I love you but I don't like you

[2sunny]

Eh..no problem..but now you know. In the mean time, him having no phone because he didn't pay the bill while stating it's not that hard a thing to do...well, that is now on him..time to learn to stand on his own two feet, don't ya think?

 

not if you allow him to have unacceptable behavior and act as if it's normal... for all you know - he left his on and shut yours off... you have left yourself, once again at the mercy of him acting with decency - and he's not acting one bit decent to YOU!

 

Having little or no boundaries is pointless because it opens you up to disrespect and you cannot have a healthy relationship or feel good about yourself. It’s like saying “You’re so special, I’m giving you a special pass!” Meanwhile, you’re feeling pretty unspecial.

 

Boundaries teach people how to treat you and what to expect and they represent your value system, your level of self-esteem, the type of interactions you’ll engage in, and your limits that signal when it’s time to opt out regardless of what your libido or what you believe your heart is telling you.

Baggagereclaim.com

 

Boundaries are what we implement to show ourselves self love. When we respect ourselves, we have boundaries of what behavior we will put up with from others without overstepping their boundaries. If they have healthy boundaries as well, there should not be a problem in a mutually respectful

relationship. If their boundaries are self-serving or non- existent you will know it by their behavior when you implement your boundaries of how you should be treated and they rebel against them.

 

You implemented a boundary of self respect and self love..."I should be honored and cherished as your wife and I feel as if that has not been happening lately." His reaction, you are being arrogant and unreasonable. Why, because he can and you allow him to overstep other boundaries that are just as important.

 

Yes, he is depressed, conflicted and confused...but still not a valid reason to

overstep your boundaries and blame you for things he had just as much control over. Yes, he probably wants to drop counseling because the counselor hit a nerve. That's good for him actually.

 

When I had that discussion with the divorce busting coach, the goal was to get my ex back home...granted at that time we thought it was just MLC...I was to defer any decision making, not discuss the marriage etc, not be defensive if he brought stuff up...just listen...not take blame, process. Of course the first thing he tried to do was blame his unhealthy obsessions on me...those were things that were there before I knew him...but I did not point them out nor argue...I just listened and he felt listened to. My only response to him was that I was sorry he felt that way. HE felt that way....he is entitled to his feelings even if his perspective is not in agreement with yours.

 

Stop explaining when he throws stuff out there...it just makes you look defensive....You can listen to what he says and accept his feedback without personalizing it. Yes, it is personal but you already know that it takes two people to play the role of the things he says...he will ultimately see his role in this but not by you reacting to it by defending your side. It goes against the grain if what you feel...but the goal is to get to a common viewpoint of both of your perspectives to get to resolution without stepping on each others boundaries. Neither of you need to be a doormat.

 

Healthy boundaries, what do they look like?

 

Ability to adapt and change when it is NEEDED and APPROPRIATE

Not vacillating wildly according to what is happening around them

Able to say "no" when appropriate

Able to accept constructive criticism or feedback without personalizing it

Able to accept "no" from others without taking it personally

Able to stand up for themselves

Know how they feel, what they think and how they behave

Take responsibility for meeting their own needs

Take responsibility for their emotions, their ideas and their behavior

 

 

THIS is VERY very good!!! i don't say that often - good work trippi!!!

 

 

This was nice to hear.

 

Met a woman by chance earlier this evening (nail salon. TMI?).

 

Her H left her 3 years ago for OW. About a year after leaving, he tells her he wants to get back together and continues to do so (he'd drop the OW like a "hot potato" is the way he's put it). H also tells his kids he'd like to be back with their mom.

 

She said she spent the first year after he left her in the house, didn't go out except when necessary, only slept 4 hours/night, max/gained 30 lbs, cried a lot, spent a lot of time believing the her H's negative comments about her, mind always on him & the situation, etc.

 

She told me that there's "no way" she'd ever get back together with him as she's grown so much as a person in the time he's been gone.

 

Gave her a brief bio of my H's OW, she started laughing and said that one day he'll realize his mistake, want to come back but I'll tell him "no" because I will have moved on, to which I started laughing and said "I can't see the day where I'll tell him I won't take him back."

