Anyone had a Revenge Affair?

[Richard Friedman]

Excellent post by Pat. Listen to him.

[FL510]

Thanks everyone. I know that I need to let her go. I know it is the right thing to do. She is an incredible young woman that came from a horrific, mentally, physically and sexually abusive past and is making something of herself, on her own and with very little help. I look at what she has pulled herself out of and I am in awe. My childhood looked like the Cosby show but with white people. I am scared to death that if I just dump her it will send her self esteem and current upswing in life into a death spiral. She goes back to school soon, full time at a major university here in town. I know if I break it off now she will drop her classes, and may not go back. I do love her, she knows this, but will there ever be a good time to end this? It kills me to even think about.

 

My stupid plan seemed so simple and effective. Have the affair, make sure it was sexually amazing, do everything I wanted to do, then end it, and live my life knowing I stuck it to my wife, and we are now even, and can move on. Problem is, when we play these games, there are other lives at stake. Very real feelings.

[PatFinkle]

PatFinkle.....damn. That's it. My OW wants more now, it a recent development She has hinted around at it over the last few weeks. I'm torn. A part of me wants to keep this going. A part of me wants to tell my wife and pursue a normal...bible thumping, sunshine and lollipops marriage. I just don't know....I'm not sure I am really that person now. I was before my wife dropped a load of crap on me.

 

I also don't think the OW would really like the "real" life of me. I have an exciting (from the outside looking in) job, drive a midlife crisis car, I send her pictures of my trips from all over the world....would she really like dealing with my dirty underwear, taking a kid to soccer, or vacuuming my living room? She says she would, but I really doubt it. I have never given her any false hope, never made any promises, or given time-lines .....but now she says she will wait forever, and if I never leave my wife so be it, she will still be there.

 

Do I let this run it's course? enjoy it while it lasts? end it now? damn

 

Part of the dilemma is like many men, you have a tendency to put women on a pedestal. In this case both your wife and your OW.

 

Your thought process will be much easier if you take them both off the pedestal, stop "guilting" yourself so much, and simply act in the way that you believe is in your own best self-interest.

 

Neither your wife nor your OW deserve to be on a pedestal. Your wife, for the very reason that she cheated on you, many times. Your OW, for the very reason that she has no compunction whatsoever about trying to "steal" another woman's husband. Neither is an "innocent." Neither is in need of your sacrifice of your own personal interests on their behalves.

 

Your marriage will never be sunshine and lollipops so don't hold it or yourself to that false ideal. You married a serial cheater and that victimization caused you to become a cheater as well.

 

Your OW is now trying to put pressure on you to fulfill her fantasy of the affair being something more than it is, but that's her problem, not yours.

 

If your OW wants to "wait forever" then that's up to her. Most likely as a 23 year old woman she's not really ready for a truly committed relationship and might not be for another 5 or ten years, but in the meantime....you're a lot of fun and so she justifies it with the fantasy that it can some day be more than just an affair.

 

Make no mistake, both of these women are easily capable of stabbing you in the back (i.e. finding another man to replace you) at the drop of a hat. They both have proven track records of that capability.

 

Your wife may be "reformed" but with that history she is capable of a repetition at any time. She's only 34 and in the child raising stages. When the kids get older and she puts on a few more years and perhaps a few more pounds she will be prone to a severe mid life crisis. She is a very likely candidate to be a repeat cheater within the next five to ten years. Especially as you age, hit your 50's, and perhaps slow down in the bedroom a little bit.

 

Your OW? All it will take for her to cheat on you is finding someone, preferably closer to her age, with a bigger wallet or a bigger c*ck. At age 23 she is still basically a kid. Having an affair with you is a way of playing at being "a grownup." At age 33 it is very unlikely she would want to have a husband in his 50's.

 

So continue in your marriage, continue having your affair on the side, and compartmentalize the two relationships. Make it very clear to both your wife and the OW that if they step out of line in any way or place any unreasonable demands on you in the respective relationships, they will be out the door.

 

I think you are kind of naive even after all you've been through. For all you know your wife could still be cheating on you only hiding it better. For sure your wife has to suspect you've been cheating on her with all the time and energy you've been devoting to your OW. Your OW could be seeing other guys as well---from time to time at least. Both of the women in your life are accomplished deceivers and liars and you owe them nothing.

 

It's even conceivable that your wife would be OK with your moving the OW right into the family home with you and having a poly or threesome relationship.

[FL510]

Pat, Thank you. I have read and re-read your post. I have no idea who you are or what you do, but damn. Thanks.

[PatFinkle]

Well I'm going to pipe in here.

 

OP, what you are doing is selfish and cruel! It goes without saying that you are being a selfish ass by keeping your wife in the dark about your ow and you've got some 23 yr old waiting on you and willing to take what ever crumbs you give her. You are stealing her innocence and forever changing how she will view men and relationships. She might be of legal age but 23 years is taking advantage of her youth and naivety and you are playing with her and making a fool of your wife at the same time.

 

"Innocent" 23 year old women don't f*ck married men.

