My wife has left me. where do i go from here

[andyg99]

phil all I can say is that Stead has given you golden advice.... you need to let her go, if you follow Kathy's advice you are basically putting yourself in a competition with other guys for the attention of YOUR wife!!! Let her go, she told you she wants out by her ACTIONS! Many years ago when I was in a counseling session after my breakup my counselor told me this: "this is what it means when a woman leaves you or says she is done: it mean SHE IS DONE!"... I know Kathy is only trying help, I just disagree with her position, you agree with her advice because you THINK it will help you "win" back your wife when in fact it will push her away and probably put you on the bottom of her list of people she wants to be with (those guys on the dating site are ahead of you) - that's blunt, I know, but it's true.... take care, and re-read this thread over and over..... all we ever should be in life is ourself, if you have to convince your own wife that you are good enough for her what does that say?

[KathyM]

Typing your entire response in bold text does not make it more profound. More annoying would be...more accurate.

 

 

 

You can't force anyone to do anything, married or not. One's word is either good, or it isn't. If a spouse wants to sleep around they should divorce, not sneak off under the premise of 'working on their problems' or 'needing to be alone'.

 

This wife (and so many others...) clearly hid her intentions, otherwise, why would her husband be shocked when he learned of it? The truth of this dynamic is repeated over and over; the selfishness of the betrayer demands the spouse stay in place for support (in case things don't work out, or they simply change their mind) until he/she makes a final decision.

 

Kathy, what you see as a 'mistake' I see as a decision. If you noticed, I never once mentioned NC in any of my posts. On the whole, I don't believe it's realistic, and nearly impossible when children are involved. There are times when totally shutting someone out is advisable, especially those whose selfishness places too many demands on the betrayed.

 

As I've already stated, I flatly disagree with your views on separation. IMO, your stand diminishes the very real effects of deception and infidelity. And while these things can be overcome by two loving, recommitted people, the motivation and resulting loss of trust behind the action is almost always more damaging that the action itself. Then again, if problems persist, one can always take it back to therapy, right? Better still would to embrace honestly on a personal level and align one's self with the same.

 

You see my attitude regarding the situation as pessimistic, I see it as realistic. Still, considering the main motivation behind the professional therapy biz is to keep 'em coming back (or better yet that elusive, but highly prized state-funded contract) the ideal of subjective right/wrong is written in stone. IMO, the basis of a good life is honesty and humility.

 

I am against rewarding betrayal and dishonesty. The real numbers indicate a very low success rate for a true, happy and honest reconciliation. I will stop just short of saying you place training and methodology over the cause and effect of broken marriages, but that certainly seems to be the case at times. I see your advice on this topic helpful for people who are having problems communicating, but not for those who betray, break promises, change their minds or subject their spouse to history revision.

 

As for your comment on my counseling abilities and/or status, you need not worry. The real threat of the professional therapist is the growing understanding that the overwhelming majority of people have within themselves the ability to pinpoint, analyze and solve their own problems. The sheer amount and quality of advice on this forum alone should (and often does) leave the working analyst red faced with embarrassment.

 

Let's encourage people to get on their feet in strength and determination. Demand honesty and integrity for yourself first, then others.

I typed my text in bold because I don't know how to get only part of the text in the quote box, so I did that to separate my response from your text. I'm not trying to emphasize, I'm trying to make it easier to read the response from the prior text. If you want to enlighten me on how to get just parts of the text in their own separate box, I'd be happy to know that.

 

I don't believe the wife separated because she wants to sleep around. They separated because of all the stress and burdons they were facing, which took its toll on their marriage. Again, you are calling the wife the betrayer as if she cheated when they were still together. I don't see it that way. She is only considering dating because they are separated. I would agree with you that the success rate for reconciliation after an affair is low, but that is not what we are dealing with here. She left the marriage. She is not cheating on him. She is pursuing a single life on her own. It is possible to reconcile after people have separated. I've seen it happen in real life, and have read about success stories many times. Infidelity did not cause this break up. The life stress they were undergoing caused it.

