employing more people.

 

Yup, the world is a ticking time bomb now.

We'll see what happens but the world's ripe for socialism.

[KathyM]

Why must we not moralize? It's an immoral and revolting occupation.

 

Thank you for saying that. It damages and destroys marriages and families and perpetuates violence and harm to the prostitute as well.

[threebyfate]

Thank you for saying that. It damages and destroys marriages and families and perpetuates violence and harm to the prostitute as well.

Don't thank me too soon since my reasoning is utilitarian in nature beyond compassion for the true victims who are forced into prostitution by physical coercion (sex slavery). This is why I want it legalized. The retraction of prohibition proved that legalization impacts the supply/demand chain, in that organized crime isn't terribly interested in marginal returns so they wander off to find something else to corrupt for more lucrative gains.

 

As far as prostitution destroying marriages and families, I'd be looking to the moronic married men more although the hookers also bear responsibility as enablers in the same way as OWs. Quite frankly, people disgust me.

[aj22one]

We'll see what happens but the world's ripe for socialism.

 

Or Anarchism. haha

[joystickd]

Thank you for saying that. It damages and destroys marriages and families and perpetuates violence and harm to the prostitute as well.

 

Those marriages would have been destroyed anyway. If it wasn't a prostitute it would have been someone. These men have the mindset of cheating so blaming the prostitute is crazy. Violence is from negative stigma of prostitution. We look down on prostitutes and it creates a perception that makes them more prone to violence. These people that are attack prostitutes think no one will miss them or that they are low class and no one cares what happens to them. Destroy that stigma and you have stopped the violence against prostitutes.

[somedude81]

That's an extremely biased article.

 

Thank you for saying that. It damages and destroys marriages and families and perpetuates violence and harm to the prostitute as well.

And affairs with non-prostitutes are more accepted?

[aj22one]

Those marriages would have been destroyed anyway. If it wasn't a prostitute it would have been someone. These men have the mindset of cheating so blaming the prostitute is crazy. Violence is from negative stigma of prostitution. We look down on prostitutes and it creates a perception that makes them more prone to violence. These people that are attack prostitutes think no one will miss them or that they are low class and no one cares what happens to them. Destroy that stigma and you have stopped the violence against prostitutes.

 

See, to the moral statist if you outlaw the sin, you can stamp it out using the power of the state. It's the same attitude that drove alcohol prohibition and today's war on drugs. All you end up doing is making the activity go underground and attract violence and all kinds of anti-social people.

[Ross MwcFan]

Why must we not moralize? It's an immoral and revolting occupation.

 

...In your opinion.

[threebyfate]

Or Anarchism. haha

Ha...doubt that would happen which is probably why you're laughing too.

 

I honestly do see socialism returning but it won't be a violence free return since part of human nature besides hoarding, appears to be protection of goods hoarded.

 

As a species, human beings are horrifically destructive in our insecurity.

[aj22one]

Ha...doubt that would happen which is probably why you're laughing too.

 

I honestly do see socialism returning but it won't be a violence free return since part of human nature besides hoarding, appears to be protection of goods hoarded.

 

As a species, human beings are horrifically destructive in our insecurity.

 

Well the whole world isn't ripe for anarchism, but certainly the militias in some parts of the US are.

 

The world I think is headed for Orwell's 1984. Much of that book has already come to pass. We only need one or two more nudges and then we'll fall right off the cliff.

[threebyfate]

Well the whole world isn't ripe for anarchism, but certainly the militias in some parts of the US are.

 

The world I think is headed for Orwell's 1984. Much of that book has already come to pass. We only need one or two more nudges and then we'll fall right off the cliff.

Global socialism.

[aj22one]

Global socialism.

 

Without the human face though haha.

 

And I mean more about the police state stuff. You don't have to be communist/socialist to have a police state.

[threebyfate]

Without the human face though haha.

 

And I mean more about the police state stuff. You don't have to be communist/socialist to have a police state.

I don't disagree that we're almost there which is frightening in itself. Perhaps that's why my mind prefers the lesser of two evils and that's socialism. Unfortunately, socialism can also be corrupted.

 

*puts on tinfoil hat and climbs into mothership, ready for takeoff to the crab nebula*

 

 

Anyways, back to prostitution. I'm not a bleeding heart when it comes to voluntary prostitution. Once voluntary, bear the heat of ostracization. There are always consequences to actions.

[zengirl]

It is a fact that most women who go into prostitution were victims of sexual abuse (57%) or physical abuse (49%) as children. I posted an article showing these statistics, but unfortunately, the moderators are reviewing it and have not posted it yet. .

 

I can't find these citations anywhere, especially on voluntary prostitution, which needs to be separated from forced prostitution for any real examination.

 

Statistics do say that most prostitutes are physically or sexually assaulted in their work, which is why legalizing it would be excellent.