 

Also, I'm convinced that H's forever convinced himself of all my so called negative traits that I'll be one of the few people in the history of situations such as this whose H will NOT come back & say he's made a mistake and wants back.

 

Exchanged phone no.'s so I'm sure we'll get together in the future - and she's agreeable to meeting a guy I know for a blind date.

 

 

this is what a healthy woman looks like - that has a healthy boundary.

 

 

you have much work to do. all your "old behavior" didn't make things work in your marriage - so start doing everything differently, for YOU! start thinking of yourself! start respecting yourself! and start telling him to STOP IT when he is disrespecting and disregarding you with his words. START treating yourself with respect!

 

stop worrying about HIM - he's not worrying about YOU! and when he does engage - do not respond - because he sees that as an open invitation to criticize and blame you. if he does this - just say... "i see things differently than you" - with no further explanation... you aren't owning what he says and you aren't admitting it or apologizing either!

 

when you tell him to stop speaking to you in a way that blames YOU for how HE feels - is when HE may have to take a look at what he's been doing backwards.

 

in the meantime - don't DO a thing for him. being nice while he treats you poorly won't help him to understand that you respect yourself - quite the contrary. so - don't take him to the airport - simply say - "i couldn't call cuz my phone was off - so i assume you made other arrangements"

 

stay busy - doing things that make you happy! get busy living and learning how to be happy without him!

[LifesontheUp]

itllgetbetter - you're a stronger person than me. To be perfectly honest, I couldn't put up with my xH telling me all the things I did wrong, putting me down. Why should I listen to that, after all he was no angel either - probably like your husband isn't one too.

 

Why don't you set some boundaries? If he starts complaining or saying things you have done or are doing wrong, tell him to leave. Be firm, he's not going to change if you just sit there and take it. He can come back once he's stopped being a total pr!ck.

 

I know you are worried he will never come back. But as he is now, he doesn't sound like he's worth taking back anyway.

 

Hugs as I know this is hard.

[trippi1432]

not if you allow him to have unacceptable behavior and act as if it's normal... for all you know - he left his on and shut yours off... you have left yourself, once again at the mercy of him acting with decency - and he's not acting one bit decent to YOU!

 

You know, that does beg a new question....IGB - what other things have you left up to him to pay that could put you at his mercy? Electricity, insurance, credit cards that your name is involved, loans....anything that could ruin your credit or leave you without? If so, you might need to check on these things to see if they are being paid and think about getting them in your name.

[itllgetbetter]

Trippi's post #99: I'll try the "I'm sorry you feel that way" line at my earliest opportunity. I'm betting though that he won't like it and will come back with "You disagree with what I've said?"

 

According to the Five Love Languages, neither of us was fulfilling the others needs. Turns out, I like "words of affirmation" which is perhaps why I'm so sensitive about the verbal negativity.

 

No, I don't believe I "drove him into the arms of another woman". What's interesting is that my H has said over the years that his dad doesn't take responsibility for his actions and always thinks someone else is to blame. My H, in this current domestic situation, is not taking any responsibility for his actions because as he sees it, I "drove him into the arms of another woman", which is what his dad was getting at when he asked my H "which came first, the bad M and then the OW, or the OW and then the bad M?" It seems trite to say "two wrongs don't make a right", but, to me, it's irrelevant which came first.

 

"MLC" - sorry about that - I looked at it and thought it was familiar, looked at it later and still wasn't getting it. I should have that one down since I'm convinced my H's suffering from it. In fact, a friend of mine is of the opinion that even if it doesn't work out with my H and OW (I just did a bit of a double take and am still surprised by this situation - don't think I've mentioned before that there's only been one D in my large extended family - a cousine who's H cheated on her), my H won't come back because OW's "stirred in him feelings and desires he didn't know he had/hasn't felt in a while."

 

At which point I'm wondering what's more humbling, to be left for OW or to be left for no one else.

 

I'll pick up the book Runaway Husbands: The Abandoned Wife's Guide to Recovery and Renewal as you've recommended.

 

On the issue of being a good wife (I'm obviously VERY sensitve about that point!), I recall that just over a year ago, H went out with a guy he works with whose girlfriend "didn't like" cooking, doing laundry, etc - anything domestic. She did, however, have a REALLY great body because she'd spend 2 hours a day in the gym.

