Any legal tips for a BS here?

[Saul Goodman]

Think of it like a tide. It ebbs and flows. You may wake up one day in the distant or not so distant future and experience strong emotions. There are no absolutes. It's a process. With children, the ebb and flow will be more marked and/or long-lived, IMO.

 

That's a good way of putting it. Emotions can be unpredictable. Emotions can be contradictory. Emotions can be both controllable and uncontrollable.

 

I think back to the afternoon before d-day: I thought that I would be angry. I thought that I would coldly and objectively tear apart any excuse that my wife could come up with and get straight to the point. But when the sh_t hit the fan, I felt disappointment and sadness. I pitied her. I pitied the delusionary depths of deceit that she was capable of. Not for less than a month, as was my case. But for over a year of her life.

 

Didn't see that coming.

[trippi1432]

You don't have to be a guy to get it. Emotions and letting go are a process to everyone...gender not explicit...but it happens. It's okay to remember the good things of what was..and move forward to better things of what can be.

[Yasuandio]

 

I guess it's because of the magnitude of what she has done. Straight out of daytime television or something. I'm sure I would've been a lot more torn if things had ended on a more bittersweet note.

 

You mis-spoke. "Because of the magnitude of what she and I have done." Doesn't that sound more accurate? Saying it, and spelling it out, and excepting like it is will make you feel less victimized, and make the medicine go down a lot easier.

 

I promise you, Saul, it may take a year or more, but one day you are going to realize where you may have contributed to your wife's unhappiness with you. What she did was the wrong choice - she should have come to you with her issues and problems. And maybe she did. But at that time she perhaps dhe did not have the right words and communicative tools to get across to you. Or maybe you were not listening. Or maybe there was a darn good justifiable reason you didn't want or need to hear her. I've really not been on any side of this situation you have. (Although, you actions and "tude" have really frustrated me a few times, "I am sorry for that," and I should not have posted my pis't off-ness). My point has always been, it often takes more than one person to destroy a long term marriage.

 

My goal was to "protect" you from adding insult to injury with regards to "what you may not know, or understand right now about yourself, and perhaps where you may or may not have contributed to your wife's unhappiness." But once you rang that bell "the way you were dead-set to ring it, there is no way now that it can be unrung. Whatever there may be that you discover in the future about the past, if anything, will always be colored by the area in which you mis-spoke. You get me?

 

PS It has taken me three years to realize where my left turns have been over the last 30 years. I am certainly a piece of work myself - Ms., Drama Queen, Ph.D.! I am just beginning to learn and understand about blunders over a period of time, of which it never, ever would occur to me could constitute a marital problem. But I totally get it now - after 3 years! I am happy I have not done any "nasties" to him in this process. But somewhere I've written about one of many servelances he has had conducted on me, with the goal of trying to make me "lose it." But this time, I really got hurt bad - like injured, cause THIS TIME, I went after the dude.

 

Therefore, there is no unring this bell. He has really turned me with this "drive her nuts" campaign. I've always doubted, but now I am sure. You see, Saul, that's what I mean. I not saying you did anything that insidious. But my husband is going to get the divorce he wants. There is no need for all of this.

 

And my thought was essentially the same in your case. You can have thing structured and configured to protect yourself, without that dramatic day we all waited for with "baited breath." It did not have to be done like that, there were clearly multiple options. And the one YOU chose not only had the highest entainment rating, it speaks volumes, and that is not necessarily a criticism (so, hold your fire, soldiers!)!

 

In summary, what can you and she do to make this situation right, if anything, can, or should make it right? (And no, I do no mean turning wrong into right. What I mean is shaking hands and admitting where we both went wrong for the sake of the kids).

 

Anyway, I hope my perspective and example is useful. And I'm ready for you guys to beat me up. I can take it. I'm bad, so bad. Yas

[Saul Goodman]

what can you and she do to make this situation right, if anything, can, or should make it right?

I would ask her to come home so that we can talk to each other and sort something out. Possibly through MC (genuinely this time) or some other means.

 

And I did ask her to come home last Friday. She doesn't want her old life. Hell, she even gave me the "it's not you, it's me" line.

 

What do you suggest Yas? If anything? If you have a list of ideas, now is the time. I'm open to suggestion.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[Yasuandio]

I would ask her to come home so that we can talk to each other and sort something out. Possibly through MC (genuinely this time) or some other means.

