Any legal tips for a BS here?

[LifesontheUp]

Something happened before Wife's free will kicked in, Mr. Trimmer. You continue to overlook the effects of the "Got-Cha." Like I told you, if that happened to me, and my husband carried on such a plot, I would have been in such shock I would have swollowed my tounge.

 

Snapped out of the fog thu those means - the shock and fear would momentarily seem so impossible to get past that I personally would have considered suiside. I suppose reflecting on how I might percieve this has stimulated sympathy in my heart for your wife and salvation of your mariage, Saul. I cannot appologize for being concerned about her, and I remain so. Thank goodness she is not me. I do not have to express my sympathy anymore. I certainly did not mean to be an irritant. Prayers, and Good Luck, Saul.

 

(In a missing person report, police might ask, what state of mind was your Wife in when she left? Was it normal? Did you have a fight? What occurred before she left?)

 

Personally having read the thread I think she ran off because she was planning to leave anyway and Saul calling her out made her realise her game was up. Hope she is truly embarrassed for what she has done.

[marqueemoon4]

Personally having read the thread I think she ran off because she was planning to leave anyway and Saul calling her out made her realise her game was up. Hope she is truly embarrassed for what she has done.

 

I wouldn't bet on it.

[LifesontheUp]

I wouldn't bet on it.

 

I'm hoping you mean the embarrassed bit.

[Saul Goodman]

Personally having read the thread I think she ran off because she was planning to leave anyway and Saul calling her out made her realise her game was up. Hope she is truly embarrassed for what she has done.

 

That was my opinion too. This all seems too well planned to just be a fit. I did call up her parents again yesterday. Nothing useful.

 

Anyway, my wife decided to text me one week after d-day (why exactly one week anyway?). Moving to Michigan (f_ck). Meant everything that I said. Take care of the kids. Don't waste your time looking for me. Don't contact me, I'll contact you. She used to go yachting a lot when she was younger.

 

So Yas, she's perfectly fine.

 

This would be a good time to contact the BW. Agreed?

 

Anyway, thanks for the "legal tips" everyone. Have a good day. It's been a bad day at work for me (she texted me in the late morning so there is a lot to think about right now). I'll be going through some legal bullsh_t for the next few weeks sorting everything out, so I don't expect to post much here for a while.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[GorillaTheater]

I'm sorry Saul. Just do what you have to do as quickly as possible. And you bet I'd be going for full custody plus child support. Hug your kids. Reassure them that nothing they did caused this. Damn...

[andyg99]

That was my opinion too. This all seems too well planned to just be a fit. I did call up her parents again yesterday. Nothing useful.

 

Anyway, my wife decided to text me one week after d-day (why exactly one week anyway?). Moving to Michigan (f_ck). Meant everything that I said. Take care of the kids. Don't waste your time looking for me. Don't contact me, I'll contact you. She used to go yachting a lot when she was younger.

 

So Yas, she's perfectly fine.

 

This would be a good time to contact the BW. Agreed?

 

Anyway, thanks for the "legal tips" everyone. Have a good day. It's been a bad day at work for me (she texted me in the late morning so there is a lot to think about right now). I'll be going through some legal bullsh_t for the next few weeks sorting everything out, so I don't expect to post much here for a while.

 

continue to move forward my friend... you did the right thing - obviously you are a good enough man for her to leave the kids with right? she is a big girl (although acting like a child), get that 100% custody and like I said in another post if she ever changes enough to want to be a mom again you can always modify things... good luck an keep us posted when you have a chance..

[Saul Goodman]

Yeah, I know. Doing what I can.

 

To put it bluntly "This situation is messed up". I mean, what's her plan?

[Trimmer]

Something happened before Wife's free will kicked in, Mr. Trimmer.

You insist that something drove her to her behavior, to the affair and her plans to leave, and then her free will "kicked in." That's when your narrative starts. See, I maintain that her free will was in full force at the time she chose to start the affair, at the time she made secret plans to leave her husband, and all the way through it all.

