Any legal tips for a BS here?

[PegNosePete]

Personally I would not tell the BW yet. It may simply force your wife back to the house, and if that happens you might get a worse divorce settlement or custody arrangements. I would at least wait until you've started proceedings.

[Yasuandio]

I'd say, Saul, the fix was in with the lawyers and the money before any 50/50 talk could ever begin. If that ain't a trap, what is it? Anyway, I would not be tooting my horn about 3 outta 4, dude. Which I know you are not. Please understand I am spinning your facts and providing alternate interpretations. I'm in neither camp, Saul. But there are other ways to look at this. IMO when something like this happens, there is a reason, and something has been terribly wrong for a very long time.

 

Hate is a feeling. She can't hate you unless she loves you.

 

Now, for you Mr. Trimmer. Your responses still have not driven me to crack a book yet. Here is what I find troubling about your statement to me. It's the "Ha, Ha, Ha" part. I get concerned when someone finds an issue like this something to "Ha, Ha, Ha" about. Now I know you were reffering to my possible misuse of analogy. I'll be the first to admit that I'm kinda dumb about analogies. I more of an artist type. I was trying. And Ill keep trying if you are ok with it.

 

I'm just going to bottom line today's ideas by making a list:

 

1. Wife leaves in a perhaps shocked state.

 

2. Wife has been missing for "____" hours or days.

 

3. No one has heard from Wife, and Wife is not picking up phone.

 

4. Is it normal behavior for Wife to walk away from her children? Does she love her children? Has she shown any distance from her children recently? Does she care, feed, dress, and clean up after her children?

 

5. Does Wife have any medical, emotional, and/or mental health issue?

 

6. Does she take medication?

 

7. If so, has her script been filled?

 

8. Did it occur to anyone that she may be hurt, injured, in danger, scared, or emotionally over the edge?

 

9. Did it occur to anyone that Wife may need some medica or psychiatriac care?

 

10. Do you think anyone has ever commited suicide over something like this?

 

11. Has anyone made a police report?

 

12. Does her family know she's missing?

 

I know a number of great ideas have been suggested and could easily be accomplished while Wife is on hiatus (if that's what she on). Anyway, just a couple thing we might want to consider.

 

I think I'll revise my analogy to "enabling an adultress & contributing to the ongoing Breakdown of his marriage." Saul played a role in keeping the affair going strong. I don't care if it is one single day. Saul - where are your imperfections? Do you see any in the plot you came up with? Have you ever done anything similiar before?

 

It is possible, Saul over did it, and possibly skewed the data he was collecting? For instance, he may have subconsciously encouraged, and/or provided a little more free time for the cheaters glasses to fog up. When your personally involved in the reseach, like he was, it would not be unusal to provide a bit of extra stimuli to the subjects to reinforce the initial findings and bump up the data display construct. That may be why Doctors don't operate on themselves or close family members.

 

I wonder what would have happened if he brought the truth, and his true honest expression and pain to her to witness? We will never know. As instead Saul has adjusted to it "_____" amount of time, and rather than face the man she hurt - and see and feel it at that moment (as opposed to the "got cha''"). That is the true dose of reality she needed (that is, if you still love her and want a family with her Saul).

Edited August 17, 2011 by Yasuandio

[John Michael Kane]

Tell the BW now. She deserves to know and she's in the same position as you.

[Yasuandio]

Tell the BW now. She deserves to know and she's in the same position as you.

 

Yes, what perfect timing.

[Yasuandio]

You know, Saul, it might not be a bad idea to call the OM to try to find out if your wife is safe. You are the stand up guy in this instance. I would be proud of a person that stepped up and made that call.

 

The previous suggestion may contain some revenge. That's a call I would not be proud of when your Wife has been missing. There is time for that call.

 

But isn't there a more important agenda item at the moment?

 

Remember, Saul, Vengence is for God. She is human, and she is in pain too.

 

And another little saying I like that may fit nicely under the previous post: I think thee dost protest too much. Keep that one in mind also. Who among us is perfect? Which of you posters never "made," or "thought about making," or "came damn near close to making" a marital blunder? Hmmm?

[Saul Goodman]

Personally I would not tell the BW yet. It may simply force your wife back to the house, and if that happens you might get a worse divorce settlement or custody arrangements. I would at least wait until you've started proceedings.

That's what my lawyer advised, at least for the next one or two weeks. Keeping quiet is making me pretty uncomfortable though.