 

So for you, all morality is relative except one thing. You think it is completely immoral to impose a moral code on someone else.

 

No I think it's literally incorrect to say that morality exists in the way you're trying to say it does since it cannot be agreed upon. I think legality should exist not for morality's sake but for the sake where actual societal harm can be proven, such as murder, theft, etc. But societal harm is not SOLELY a moral concept. I have no issues with moral concepts, but I have issues with people using moral concepts as facts, rather than opinions.

 

I have no problem with people being judgmental -- I have a problem with them passing their judgments off as factual statements, as though morality truly exists in that manner. It doesn't.

 

I see no reason that prostitution being made illegal helps prevent actual societal harm, therefore legalizing or illegalizing it comes down to moralizing, which is fairly pointless. Everyone has his/her own morality and applying yours to someone else is not just "wrong" in a moral sense (though in some morality systems it is) but in a real sense of being completely incorrect and never going to work out well.

 

Your stance is one of moral relativism which in itself is a moral stance.

 

See above. I'm not speaking of morals at all.

Edited June 9, 2012 by zengirl

[KathyM]

The main problem is the negative stigma behind it. Legalize and then after destroy the negative stigma and the statistics will drop dramatically. The way the economies in some of these countries are drugs and prostitution will be legal in a few years.

The problem is not the stigma. The problem is that there are men who abuse women and children, and exploit them. Sexually and physically abuse them. So girls grow up being abused and with low self esteem.

[KathyM]

Don't thank me too soon since my reasoning is utilitarian in nature beyond compassion for the true victims who are forced into prostitution by physical coercion (sex slavery). This is why I want it legalized. The retraction of prohibition proved that legalization impacts the supply/demand chain, in that organized crime isn't terribly interested in marginal returns so they wander off to find something else to corrupt for more lucrative gains.

 

As far as prostitution destroying marriages and families, I'd be looking to the moronic married men more although the hookers also bear responsibility as enablers in the same way as OWs. Quite frankly, people disgust me.

Well, I don't agree with you that prostitution should be legalized. Studies have shown that in the countries where prostitution has been legalized, the demand for services went up dramatically, which increased the human trafficking into those countries. Not a good thing for society or for women or for families. But I do agree with you that some people are disgusting. People who put money ahead of everything else, and don't care who they hurt to get it. People who put their penis ahead of everything else, and they don't care who they hurt in the process.

[aj22one]

Well, I don't agree with you that prostitution should be legalized. Studies have shown that in the countries where prostitution has been legalized, the demand for services went up dramatically, which increased the human trafficking into those countries. Not a good thing for society or for women or for families. But I do agree with you that some people are disgusting. People who put money ahead of everything else, and don't care who they hurt to get it. People who put their penis ahead of everything else, and they don't care who they hurt in the process.

 

So you advocate using force against people doing what they have every right to do?

[KathyM]

Those marriages would have been destroyed anyway. If it wasn't a prostitute it would have been someone. These men have the mindset of cheating so blaming the prostitute is crazy. Violence is from negative stigma of prostitution. We look down on prostitutes and it creates a perception that makes them more prone to violence. These people that are attack prostitutes think no one will miss them or that they are low class and no one cares what happens to them. Destroy that stigma and you have stopped the violence against prostitutes.

I'll blame the enabler as well as the cheater. Whether that enabler is a prostitute or not. And it's questionable whether the man would have gone out to cheat if not for prostitutes who are readily available, the man doesn't have to even leave his home in order to book one, and there's little risk of discovery. So I'll blame the women who advertise themselves to married men on the internet, and I'll blame the men who choose to betray their wife and children, use women as objects to be purchased, abuse women, and put their wife at risk of getting an STD, possibly an incurable one. Violence against women is not from stigma. Violence against women is the result of men feeling a sick need to dominate and hurt women, and that somehow satisfies them and makes them feel like more of a man.

[Sugarkane]

Most men don't buy that crap plus mostly women liked that movie.

 

I hated Pretty Woman so much. Just a fairy tale from Hollywood and a waste of money. A hooker is more likely to be abused than get a rich man to marry her.

It seems there's more and more about uni students becoming hookers to pay off debts. If I get the newspaper tomorrow there probably be something on it. I feel sorry for them. Having to sleep with ugly/ abusive guys who often get off abusing women. And if you're a uni student how else are you supposed to pay off large sums of money? In my parents day the government paid for it, know you have to yourself.

 

They didn't show much of that on Secret Diary of a Call Girl. Instead they made it seem glamorous. And hardly any of the guys were old/ugly.

 

I don't think governments care. I mean even one of our politicians is in the news for spending money on hookers. People blame hookers but there's no supply without demand! They talk about making it safer, yet they never actually do anything. As usual.