I love you but I don't like you

[2sunny]

I DON'T BEG. IN FACT, SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE HE LEFT THE HOUSE, I SPECIFICALLY TOLD HIM I WOULD NOT BEG HIM TO STAY - IF HE WANTED TO LEAVE, THEN HE SHOULD LEAVE. IN ADDITION, BEFORE HE MOVED OUT OF THE HOUSE AND WHILE HE WAS ON A TRIP AND CALLED ME, I TOLD HIM HE NEEDS TO MAKE A DECISION BEFORE HE COMES HOME AS TO WHETHER OR NOT HE'LL LIVE IN OUR HOME AND IF HE CHOOSES TO LIVE IN OUR HOME, THEN THINGS WILL HAVE TO CHANGE.

he lies by saying he may want to come back - but shows zero effort that it may happen. MY GUT IS SAYING THAT HE WON'T COME BACK - AS TO WHETHER OR NOT HE'S LYING ABOUT THAT, I DON'T KNOW

 

you may not be begging - but you are a sitting duck just waiting for his decision. he's decided! his actions tell you he doesn't intend to be connected with you! if he were even TRYING - he'd be calling, setting up date nights, getting reconnected on a highly emotional level with you - BUT HE'S NOT! that tells EVERYTHING he won't say!

 

his decision to come back? why does HE hold all THAT power? EVEN IF he DECIDED to come back - your boundary doesn't scream "bring my healthy, loving husband when you re enter the home!" set a NEW and IMPROVED solid boundary for yourself - or you may just get what you previously asked for - a man in your house that treats you terribly.

 

he's lying... fo sho! bet money on it! he says he's not interested in his OW - but ALL his actions say he is spending time and energy focused on someone other than you and this so called marriage... IF you can even call it that.

[itllgetbetter]

steen719: Thanks for your positive comments. I've been trying "Plan A" as it's called on marriagebuilders so that, perhaps and hopefully, my H will realize what he'll be missing out on should he continue on this course.

 

As for me feeling so much hope with every "little" thing he does - that's correct - but more accurately, I feel "too much hope" with every little thing he does. For example, when he called to say thanks for taking him to the airport, I thought that was very nice of him to do - for most people though, it's just a courtesy to say "thanks".

 

When he called upon arrival at his destination and said he missed me and wished I was there, again, I thought that was very nice of him to do (although that's the sort of thing he would have done if he'd gone away on a business trip), but, under the circumstances, and having received no further phone calls or an e-mail, they were just empty/hollow words.

 

When I dropped him off at the airport, he said he'd call me when he gets back. Obviously if he takes days to call, he isn't too anxious to speak with me. A not so subtle hint.

 

As for H's blaming us for their guilt (and vice versa for the BS's who are H's), I'm convinced that if something catastrophic occurred in the world, my H would blame me for that too since I'm to blame for pretty much everything going wrong.

 

Interestingly though, I was out this afternoon and a gentleman I know whose daughter got a divorce after being M 20 years told me that her H was a serial cheater, and this went on for the last 7 years of their M (when her parents noticed her losing lots of weight and asked her about it, she'd say she was on a diet rather than attribute it up to stress). His daughter knew about the affairs and tried to get him to stop - for 7 years. When H was leaving, he blamed her for everything, including not naming their daughter the EXACT name of his mother, but, a close variation of it. And, two years after they split, the H wants W and kids back. W said no way.

 

I've done the friend analogy in the past on myself. I've even commented to friends that if I had a friend who was telling me what I've been going through, I'd tell the friend to move on (which to me demonstrates that I haven't I do have an appreciation of how crazy this situation is). On that note, I've had a Dr. Phil image in my head - if H and I were interviewed on the show, I can imagine audience shaking their heads in disbelief/rolling their eyes, looking confused, etc. at what's gone on.

 

I want to move on - but, as I've explained previously, I don't want to feel as if there's something I could have done but didn't do if there was the slightest hope for reconciliation, so, it's not too much longer that I'll be waiting around - yes, waiting around - not good.

 

Of course there's the possiblity that H will say he's not yet decided what to do, in which case, I'd say that I gave him the time that he'd asked for and I've got to move on.

[Steen719]

Well, I do know about staying too long and wanting to make sure that I have done everything I can in case that one thing will make the difference. It has not for me, but the last few days, H has been asking what it would take for me to stay. Unfortunately, when pressed, he still blames me for overreacting (among other things) and basically has few suggestions for himself. I think I would be crazy if I thought that would be different from what it always has been.