[KathyM]

phil all I can say is that Stead has given you golden advice.... you need to let her go, if you follow Kathy's advice you are basically putting yourself in a competition with other guys for the attention of YOUR wife!!! Let her go, she told you she wants out by her ACTIONS! Many years ago when I was in a counseling session after my breakup my counselor told me this: "this is what it means when a woman leaves you or says she is done: it mean SHE IS DONE!"... I know Kathy is only trying help, I just disagree with her position, you agree with her advice because you THINK it will help you "win" back your wife when in fact it will push her away and probably put you on the bottom of her list of people she wants to be with (those guys on the dating site are ahead of you) - that's blunt, I know, but it's true.... take care, and re-read this thread over and over..... all we ever should be in life is ourself, if you have to convince your own wife that you are good enough for her what does that say?

The only time a woman goes running back to an estranged husband after there has been no contact is when she has not found anyone else that she likes during the period of separation, and she realizes she better go back to what she had rather than being alone. People who do find someone else would not be going back. NC does not make people go back. NC allows people to move on with their life and seek others. If you go NC, and she finds someone else in the meantime, she will not return. Your marriage will not be salvageable. If you keep limited contact, she is more inclined to reconcile, and it won't be because she hasn't found anybody else, it will be because she realizes she still loves you and still wants you.

[andyg99]

The only time a woman goes running back to an estranged husband after there has been no contact is when she has not found anyone else that she likes during the period of separation, and she realizes she better go back to what she had rather than being alone. People who do find someone else would not be going back. NC does not make people go back. NC allows people to move on with their life and seek others. If you go NC, and she finds someone else in the meantime, she will not return. Your marriage will not be salvageable. If you keep limited contact, she is more inclined to reconcile, and it won't be because she hasn't found anybody else, it will be because she realizes she still loves you and still wants you.

 

I think too much focus is on "finding" someone else... obviously both parties have issues here... if she is trolling dating sits in lieu of fixing herself and marriage then that's just sad, but those are the facts... when a marriage is in jeopardy that last thing either party needs to do is "date", if both aren't making the marriage (and working at each others faults that led to a breakup) priority #1 then there's really no point. The OPs wife has moved on and out, she knows how he feels.. what is the point of him trying to "win" her back????? love is a two way street - I'll say it again if you have to stand on your head to convince someone that they should be with you then it's not worth it....

[philbatch]

Just to give you all an update, I moved from the sofa of my friends house last weekend and now living on my own in a house close to work. It's been very strange on my own but hope i'll adjust in time. I'd like to thank-you all for your advice so far I respect it all even if I don't agree with all of it.

 

Many of you will think I'm crazy but tomorrow would have been our 3rd wedding anniversary and my wife has agreed to meet for a drink in the evening. Spoke with her on the phone briefly the other night which was weird after so long.

 

I don't want people to say I shouldn't go as I understand your concerns but my question is, how do you think I should play it? I'm so nervous and excited. I need to be control of the situation but scared I might get emotional or angry etc..... what are your thoughts?

[robf1971]

I need to be control of the situation but scared I might get emotional or angry etc..... what are your thoughts?

 

 

It depends,

 

Did your wife call you and say

 

' I'm so sorry, I can't live without you, move back in? did she beg to come back to you?

 

If the above is the case then go with a bunch of roses and a packet of condoms

 

 

Otherwise go in with a smile and no expectations, knowing that in all likelihood she will throw you a crumb or maybe politely brush you off.

[robf1971]

but scared I might get emotional or angry etc.....

 

This is PRECISELY the reason that most will suggest not going.

 

Getting emotional or angry will not help your cause ...

[tangledweb]

One thing that has helped keep my head on somewhat straight was one bit of advice:

 

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

 

In my case, (no anniversary or anything) we had a meeting for lunch. We talked about the kids, and some light chat about junk & how we were getting by individually. Then in one hopeless romantic impulse as we said goodbye, I said 'come here a sec', gave her a kiss. It was not returned in any fashion. Followed by her one word "nothing" as in; she would have gotten more from kissing a rock. I should have watched her body language, but my emotions got the best of me.

 

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. I'm praying for the best.

[2.50 a gallon]

No relation talk, unless she brings it up

 

And your position is you believe in the vows you took, and want to save the marriage, and if not have this attitude, if you don't love me, I will find someone who does

 

Rule of thumb, waywards and cheaters, cheat down. Betrayed spouses eventually find someone who is much better in looks, personality, character and they trade up

[philbatch]

Thanks everyone, really really nervous now, meeting her at 7:30

[2.50 a gallon]

pb

 

What happened?