 

She'd get home from work at least 2 hours earlier than the guy (they're actually now M), but, because she didn't like cooking, the guy would often pick up take out for dinner. She didn't pay for ANY household expenses pre-M, the excuse being she was paying down student loans. However, she could go shopping and spend over $1,000/trip on new clothes on various trips to the mall.

 

When my H pointed out to him that maybe he was being used, his response was "girls of her generation don't do what your wife does for you". So, there was a time when my H recognized that I was a good wife.

 

I'll respond to the rest of the posts later today.

Edited August 24, 2011 by itllgetbetter

[2sunny]

I'll try the "I'm sorry you feel that way" line at my earliest opportunity.

 

in MY world - this is completely backwards!

 

I don't apologize for how SOMEONE ELSE feels! ever! i can't MAKE someone else FEEL a certain way... I OWN HOW I FEEL... and I state what that is (my truth).

 

if it were me - i would engage as little as possible - only responding to those kind of comments with "thanks for telling me" or "i don't see things the same as you do right now".

 

be HONEST! stop owning HIS bad behavior like it's yours to own - that is HIS, not yours.

 

when you stop owning how HE feels - you may be able to "see" and process how you actually DO feel yourself!

 

 

your emotions are so tied to how HE is feeling/not feeling - i get the idea that you're not even sure how you MAY feel.

 

stepping back - may give you a little bit of room to start understanding that YOU are an individual - and have the right to feel whatever way YOU feel, given the circumstances.

 

if it were me... i'd feel mad and angry at HIM, HIS behavior, his ability to blame shift onto you. yes - YOU have every right to be darn mad! and you should be telling him exactly how YOU feel - being honest with him and allowing HIM to understand what a dork he's actually being to YOU! start getting honest! he's acting like an a$$; and he should know it!

 

but YOU are allowing him to act like an a$$ to YOU - so he does it even more! stop allowing him to DO that to YOU!!!

[trippi1432]

Trippi's post #99: I'll try the "I'm sorry you feel that way" line at my earliest opportunity. I'm betting though that he won't like it and will come back with "You disagree with what I've said?"

 

If he says that, then he IS looking to put you on the defensive and start an argument...recognize the behavior. Learn to deflect it. "You disagree with what I've said?" "No, I don't agree or disagree; but I resolve to move forward with my life...with you or without you."

 

Keep in mind that it is not only his decision to come back home, it's your decision too in accepting him back in his current state. You have just as much power to change the outcome as he does. During this time of discovery, you need to analyze what made the marriage unhappy for you as well...what would you have liked to have changed, how would you like to have been treated, what could have been different for you both to reach a better level of happiness. Things are NOT just on his terms, you have every right to define your own boundaries to be happy.

 

According to the Five Love Languages, neither of us was fulfilling the others needs. Turns out, I like "words of affirmation" which is perhaps why I'm so sensitive about the verbal negativity.

 

How much of that was present when times were good? The thing about Carol's story on that forum is that she also discovered what was not acceptable as her husband went off to "find himself". The 180 is not just about being complacent to get him back, it is also designed to help you grow and cope as well.

 

No, I don't believe I "drove him into the arms of another woman". What's interesting is that my H has said over the years that his dad doesn't take responsibility for his actions and always thinks someone else is to blame. My H, in this current domestic situation, is not taking any responsibility for his actions because as he sees it, I "drove him into the arms of another woman", which is what his dad was getting at when he asked my H "which came first, the bad M and then the OW, or the OW and then the bad M?" It seems trite to say "two wrongs don't make a right", but, to me, it's irrelevant which came first.

 

Family background is important...and realizing that you cannot control nor change him...he has to recognize his behavior and want to change it or follow in the footsteps that were already laid out for him. I know this one first-hand.

 

2Sunny - The part about saying "I'm sorry you feel that way" is neither owning his accusations or validating them...it's not an apology for what he is throwing at her, it is an apology that it's his opinion.

 

IGB has stated that she wants her husband back home and work on the marriage...there are boundaries and then there are brick walls. The brick walls may come later when she really has to protect herself.

 

2Sunny - We are saying the same things....just implementing them differently.