 

Your H must not realize how fortunate he is to have a woman waiting for him while he decides if he wants her or the OW, or neither. I don't think I could do that and I sure hope you don't do it for long.

 

I wish you the best, I really do.

[2sunny]

I want to move on - but, as I've explained previously, I don't want to feel as if there's something I could have done but didn't do if there was the slightest hope for reconciliation, so, it's not too much longer that I'll be waiting around - yes, waiting around - not good.

 

Of course there's the possiblity that H will say he's not yet decided what to do, in which case, I'd say that I gave him the time that he'd asked for and I've got to move on.

 

he's not uncomfortable. you've provided him the leisure of his own timeline... people rarely change - unless they are damn uncomfortable - then they MIGHT get motivated to change!

 

 

 

if it were me? i'd tell him you've changed your mind - you're tired of him making NO effort to show evidence of becoming a decent husband, partner and lover. THEN - i'd call his OW and tell her she can have him! that ought to make it clear to him that what he's offered you is nothing - and you expected more than nothing!

 

 

here's a formula for change... it's targeted at jobs - but apply it to the M and you will see that he's not motivated to change because he's comfortable the way it is...

 

 

One of the simplest yet most powerful change models I’ve ever used is the Change Equation, developed by Richard Beckhard and David Gleicher. Try whipping this model out the next time your team is planning or discussing a major change; it never fails to focus a team on what needs to be done and stimulate some lively discussion!

 

Here’s the model (picture from George Ambler’s The Practice of Leadership blog):

 

 

Three factors must be present for meaningful organizational change to take place. These factors are:

D = Dissatisfaction with the status quo;

V = Vision of what is possible;

F = First, concrete steps that can be taken towards the vision.

R = If any of these factors are missing or weak, then you’re going to get resistance.

 

The model has two very practical applications:

 

Before the change:

When planning a major change, planning teams need to make sure all three elements are built into their plans.

 

During the change:

Use it as trouble-shooting tool for figuring out why people are resisting the change.

 

Here is some additional information on the three change elements for supervisors and managers to use:

 

D = Dissatisfaction with the Present:

• We must be clear why things need to change

• We need to articulate why it is unacceptable and undesirable to conduct business in the same way

• If we, and our people, are not dissatisfied with the present situation, then there is no motivation to change.

• Managers and Supervisors need to provide your organizational cases for change here. You should include the perspectives of the three publics:

--Shareholder Perspective (i.e. market share, revenue, cost of goods)

--Customer Perspective (i.e. customer satisfaction, quality)

--Employee Perspective (i.e. employee satisfaction, turnover)

 

V = Vision of the Future:

• It is critical the employees fully understand and can picture

--our future as an organization and

--their place in the new organization.

• Supervisors/Managers need to share their vision for the future organization:

--Share where the organization is headed to remove/reduce dissatisfiers

--Make sure you describe the future in a way that is very clear and easy for anyone in the organization to envision.

 

 

 

you being passive isn't helping HIM to get motivated to quit his fence sitting.

 

you have a brain - YOU get to decide what's best for you. waiting another month wastes time in your life that you COULD spend already knowing IF you are to stay married - or not.

 

tell him you've decided - NO MORE WAITING! no reason to wait! decide today! if he doesn't decide to change everything in the marriage TODAY - it's over!

[andyg99]

tell him you've decided - NO MORE WAITING! no reason to wait! decide today! if he doesn't decide to change everything in the marriage TODAY - it's over!

 

great advice - OP, please listen to this!! right now your acting like the overweight person who says I'll start the diet on Monday or I'll start after the holidays, we all know that is a lame excuse and that person is not going to change... your waiting for him to decide is just like that, don't wait, DO IT NOW, YOU DECIDE!!! You have the strength to do this!

 

BTW, you deciding is the only way your marriage would ever work... I predict if you stay the course he'll come back when he feels like it, nothing will change and you'll go through this again... if you make the decision to move on he'll either move on himself or if he wants back he'll have to agree to YOUR terms... it's a win/win! you waiting is not about honoring his space or some agreement to wait until Oct, your waiting is about fear and denial....

[itllgetbetter]

VERY quick update: H called from airport - I let it go to vm a couple of times:). But then I listened to his messages and he said he wanted to stop by the house. Returned his call and he's on his way over.

[2sunny]

VERY quick update: H called from airport - I let it go to vm a couple of times:). But then I listened to his messages and he said he wanted to stop by the house. Returned his call and he's on his way over.

 

oh goodie!!!

 

he says jump and YOU say how high? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

 

i wish you'd find a solid, healthy boundary - instead of being thrown around by all his requests and demands.

