Why Do People think Lowly Of Hookers?

[123321]

One of the results has been the trafficking in women and children to 'supply' legal and illegal brothels. The 'sex entrepreneurs' have difficulty recruiting women locally to supply an expanding industry, and women from trafficking are more vulnerable and more profitable."

 

People misunderstand what trafficking means. Most of this uptick is simply due to illegal sex workers (no work VISA) being voluntarily imported into places like Australia where they can work at their already established trade as prostitutes for much larger income.

 

TL,DR: Thai hookers come to Oz to make more money than they can in their home country.

[threebyfate]

OK, here you go. Here is one study showing legalizing prostitution increases human trafficking. There are certainly other studies out there. This study was 34 pages long, so I am only posting the introduction summarizing their findings.

 

<snip illegible garbage>

Actually, the study is 48 pages long, fraught full of confirmation bias, unsubstantiated assumptions and about as airy-fairy as it gets.

 

Extracted from the actual study:

 

Naturally,this qualitative evidence is also somewhat tentative as there is no “smoking gun” proving that the scale effect dominates the substitution effect and that the legalization of prostitution definitely increases inward trafficking flows. The problem here lies in the clandestine nature of both the prostitution and trafficking markets, making it difficult, perhaps impossible, to find hard evidence establishing this relationship. Our central finding, i.e., that countries with legalized prostitution experience a larger reported incidence of trafficking inflows, is therefore best regarded as being based on the most reliable existing data, but needs to be subjected to future scrutiny. More research in this area is definitely warranted, but it will require the collection of more reliable data to establish firmer conclusions.

 

In essence, this study has Economics envy by attempting to establish formulaic controls on unsubstantiated data and assumptions made by the 'creators' of this study.

 

Uh, in this country, at least, condoms (and STD checks) are mandatory, and they have the right to refuse business from anyone they please. Obviously, there is a tradeoff there - a businesswoman can refuse to deal with an obnoxious, rude client, but she has to make that decision based on how important his business is to her. At any rate, I don't know why one thing bothers them more than the other, but I'd think they're more qualified than you or me to decide what should or should not bother THEM.

So you're using anecdoetal evidence (convos with a few hookers) and laws passed in a country that 98 to 99% of the membership don't live in, to make sweeping statements about global prostitution which really have dick all to do with your stance of why society should view hookers in a positive way? Like WTF?

[OhHey]

If my daughter became a hooker and let random, dirty dics in her for money...I'd be ashamed and disown her if I couldn't bring her out of it.

Knowing she is out there with all these azzholes dipping in her....I'd go nuts I couldn't take it.

 

With Natalie Halloway....we all know she is out there sex slavin...those azzholes scooped her up quick because they knew she'd bring in a lot of Johns. She may of even killed herself or died anyways.

 

That **** pisses me off... you don't want to know what I'd do to her captors.

[123321]

If my daughter became a hooker and let random, dirty dics in her for money...I'd be ashamed and disown her ...

 

How would you feel if she was doing the same thing for free?

[casey1989]

Hello,

 

So I am a prostitute, from the UK. This discussion was very interesting to me.

 

I am not trafficked, have never been abused or raped, do not come from a broken home, and am a perfectly happy and healthy individual.

 

I love my job.

 

Why?

 

I love sex, I love being able to run my own business, and I love the lifestyle that it enables me to have. I work completely legally and pay taxes. I have a degree, and spend a lot of my time doing volunteer work and work experience, so I can have another career when I get older. I could easily get another job, but I don't see why I would when this gives me so many more opportunities, and I enjoy it so much.

 

Now it is probably very different in countries where it is illegal, but in the UK there are many sex workers that enjoy what they do.

 

In regards to the studies you are all quoting, I have to tell you that most of us that enjoy our work would not be partaking in these kinds of studies- because we want to remain anonymous and because we don't want to 'get out' of the industry.

 

Many of this depends on what you stereotype us as. I am not a streetwalker, nor do I work in a brothel. I work out of my own residence- with practised security measures and I keep the full fee that I receive. Many would call me a high-class escort (think belle du jour) but that is just dressing it up, I still sell sex. And I'm not ashamed to say that I love doing it.

[KathyM]

You're still focusing on one part of the equation. There's plenty of guys who can't connect with a woman on a normal basis that visits prostitutes. That's a fact. They don't make up a small % of the customers at all.