[2sunny]

a woman of strength would call him and ask him why the phone is off... have you done that? no excuses - call him, if needed from someone else's phone.

[itllgetbetter]

2sunny's post #101: Re staying busy: I've made plans for Friday night & Sat. morning and possibly lunch tomorrow - also had lunch with a friend from the office today who'd been away on mat leave. When she asked about H, I said something like "he's great" and quickly changed the topic. I've only discussed this with two friends at the office and one suggested not telling anyone in case H decides to come back and I'm still wearing my wedding and engagement rings.

 

Lifesontheup post #102: re being a stronger person than you - I'll write a separate post when I've finished this that will convince you you're wrong. Yes, I need to set boundaries AND stick to them.

 

Trippi's post #103: re other things I've left for him to pay: H suggested and I agreed that during this period of separation, he'll live off his paycheck and I'll live off mine (he earns between 3-4 x what I earn but he's paying rent on the furnished condo). Various insurance premiums get taken out of his bank account and I'm paying for the home expenses (I got legal advice on this and was told that since house is in my name and I'm living in it, he doesn't have to pay any expenses for it).

 

We shared a credit card that I'm the primary holder on but he got his own credit card this past June/July. I haven't cancelled his card that I'm the primary holder on. Only his gym membership is going through on that and he'll reimburse me for that. I was waiting until October to find out where we stand and if he says he's not coming back, I'll cancel his card that's on my account. He's paid me previously for expenses that were put on our joint card during the period he was waiting for his own card.

 

Cell phone's now working.

 

2sunny post #105: re not knowing how I feel: You're correct - my feelings vacillate throughout the day. I can go from sad, to angry to indifferent within hours.

 

WRT telling him how I feel: I haven't done this too much because I thought that if he's able to convince himself of completely incorrect factual information, this wouldn't do ANY good, other than perhaps make me temporarily feel better. A silly example of this is what I put in post #15 re my gray hair.

 

Since he's in his "affair fog", he's not going to comprehend any of what he's done. In addition, I know he's lied about various matters. I figured that the less opportunity I give him to lie/gaslight, the better.

 

Trippi's post #106: I understand that it's not his decision alone on whether to come home. For example, if he were to say he'll come home but will continue to see OW with the purpose of trying to woo her, that's not acceptable.

 

Re what made the M unhappy for me: it was that I sensed that my H was interested in OW and was distracted by her and tried to impress her at every opportunity.

 

As for how I would have liked to be treated: With respect and to be appreciated for my contribution to the M. He used to do both until last October (which, incidentally, he previously asked me when I noticed a change in him, so I told him it was last October. This past Sunday, when I referred to things changing in October, he said that he didn't want to discuss timeframes - it struck me as odd that he'd previously been interested in the timeframe but now didn't want to make any reference to it).

 

Verbal negativity: that'd happen when he was stressed about work or if nagged him about submitting an expense report (that I'd prepare - he'd have to look it over, sign it and give it to the bookkeeper - after I gave it to him, I'd wait a week and ask him if he's had a chance to look it over, if he hadn't, I'd wait another week and ask again, then wait 5 days and if still nothing, ask again after 5 more days) for him to be reimbursed so that we could pay the credit card bill, which I always paid in full.

 

I told him back in March or so what wasn't acceptable re verbal negativity and since then, he's mostly complied, and in some cases, has said something and then asked whether or not that fell into the "no zone".

 

I've read about 15-20 pages "Runaway Husbands" - I don't fit items 1-3 on p. 11 (ie., H being attentive, H never saying he was unhappy and blurting out that M is over during a mundane conversation) but items 4-10, unfortunately, are accurate in my situation. It's proving to be a good read. Thanks for recommending it.

 

Which brings me to a related point. When my H asks what I've been busy doing, I don't answer: "Reading lots of self help books such as Runaway Husbands: The Abandoned Wife's Guide to Recovery and Renewal", participating in an on-line chat room about the demise of my M, not sleeping well, etc." which is how I spend a fair bit of my time, but, I wouldn't admit that to him.

 

2sunny's post #107: I didn't call him to tell him about phone not working since:

 

a) I didn't want to give him an opportunity to be rude to me; and

b) I RARELY use the cell phone as I'm often in the office or at home and have phones there too.