 

I'd say, Saul, the fix was in with the lawyers and the money before any 50/50 talk could ever begin. If that ain't a trap, what is it?

I should point out that even with all the planning, the numbers are still basically in her favour, if she wanted it that way. Something like 55-60/45-40 according to my lawyer. If I had done nothing it would been around 65-70/35-30.

 

Saul played a role in keeping the affair going strong.

But that's the thing, my wife is an adult, and I can't control her actions. It's up to her to end her affair, not me, right? Even if I confronted her early and told her to stop, if she wants to continue her affair then she will.

 

Why am I even defending myself here?

 

You know, Saul, it might not be a bad idea to call the OM to try to find out if your wife is safe. You are the stand up guy in this instance. I would be proud of a person that stepped up and made that call.

I'm seriously thinking about it (I know, actions speak louder than words). Doing nothing is wrecking up my conscience. Edited August 18, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[donnamaybe]

Well Mr. Trimmer, you are so smart, what do you call it then?

 

Sneeky, Self-Serving, Double-Notch Spying, Trapping (as opposed to entrapping)? I can go with the latter, and use anatomy as a metaphor.

 

Saul at least has a limb hanging. But he clean snapped her limb(s) off - and she has left is disgrace, confusion, resentment, troubled, scared, and in real shock I would imagine. Saul himself questioned his human qualities. This is my answer to him. I believe this is why he is feeling that question in his heart. Something ain't right about this project he conducted, and we rubber stamped.

 

Ok, so, technically, I was wrong to use entrapment and stalking as a metaphor.

 

Therefore, I'm going with voyeristic trapping. Do you like that better Mr. Trimmer. I'm dying for you to take me apart limb by limb. If you can take that apart Ill be forced to crack a book, like you.

 

For you Saul, I am much closer to a heathen than a church goer. But during my ordeal these past three years I did become aquinted with a Methodist church by accident, where I met Reverent Parker. When I would get one of my "Lucy" ideas to even the score with husband - something always drew me into see Rev. Parker about it. He is so kind and gentle and doesn't flip out with a "quirky" type like me, plus, I'm a challenging customer.

 

My last "Lucy Idea" could have been devistating - but true knowledge about my husband. Every time I thought about I almost peed my pants! If anyone else knew what I knew they would die, completely die! I wanted to tell the world and humilate him. I went to see Rev. Parker, and his response was a simple one: "Vengence is For God." I twisted and turned and justied and manpuated my desire around every which way, such as, "isn't it more honorable if I come forward with the truth?" Yeah, Right.

 

Rev. Parker's response to me: Vengence is for God.

 

WTF?

[Saul Goodman]

WTF?

 

Yas brings up some good points. A different perspective on this thread, although I don't necessarily agree with everything that she says.

 

My personal theory is that my wife is staying with her parents. I did call them, but it's possible that they are protecting her. It's around an 11 hour drive over there, and I don't have the time for a road trip. I mean, she has her car, and she brought along a suitcase filled with supplies, so how much trouble could she get into? And if they run out, she's going to have to come back right?

 

It raises another question: Why do I have to force her out of hiding?

[Yasuandio]

That's what my lawyer advised, at least for the next one or two weeks. Keeping quiet is making me pretty uncomfortable though.

 

I should point out that even with all the planning, the numbers are still basically in her favour, if she wanted it that way. Something like 55-60/45-40 according to my lawyer. If I had done nothing it would been around 65-70/35-30.

 

But that's the thing, my wife is an adult, and I can't control her actions. It's up to her to end her affair, not me, right? Even if I confronted her early and told her to stop, if she wants to continue her affair then she will.

 

Why am I even defending myself here?

 

I'm seriously thinking about it (I know, actions speak louder than words). Doing nothing is wrecking up my conscience.

 

No one asked you to become defensive. Point out whatever you may in numbers. It actually demonstrates what your issue is, what perhaps your wife escaped from. While her conduct is inexcusable, I'm not too impressed with yours either.

 

Look how you respond to the 12 questions I posed regarding her well being. Basically, you blew it off - and went straight for a defensive numbers game. And then the "Poor Me" routine..."it's really in her favor, 60/40 or better, or what the eff ever."