[andyg99]

VERY quick update: H called from airport - I let it go to vm a couple of times:). But then I listened to his messages and he said he wanted to stop by the house. Returned his call and he's on his way over.

 

great, make sure you tell him you are sick of his BS and you are taking your life back, tell him if he walks out the door without a decison to either make your marriage work (on your terms) or end it that you will begin the process of filing on Monday... that's what you should do IMO...

[2sunny]

great, make sure you tell him you are sick of his BS and you are taking your life back, tell him if he walks out the door without a decison to either make your marriage work (on your terms) or end it that you will begin the process of filing on Monday... that's what you should do IMO...

 

since it's now been hours - she's probably giving him what he showed up for = sex... or should i say sex without any indication of him being kind and loving to her for the long term...

[andyg99]

since it's now been hours - she's probably giving him what he showed up for = sex... or should i say sex without any indication of him being kind and loving to her for the long term...

 

I'm sad you may be right... all we can do is dish out advice based on our life experiences, in the end everyone will have to learn the hard way I guess....

[2sunny]

there's no way to help someone when they won't take any action that helps themselves.

 

the self loathing gets old... OP - YOU are doing this to yourself... especially at this point. i have to believe you are a woman that enjoys pain... otherwise you would have realized how unhealthy it is to sit and wait for your husband to "see if and when he may get tired of his OW"

 

you don't have a marriage - you don't even have a friend in him - no friend treats heir friends that way.

[2sunny]

any update... what did he say? his reason for rushing you to see him now?

[itllgetbetter]

The reason I didn't update this sooner is because I didn't want H walking in on me typing a post.

 

First off, I thought it was nice of H to call from the airport to say he'd like to stop by the house and see me.

 

Briefly: Friday he told me about his trip & gave me a book on titled something like "Being a Wife". He also got himself the book titled "Being a Husband". He saw a book on my bedside table titled 'His Needs Her Needs; How to Affair-Proof your M". H commented "I'm not having an A". Had dinner and went to sleep (jet lag for H).

 

Saturday: H went out and got us coffee in the morning (I liked that - not something he did too often previously), spent some time talking about our situation and H said he'd like to give MC a try - this is a positive step since he's previously rejected it a number of times, both while living at home and since he's moved out.

 

He said he'd like us each to have an individual session privately with MC before a session together. He also thought that we should become involved in two hobbies separately since most of our time is spent working. We went for a walk in the evening and he said he'd been lonely this past summer.

 

Initially he'd planned on going back to his place Sat. night but early Sat. afternoon, he said could stay until Monday morning if I was able to drive him to his place early in the morning.

 

Sunday: Golf, picnic lunch, read by the lake, home for dinner.

 

Monday morning: stopped by his place for him to drop of his suitcases and he returned to the car and said his place "didn't feel like home." So of course I'm VERY happy about that comment.

 

And, he only looked at his BB once all weekend, so, it wouldn't appear that he was in touch with OW, which you might recall he assured me a couple of weeks ago that he wasn't interested in her.

 

He also made it a point of telling me about two business trips he's going on in the next two weeks, which, he didn't have to do. And yes, they're legitimate business trips.

 

All in all, it was a nice relaxing weekend and H was very nice. And no, he didn't show up for sex since he was jet lagged.

 

Steen719: According to H, OW isn't in the picture so, apparently there's no decision to make between me or her.

 

andyg99: I'm going to stay the course for the time being and, if he comes back, things will change.

 

So now I'm thinking that perhaps what was initialy an EA is over.

[ShatteredReality]

Keep us posted - esp once you start IC/MC.

[LifesontheUp]

Looks like he is making a start itllgetbetter. Don't forget not to lose yourself in doing everything you can for him so that he's happy. Remember YOU are very important too. When you feel ready, start setting some boundares that YOU are comfortable with.

 

Good luck.

[2sunny]

Looks like he is making a start itllgetbetter. Don't forget not to lose yourself in doing everything you can for him so that he's happy. Remember YOU are very important too. When you feel ready, start setting some boundares that YOU are comfortable with.

 

Good luck.

 

this - yes! this is about YOU being happy - no matter what HE is or isn't doing/not doing.

 

I'm going to stay the course for the time being and, if he comes back, things will change.

 

what is THAT course? is THAT course for YOU? it should be!

 

and things will change? what are YOU doing to invoke all the change? you seem to be doing what HE suggests... this IS about YOU... what are YOU doing to bring about the change YOU deserve/want/need! tell him exactly what YOU need to change in order to be happy! then settle for nothing less!