[trippi1432]

At this point IGB....you deserve an "atta girl" Good progress. :bunny:

[itllgetbetter]

PLEASE don't give me too hard a time over this one - that's already been done by a friend who said "you're just hurting yourself, you're letting him upset you, etc." HOWEVER, it's not ALL bad!!! Try to read this without judging it until the end.

 

This afternoon I decided I'd be indifferent during the airport drop-off.

 

Finished work, had hair blowdried and re-applied make-up (sorry to all the male LS members for the aforementioned info) to ensure that I looked good. Picked H up from his office and he said within seconds of entering car that I looked very good (he said this about a half dozen times during car ride). About a minute later, he said he liked what I was wearing (something that wasn't black since another of his complaints was that I wore too much black - which is also something friends and family have said too). Then he asks what I've got planned after I drop him off at airport.

 

Me: "excuse me?"

 

H: "You heard me - where are you going after you drop me off?" (Said in a curious, not controlling way)

 

Me: "what do you mean?"

 

H: "you're all dressed up (which I wasn't as it's something I'd wear to the office). What are you doing later tonight?"

 

I wave my hand in a "whatever" gesture, shake my head and continue driving. A couple of minutes later, he tries to do a fist bump, I ask why and he says something like: "it's good you're enjoying yourself." This reminded me of what I wrote in post #39 which was "really, what kind of world are we living in when a H asks his wife if she has any "dates!" So I figure he's saying this to alleviate the guilt over what he's doing.

 

He'd mentioned previously that he was taking the "nice" car which we jointly own to have sone body work done as he damaged it in June. I asked him if took it in and he says: "isn't that what I told you I'd do?" (Said in a "what business of yours is it" tone).

 

I ask where the car's being fixed, he doesn't want to answer, I explain that if something happens to him on this trip, I'll need to know where the car is as it's in both our names, he gets an "are you crazy"/disgusted look on his face, I don't say anything but give a look of "I'm waiting for an answer", and then he gives me the address of where it's at and the salesman's name.

 

Arrive at airport, he delays getting out of car a bit, kisses me on both cheeks, then lips (quickly), chat some more, he tells me he's packed the "Five Love Languages" that I asked him the night he moved out to read (at some point back in June when I'd asked him if he'd had a chance to look at the book, he asked if I'm assigning him "homework"), kisses me on lips again (not quite as quickly; hey, I'm a woman and in my current domestic situation, I overanalyze EVERYTHING!), says he'll call me when he gets back then leaves.

 

I managed not to say "I love you." (I know it's crazy to feel that way BUT, I didn't say it. Baby steps.)

 

All he saw of me tonight was someone who's confident and somewhat indifferent.

 

Pull away from airport, burst into tears and cried most of the way home because one of the things I enjoyed doing most with my H was travelling (as many people would) with him. Which reminded me of the closing line someone on LS uses (don't recall name) which says something like: "no man is worth your tears and the one who is won't make you cry."

 

Get home and think to myself it'd be nice if H called and left msg thanking me for taking him to airport, but, he doesn't usually do things like that, so, don't get your hopes up.

 

Fifteen min. later, H calls and leaves msg saying thanks for taking him to the airport and that I looked nice.

 

He calls and leaves two more messages that plane's delayed and says he wanted to speak with me.

 

He calls again at 11:45 pm tonight and I pick up phone (hey, I let 3 of his calls go to vm) and chat with him. He asks at least 6 times where I was tonight, if I was on a date and who I went on a date with. I just kept changing the subject until finally he says "you don't want to answer?" I say: "It's personal". He says: "Well you ask me personal questions."

 

I change the subject again, and ask him what he's going to tell his aunt, he says "the truth". "Which is what?" I ask. "You know the truth" he says. I make some small talk and say I should let him go.

 

I forgot to mention an important fact about this trip. H's staying with a REALLY nice aunt of his, who's his dad's sister. She hasn't spoken to H's dad in likely over a year because she's somewhat fed up with his self-absorbed disposition.

 

H must know that his aunt is not going to be thrilled with him for this current situation because she knows me, likes me (we've been to her place and travelled once with her). Anyhow, H'd said back in June that he'd contact her & let her know I'm not going as she's his aunt, not mine.