 

And I did ask her to come home last Friday. She doesn't want her old life. Hell, she even gave me the "it's not you, it's me" line.

 

What do you suggest Yas? If anything? If you have a list of ideas, now is the time. I'm open to suggestion.

 

Saul, you have crossed the most difficult hurdle. You can hear what I'm trying to say now. Sometimes ya got to go thru the experience to learn and see stuff I guess. (Hold your fire soldiers! Saul asked me....).

 

Typically, it is at this juncture, where everyone has to fall down and make idiots out of themselves any number of times before it finially SINKS IN that they should have followed the advice that was given them in the first place, for the right reason.

 

Here is my suggestion. In writing. Make one final plea to your wife. No blaming. Just honesty you are stating where you have gone wrong, and OWNING IT. Take responsibilty for it. No one made you take the course of action you did. (it doesn't matter who goes first!)

 

[Just as her choices are, "on her" -- but you are not writing about her faults, you are only talking about yourself in this correspondence. How you feel about "her issues" and "what she's done" can be a "mystery" to her for now, as those feelings are understandably are going to vacillate all over the map for some time till you get a grip, cause, she did leave you, like, in a bit of a bind.]

 

So, your focus is: what are your regrets? What do you wish you had done differently? Is there anything you need to apologize for? Was there anything "wrong," "vengeful," "hateful," "deceitful" and/or "spiteful" you may need to address? (Or at least to yourself?). At that point, I think it fair to say in this corresponse "how you felt" once you discovered the affair. (Now, see. That wasn't so bad to own up to those feelings. Anyone would feel like that. You just need to check yourself on how far you go in "acting on it." You get me?).

 

The final part of this correspondence might have your hopes, and dreams for the survival of your marriage and your family unit. Don't let pride get in the way here. Speak directly from your heart -- as you felt the moment you discovered her infidelity. I think it fair there be a section in the coorespondence that describes those emotions in graphic detail.

 

Ok, Saul, now please help me organize my thoughts, because I cannot see all the words on my slowing dying Iphone, I have dyslexia.

 

Seems there are about four concepts (all about you - no accusing, no blaming).

 

My point is to just get this intel out there, once and for all, so you know you've said everything that needs to be said. (Actually, at this point it doesn't really matter who if anyone steps up and takes any responsibility. So, you will be the first to do it - clearly, as she is in affair fog, and will be non comprende-vu for awhile.

 

This will be the one and ONLY time you spill you guts. It's her turn next. And until you hear the words: I willing to do anything to save our marriage, then, it is a NO GO, period, end of story.

 

Once your conscious is clean, and you've surrendered heart, that's where that difficult thing that we all have trouble with comes in. It's called the NC/LC/180. We will provide you with the materials.

 

Please make a little outline of the correspondence idea so I can make sure I like it. That's the teacher in me. I'll be glad to stay up awhile and look it over for you

 

(Attention!!! Soldiers!!! Man Your Puke Buckets!!! Like Now!!! Double-time for you, Trimmer! I wanna see you gagg'in a maggot, dude.)

 

She's bad, you know it. Yas.

 

 

 

P.S. It's a GO. Forward March, Soldiers!

Edited August 31, 2011 by Yasuandio

[Trimmer]

(Attention!!! Soldiers!!! Man Your Puke Buckets!!! Like Now!!! Double-time for you, Trimmer! I wanna see you gagg'in a maggot, dude.)

Hey, appreciate the shout-out, Yas...

 

I'm trying to find areas to comment on where we agree, and I suppose the closest I can come is to say that I do believe that when a marriage is in trouble or failing, that it is important for both parties to acknowledge their contributions to the state of the marriage, and that there is seldom an "all-clean" party and an "all-dirty" one. My wife had two affairs, and chose to leave me and break up our family (2 kids) on the second one, but even though she made those particular decisions on her own, it is very important to me to acknowledge my part in the dynamic of our marriage. I think in this you and I will agree.

 

However, once a party chooses to go outside the marriage, to have an affair, to keep that affair secret, and so on, I maintain that while I certainly had a role to play and my own deficiencies in the dynamic within our marriage, but the choice to break our bond by going outside, to disrespect and disregard our marriage by committing infidelity, she owns completely and by herself.