[KathyM]

I didn't see this thread after OP recently posted. I hope the date went well. What you should be trying to do when meeting your estranged spouse is to be light and friendly, upbeat and happy, showing you are doing well, and make it a fun evening, with interesting topics of conversation, similar to what you'd be doing with someone you recently started dating. Your goal is to reestablish good feelings in the relationship. There shouldn't be relationship talk at this stage, unless she initiates, and certainly shouldn't be any going over of what went wrong in the relationship. Keep it light and pleasant. It takes time to rebuild.

[jstobo]

The fact he has not posted cannot be good. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so. I'm afraid another shoe got dropped. I was going to give some advice, but I'll wait to see if we get an update.

[philbatch]

Hey everyone,

 

The evening went ok thank-you.

 

I took bits of advice from everyone. I played it cool and light and remained in control for most of the evening.

 

We met in a pub, then I invited her back to my new place for a drink which after a while she agreed to. Although she had to make a point of saying "just as friends"

 

At my place I remained in control, we had a laugh and a joke and talked about old times and memories. As she was considering to go leave I invited her to stay the night in the spare room. Again she agreed.

 

We drank more and I will admit I was starting to feel quite drunk. I asked her if she missed me however, we were sat on the sofa and I sub-consciously put my arem around her and she responded by snuggling up to me just like we use to. I then asked if she missed me. She said "Why do you keep torturing yourself" I said "I take that as a know then" she replied "of course I miss you"

 

As we were going to bed I stupidly went in for the kiss however, she kissed me back before eventually pulling away.

 

I then even more stupidly suggested she could sleep in with me. She did consider this before deciding it wasn't a good idea. I feel this was my only mistake of the evening.

 

The next morning I went into her room with a coffee. I laid next to her and we cuddled for about half an hour just like we use to.

 

Although we had several close moments, she kept re-iterating that she dosen't want to confuse me or give me the wrong idea etc etc. In my mind tho I can't help but think this is reverse psychology and she is actually scared of her own feelings or something like that?

 

Anyway, I dropped her off at work in the morning. She gave me a big hug and said she had a great time.

 

She is coming around again on Thursday evening for dinner. I know I'm getting my hopes up and I know I'm probably setting myself up for a fall but I did keep in control for the most part and I think I did a good job in showing that I'm quite happy and trying to move on.

 

Any thoughts everyone?

[jstobo]

Hey everyone,

 

The evening went ok thank-you.

 

I took bits of advice from everyone. I played it cool and light and remained in control for most of the evening.

 

We met in a pub, then I invited her back to my new place for a drink which after a while she agreed to. Although she had to make a point of saying "just as friends"

 

At my place I remained in control, we had a laugh and a joke and talked about old times and memories. As she was considering to go leave I invited her to stay the night in the spare room. Again she agreed.

 

We drank more and I will admit I was starting to feel quite drunk. I asked her if she missed me however, we were sat on the sofa and I sub-consciously put my arem around her and she responded by snuggling up to me just like we use to. I then asked if she missed me. She said "Why do you keep torturing yourself" I said "I take that as a know then" she replied "of course I miss you"

 

As we were going to bed I stupidly went in for the kiss however, she kissed me back before eventually pulling away.

 

I then even more stupidly suggested she could sleep in with me. She did consider this before deciding it wasn't a good idea. I feel this was my only mistake of the evening.

 

The next morning I went into her room with a coffee. I laid next to her and we cuddled for about half an hour just like we use to.

 

Although we had several close moments, she kept re-iterating that she dosen't want to confuse me or give me the wrong idea etc etc. In my mind tho I can't help but think this is reverse psychology and she is actually scared of her own feelings or something like that?

 

Anyway, I dropped her off at work in the morning. She gave me a big hug and said she had a great time.

 

She is coming around again on Thursday evening for dinner. I know I'm getting my hopes up and I know I'm probably setting myself up for a fall but I did keep in control for the most part and I think I did a good job in showing that I'm quite happy and trying to move on.

 

Any thoughts everyone?

 

This is very positive. It is so important right now for you to stay in control. I had a moment similar to this and I think the big mistake I made was trying to get everything back to normal. If you are able to do your own thing for the next couple of days and allow her to think about what just happened, it will do wonders. I think you have a real opportunity here and you absolutely need to play it right.

 

I'm sure Karen will have a different opinion. But I think with all my heart, had I allowed my ex to enjoy a night like you just described and then had to go a few days without me chasing her, it would have pulled her in. Instead I jumped on it and tried too hard. With that, I pushed her away again. Do the same thing Thursday. Just try not to ask the "miss me" question and you're golden.