 

She sent us an e-mail weeks ago asking about our arrival time. H called her YESTERDAY and told her he's coming alone as he's moved out of the house. She said they'd discuss things when he arrived.

 

She's a VERY intelligent woman who's not afraid of speaking her mind, and I think she'll tell him he's making a mistake. Here's to hoping.

 

Finally, I will NOT pick him up at the airport which will likely disappointment him since in the time we've been married, he's only had to take a cab home from the airport once as I was always able to juggle my schedule to pick him up. He knows I've got the flight information (since I booked the tickets) and will think I'll be there waiting to surprise him since that's the type of thing I'd normally do. But not this time.

[itllgetbetter]

Trippi: You might just take your "atta girl" (from post #109) back when you read my #110 post about taking H to the airport. It's one step forward, two steps back for me.

Edited August 25, 2011 by itllgetbetter

[trippi1432]

Nope...don't think I should take it back. In that entire airport drop off did either of you talk about the marriage? Did he say any blaming statements to you? What did you do different than what you would have normally done say a month ago? What progress do you think you have made given this exchange with him?

 

Now, I will say this however....Please!! Do not pick him up from the airport!! A cab ride will do him good, you are busy, have other plans...etc....don't call him to tell him you can't either...if he calls and ask, then tell him you can't. Defer to letting him be responsible for himself. Let him continue to initiate the contacts.

 

Don't bank on the aunt...even though she may not agree with what he is doing, blood is still thicker than water, I hate to say.

[itllgetbetter]

Trippi: To answer your questions:

 

a) neither of us talked about the M during the airport drop off and I make it a point NOT to bring up the subject when we speak or see each other. When I saw him a few weeks ago (post #64), it was him who wanted to discuss our M (not the future, just the past), and I tried changing the topic a number of times to keep it light, but he wanted to discuss things)

 

b) Only very minor blaming statement he said was in response to my question about whether he'd checked in on line. He said "no". Then he said "I saw that smug smile on your face." (I used to pack for him and check-in on-line - once I didn't check-in on line and he was miffed about it).

 

c) what I did differently yesterday: I was a combination of confident and indifferent - which I actually did VERY well when I saw him back in July when we went golfing.

 

d) I don't think I've made any "progress" as a result of the exchange, other than knowing I should ALWAYS be very confident when I see or speak with him.

 

e) I DEFINITELY WON'T pick him up at the airport - and again, that's something he'll notice I didn't do (even though I never told him I'd do so) but he may be expecting it.

 

f) re him initiating the contacts: he said he'd call me when he gets back, so, I'll leave it to him to do so. No phone call = not interested in seeing/spending time with me (ugh!)

 

g) his aunt: again, she's a REALLY decent woman (70+ years old) and isn't one who's afraid to speak her mind. Yes, blood's thicker than water, but, I don't think she'll hesitate in telling him he's making a mistake.

Edited August 25, 2011 by itllgetbetter

[2sunny]

this is good progress!

 

you need to continue treating YOURSELF well - and expecting that YOU deserve that same good treatment from others you interact with.

 

YOU deserve this!

 

let him figure out how to problem solve his own issues... you are not his Momma!

 

good work not answering HIS personal questions! HE has no right to know at this point - since he's not treating you with respect and honoring you as HIS wife!

 

him being nice just because you look good to HIM - that's crap! he should be nice no matter what you look like. he has no right, at this point, to know what you may or may not be doing with your time... he gave up that right when he stopped honoring your marriage vows.

 

you can tell him that! it could sound like = "you gave up the right to know MY information when you stopped honoring me"

[itllgetbetter]

Big decision to make: H called & left me messages at home & the office saying he's arrived safely, he misses me, wishes I was with him and asked me to call him.

 

Sooooo .... Do I call, perhaps tomorrow morning?

[andyg99]

He calls again at 11:45 pm tonight and I pick up phone (hey, I let 3 of his calls go to vm) and chat with him. He asks at least 6 times where I was tonight, if I was on a date and who I went on a date with. I just kept changing the subject until finally he says "you don't want to answer?" I say: "It's personal". He says: "Well you ask me personal questions."