 

You know what? I think your plot, and your cheerleaders have a lot to say about your own character. Whatta ya think of that! I'm done with you. You lowered youself to the same gutter your wife crawled into. And why did she seek refuge in a gutter? Look in the mirror, dude. Look at you skeeming, plotting, selfish ways man. Look at your cheerleaders - do they seem to be offering you balanced advice? Or could they be exorcising their bloody wreched anger a willing medium such as you? I don't see any vets here. I just see some hateful vindictive empty containers that press buttons. Where is Carhill, Trippi, 2sunny, debtman, WGW, shattered reality, (please forgive me if I cannot draw up your handle), the usual participants????? I quit. You'll have to make special requests for me. I've expended enough energy here thank very much. Good luck to you Saul. With best regards, I remain

 

Cordially........

[Saul Goodman]

No one asked you to become defensive. Point out whatever you may in numbers. It actually demonstrates what your issue is, what perhaps your wife escaped from. While her conduct is inexcusable, I'm not too impressed with yours either.

 

Look how you respond to the 12 questions I posed regarding her well being. Basically, you blew it off - and went straight for a defensive numbers game. And then the "Poor Me" routine..."it's really in her favor, 60/40 or better, or what the eff ever."

 

You know what? I think your plot, and your cheerleaders have a lot to say about your own character. Whatta ya think of that! I'm done with you. You lowered youself to the same gutter your wife crawled into. And why did she seek refuge in a gutter? Look in the mirror, dude. Look at you skeeming, plotting, selfish ways man. Look at your cheerleaders - do they seem to be offering you balanced advice? Or could they be exorcising their bloody wreched anger a willing medium such as you? I don't see any vets here. I just see some hateful vindictive empty containers that press buttons. Where is Carhill, Trippi, 2sunny, debtman, WGW, shattered reality, (please forgive me if I cannot draw up your handle), the usual participants????? I quit. You'll have to make special requests for me. I've expended enough energy here thank very much. Good luck to you Saul. With best regards, I remain

 

Cordially........

 

Well, okay.

 

I think that there are worse things than self presevation but there you go.

[trippi1432]

Sorry Yas...I haven't been following...but after reading the intro..why expend the energy...this guy wants legal advice...you should have had a pre-nupt Saul simply put....he doesn't want his marriage back. Yas....let it go.

[Saul Goodman]

Sorry Yas...I haven't been following...but after reading the intro..why expend the energy...this guy wants legal advice...you should have had a pre-nupt Saul simply put....he doesn't want his marriage back. Yas....let it go.

 

Can you please explain why Yas is behaving like this?

 

I mean, I'm not trying to be purposefully malicious to my wife.

[trippi1432]

Do I have to go thru 8 pages..give me a summary? Never mind..I got four pgs in...good luck on the settlement.

 

YAS...I stand by my previous post...let it go.

Edited August 18, 2011 by trippi1432

[Saul Goodman]

Do I have to go thru 8 pages..give me a summary?

 

Okay.

 

Found out that my wife has been having an affair for over a year. Most likely an exit affair judging by the information I gathered. She's been lying during MC.

 

So I get a divorce lawyer. Covered all of my assets as best I can. Protected myself as best I can, in preparation for a possible divorce. Wife doesn't know any of this.

 

I tell my wife everything that I have known and done at the end of last week. She disappears off the radar with her car and a suitcase, filled with rage. No contact from her for the past 5 days.

 

Edit: Ah, I see.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[Star Gazer]

One other thing:

 

Get consultations with multiple attorneys, including as many divorce lawyers who have good reputations as possible. Not only is this simply being a good consumer, but any attorney you talk to will be unable to represent your wife afterwards.

 

I was gonna say this. Hehehehe.

[Trimmer]

Yas brings up some good points. A different perspective on this thread, although I don't necessarily agree with everything that she says.

Yeah... I was going to comment that there are a few posters on this site whose fundamental philosophies I tend to align with, in broad strokes, but who are individually total @$$holes. On the other hand, Yas seems like a perfectly pleasant person, it's just that some of her ideas seem to me to be totally whacked - but hey, it's always good to have a check from another angle.

 

At least until that last post, where it sounds like her meds ran out or something:

...your plot, and your cheerleaders have a lot to say about your own character. Whatta ya think of that! I'm done with you. You lowered youself to the same gutter your wife crawled into.

Ah, OK. It had been pleasant, up to there, anyway...

 

My personal theory is that my wife is staying with her parents. I did call them, but it's possible that they are protecting her. It's around an 11 hour drive over there, and I don't have the time for a road trip.

In spite of Yas' assertions, I maintain that you are not responsible for the choices your wife has made as a free-thinking adult. And, as she has made more choices to put herself in her current situation - and specifically disowned her connection with you - I further maintain that you are not responsible for her choices now.