 

You can be against it because of the damage it does to families, but why punish the guys who aren't married or in a relationship? Because some lousy husband decided to cheat on his wife with a prostitute? I'm sure he'd find some way to eventually cheat, anyway.

Neither you nor I know what percentage of customers are the ones who, after much trying, have found themselves unable to find any woman at all to be interested in them, but I venture to say that is a very small percentage. The vast majority of the customers are married or in a committed relationship. I have read that from many articles and many testimonies from the prostitutes themselves. The remaining minority are made up of a combination of men who want a quick fix without the effort involved, men who are temporarily between relationships, men who have an addiction and no outside relationship, men who just want to f*uck around with whomever, and whatever other scenario. The men you speak of are a very small minority. I just don't see the "benefits" to this small group of men as needing to outweigh all the negatives associated because of this profession. And I don't see this as a benefit to this small group of men anyway. They could contract an STD. (99% of prostitutes have had at least one STD and can unknowingly pass it on before they even know they are infected, or when it is in the dormant stage, or despite the use of condoms). Did you know that 33% of all married men that see prostitutes don't wear a condom with her? These single men will have a cold, emotionless experience with someone who can't stand them and has no feelings whatsoever for them, and has to emotionally disassociate herself from the situation in order to be able to tolerate it. Doesn't sound like something worth seeking. The negatives outweigh any possible benefit.

[ThaWholigan]

Hello,

 

So I am a prostitute, from the UK. This discussion was very interesting to me.

 

I am not trafficked, have never been abused or raped, do not come from a broken home, and am a perfectly happy and healthy individual.

 

I love my job.

 

Why?

 

I love sex, I love being able to run my own business, and I love the lifestyle that it enables me to have. I work completely legally and pay taxes. I have a degree, and spend a lot of my time doing volunteer work and work experience, so I can have another career when I get older. I could easily get another job, but I don't see why I would when this gives me so many more opportunities, and I enjoy it so much.

 

Now it is probably very different in countries where it is illegal, but in the UK there are many sex workers that enjoy what they do.

 

In regards to the studies you are all quoting, I have to tell you that most of us that enjoy our work would not be partaking in these kinds of studies- because we want to remain anonymous and because we don't want to 'get out' of the industry.

 

Many of this depends on what you stereotype us as. I am not a streetwalker, nor do I work in a brothel. I work out of my own residence- with practised security measures and I keep the full fee that I receive. Many would call me a high-class escort (think belle du jour) but that is just dressing it up, I still sell sex. And I'm not ashamed to say that I love doing it.

Hello,

 

I'm intrigued. This discussion has mainly taken the view that married men are the bulk of the consumers in your line of work, whereas a few have stated that men who have trouble with women in general would benefit more. What is your take on this? Are the majority of your clientele married or attached? Or are they often single men who struggle?

[KathyM]

You mean the number of prostitutes and trafficking that the authorities know about decreased. There's a huge difference.

 

I'm not saying the study is necessarily false, but that's the point: When it comes to such things, studies are of marginal value. Evidently the number of obvious cases of anything will decrease when it is outlawed, as compared to when it is not - because people take more steps to hide it. But that says nothing about whether or not the volume of illegal/nonconsensual cases, which is what we should REALLY be worried about where prostitution is concerned, increases or decreases.

 

These are all things that you cannot know from the ivory tower. No rigorous statistics, no amount of ANOVA and chi-squared tests are able to genuinely provide a picture of what ultimately goes on behind the scenes.

 

Speaking from experience, women are kidnapped every day for human trafficking in several countries in which prostitution is 'illegal'. On the other hand, in countries such as Aus/NZ in which it is legal, human trafficking is almost nonexistent.

Well, I just can't win, can I? I was asked to post studies supporting my claim, and then when I do, you dismiss them saying studies are of marginal value and not reliable. I guess people will chose to believe whatever suits their needs or agenda, regardless of what the evidence is. The study I posted covered 150 countries. I think that's a pretty wide sample to make a conclusion, but it's common sense in any case. When it is made legal, people who would otherwise be deterred are more likely to partake. When there is more demand, the supply increases to keep up with the demand, and the supply often comes through human trafficking or coersion. But you believe what you want, which suits your own agenda, rather than what studies show.

[casey1989]

Hello,

 

I'm intrigued. This discussion has mainly taken the view that married men are the bulk of the consumers in your line of work, whereas a few have stated that men who have trouble with women in general would benefit more. What is your take on this? Are the majority of your clientele married or attached? Or are they often single men who struggle?