 

You continue to overlook the effects of the "Got-Cha." Like I told you, if that happened to me, and my husband carried on such a plot, I would have been in such shock I would have swollowed my tounge.

I overlook those effects because you have constructed a logical fallacy.

 

Saul didn't even know about her affair when she chose to start it, so the "gotcha" couldn't have been in play then.

 

Saul didn't know about her affair as she was secretly planning to leave him, so the "gotcha" couldn't have been in play then.

 

Saul didn't know about her affair as she was lying about it in marriage counseling and participating under false pretenses when he was there in good faith, so the "gotcha" couldn't have been in play then.

 

So I overlook those effects because they couldn't have been present, right up until the time he confronted her and she walked out the door, leaving her children behind with no comforting knowledge of her safety. I'll get back to that in a minute.

 

On the other hand, I maintain that she was the one with the "gotcha" game in full swing. She had this secret affair for a whole year and a half. And it wasn't just an affair, she was secretly making plans to leave him - "gotcha!" - and she was participating in marriage counseling under false pretenses - "gotcha!" All of this before he even knew what was going on.

 

So you're right in a roundabout way. Yes there was a "gotcha" game in play here: she was getting everything all lined up, in secret, for some big reveal to come, while Saul was participating in marriage counseling in good faith. Now who was playing "gotcha?"

 

Snapped out of the fog thu those means - the shock and fear would momentarily seem so impossible to get past that I personally would have considered suiside.

Indeed, having the entire "gotcha" game you had so carefully constructed - the lover, the departure plans - so carefully set up over a year and a half, and then to see it all collapse in an instant, would be a huge shock, although it didn't prevent her from simply moving up her schedule and still carrying out her intentions - walking out the door - no suicide needed.

 

(In a missing person report, police might ask, what state of mind was your Wife in when she left? Was it normal? Did you have a fight? What occurred before she left?)

And when he answered that he had recently discovered that she had been having an affair for a year and a half, and that she was planning to leave him, and that she had done so of her own free will once confronted with the evidence, they might ask: do you have any reason to believe she is in danger, or is being prevented from seeking help for herself if she needs it? And when he answered "no", they would probably say "Sir, that's not a missing person."

 

IMO, your Masterplan is no more than a HUGE "Got Cha" Game. I feel certain that this may not be the first time you've engaged in such gaminess.

That completely unsupported inference is the foundation that drives your entire logical fallacy. Because he has quietly prepared to defend himself and their children from his wife's secret actions which will overturn their family, while he was under great emotional trauma, you assume that he has always been duplicitous and sneaky, and then further extend your fallacy to assume that this drove her to act as she has, before her "free will kicked in" as you put it. This is not at all supported by the narrative, and is not even a sensible inference. In fact, his wife's history going back at least a year and a half, is more compelling evidence that she is the naturally more duplicitous and sneaky one, even without any provocation of intense family trauma to drive her. She did all that on her own.

 

And finally, even setting aside all that, let's do a little thought experiment here, and posit that she was a relatively normal wife and mother, somehow in a bad marriage dynamic, maybe even driven by the deficits and failures of her husband. I don't believe this, but let's see where those assumptions lead us.

 

It's unfortunate, but still believable that a fundamentally sound person would respond to that by accepting the opportunity to start a year-and-a-half long affair.

 

As hard as it is to swallow, it is still believable that such a person would make secret plans to leave her spouse.

 

Still getting harder, it is painful to consider that such a person would participate in marriage counseling with all this going on, under false pretenses of working on the marriage, and just lie through it all.

 

But it's nearly impossible to imagine this "normal", balanced wife and mother - to whom we gave the benefit of the doubt in accepting the unfortunate sequence above - would move away and leave her children behind without any apparent concern about reassuring them of her safety, her love, or her continued presence in their lives:

Moving to Michigan (f_ck). Meant everything that I said. Take care of the kids. Don't waste your time looking for me. Don't contact me, I'll contact you.

My god - even if you manage to accept the image of her as some kind of bored or aggrieved, affair-hiding, departure-planning, MC-lying, walk-away-wife, how can you possibly make sense of just up and disappearing on her kids?