 

.

 

how about just tell him something like "I'm still married. married people don't date - if and when our divorce is final I'll go down that path but until then I'm not exactly available for dating..."

 

I hope I'm wrong but if you keep up this little "dancing" around the issues you just might get him back and you'll probably repeat this scenario over and over until one of you gets sick of it and finally files...

[itllgetbetter]

Trippi & 2sunny: Thanks for not giving me a hard time about the airport drop-off.

 

As for only being nice to me because I looked good - NOTHING about my appearance has changed since he moved out, except the weight loss of about 10-12 lbs.

 

Because I have an overactive imagination, when his plane was delayed several hours, I checked to see if plane tickets were still available yesterday in the VERY unlikely circumstance that he were to say why not come along. They were. In fact, they still are.

 

It's only been a matter of hours and his aunt's already had an amazing effect! Just kidding - I don't think they got into much of a discussion because of travel time.

Edited August 25, 2011 by itllgetbetter

[trippi1432]

IGB - I know you are not "thinking" about flying there to be with him!!!! :eek:

 

Take the phone call...do not buy the ticket.....there is a difference in being respected and appearing desperate.

[itllgetbetter]

Andyg99: On the issue of "I'm still married. Married people don't date ..." I was thinking the other day that what makes this situation even more ridiculous is that (to state the obvious): H's jumping from M directly into a relationship (which seems to be the norm on this site) and there's no self-reflection, etc.

 

As for ""dancing" around the issues" & not giving the straight answer that you suggested, which is "I'm still married. Married people don't date ..." I agree that M people shouldn't date, even when separated ("time outs", "hall passes" are crazy! And they seem to be a phenomena of the 21st century, or am I mistaken?) See also the thread "I want to save my M - she wants separation" and post #56).

 

However, the honest answer that you've suggested might be a bit contrary to other advice, such as that in 2sunny's post #114 & Trippi's post #54 for example.

 

As for getting him back, I still don't think he "wants" to come back. As for the scenario repeating itself over and over, I really don't think that'll happen because I think both of us recognize that the way we've been living for the past few months is unpleasant, to put it mildly.

 

However, if Tyler Perry & I met, MAYBE I could make an exception and date if separated! Aside from the fact that that isn't going to happen, I am just joking.

 

Trippi: Yes, I really am "thinking" of it. HOWEVER, I will NOT do it - I promise!! I have a tiny bit of self-respect left and I don't want to appear be desperate.

Edited August 25, 2011 by itllgetbetter

[trippi1432]

However, the honest answer that you've suggested might be a bit contrary to other advice, such as that in 2sunny's post #114 & Trippi's post #54 for example.

 

Trippi: Yes, I really am "thinking" of it. HOWEVER, I will NOT do it - I promise!! I have a tiny bit of self-respect left and I don't want to appear be desperate.

 

Egads!! Going to have to show you how to quote. I was running back to post #54 to see what the heck I said.

 

Going to hold you to the bolded part sweetie....give him this time with his aunt...might be good for him..you will be able to judge by the phone calls.

[2sunny]

well - i see him saying those things when he called - as a man who is a cakeeater.

 

he KNOWS he can't have his OW come to his relative's home - so he figures... in order not to feel so alone and without a woman to sleep with - he should/could just invite you.

 

it's simply not enough!

 

he needs to WANT you and ONLY you!!!

 

besides - it also wouldn't allow time for his Aunt to speak with him as much about her perspective - which he may be wanting as well... either way - it's designed to benefit HIM, not YOU - so no need to consider giving in to his half efforts!

 

i'd tell him no thanks! ps - and i'd give him NO EXPLANATION!

[itllgetbetter]

Trippi & 2sunny: I'm REALLY glad he has this time with his aunt as she'll be the ONLY one he's spoken to that'll give him an honest opinion. I was hoping that this time away from me & OW might help him to clear his head a bit and PERHAPS see that he's making a huge mistake.

 

However, he can be fairly convincing when he talks about how difficult/unhappy in the M he was, and for what length of time, to the point that at times, I wonder if he's correct. After I give MY head a shake, I realize he's twisting the truth to suit his purposes. So, then I thought that MAYBE, since I've lived through this M and sometimes I wonder if what he says is true (because he's so convincing), maybe the aunt will believe some of his lies.