 

And that's where your approach sounds to me like you are "blaming" Saul inappropriately (and I'll admit, I'm probably projecting and taking it personally too, having travelled a path similar to his.) Saul couldn't have been playing the "gotcha" game a year and a half ago when she chose to start her affair because he didn't know about it when she made that choice. He couldn't have been playing the "gotcha" game recently when she decided to leave the marriage because he didn't yet know about it when she made that choice. Her choices to cheat, and leave the marriage were made secretly and deceptively while she was participating in the marriage actively in bad faith - she owns those choices herself.

 

So you keep putting a fairly equal burden upon him - I agree that he bears an equal burden for the state of their marriage, as far as he understood it in good faith, but no burden for her decision to deceive him, to cheat on him, or for her secret decision to leave him, because none of those were performed - by her - in good faith.

 

If she had come to him a year and a half ago and honestly said "I have some problems with our marriage"...

 

If she had participated in marriage counseling in good faith and with honesty....

 

Failing success at fixing the marriage, if she had left the marriage FIRST, before starting another relationship....

 

...then I would be right with you, saying that if both parties had done their best in good faith, but the marriage still failed, then yeah, bear the burden equally.

 

But what Saul is talking about when he says "the magnitude of what she has done" is referring to her choices to go outside the marriage, to cheat, to lie in Marriage Counseling, and to actively deceive him about her part in the marriage in general. That's all a huge pile of bad faith on her side that Saul has not contributed to (remember, he didn't even know she was doing it when she was making it happen.)

 

So to me, if she had been participating in the marriage with her best effort and in good faith, then yes, I would insist that Saul recognize his equal participation in its failure. And like you, I probably wouldn't stand for him saying "the magnitude of what she has done" without balance.

 

But she's got such a heap of bad faith contributions on her part, that I think it's possible for Saul to acknowledge his part in the marriage dynamic, (to the degree that he understood it accurately in the face of her deceptions, anyway), and still say "the magnitude of what she has done," referring to her deceptions, cheating, and secret preparations to leave, without sounding out of line.

 

No puking needed...

[Yasuandio]

Trimmer, dude man. Don't give yourself an effing hernia. Yas

[Trimmer]

Trimmer, dude man. Don't give yourself an effing hernia. Yas

Heh heh... I do have to admit, it was a strenuous exercise coming up with an area that I could argue we might agree upon. But don't worry about me, my insides are still whole...

 

But listen, your last two resposes to my posts have been

 

"I could not comprehend some of what you wrote," and

 

"Don't give yourself an effing hernia"

 

...but you never did address any of my points from those posts. Most interesting to me is that you say that he must be causing his wife's anguish with his "gotcha" game, but when she made her choice a full 1-1/2 years ago to start her affair, while she was making that affair a long-term thing, and keeping it a secret that she was planning to leave the marriage, while she was participating in Marriage Counseling but lying the whole time, he wasn't aware of any of this yet, so there couldn't have been a "gotcha" game happening then.

 

If your only response to that is "don't have a hernia", then I accept that.

 

My point is, she could have brought her dissatisfaction to the table, and if that didn't work, she could have left the marriage before starting another relationship; she chose not to. She alone owns those choices, and that's "the magnitude of what she's done" that Saul speaks of.

[Yasuandio]

Trimmer, my man, dude. ARE YOU TRYING PURPOUSLY TO CAUSE ME TO HAVE A GD F'ING STROKE?

 

Don't you see drama that went on tonight on SOS? And I was mainly posting to myself! Then WGW had a flip out because I wrote "puke bucket" on his thread. So much for "Me casa es su casa," (new translation: no welcome matte for loco señorita, mucho gracias, asta la vista). I hope WGW doesn't report me, because I sure don't need any trouble with authorities.

 

I see you may have noticed that "addressing your posts" is not exactly a high priority item on my agenda. Indeed, if you have surmised such, you couldn't be more entirely correct. I'm not posting in order to debate a particular issue, and I don't have a dog in this fight. I want to see Saul get what he really wants, not what others think he needs, or what his wife deserves to have or lose.

 

There is really no way I can respond to Saul's wife's particular behavior's conduct, besides agreeing with the general consensus that what she is doing is considered wrong in our culture and society. I have not heard her side of this story. I have no idea how I might react to her, or diagnose the situation from her POV, until I see how and what she expresses.