[KathyM]

This is very positive. It is so important right now for you to stay in control. I had a moment similar to this and I think the big mistake I made was trying to get everything back to normal. If you are able to do your own thing for the next couple of days and allow her to think about what just happened, it will do wonders. I think you have a real opportunity here and you absolutely need to play it right.

 

I'm sure Karen will have a different opinion. But I think with all my heart, had I allowed my ex to enjoy a night like you just described and then had to go a few days without me chasing her, it would have pulled her in. Instead I jumped on it and tried too hard. With that, I pushed her away again. Do the same thing Thursday. Just try not to ask the "miss me" question and you're golden.

The name is Kathy. And I would agree with you that coming on too strong, or trying too hard is not the answer. I've advocated for taking it slow, keeping it light, keeping your foot in the door, and work on rebuilding the good feelings and the attraction. It sounds like the date went pretty well. What I would suggest, however, is that the OP refrain from too much drinking, as that will lower your inhibitions, and you could very well start blabbing something that would be counterproductive. If you want to stay in control, you have to limit the alcohol. Other than that, I think he played it pretty well. Good luck on your next date. Don't pressure to be intimate, but if the opportunity arises, then by all means. Nothing like sex to keep a spouse thinking about you and craving to be with you.

[robf1971]

Hey everyone,

 

Although she had to make a point of saying "just as friends"

 

, she kept re-iterating that she dosen't want to confuse me or give me the wrong idea etc etc.?

 

Classic infidelity script

[robf1971]

I can't help but think this is reverse psychology and she is actually scared of her own feelings or something like that?

 

No one on this planet can read minds, If you could do it you'd be as rich as Bill gates.

 

What I'm trying to tell you, as someone who has fought tooth and nail to save his marriage and succeeded, is that you are trying to pressure her. You are pursuing her to the n'th degree. Go read divorce remedy, go look on Divorcebusting pursuing, pressuring someone to love you cannot work ever.

 

I think your wife has no intention of getting back with you, I also think she's cheating. She is happy to keep you on the back burner and throw you a few crumbs she realises it's a way to control you.

 

However, there is one caveat, that is that her feelings can change, so the situation isn't hopeless if you change what you are doing. There are ways you can play the terrible hand you've been dealt, but carrying on the way you are is pointless.

[philbatch]

Classic infidelity script

 

Based on what exactly? Did you not read my post? There is absolutely no way she would have bothered meeting up, coming round, staying over, been affectionate if she was seeing someone else. She would have nothing to gain.

[philbatch]

No one on this planet can read minds, If you could do it you'd be as rich as Bill gates.

 

What I'm trying to tell you, as someone who has fought tooth and nail to save his marriage and succeeded, is that you are trying to pressure her. You are pursuing her to the n'th degree. Go read divorce remedy, go look on Divorcebusting pursuing, pressuring someone to love you cannot work ever.

 

I think your wife has no intention of getting back with you, I also think she's cheating. She is happy to keep you on the back burner and throw you a few crumbs she realises it's a way to control you.

 

However, there is one caveat, that is that her feelings can change, so the situation isn't hopeless if you change what you are doing. There are ways you can play the terrible hand you've been dealt, but carrying on the way you are is pointless.

 

Rob, I respect your opinion, I really do but I disagree with your post. Your opinion is based on your own experience. That does not mean it works for every situation. Yes, maybe I'm perusing her but i am in no way pressuring her. I don't think what I'm doing is pointless and I don't believe she is cheating. I'm not trying to make her love me as she has said throughout our break up that she does. As I said I do respect your opinion but all things considered I think I did a good job the other evening and I have no regrets.

[Steadfast]

We met in a pub, then I invited her back to my new place for a drink which after a while she agreed to. Although she had to make a point of saying "just as friends"

 

Strike one

 

She said "Why do you keep torturing yourself"

 

Strike two

 

I then even more stupidly suggested she could sleep in with me. She did consider this before deciding it wasn't a good idea.

 

Strike three

 

Although we had several close moments, she kept re-iterating that she dosen't want to confuse me or give me the wrong idea etc etc.

 

Good lord...

 

Only someone who has been where you are can understand, and I have been. Tell me your situation is different Phil. I'll tell you it isn't. Once again: she's into someone else...or at least, the idea of another man. She's keeping you handy. She doesn't want to and won't change her mind.