[LifesontheUp]

I worked with someone whose wife upped and left him and their teen kids for an OM. She was so hell bent on being with OM who was her high school sweetheart that she didn't bother with her kids either. So quite frankly I can believe this is what's happened here.

 

Sorry for what you are going through. Take care of you and your kids.

[Yasuandio]

Dear Mr. Trimmer,

 

I could not comprehend some of what you wrote regarding my posts in your recent analysis of my contributions. However, thank you for extending what had to be oodles of time, in "straightening me out."

 

I think the book I pulled off the shelf is just perfect. It was a difficult book, and took me two years to fully absorb. It's called "Malignant Self Love," By Sam Vaknin. Thank goodness I don't have Crack It.

 

Have a Nice Day Mr. Trimmed, Yas

 

Saul, I so very dissapointed in how your story has ended. I so wish you had the chance to talk to her before she up and left. Do not form any conclusions until you know all the facts - you hear me? All you know is what is written in the text. I think you need to call the OM, since he has particlated in the break-up of your family at this time. You remain her husband and the father of her children.

 

This situation is still fluid at this moment. Get all the facts. It's not over till it's over. There are people that do not like my take, and that is fine. I fail to see why making a person's safety the priority (even if it turns out they were monkeying around).

 

You are justifably angry, and confused. Anger is an emotion just like hate. You cannot feel this without having potitive feeling for her. You must do the legal matters since she has left and stated in writing that she has no intention on coming back. It is possible, Saul, that she is in Michigan alone. There are many things possible. That text could have also been a cry for help. If you recieve a text -you now have a contact number. At least check on her, let the kids speak to her.

 

Saul, anytime you do not wish my point of view, just say so.

[andyg99]

I worked with someone whose wife upped and left him and their teen kids for an OM. She was so hell bent on being with OM who was her high school sweetheart that she didn't bother with her kids either. So quite frankly I can believe this is what's happened here.

 

Sorry for what you are going through. Take care of you and your kids.

 

women and men who walk out on minor children have no soul - as a parent 99.9% of us would jump in front of a train without thinking if it would keep our kids from harm, parents who put their happiness above their child's well being are basically f-d in the head...

Edited August 20, 2011 by andyg99

[LifesontheUp]

That text could have also been a cry for help. If you recieve a text -you now have a contact number. At least check on her, let the kids speak to her.

 

I'm puzzled that someone putting in a text stating "don't contact me, I'll contact you" could be a cry for help.

 

As far as I can see there has been deceit for at least a year and half by Sauls wife. Looks like she had a plan which didn't include Saul or her kids.

Edited August 20, 2011 by LifesontheUp

[Yasuandio]

I'm puzzled that someone putting in a text stating "don't contact me, I'll contact you" could be a cry for help.

 

As far as I can see there has been deceit for at least a year and half by Sauls wife. Looks like she had a plan which didn't include Saul or her kids.

 

 

It is possible, it's a "cry for help.". I didn't's say what kind of help. A cry for help could mean many, many things. The good thing about a "cry of help" is that you can hear it, and it can be answered. However "cry of help" is only one angle. I want to believe the best about people, however, I agree it is possible that other descriptors may fit as well (and/or varying combinations of them):

 

1. She's suffering, confused, and totally paranoid.

 

2. She is cold as stone, cruel, caculating, non-human, and doesn't give a whip about her own offsping? it's so warped I don't want to believe there is a woman with that MO.

 

3. Fog is so strong - it causes people to do insane, unexpected, unpredictable acts.

 

I will not yet automatically buy into #2 as the final answer here, yet.

 

Saul, she is the mother of your children. While you and many in the forum perceive her negatively - you must reach out to her, and extend a plan for her to be in contact with her kids. This will be good for the kids, and will illustrate to the judge what an outstanding father you are.

 

Remember Saul - we all say and do things we don't mean when we are angry or confused. What could be a more confusing scenerio? I am not condoning what your wife did, I am now trying to perseve your relationship with the mother of your children. Don't do anything to jepordize that. Do not elevate her anger. The kids Need to hear from her and you need to do everything possible to make this happen. I believe this is the right thing to do.