 

For instance, I can look at what Saul post tonight and learn quite a bit about him. From what I read tonight, I feel even more confident in my original and current take on his situation. But I see what I see. And, it appeared tonight that Saul saw a glimmer of what I have been seeing all along. It's not right, it's not wrong, but it is complicated - and only Saul and his wife really are the witnesses. And what they see now, will likely be different a year from now, and two years from now. Bottom line, I'm not here to debate, address points with counterpoints. I'm just throwing out and sharing ideas and patterns that I notice. Just like everyone else.

 

OMG. Look how much intellectualizationing you forced to participate in till the early hours of the morning! OMG, OMG, OMG!

 

If you are trying to exorcise me, or are applying mind control techniques, seriously dude man, just leave me out of it. You d' man, whatever you say goes, I give, you win! You're an effing genus. Y

Edited August 31, 2011 by Yasuandio
Mind Control

[Saul Goodman]

I was pretty interested in seeing what you had for me Yas. For serious.

 

Make one final plea to your wife. No blaming. Just honesty you are stating where you have gone wrong, and OWNING IT. Take responsibilty for it. No one made you take the course of action you did. (it doesn't matter who goes first!)

I tried keeping things calm and open on d-day (remember that one of my older posts said that I thought I would be angry. Yet, I actually remained relatively level headed when it came down to things. Although, the things that she said to me got under my skin). Tried communicating with her by phone after she left and she ignored my calls. Tried talking to her the first Friday after she left and she cut me off. Tried opening up last Friday but what she said essentially amounted to "what's done is done."

 

what are your regrets? What do you wish you had done differently? Is there anything you need to apologize for? Was there anything "wrong," "vengeful," "hateful," "deceitful" and/or "spiteful" you may need to address? (Or at least to yourself?). At that point, I think it fair to say in this corresponse "how you felt" once you discovered the affair.

Did I point out in one of my older posts that I owned up to my sneaking around on my wife (I was completely straight with her anyway), on d-day? I think so but I'm too lazy to check. In any case, she didn't care about what I had to say. She still doesn't care about what I have to say. To paraphrase something that she said to me last Friday: "Live your life and be happy with our kids, but I don't want any part in it."

 

The final part of this correspondence might have your hopes, and dreams for the survival of your marriage and your family unit.

I don't want the marriage to survive. But I did tell her that she needs to accept and continue her responsibility as a mother to our kids. To end a husband-wife relationship is one thing. To end a mother-son relationship is another.

 

I recall that you acknowledged that you didn't "get it" (the significance of the parent-child relationship, or something in that area) in another thread. So I'll be completely blunt with you: It is really f__king significant. Really f__king significant. If any other parents here have something to add, go right ahead.

 

Now Yas, when a wife shows complete apathy towards their husband's concerns. When a mother does show interest in their children, and yet, only from a passive role. What do you suggest? Anybody else?

 

I'm still very much so open to suggestions.

 

I also don't know if posting in this thread is a good idea while you are in a manic episode, but it's up to you Yas. Nothing personal.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[Saul Goodman]

You don't have to be a guy to get it. Emotions and letting go are a process to everyone...gender not explicit...but it happens. It's okay to remember the good things of what was..and move forward to better things of what can be.

 

Ah, "guy" as I have used it, can refer to both males and females.

 

I could for instance walk up to some female friends and say "hey you guys" and it wouldn't mean anything more than a casual greeting.

 

The more you know...

[Yasuandio]

Yeah, right. You're welcome.

 

 

Trimmer, Shut It. KP 4-U.

Move Out Troops.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Yasuandio

[Trimmer]

Trimmer, my man, dude. ARE YOU TRYING PURPOUSLY TO CAUSE ME TO HAVE A GD F'ING STROKE?

Relax - even if I had that power, I would not want that to happen. I suggest if you feel the veins bulging, if you feel your hernia starting to tear, simply stop reading.

 

I see you may have noticed that "addressing your posts" is not exactly a high priority item on my agenda. Indeed, if you have surmised such, you couldn't be more entirely correct. I'm not posting in order to debate a particular issue, and I don't have a dog in this fight. I want to see Saul get what he really wants, not what others think he needs, or what his wife deserves to have or lose.

I think Saul has posted clearly about what he wants.

 

There is really no way I can respond to Saul's wife's particular behavior's conduct, besides agreeing with the general consensus that what she is doing is considered wrong in our culture and society.

So are you saying that you prefer not to generalize and draw conclusions beyond the clear facts that you have in front of you? I guess I would agree.