 

No the 'bulk' of customers (to my knowledge) are not married- not to say that some of them aren't. They are either young, disabled, recently widowed or divorced. They come from all walks of life. What may shock many of you are a lot of these guys are perfectly normal- there is nothing psychologically wrong with them, they just have there own reasons for using prostitutes. Take going to a bar to hook-up for example; the girl may not want sex, they may end up being sick on their bathroom floor, and all this takes several hours, of possible fruitility. Instead they could call an escort- she would be there within the hour and gone an hour after that.

[ThaWholigan]

No the 'bulk' of customers (to my knowledge) are not married- not to say that some of them aren't. They are either young, disabled, recently widowed or divorced. They come from all walks of life. What may shock many of you are a lot of these guys are perfectly normal- there is nothing psychologically wrong with them, they just have there own reasons for using prostitutes. Take going to a bar to hook-up for example; the girl may not want sex, they may end up being sick on their bathroom floor, and all this takes several hours, of possible fruitility. Instead they could call an escort- she would be there within the hour and gone an hour after that.

I'd imagine so. Of the few escorts I have met and spoken to, they have often described many of their clients as normal and all different. Few married. I asked how many virgins they get, They said quite a few. Said it was a good way to lose it if you find the right one. They were actually very sympathetic about it all, which caused me to consider the idea of doing so. I still decided against, but I have never had a negative view of escorts personally.

[KathyM]

Hello,

 

So I am a prostitute, from the UK. This discussion was very interesting to me.

 

I am not trafficked, have never been abused or raped, do not come from a broken home, and am a perfectly happy and healthy individual.

 

I love my job.

 

Why?

 

I love sex, I love being able to run my own business, and I love the lifestyle that it enables me to have. I work completely legally and pay taxes. I have a degree, and spend a lot of my time doing volunteer work and work experience, so I can have another career when I get older. I could easily get another job, but I don't see why I would when this gives me so many more opportunities, and I enjoy it so much.

 

Now it is probably very different in countries where it is illegal, but in the UK there are many sex workers that enjoy what they do.

 

In regards to the studies you are all quoting, I have to tell you that most of us that enjoy our work would not be partaking in these kinds of studies- because we want to remain anonymous and because we don't want to 'get out' of the industry.

 

Many of this depends on what you stereotype us as. I am not a streetwalker, nor do I work in a brothel. I work out of my own residence- with practised security measures and I keep the full fee that I receive. Many would call me a high-class escort (think belle du jour) but that is just dressing it up, I still sell sex. And I'm not ashamed to say that I love doing it.

I'll assume, for a minute, that you are a legitimate poster on here and not someone making a second account solely for the purposes of debate. Doesn't it bother you to know that you are helping many men to cheat on their wives and families? Doesn't it bother you to know that it is destroying marriages and families? I guess the answer would be no, since you still choose to do it. And I would prefer to rely on published studies of the problem, and testimonies of multiple former and current prostitutes rather than one anonymous poster on a message board who may or may not be who they claim to be.

[casey1989]

Well, I just can't win, can I? I was asked to post studies supporting my claim, and then when I do, you dismiss them saying studies are of marginal value and not reliable. I guess people will chose to believe whatever suits their needs or agenda, regardless of what the evidence is. The study I posted covered 150 countries. I think that's a pretty wide sample to make a conclusion, but it's common sense in any case. When it is made legal, people who would otherwise be deterred are more likely to partake. When there is more demand, the supply increases to keep up with the demand, and the supply often comes through human trafficking or coersion. But you believe what you want, which suits your own agenda, rather than what studies show.

 

With respect Kathy- statistics are not the most reliable data to use. I am not saying they are not helpful, but rather you should take them with a pinch of salt. Especially if you are talking about a group of people who have to remain anonymous because of the kind of stigmatisation that they face everyday.

 

Some of the stats are completely wrong (at least for the UK) 33% of men don't use condoms. Well that's just incorrect here. Almost all prostitutes use condoms- and in the industry it is regarded suicidal and silly not to. I'll give you several reasons:

1. we value our lives and our health

2. if a girl picks something up, she can't work, meaning a loss of earnings

3. If she contracts something and one of her clients gets it, her reputation is ruined

4. Clients do not want to risk getting anything either.

 

That's just one example of how off-base stats can be.