 

If you have a text, you have a number. I am so sorry for this loss, Saul. And I am so sorry for the tragic and painful circumstances you are enduring. Y

Edited August 20, 2011 by Yasuandio

[LifesontheUp]

The point you are missing her Yas is that as a mother she has responsibilities. SHE knows where her kids are and has CHOSEN not to contact them. Thats on HER and NOBODY else.

[andyg99]

The point you are missing her Yas is that as a mother she has responsibilities. SHE knows where her kids are and has CHOSEN not to contact them. Thats on HER and NOBODY else.

 

bingo! this is a grown woman here... SHE has chosen to abandon her kids, she has made it clear: "don't contact me"... this fog people talk about is just some lame excuse, when someone choses to leave after much planning trust me, there ain't no fog involved...

[2011aug]

bingo! this is a grown woman here... SHE has chosen to abandon her kids, she has made it clear: "don't contact me"... this fog people talk about is just some lame excuse, when someone choses to leave after much planning trust me, there ain't no fog involved...

 

makes sense to me,

[John Michael Kane]

All you BSers have "cheater's fog" and cannot see that there are two sides to this issue. I am on neither side. I am just concerned about 1-12 right now. Is she safe?

 

Good luck, Carol

 

That's not the point of this discussion and you're off course. Nothing drove her to her affair except her.

[TroyNJ]

that's not the point of this discussion and you're off course. Nothing drove her to her affair except her.

 

amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Yasuandio]

The point you are missing her Yas is that as a mother she has responsibilities. SHE knows where her kids are and has CHOSEN not to contact them. Thats on HER and NOBODY else.

 

Mr./Ms. Lifesonthetop,

 

Based on this resonse and the continuation you shared thereafter, I have become enlightened. I now "get" a point of view that will always be impossible for me to grasp a d fully understand.

 

I never had children. Never wanted them. Never will want them. Avoid them at all costs. If a baby, or child, or teen, for that matter, comes any where near my scope of sight (and I do spot them early, from any angle, as my perririfea is trained to spot their pattern of movement) I'M GONE.

 

I don't hate them. Their movements and sounds cause me great discomfort. I believe children are the most beautiful creatures God puts on this Earth. I love to observe them (behind glass for research purposes).

 

The above qualifies me as a POOR participant in our discussions regarding Motherhood. I am very sorry to attempt to broach said topic I will never, ever know, much less understand. Sorry guys.

[Steen719]

women and men who walk out on minor children have no soul - as a parent 99.9% of us would jump in front of a train without thinking if it would keep our kids from harm, parents who put their happiness above their child's well being are basically f-d in the head...

 

I just had this conversation with a friend whose girlfriend just does not understand the time spent with friend's daughter and resents the fact that she is not first and can't be right now (physically, that is...homework, movies, volleyball games, etc.) I told my friend, it is just really hard to understand if you do not have kids. Take the most love you can feel for another person and multiply it by 100 at least and then throw in the desire to protect and ensure another person's safety and happiness and that doesn't begin to describe how much you can love your kids. I just cannot imagine not having been there for my son...but that's me.

[andyg99]

I just had this conversation with a friend whose girlfriend just does not understand the time spent with friend's daughter and resents the fact that she is not first and can't be right now (physically, that is...homework, movies, volleyball games, etc.) I told my friend, it is just really hard to understand if you do not have kids. Take the most love you can feel for another person and multiply it by 100 at least and then throw in the desire to protect and ensure another person's safety and happiness and that doesn't begin to describe how much you can love your kids. I just cannot imagine not having been there for my son...but that's me.

 

hopefully your friend will realize that it's better he stay out of that kind of relationship... I made the decision early on after my divorce that kids come first - and to me that meant I stayed single and mostly alone for 15 years and counting... I had a few flings but they knew where I stood so I never led anyone on. A few months ago my daughter who is now 21 thanked me for what I did, she basically said I was the stability her and her brothers needed growing up - and by stable it meant not giving my time with them to anyone else or mixing families. Their time with mom was pretty crazy.... if someone can't understand the time involved with kids they have no business being with someone who does have kids.