 

But then, how do you draw the conclusion that Saul did his wife wrong and drove her to her affair and her decision to leave the marriage? Your entire approach to him is based on that assumption, and it is a generalization beyond the facts we have in front of us.

 

If you are trying to exorcise me, or are applying mind control techniques...

If you consider discussing and supporting my point as "mind control techniques" then, "Yes - Yes I Am..."

 

Bottom line, I'm not here to debate, address points with counterpoints.

I'm getting that now. I acknowledge it, and I won't continue with you. All the best.

 

 

Did I point out in one of my older posts that I owned up to my sneaking around on my wife (I was completely straight with her anyway), on d-day? I think so but I'm too lazy to check.

Pretty sure you did - I didn't check, either, but my impression is that I don't think you've minimized or excused your behaviors.

 

I don't want the marriage to survive. But I did tell her that she needs to accept and continue her responsibility as a mother to our kids. To end a husband-wife relationship is one thing. To end a mother-son relationship is another.

 

I recall that you acknowledged that you didn't "get it" (the significance of the parent-child relationship, or something in that area) in another thread. So I'll be completely blunt with you: It is really f__king significant. Really f__king significant. If any other parents here have something to add, go right ahead.

I will engage you, instead of Yas, but yes, I completely agree with you. Once I got over the shock of my wife wanting to leave, this was my biggest source of fear and my biggest effort - to try to make it possible for our kids to still have both parents fully in their lives, stable and loving, in a way that didn't put them (the kids) in a hostile or confusing environment, or cause them to have to choose sides or declare loyalties. I have been lucky (and I fully acknowledge that equal credit goes to my Ex in this endeavor), in that I believe we have accomplished this. I hope and wish that you can work your way toward this as well.

 

Yes, really, really, f____ing significant. Can't say it stronger.

 

Now Yas, when a wife shows complete apathy towards their husband's concerns. When a mother does show interest in their children, and yet, only from a passive role. What do you suggest? Anybody else?

Wow, yeah. This one I don't have a suggestion for. All you can hope is that as things settle out, she comes to her senses, and when she does and if she wants to re-engage in the family, you are open enough to welcome her back and support her in her role as "mother" for the good of your kids.

 

I call it, "Family, version 2.0".

[andyg99]

Comments in bold

 

She still doesn't care about what I have to say. To paraphrase something that she said to me last Friday: "Live your life and be happy with our kids, but I don't want any part in it."

 

can she get any clearer than that?

 

I don't want the marriage to survive. But I did tell her that she needs to accept and continue her responsibility as a mother to our kids. To end a husband-wife relationship is one thing. To end a mother-son relationship is another.

 

Neither you, I or any normal parent could ever imagine ending a relationship with children, especially minor ones!! there's something seriously wrong with a person who would do that. I'm dealing with this right now myself (read my thread if you want the details). The only thing we can do is accept their warped decision and double up our own parenting efforts.

 

I recall that you acknowledged that you didn't "get it" (the significance of the parent-child relationship, or something in that area) in another thread. So I'll be completely blunt with you: It is really f__king significant. Really f__king significant. If any other parents here have something to add, go right ahead.

 

No matter what happens from now on your kids are already affected by what has gone on. With your guidance and help they can grow into perfectly normal adults, but as long as she stays out of their lives there will be abandonment issues, it's yor job to see they get through it. Love goes a long way and maybe someday counseling would help too.

 

Now Yas, when a wife shows complete apathy towards their husband's concerns. When a mother does show interest in their children, and yet, only from a passive role. What do you suggest? Anybody else?

 

Just let her have whatever access she wants with the kids, although it is really their decision if they want to be part of HER life. I would never "force" them to see their mom, they might resent you for it (I personally know about that too). The longer she stays away from them the more chance there is that one or both might say "I'm done with her"...

 

I'm still very much so open to suggestions.

 

I also don't know if posting in this thread is a good idea while you are in a manic episode, but it's up to you Yas. Nothing personal.

[Saul Goodman]

Yeah, right. You're welcome.

Look after yourself Yas.

 

I will engage you, instead of Yas, but yes, I completely agree with you. Once I got over the shock of my wife wanting to leave, this was my biggest source of fear and my biggest effort - to try to make it possible for our kids to still have both parents fully in their lives, stable and loving, in a way that didn't put them (the kids) in a hostile or confusing environment, or cause them to have to choose sides or declare loyalties. I have been lucky (and I fully acknowledge that equal credit goes to my Ex in this endeavor), in that I believe we have accomplished this. I hope and wish that you can work your way toward this as well.