[casey1989]

I'll assume, for a minute, that you are a legitimate poster on here and not someone making a second account solely for the purposes of debate. Doesn't it bother you to know that you are helping many men to cheat on their wives and families? Doesn't it bother you to know that it is destroying marriages and families? I guess the answer would be no, since you still choose to do it. And I would prefer to rely on published studies of the problem, and testimonies of multiple former and current prostitutes rather than one anonymous poster on a message board who may or may not be who they claim to be.

 

No it doesn't bother me. Not in the slightest. I provide a service, which people choose or do not choose to partake in. If a man is prepared to cheat, he will cheat. What would it solve by me feeling bad about it? The man will still seek someone else out- and therefore it doesn't make a difference whether it is me or someone else. Think of it like this; by closing one Macdonalds Franchise, you aren't going to close the whole corporation. Cheating is a societal issue- not my personal moral issue, or the issue of prostitutes in general. Even if men didn't cheat we would still work, and want to work.

 

I understand that, but my point is this is why people are so ignorant. By the societal judgement we face we cant' speak out and say how it really is.

[KathyM]

With respect Kathy- statistics are not the most reliable data to use. I am not saying they are not helpful, but rather you should take them with a pinch of salt. Especially if you are talking about a group of people who have to remain anonymous because of the kind of stigmatisation that they face everyday.

 

Some of the stats are completely wrong (at least for the UK) 33% of men don't use condoms. Well that's just incorrect here. Almost all prostitutes use condoms- and in the industry it is regarded suicidal and silly not to. I'll give you several reasons:

1. we value our lives and our health

2. if a girl picks something up, she can't work, meaning a loss of earnings

3. If she contracts something and one of her clients gets it, her reputation is ruined

4. Clients do not want to risk getting anything either.

 

That's just one example of how off-base stats can be.

How would you know what the stats are, unless you've studied them? You said you are an independent contractor working out of your house, so you really don't know what the stats are for the profession as a whole unless you've studied them. I'll choose to believe the studies done rather than one person's personal accounting. I've read many accounts of prostitutes only using condoms during intercourse, but not during oral sex. There's plenty of STDs that can be transmitted through oral sex. Some of them lifelong and incurable. And a condom does not protect against some STDs. Some STDs you can still get, even with the use of a condom. There are also women who will elect to do without a condom during intercourse for a higher price. Also, some STDs are not detectable until six months after exposure, meaning the prostitute has been having sex with hundreds of guys during that time before she knew she was infected. It's a risky, unhealthy, destructive thing no matter how you look at it.

[KathyM]

No it doesn't bother me. Not in the slightest. I provide a service, which people choose or do not choose to partake in. If a man is prepared to cheat, he will cheat. What would it solve by me feeling bad about it? The man will still seek someone else out- and therefore it doesn't make a difference whether it is me or someone else. Think of it like this; by closing one Macdonalds Franchise, you aren't going to close the whole corporation. Cheating is a societal issue- not my personal moral issue, or the issue of prostitutes in general. Even if men didn't cheat we would still work, and want to work.

 

I understand that, but my point is this is why people are so ignorant. By the societal judgement we face we cant' speak out and say how it really is.

Unfortunately, it's because of women like you, who don't care what the consequences of their behavior are, and the damage that they do, that many marriages and families are destroyed. So you justify your harmful actions by telling yourself that it may as well be you that helps him cheat on his wife and family, because if it's not you, it will be somebody else. I guess people will rationalize anything if it makes them more money. I feel sorry for you, and for the wives and children that your actions help to destroy.

[casey1989]

How would you know what the stats are, unless you've studied them? You said you are an independent contractor working out of your house, so you really don't know what the stats are for the profession as a whole unless you've studied them. I'll choose to believe the studies done rather than one person's personal accounting. I've read many accounts of prostitutes only using condoms during intercourse, but not during oral sex. There's plenty of STDs that can be transmitted through oral sex. Some of them lifelong and incurable. And a condom does not protect against some STDs. Some STDs you can still get, even with the use of a condom. There are also women who will elect to do without a condom during intercourse for a higher price. Also, some STDs are not detectable until six months after exposure, meaning the prostitute has been having sex with hundreds of guys during that time before she knew she was infected. It's a risky, unhealthy, destructive thing no matter how you look at it.

 

That doesn't mean I don't know other working girls, just because I work by myself. Like i said- which apparently you are not getting- girls won't talk because of the stigmatisation they face, from people like you. At the end of the day you can believe what you want.

 

I am very aware of all of the STD risks you have said and probably infinitely more informed about it than you- and I'm sorry but I protect myself as best I can. The irony is us girls that work generally look after our sexual health better than most non-sex workers.