[John Michael Kane]

I said her innocence and naivety, there is a difference. And no, I'm not completely excusing her, but he is being predatory here. A 23 yr old who gets involved with a mm obviously has some issues and he is taking advantage of her issues.

 

That's not being a predator nor is he a rapist in this situation and you know that. So to downplay this as if it's all his fault is incorrect. She's a grown woman, not a child. Both knew what they were getting into and nobody held a gun to their heads.

[PatFinkle]

I said her innocence and naivety, there is a difference.

 

It doesn't make a difference, in this case. These are two adults having entirely consensual sex with each other. Both are 100% responsible for their choices and actions.

 

 

And no, I'm not completely excusing her, but he is being predatory here.

 

No, he isn't. No more than she is "being predatory" here. He is a married man with kids, in his 40's, and therefore has far more to lose than she does by being involved with her.

 

 

A 23 yr old who gets involved with a mm obviously has some issues and he is taking advantage of her issues.

 

I suppose next you will want to impose a rule saying that twenty three year old women aren't allowed to have consensual sense unless the person they are having sex with meets with your approval?

[PatFinkle]

That's not being a predator nor is he a rapist in this situation and you know that. So to downplay this as if it's all his fault is incorrect. She's a grown woman, not a child. Both knew what they were getting into and nobody held a gun to their heads.

 

BB07 is trying to thread-jack and attack the OP simply because she is a former OW to a married man and wants to blame everyone but herself.

[PatFinkle]

Pat, Thank you. I have read and re-read your post. I have no idea who you are or what you do, but damn. Thanks.

 

You're welcome. You need to take much of what you read with a grain of salt because you have people with agendas like BB07 who want to thread-jack and make you, as the male in the equation, feel guilty just because you are the male. Total double standard at work.

[manup]

Pat, Thank you. I have read and re-read your post. I have no idea who you are or what you do, but damn. Thanks.

 

Dude just have some one night stands. You don't have to get all emotional.

[FL510]

Pat, yeah, I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but it did not take long for me to see that.

 

 

Manup, ha ha! that was totally my intention, and I am beginning to see the light and get back to my "roots". Thanks to those that injected a little reality.

[Kidd]

Continuing what you're doing is going to end in a train wreck. You know that, which is why you came here.

 

Personally, I recommend making drcisions of which you are proud. Any justification you had for a RA ended long ago. Now your decisions are wholly your own. One poster rationalizing your bad decisions because of someone else's bad decisions doesn't invalidate ethics in your future decisions or your need to be able to live with yourself when the house of cards comes crashing down.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Wow.

 

Okay... it's obvious that Finkle is intelligent but.... also misguided.

 

FL510 - it's all your "prerogative", but I don't see as how the road you're going down will lead you into satisfying pastures. Finkle states you should be more selfish... no, you need to be LESS selfish. SELFISH is what has put you into the mess you are in. What you should have probably done is leave your wife before getting involved with another woman... you probably should have left her once you realized you were unable to overcome her betrayal.

 

Justifying your actions because your wife committed horrible things doesn't cancel them out - there's no "even". Now you've just both committed horrible things. Do they magically disappear?

 

You just spread it around. Smear smear smear, feces everywhere.

 

Unless you're an utter sociopath, emotions are going to usher forth. DO YOU WANT TO BE a complete, selfish and inconsiderate being? If so, keep having at your "revenge" that will likely never be fulfilling... and keep continuing to hurt others in the process.

 

You don't need to put women on pedestals, but you don't need to be a self-serving schmuck either

 

What kind of role model is that, for children, by the way? Even if they somehow never catch onto anything amiss in your marriage... hmm...

 

THE RIGHT thing seems to be to LEAVE YOUR WIFE. As for the OW, you mentioned a lot of pain in her history... I don't think it's an excuse but, if you know anything about mental illness, she probably is somewhat fragile. It'll probably be a harsh lesson for her, another one, that she may or may not harness anything worthwhile from... if you do leave her. Only she can save herself, nonetheless.

 

It's probably wisest to let both women go though... tend to your children, tend to your wounds, and wait for a woman YOU CAN TRUST and who can be a good figure in your children's lives.

Edited August 21, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[dreamingoftigers]

PatFinkle.....damn. That's it. My OW wants more now, it a recent development She has hinted around at it over the last few weeks. I'm torn. A part of me wants to keep this going. A part of me wants to tell my wife and pursue a normal...bible thumping, sunshine and lollipops marriage. I just don't know....I'm not sure I am really that person now. I was before my wife dropped a load of crap on me.

 

I also don't think the OW would really like the "real" life of me. I have an exciting (from the outside looking in) job, drive a midlife crisis car, I send her pictures of my trips from all over the world....would she really like dealing with my dirty underwear, taking a kid to soccer, or vacuuming my living room? She says she would, but I really doubt it. I have never given her any false hope, never made any promises, or given time-lines .....but now she says she will wait forever, and if I never leave my wife so be it, she will still be there.

 

Do I let this run it's course? enjoy it while it lasts? end it now? damn

 

There is something so dark and terrible about serial cheating that it opens a gate inside us that is not easily closed.