Looks like my wife isn't interested in doing any hands on parenting. Our older son has pretty much figured out the situation (although he hasn't said anything about any theoretical affairs to me). I think that resentment or apathy towards his mother is inevitable in his case. Depressing thought.

 

@andy...

 

Something that I've been thinking about: I could be the best damned father alive, I could be Super Dad (which is kinda my plan). But that one action made by our children's mother, to run out on us, could end up leaving scars for the rest of their lives. And it often does.

 

Your right about mother-son contact though. I have no idea what's going to happen there. It's really up to their mother now. I mean, I could probably find some way to drag her back home, but she'd most likely pull some more craziness.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[LifesontheUp]

It's going to be hard Saul and all you can do is be there and support your kids. Counseling is a good idea.

 

I don't pretend to understand why she doesn't want to see her kids. As a mother I would die for mine. She may come to her senses who knows. But in the meantime life goes on and they need you. Take care.

[andyg99]

Something that I've been thinking about: I could be the best damned father alive, I could be Super Dad (which is kinda my plan). But that one action made by our children's mother, to run out on us, could end up leaving scars for the rest of their lives. And it often does.

 

.

 

it will leave scars - there is no doubt about that... but like scars on our body that we have had for years they are just part of us and we go on with our lives not even knowing that they are there, occasionally we see them and think of the incident or accident that caused them but the thought is fleeting.

 

Be Super Dad - it won't take away the scars but it will go a long way in how they deal with those scars...

[Saul Goodman]

it will leave scars - there is no doubt about that... but like scars on our body that we have had for years they are just part of us and we go on with our lives not even knowing that they are there, occasionally we see them and think of the incident or accident that caused them but the thought is fleeting.

 

Be Super Dad - it won't take away the scars but it will go a long way in how they deal with those scars...

 

I was talking to a close friend of mine about this a couple of days ago. Her father left her when she was 11 (became a deadbeat dad basically). She had a very loving mother though. Even so, she says that her absent father caused a huge number of intimacy issues that she has only started to resolve now, over 3 decades later.

 

The thing that we as parents have to accept is this: We can support our kids to the best of our abilities, and we can offer them olive branches at every chance that we can get, but at the end of the day, their minds are their minds. Their actions are their actions. Their lives are their lives.

 

Right now my kids have a huge weight on their shoulders. I can help them and I intent to do so, but there is a lot that they will have to do on their own.

[Saul Goodman]

You know, I've been thinking guys. Tomorrow morning, I'm most likely going to get a call from the wife again.

 

Why do you think she does this? I asked her last week and the answer was "I just have to".

 

It's a pattern I think...a routine. Every Friday. She says a lot of the same things too. Why?

 

I'm at a point now where (like 2.50) my feelings for her are dying. Even so, this occasional contact is something that really sticks with me. I'm considering cutting her off entirely to break this routine.

[Steen719]

Does she talk to your kids when she calls? I would make the calls when they are there and let her talk to them. At least, they have some contact with her then.

[Saul Goodman]

Does she talk to your kids when she calls? I would make the calls when they are there and let her talk to them. At least, they have some contact with her then.

 

She doesn't want to talk to them personally.

[Steen719]

Oh no...I am sorry. I truly hope that part of her gets better soon, for your kids' sake. I just cannot imagine that, as I know you can't.

[Saul Goodman]

Oh no...I am sorry. I truly hope that part of her gets better soon, for your kids' sake. I just cannot imagine that, as I know you can't.

 

Yep. She says that she wants to be a good parent, but actions speak louder than words.

 

There is very little that I can do.

[LifesontheUp]

You could explain to her that you see no benefit in her phone calls. Therefore, please do not call unless she wants to speak to her kids.

[andyg99]

You could explain to her that you see no benefit in her phone calls. Therefore, please do not call unless she wants to speak to her kids.

 

this is great advice Saul - treat her like a business transaction, your only contact should be about 1) the kids 2) divorce matters. If your kids have their own cell phones leave it up to their mom and them to keep contact, if they don't then let them know that they can use the phone to call her whenever they want, when she does call just listen to the above advice from Lifeson....