 

I mean, she has her car, and she brought along a suitcase filled with supplies, so how much trouble could she get into? And if they run out, she's going to have to come back right?

Look, she's an adult, capable of functioning out in the big world. The likelihood is 99.99% that she's fine (i.e not in danger, or in need of a rescue) and is moving along and functioning under her own free will.

 

Given that she is overwhelmingly more likely to be avoiding you, the idea that you should go hunting her down on the chance that she's "not OK" and just not able to reach you is a little.... paternalistic, isn't it? Isn't that treating her like a child? She is responsible for her actions, and she owns their consequences. If she needed your help, there is nothing - other than herself - preventing her from asking for it. Occam's Razor, Keep It Simple: I would say that the fact that she's not asking for your help probably means that she doesn't want it right now.

 

It raises another question: Why do I have to force her out of hiding?

I agree. She has specifically chosen to leave and go into hiding from you. You are not responsible for dragging her back.

 

As a matter of fact, many times, one of the complaints when a spouse leaves is that his/her partner is "too controlling." If she has chosen to go out of contact with you, and is actively seeking to keep it that way, wouldn't it be arguably "controlling" of you to assume that you were entitled to come and drag her back? Somehow, that doesn't seem like a winning plan...

 

You are "damned if you do (too controlling) and damned if you don't (don't care)?" I say she's an adult who is responsible for herself, and she's made it clear that she's moved away from you emotionally, you don't need to go hunt her down and drag her into doing anything. She's capable of asking for your assistance if she needs it.

 

If you want to assure yourself of her "safety" why not explain to her parents what is going on, tell them you will respect her desire to stay in hiding, but ask them to confirm simply that she is safe so you can honestly reassure your children? This would relieve any concerns you have about her "safety", and also get her parents in the loop, because that might be a concern for them...

[trippi1432]

Trimmer...thanks..good summary basically...Saul, show is over..do what ya gotta do. Life is too short to be unhappy..15 years...had I lived by his words..I may have been 12 years happy with out him..I will never be unhappy again..that's for sure.

 

Do what is right for you Saul....

 

Yas...call me Sunday sweetie.

[carhill]

Where is Carhill, Trippi, 2sunny, debtman, WGW, shattered reality, (please forgive me if I cannot draw up your handle), the usual participants?????

 

I got back yesterday from a week-long trip to visit friends back east. It appears the OP is doing fine. I don't cheer-lead, rather offer advice from my experience and let it go. This is still very early stages of the process. His reports over the next year will give a clearer recitation of direction. Hope it works out.

[John Michael Kane]

No one asked you to become defensive. Point out whatever you may in numbers. It actually demonstrates what your issue is, what perhaps your wife escaped from. While her conduct is inexcusable, I'm not too impressed with yours either.

 

Look how you respond to the 12 questions I posed regarding her well being. Basically, you blew it off - and went straight for a defensive numbers game. And then the "Poor Me" routine..."it's really in her favor, 60/40 or better, or what the eff ever."

 

You know what? I think your plot, and your cheerleaders have a lot to say about your own character. Whatta ya think of that! I'm done with you. You lowered youself to the same gutter your wife crawled into. And why did she seek refuge in a gutter? Look in the mirror, dude. Look at you skeeming, plotting, selfish ways man. Look at your cheerleaders - do they seem to be offering you balanced advice? Or could they be exorcising their bloody wreched anger a willing medium such as you? I don't see any vets here. I just see some hateful vindictive empty containers that press buttons. Where is Carhill, Trippi, 2sunny, debtman, WGW, shattered reality, (please forgive me if I cannot draw up your handle), the usual participants????? I quit. You'll have to make special requests for me. I've expended enough energy here thank very much. Good luck to you Saul. With best regards, I remain

 

Cordially........

 

Wow man you're even blaming him for being cheated on.

[Yasuandio]

All you BSers have "cheater's fog" and cannot see that there are two sides to this issue. I am on neither side. I am just concerned about 1-12 right now. Is she safe?

 

Good luck, Carol

[PegNosePete]

I am just concerned about 1-12 right now.

What's 1-12?

 

Is she safe?

If she wasn't then her next of kin would be the first to find out.

[Trimmer]

What's 1-12?

In this post, Yas listed a string of 12 concerns:

1. Wife leaves in a perhaps shocked state.

 

2. Wife has been missing for "____" hours or days.

 

3. No one has heard from Wife, and Wife is not picking up phone.

 

4. Is it normal behavior for Wife to walk away from her children? Does she love her children? Has she shown any distance from her children recently? Does she care, feed, dress, and clean up after her children?