 

We almost feel like the whole planet is doing it except for us.

 

It sounds like you became your wife and now cannot reconcile it with your reality.

 

You are having the wrong debate: you are trying to figure our who to BE with.

 

The debate that you need to have is with yourself and clearing up what your values are and what values you wish to pass on to your children.

 

When you define what your values are and what your mission in life actually is, the answer will become very, very apparent.

 

Then you can take action accordingly, no matter how uncomfortable.

[anne1707]

My H had an affair and then a few years later I did. Does that make my affair a revenge affair? Maybe if I wanted to deny responsibility for my actions, I would have done that. However I absolutely refused to do that. I took total responsibility for my actions and the pain it caused my H. I am an adult after all.

 

Nobody made the OP have an affair except himself. If he wants his marriage to survive he needs to end the affair now, tell his wife and (if she chooses to stay in the marriage) start MC together.

 

 

Hmm. Wonder if some of the posters who have been patting the OP on the back would have done the same with me.

[dreamingoftigers]

Pat, yeah, I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but it did not take long for me to see that.

 

 

Manup, ha ha! that was totally my intention, and I am beginning to see the light and get back to my "roots". Thanks to those that injected a little reality.

 

I think that you have decided the best way to use your own pain as a ticket to do as you wish.

 

It won't last forever, it isn't stable and you are settling for a split life without a real connection to anyone.

 

As a daughter of an unfaithful father, you can never be fully present with your children when you are taking the oxytocin-generating part if your brain and focusing it outside your family.

 

Your wife's actions do not decide or justify yours.

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh you know they wouldn't, we ladies who have a past are the lowest of low around here, according to some, anyway, but it's ok if a man does it. :D

 

Take a look on this thread and see how long one must "pay for their past."

 

It is a good thing that some people no longer believe in "an eye for an eye."

 

Some others don't even care whose eye they get, as long as they get one in return.

[John Michael Kane]

Rapist..........geez, I NEVER mentioned that word. I made my point and I stand by it and NOTHING was wrong with it.

 

Predator, rapist they're all interchangeable words. The statement of yours is wrong because both of them are adults and they knew from the start it was an affair. She wasn't taken advantage of in any way. She's more than old enough to know right from wrong.

[PatFinkle]

Yes, but OW is a woman, and that "automatically" makes her a so-called "victim" of the "predatory" male.

 

In some peoples' minds, anyway.

 

Forget the fact that the OW is 23 and unattached and in college, assuredly has many many many possible relationship options. Who does she choose? An alpha male (in her eyes), a guy with a nice car, successful career, plenty of folding money to spend on her...not some penniless raggedy male college classmate who doesn't have the financial ability nor the life experience to be able to show her a good time.

 

Forget the fact that the 23 yr old unattached OW could probably throw a rock on campus and hit a male potential partner who would be a far more appropriate relationship choice....you know, an unmarried, student bachelor? Nope, she goes ahead and not only picks a married guy, but a married guy with children, no less. A married guy with children who himself is obviously still hurting from his own wife's infidelities.

 

No, forget all those pesky, inconvenient "facts."

[PatFinkle]

Wow that is one HUGE leap between predator and rapist.

The young lady more than likely has issues of foo or self esteem, didn't the op say that.

 

You are quite funny sometimes jmk. :lmao:

 

You also described her as "innocent" and took great offense when I pointed out the obvious fact that she's anything but "innocent" and want to avoid the obvious comparisons between the OW and yourself.

 

No one is attacking you for having been an OW in a similar situation but please don't pretend not to have an extreme bias because of that history.

[John Michael Kane]

Wow that is one HUGE leap between predator and rapist.

 

The young lady more than likely has issues of foo or self esteem, didn't the op say that.

 

You are quite funny sometimes jmk. :lmao:

 

Anyone who has an affair has low self-esteem so that is a moot point. Doesn't excuse the fact that they consciously made a decision to have one.

 

So you're stating that any woman who's young and has an affair are damsels in distress, and that they were taken advantage of and stripped of all identity and confidence by some old, scary, predatory, calculating married man. HE'S the bad guy and she's just a little girl.

 

Not by a longshot, BB07.

[PatFinkle]

Oh pls..........get a grip on the agenda thing, since you obviously want to silence anyone who doesn't see it YOUR way.

 

No one tried to "silence" you at all. You are anything but a victim.

[John Michael Kane]

You also described her as "innocent" and took great offense when I pointed out the obvious fact that she's anything but "innocent" and want to avoid the obvious comparisons between the OW and yourself.

 

No one is attacking you for having been an OW in a similar situation but please don't pretend not to have an extreme bias because of that history.

 

Good post.

[PatFinkle]

In this particular situation is does sound predatory. I never said one size fits all as much as you'd like to make it seem that way.

 

You and jmk go have fun or perhaps you are one and the same.

 

 

No you simply declared the male in the situation to be "predatory" based on gender rather than on facts.

[dreamingoftigers]

Self-esteem does dictate the choices of many, many people.

Including the OP.

 

Not very moot and probably the crux of this whole thing.