 

Period.

 

Open her purse and take your balls back. This is not romantic interlude, it's emotional suicide. You don't believe it Phil, because you don't want to believe it. You had her cornered in your apartment and she responded by locking her elbows. How can you, or anyone take this as a 'positive step'?

 

Some lessons can be taught, while others must be learned. The hard way.

[2.50 a gallon]

pb

 

Have you read and memorized the 180 list?

 

One of the most important rules is to give her the appearance that you are moving on in life. Let her begin to wonder, he's a great guy and going to have a fun good life, do I want to take a chance let him fall into the arms of another woman?

 

She is coming over Thursday night for dinner. That would be Thanksgiving, does that mean that you can cook? Are you schooled enough in cooking that you can bake something like a turkey?

 

My Ex knew I was a good cook, and after we separtated, in order to keep my mind busy, I took on the task of teaching myself how to cook some gourmet meals.

 

I was sperated from my Ex and had moved into a new apartment complex a good hour away from where she was living, and she did not have a car, yet some how she found out that I was turning into a great cook and sharing them with other available women. That made her even more desperate to win me back

 

One of the first lessons I learned in life in dealing with the opposite sex, is that when it comes to the holidays, the worst thing you can do is be a bah humbug guy. Most women, positively responded to a guy who gets with the program and celebrates

 

Whose got the Christmas decorations? If you do put them up and add to them. You have mentioned that money is a problem, for cheap decorations try a Goodwill store. I picked up a bag of medium sized LED lights last weekend for $3, and there were two strings in the bag.

 

Decorating and putting up holiday lights, is like hanging out a neon sign in front of your place that women will notice and that says to them a guy who knows how to celebrate Christmas lives here.

 

At my first Christmas after seperating I desparately needed to find a way to reclaim the holidays. I knew I was going to miss her very much, and in my weakened state would have been tempted to let her back in my life. First off it would have been our first anniversary, and our way of decorating a tree was unique in that she wore this skimpy see through outfit while she decorated the tree. And she had already offered to come by and help me decorate the tree.

 

It was then that I found a bag cookie cutters that my mom had give us. Some of them were the same cutters that I had used as a child. I saw these as away to start a new tradition, and spent Thanksgiving weekend feasting, watching football and baking and decorating Christmas cookies.

I even took the time to give Santa blue eyes with a toothpick

 

The cookies were a hit with my female co-workers and even more so my new neighbors. Before the season was up I baked at least two more batches, and maybe three, and each time I had a good looking helper, who brought more cutters, some from her childhood, along with a bottle of wine.

 

Again, some how the Ex found out, and offered to come over and play the part of an elve

 

From my Ex's point of view, every time she found out something new about my doings it appeared that I was happily moving on in life with out her and that made her even more desparate to find a way to get me back

[2.50 a gallon]

Steadfast and others who think she is cheating, but as yet that has not been proven, and until then pb is right to believe that she has not.

 

I too see the red flags, and it is right to point them out to him. But constantly harping that she is a cheater does not make it so.

 

I am reminded that my Ex fiance also flashed these same signals that I now see as cheating red flags, but I do know that she was not cheating on me when whe dumped me. She had just had it with my depression and my failing to set the wedding date.

 

And no doubt her circle of friends who saw the turmoil that she was going through helped to influence her into finally getting the balls to dump me.

[robf1971]

Steadfast and others who think she is cheating, but as yet that has not been proven, and until then pb is right to believe that she has not.QUOTE]

 

Correct, but PB has done nothing to eliminate this possibility and find out either way. If she is cheating what PB is doing currently is as useful as a chocolate teapot to rescue the relationship.

[robf1971]

Based on what exactly? Did you not read my post? There is absolutely no way she would have bothered meeting up, coming round, staying over, been affectionate if she was seeing someone else. She would have nothing to gain.

 

Ok,

 

Go read Russell 1968's posts, the whole thread, then go and read all the other stories on here. Then to go to the OM/OW thread to get into the mindset of a cheater. Then come back and tell me that it's not worth at least checking up. I say this because if she is cheating, the actions you are taking right now is like p*ssing into the wind.

 

I would also like to add that I'm trying to help you, I sincerely hope she isn't cheating and would be happy if your wife fell into your arms back in love. However I am a realist.