 

5. Does Wife have any medical, emotional, and/or mental health issue?

 

6. Does she take medication?

 

7. If so, has her script been filled?

 

8. Did it occur to anyone that she may be hurt, injured, in danger, scared, or emotionally over the edge?

 

9. Did it occur to anyone that Wife may need some medica or psychiatriac care?

 

10. Do you think anyone has ever commited suicide over something like this?

 

11. Has anyone made a police report?

 

12. Does her family know she's missing?

 

She subsequently used the fact that the OP didn't respond post direct responses to those concerns,as support for her assertion that he is playing games, and after claiming "I'm in neither camp, Saul..." she turned on him, in a kind of a vicious way:

 

Look how you respond to the 12 questions I posed regarding her well being. Basically, you blew it off - and went straight for a defensive numbers game. And then the "Poor Me" routine..."it's really in her favor, 60/40 or better, or what the eff ever."

 

You know what? I think your plot, and your cheerleaders have a lot to say about your own character. Whatta ya think of that! I'm done with you. You lowered youself to the same gutter your wife crawled into. And why did she seek refuge in a gutter? Look in the mirror, dude.

So that's the importance of "items 1-12" to Yas.

 

I would maintain the following:

 

1. Wife leaves in a perhaps shocked state.

There is no indication other than that the wife CHOSE to leave, just like she chose to go on the vacation.

 

2. Wife has been missing for "____" hours or days.

Again, every indication at the start was that this was intentional and voluntary on the wife's part.

 

3. No one has heard from Wife, and Wife is not picking up phone.

Not true. The actual fact is that the OP has not heard from the wife, and the wife is not picking up calls from the OP. And again, this is completely consistent with her apparent CHOICE and intention to remove herself from him.

 

And once you establish that she is pretty much certainly off exercising her free will, the rest ("does she have her medication?") is completely within her ability to take care of for herself. File a police report? The first thing they're going to ask is whether she left of her own free will, and you'd have to answer "Yes." They're not going to take a missing person report just because she willingly left and isn't responding to the one person that she fully intended to leave.

 

So the overwhelming likelihood is not that she is lying in a ditch, victim of some unfortunate accident that has incapacitated her and she is just waiting for her husband to rescue her. The overwhelmingly more likely scenario is that she is wherever she is, doing whatever she is doing, by choice and free will - just like she was on her trip away - and she would now want, nor accept, nor appreciate, her husband's intervention.

 

Again, I say if he wants to confirm her safety for the sake of the children, I don't see anything wrong with jumping straight to Item 12, and calling her parents and laying it out for them. Even if they are "hiding" her, they should be willing to at least respond in general terms about their awareness of her safety, for the comfort and reassurance of their own grandchildren.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Trimmer

[LifesontheUp]

if he wants to confirm her safety for the sake of the children, I don't see anything wrong with jumping straight to Item 12, and calling her parents and laying it out for them. Even if they are "hiding" her, they should be willing to at least respond in general terms about their awareness of her safety, for the comfort and reassurance of their own grandchildren.

 

Sorry you are going through this Saul.

 

If your kids are upset and wondering where their mother is I would approach the grand parents too.

[PegNosePete]

Oh right thanks Trimmer

 

Yeah I agree call the parents and ask them, not for her location, just confirmation of her safety. They might not even know she's had an affair or left the OP so it would also be a good way of telling them what's going on, without being malicious. Even if they do know where she is and don't want to say anything, then their response (lack of concern for her safety) should let you know she's OK.

[Yasuandio]

Something happened before Wife's free will kicked in, Mr. Trimmer. You continue to overlook the effects of the "Got-Cha." Like I told you, if that happened to me, and my husband carried on such a plot, I would have been in such shock I would have swollowed my tounge.

 

Snapped out of the fog thu those means - the shock and fear would momentarily seem so impossible to get past that I personally would have considered suiside. I suppose reflecting on how I might percieve this has stimulated sympathy in my heart for your wife and salvation of your mariage, Saul. I cannot appologize for being concerned about her, and I remain so. Thank goodness she is not me. I do not have to express my sympathy anymore. I certainly did not mean to be an irritant. Prayers, and Good Luck, Saul.

 

(In a missing person report, police might ask, what state of mind was your Wife in when she left? Was it normal? Did you have a fight? What occurred before she left?)