 

As for it being unhealthy and risky no matter how you look at it, thats just how you look at it. And there are definitely other ways of looking at it.

[casey1989]

Unfortunately, it's because of women like you, who don't care what the consequences of their behavior are, and the damage that they do, that many marriages and families are destroyed. So you justify your harmful actions by telling yourself that it may as well be you that helps him cheat on his wife and family, because if it's not you, it will be somebody else. I guess people will rationalize anything if it makes them more money. I feel sorry for you, and for the wives and children that your actions help to destroy.

 

Instead of wasting your time feeling sorry for me (which I'm baffled by) maybe you should attribute more blame to the two people who made a life time commitment to each other, and are breaking that commitment.

 

I am not breaking any commitment to anyone, nor forcing anyone to have sex with me.

 

It's like you are treating the issue of cheating and prostitution as the same thing, and the two things are completely separate issues.

 

Also I never have to justify it; I never even give it a second thought.

[somedude81]

Thank you for taking the time to post casey1989.

 

I knew there were many women like you who choose to get into escorting and who are perfectly healthy individuals.

 

How did you decide to get into escorting?

[casey1989]

Thank you for taking the time to post casey1989.

 

I knew there were many women like you who choose to get into escorting and who are perfectly healthy individuals.

 

How did you decide to get into escorting?

 

Hah well the idea of having sex with strangers turned me on

One day I just sort of decided to do it- loved it and never looked back!

[Woggle]

Some people are use Facebook bars and their place of employment to cheat. Does that mean that we should ban those things as well. Should somebody working at a restaurant feel bad because some people eat too much?

[somedude81]

Hah well the idea of having sex with strangers turned me on

One day I just sort of decided to do it- loved it and never looked back!

Heh, sounds like it worked out great for you.

 

Doing something that turns you on, and getting paid for it too.

 

I've always thought that prostitution was a decent way for a girl to make a lot of money as long as she wasn't hung up about sex and was smart enough to minimize risk while keeping all the money for herself.

[Scottdmw]

Hah well the idea of having sex with strangers turned me on

One day I just sort of decided to do it- loved it and never looked back!

 

So you just happened to join Loveshack right now and have posted on this discussion but no others.

 

I guess it can't be known one way or the other whether you are legitimate but I'd say there is serious reason for doubt.

 

Even if you are real, yours is the experience of one person and a handful of others you know personally. That is anecdotal evidence and is generally agreed to mean very little.

 

Scott

[Scottdmw]

People misunderstand what trafficking means. Most of this uptick is simply due to illegal sex workers (no work VISA) being voluntarily imported into places like Australia where they can work at their already established trade as prostitutes for much larger income.

 

TL,DR: Thai hookers come to Oz to make more money than they can in their home country.

 

So those of us against prostitution have time and again posted studies and statistics, while those for keep asking for more without offering anything themselves but assertions. Do you have any evidence to base your claim here on? The studies I posted said, for example, that 89% of prostitutes wanted to leave and felt they couldn't.

 

Scott

[somedude81]

So you just happened to join Loveshack right now and have posted on this discussion but no others.

 

I guess it can't be known one way or the other whether you are legitimate but I'd say there is serious reason for doubt.

Why even doubt her at all?

 

How do you know she hasn't been lurking for a while and decided to make an account to share her story?

 

That's actually what most members do actually, that or they make a thread asking for help.

 

Even if you are real, yours is the experience of one person and a handful of others you know personally. That is anecdotal evidence and is generally agreed to mean very little.

 

Scott

Last time I checked, this isn't a trial.

 

I know it must really suck for you to think that a woman can actually choose to be a prostitute because you are completely biased against prostitution and believe that everything related to it is evil. Having her post completely goes against your belief and all you can do is try to discount it.

[casey1989]

So you just happened to join Loveshack right now and have posted on this discussion but no others.

 

I guess it can't be known one way or the other whether you are legitimate but I'd say there is serious reason for doubt.

 

Even if you are real, yours is the experience of one person and a handful of others you know personally. That is anecdotal evidence and is generally agreed to mean very little.

 

Scott

 

Think what you like but I was actually looking for some advice when I came across this thread, and just wanted to give a realistic representation of the industry, instead of a hypothetical representation.

 

Actually I am part of a community which supports prostitutes. So I come into contact with thousands of prostitutes. I have already highlighted the problems of using statistics in this industry, and will not go over it again. I guess this is the problem though, no one is actually willing to listen!