 

so FROM YOU - what is this course - and what changes are YOU implementing for YOU?

 

what are your solid boundaries that will change everything?

[andyg99]

100% agree with sunny - list those boundaries, write them down and read them to him... if it scares him away then it wouldn't have worked anyway...

[andyg99]

The reason I didn't update this sooner is because I didn't want H walking in on me typing a post.

 

.

 

actually you should be able to sit at your computer and type whatever you want even if he is sitting next to you... if he asked you what you were doing you could have just said... "I'm updating my thread on a divorce support website, you have hurt me very much and I have gotten some great support when I needed it" you get what I'm saying, nothing should be hidden, period. He should know how much he hurt you...

[itllgetbetter]

Andyg99: I didn't want my H to read this thread in part because I mention seeing some of his notes and getting legal advice.

 

I've got an appoint with MC for my session of IC tomorrow afternoon.

[2sunny]

Andyg99: I didn't want my H to read this thread in part because I mention seeing some of his notes and getting legal advice.

 

I've got an appoint with MC for my session of IC tomorrow afternoon.

 

hiding your truth isn't helping to heal what's real... that the M is in crisis yet you two both pretend by not being honest.

 

put your truth out there - that is when things CAN begin to change - otherwise you two will be back together with the same set of circumstances as before = the pretending...

 

say out loud what you aren't happy with - and EXACTLY what must change for things to improve.

[itllgetbetter]

Had my IC session of MC this afternoon - I felt better after it. MC thought things were looking better now than they were months ago, in part because H spent this past weekend at our house. MC is going to try to arrange an IC session with my H for next week.

 

You might recall that I'd been suggesting MC to my H since last Januray and he wasn't interested, but then this past weekend he suggested going to it. So, here's to hoping it works out.

[2sunny]

seems your H is still calling the shots. things are still out of balance because you haven't yet determined a solid boundary.

 

did he admit and understand WHY he cheated - pr became SO interested in this OW? does he know what can keep him from ever DOING that again? seems not...

 

and the counseling - if HE wanted an appt for counseling - HE would be on that phones making his own appointment... and it would have been DAYS AGO!

 

when men want to get something done - they DO IT! he's got you back under his thumb again - don't expect much changed behavior from him at this point... he's not uncomfortable enough to invoke change... you took him right back without having him repair what needs to be fixed - should have been requiring all this before jumping up and down just because he decided to pay attention to you for a few days - and express empty promises.

 

you have done things out of order... HE should be doing a TON of work on HIMSELF before you agreed to give the M another chance... you lost the opportunity to get him DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY!

 

expect to live with the same entitled, demanding, mean spirited man you invited back in. and keep in mind - he's THAT man who also lies now.

[itllgetbetter]

2sunny: I haven't "taken him back" - he's still living in an apartment and I'm living at home.

 

He hasn't said whether or not he's going to return home. I'd like to give the M another chance, which is why we're going to go to MC. As far as expecting to live with the "same entitled ... man ...", I don't know whether he's returning home but if he does, I think we both realize that things have to change.

 

I know he had an EA with the OW. I don't know for certain that it was a PA. Maybe I'm kidding myself since I think he's rented an apartment in the same building as her. However, when he saw the book 'His Needs Her Needs; How to Affair-Proof your M" on my nighttable (as per my post of September 12), he commented "I'm not having an A". Hopefully that's true.

 

Again, I want my M to work and I'm doing my best for that to happen. That he suggested going to MC was a big step since he'd been rejecting the idea since last January.

[2sunny]

the concern lies in the fact that you two don't recognize his connection with this OW as an affair.

 

whatever it is/was - it was enough for him to disconnect emotionally and mentally from you - and to start paying enough of HIS focused attention on the other woman... even to the point of moving to the same building where she lives. you don't have his whole story - and may never have his truth - and that in itself is a BIG issue... because how are YOU supposed to forgive what you don't yet know/understand? there is much he needs to get honest about!

 

call it what you will - but in my world that is an affair... whether he admits it or not.

 

glad there is progress for you two - hope HE makes the effort and calls for the appointment.

[ShatteredReality]

Hopefully at some point during all of this he will see the mistakes that he's made. If he doesn't he won't ever do a thing to make up for the pain you've gone through during all of this and resentment will build because of that.

 

I am glad you're starting to see a possible positive outcome though -

 

One thing I did key into though...and I am probably just reading into things here...but he said "I'm not having an A" in the present tense...if he's coming back to you then he probably isn't - Anymore. If he was he'd still be out playing and not trying to work to come home at all. Just a thought.