 

Trippi: The book you recommended "Runaway Husbands ..." is GREAT! Every female BS on LS should read it - male BS's might also find it worthwhile. The author speaks of the departing spouse criticizing their spouse in order to feel less guilty.

 

"It's over" is a common phrase that's used to let BS know that the M is over. That was used on me too (see my first post, 2nd last para.) Now I'm wondering whether he already knows that he's not coming back and this is limbo's being prolonged unnecessarily. Her description of the pain that takes place is "spot on" as those in the UK'd say.

 

2sunny: I'm not sure of how much of his aunt's perspective he's going to want since to date, he hasn't wanted anyone's opinion if it's not going to support his behavior.

 

I'll return his call tomorrow and keep the call brief.

Edited August 26, 2011 by itllgetbetter

[2sunny]

i suggest you also read "the four agreements" by don miguel ruiz

 

this may help you gain some clarity with his chosen words - and yours as well.

 

another one of his great books is "the voice of knowledge" which helped me immensely about beginning to believe MY OWN TRUTH - instead of believing what i was taught to believe. it helped me to be true to myself... based on what brought me happiness... not based on what happiness "others" brought to me. it helped me to stop believing all the lies i once you to live based on how i was raised.

 

my beliefs began to blossom as my mind became more open to what seemed to work FOR ME.

 

check it out! small books = big messages = high impact... in a very positive way for me.

[itllgetbetter]

2sunny: Thanks for the book suggestions - I'll get them too - which will make 4 books that I'm in the process of reading.

 

The night he left in May, he left me a note saying something about him hoping I work on myself while he's away so that I can become a better person & he'd work on himself too - Yes, there's always room for improvement, but, it doesn't appear to me that he's done any "self-improvement". For example, he picked up the book "Finding Your Passion" weeks ago but hasn't read it yet.

 

We'll see if he takes a look at "The Five Love Languages" while away like he said he'd do.

[trippi1432]

Trippi & 2sunny: I'm REALLY glad he has this time with his aunt as she'll be the ONLY one he's spoken to that'll give him an honest opinion. I was hoping that this time away from me & OW might help him to clear his head a bit and PERHAPS see that he's making a huge mistake.

 

However, he can be fairly convincing when he talks about how difficult/unhappy in the M he was, and for what length of time, to the point that at times, I wonder if he's correct. After I give MY head a shake, I realize he's twisting the truth to suit his purposes. So, then I thought that MAYBE, since I've lived through this M and sometimes I wonder if what he says is true (because he's so convincing), maybe the aunt will believe some of his lies.

 

Trippi: The book you recommended "Runaway Husbands ..." is GREAT! Every female BS on LS should read it - male BS's might also find it worthwhile. The author speaks of the departing spouse criticizing their spouse in order to feel less guilty.

 

First, stop the analysis and giving his words credibility. I gave my exH...even other ex's too much credibility in their words that hurt me. On one hand, guilt is a very hard pill to swallow...so it gets spread around to make someone else feel better. This is very common in many breakups...breaks..separations...etc. See it for what it is, a way for the departing person to alleviate themselves from the harsh reality of their actions.

 

"It's over" is a common phrase that's used to let BS know that the M is over. That was used on me too (see my first post, 2nd last para.) Now I'm wondering whether he already knows that he's not coming back and this is limbo's being prolonged unnecessarily. Her description of the pain that takes place is "spot on" as those in the UK'd say.

 

And this is why you do the 180, for you, not him...not to get him back..that is only a side effect if it happens at all. The 180 is designed to help you heal..to move forward with your life..and if he notices at all...then something may come of it, but even the Divorce Coaches state that it is for you, not the wayward spouse.

 

2sunny: I'm not sure of how much of his aunt's perspective he's going to want since to date, he hasn't wanted anyone's opinion if it's not going to support his behavior.

 

I'll return his call tomorrow and keep the call brief.

 

On family IGB - My ex's family tolerates him and his new wife at family events. Other than his mother, the rest of the family doesn't speak to him unless it is a family event any more...and they were a very tight family. They don't support him..so I get that. Keep the call brief...good idea.