 

BTW - I'm not knocking anyone who has re-married and blended families together. If it works for them then great, but it wasn't for me....

[Steen719]

"hopefully your friend will realize that it's better he stay out of that kind of relationship"

 

Yeah, they are no longer seeing each other. The daughter came first to my friend and that was that. I had to laugh at my son the other day. He will be 21 in Oct. He asked me if after his dad and I divorced, did I think I would marry again? I said no. He asked if I would date and I said, well, maybe down the road some. He said, I won't like it, but I guess I can get used to it, but I don't want anyone acting like my dad. I laughed and said the men I would date would be old enough that their kids are grown. They don't want any other children. He grinned at me..yeah you're up there, mom!

[Saul Goodman]

Suffering from insomnia these past few days. Damn it's late. What do you guys recommend? Sleeping pills don't seem to work on me. Tried a 2 hour work out, but I seem to perk up pretty quickly afterwards, which never used to happen.

 

Kids aren't doing well. I'm doing my best for them, but jeeezus, there is so little that I can say or do for them when they ask about their mother, that will make them feel better. Counselor hasn't been too useful. I plan on taking them on a holiday or something.

 

Anyway, been speaking to my lawyer. The fact that my wife has done a runner has simplified a lot of the paper work (because she isn't there). It's also made some of it more complicated (because she isn't there). Hmph, I think you all know what I mean.

 

I'm really starting to miss her. Not the angry, lying, manipulative, apathetic woman that left her family, but the cheerful, beautiful, intelligent woman that used to love to play the violin (really well) every night. She has the most incredible smile (I f_cking well can't put it into words). Reminiscing is a good way to get depressed.

 

Can I ask you something Yas (everybody else can answer this too, if they want)? Have you ever reached that point where you have done everything that you can, and just given up? I reached that point a while ago. My wife doesn't want or need my help.

 

I've sent some papers over to the BW's workplace anonymously. No contact from her. Presumably the mOM will pull some crazy stunt off soon enough.

 

Bleh, I don't know.

[carhill]

One day at a time. Try to do one positive thing each day and focus on that even if the rest of the day goes to shyte.

 

Regarding the insomnia thing, I used melatonin (a natural aid) most of the time during the worst parts of my D and hit the anti-psychotics when things got particularly bad. I don't recommend that, but had a ton of them and was familiar with how they worked. 50mg of Seroquel left me a bit rumdum the next day but at least I got solid sleep. Sleep deprivation is a killer. BTDT.

 

You'll make it. Remembering the 'good' parts of the M is completely normal. For me, remembering those things and who I was when I loved keeps me centered and positive about marriage and relationships in general. Nothing wrong with that. In time, the romantic longing will fade and be replaced with a calm. You have a great distraction and gift that I didn't/don't; your children. Life gives us gifts. Cherish yours.

[Saul Goodman]

One day at a time. Try to do one positive thing each day and focus on that even if the rest of the day goes to shyte.

 

Regarding the insomnia thing, I used melatonin (a natural aid) most of the time during the worst parts of my D and hit the anti-psychotics when things got particularly bad. I don't recommend that, but had a ton of them and was familiar with how they worked. 50mg of Seroquel left me a bit rumdum the next day but at least I got solid sleep. Sleep deprivation is a killer. BTDT.

 

You'll make it. Remembering the 'good' parts of the M is completely normal. For me, remembering those things and who I was when I loved keeps me centered and positive about marriage and relationships in general. Nothing wrong with that. In time, the romantic longing will fade and be replaced with a calm. You have a great distraction and gift that I didn't/don't; your children. Life gives us gifts. Cherish yours.

 

Yep, know what you mean carhill. Life is a crazy SOB and that's just the way I like it. I'd hate to become so jaded.

 

Might see a doctor if the insomnia continues. I'll read up on melatonin.

 

Crazy thing about my kids, I got them to laugh at a bad joke yesterday. Haven't seen them do that for a while now.