25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?

[2sunny]

Incredible!

 

Did she OWN her behavior? The avoiding? Disrespect and disregard too? Or did she try to make that your fault?

 

 

And what exactly - is HER intention at this point? I'd want to know!!!

 

Does she expect she can't treat you like crap and then pretend like that's ok? What is her plan of ACTION?

 

Change - much needed change - what's the plan now?

[2sunny]

I think you think ignoring and avoiding your husband is ok... It's not!

 

This is how I see her behavior from last night as trying to get YOU to settle for less and be quiet!

 

Her plan tends to work with you - mainly because you care more about how she feels than she does.

 

Things are off balance Nick. Stand firm on what you require to be happy. Don't settle now... It's crunch time for her to get motivated by being uncomfortable!

 

She not intending to change? Let's see if she may get motivated to go to any length to change!

[2sunny]

One thing you don't acknowledge - she KNOWS full well when she participates this way it HURTS YOU - yet she keeps doing it over and over!

 

THAt is intentional at this point!

[NickFeek]

Incredible!

 

Did she OWN her behavior? The avoiding? Disrespect and disregard too? Or did she try to make that your fault?

 

And what exactly - is HER intention at this point? I'd want to know!!!

 

Does she expect she can't treat you like crap and then pretend like that's ok? What is her plan of ACTION?

 

Change - much needed change - what's the plan now?

 

She did own her avoiding behavior, and most of the disregard, but not disrespect. I wouldn't say she was making anything my fault based on what I'm doing now, more based on what I did.

 

I was unable to find out her intention. She doesn't know. She doesn't have a plan of action, or know at all what she wants.

 

We do both agree that we want this to end one way or another. We're worn out.

[NickFeek]

I think you think ignoring and avoiding your husband is ok... It's not!

 

This is how I see her behavior from last night as trying to get YOU to settle for less and be quiet!

 

Her plan tends to work with you - mainly because you care more about how she feels than she does.

 

Things are off balance Nick. Stand firm on what you require to be happy. Don't settle now... It's crunch time for her to get motivated by being uncomfortable!

 

She not intending to change? Let's see if she may get motivated to go to any length to change!

 

Very interesting way to see it. I'm really not sure. At this point she SO does not want to be around me most of the time that I don't think she's thinking much about what I'd be willing to settle for. Again, if that's the case it's got to be subconscious.

 

I can tell you this. We've tried her way. We've tried therapy. I abandoned my way when therapy started. No more. If this is how far she's gone (or not gone), I will just not compromise anymore. And my gut is she will NOT go far enough change-wise to make any difference. But we'll see.

[NickFeek]

One thing you don't acknowledge - she KNOWS full well when she participates this way it HURTS YOU - yet she keeps doing it over and over!

 

THAt is intentional at this point!

 

I wonder about this. I know she MUST know that running away & diving into work & the kids is deliberately ignoring me and our problems, and that it hurts. I just think she's so far gone down the rabbit hole that she doesn't see it as it happens. I can tell she knows it today, and feels bad about it. But I'm so tired of the ride with her driving that I am just done. And I told her that - I'm done fighting, done trying to figure out what SHE should do, done compromising on things that are damn reasonable. Furthermore, if she doesn't come to Friday's session, I can't see how we're supposed to proceed as a couple.

[StandingO]

I can only speak from my own experience. Your wife is very much like my ex. She was so busy working, always negative, no sex drive, never wanted to try to add spice. When I brought up my frustrations she would not try too change or it lasted like 2 months. She was not happy and I was not happy. She would not change so I did. I felt her. Today I am much happier. I can not speaker for her. Bottom line is if deep down you really want to make your marriage work then do all you can first. If deep down you are not interested in saving your marriage it is time to go. Why should we spend the rest of lives frustrated and miserable.

[2sunny]

SHE has demons she needs to tackle. You can't do it for her!

 

I'd tell her to go to every weekly counseling session on her own for afewmonths. THeN the therapist might focus solely on HER!

 

If she not willing to do that - you know she doesn't intend to face her fears and grow (her intent=avoid).

 

Friday should be her day to either step up or step out.

[findingnemo]

I've followed this thread and read every post. I'm practically invested in it emotionally. I think Nick's W's stand is quite clear. She wants to DO NOTHING and CHANGE NOTHING. She doesn't want a divorce either.

 

Nick, 25 years of M is worth fighting for, yes. But 7 months is a bloody long time to be begging and pleading for love; to be trying to change things that have gone on for years. Have some pity on yourself please. How long will you sustain this without going mad? Can you sustain another 20 years getting comfort from everybody but your W? You can't really say you're rebuilding a M that was problematic. You'd need a whole new M and perhaps it's time to recognize that a leopard cannot change its spots. She isn't doing anything different from before. Yes you love her and she loves you. But is the love she gives you enough?

 

You are like a man who suffers from unrequited love! The irony is that you're married to the object of that love and STILL you suffer. What's the use really? What has to happen for you to say ENOUGH? I'm not telling you to pack up and leave. I dont think it will solve the problem. I think you should work on accepting that you will never get what you want from her. Once you accept this, what she does will not affect you anymore. You can keep living together like business partners for the sake of your kids. Stop trying to get her to change. She can't and won't and maybe there's a very good reason for this. Whatever her issues are, it must be extremely stressful for her right now. The result is that she'll bury herself more and more in her work.

 

Give up! Let go! Replace her in your heart with your kids and things you love to do. She will relax a bit in her own home and your personal acceptance of the situation will give you the peace in which to grow and find your way to a better place, a better life. You've put in too much work. Have mercy on yourself.

[knitwit]

Hi Nick,

 

I am sorry to read about this turn of events, but I am not surprised. I was very concerned when I read the lengths your wife went to the other night to avoid spending time with you. That was a major statement from her that she does not want to interact or get close to you.

 

This is why my question to you was, Do you think SHE is close to walking out? I know you are exhausted and frustrated and near the end of your rope, but I still think you have some love for her and your family unit. On the other hand- I think your wife is very close to just being done.

 

I cannot go along with the majority of posters here. Truly, I have only ever seen a BS so maligned on an Other Woman site. Almost all of your wife's behaviors can be explained as reactions to your infidelity and simply, your wife is not in love with you. You have failed to win to her back to you.

 

I didn't read all the posts, but I did a few spot checks. Your wife has told you that she doesn't feel appreciated, or respected, but most consistently, she has told you that she isn't sure she wants to stay married to you.

 

And why should she? What have you offered to her that would entice her to stay? You have been very focused on what she is or isn't doing, but what have YOU done to win her love? To let her know that you are trustworthy? You have tried to change HER, and that is the path to divorce.

 

Somewhere in the threads you indicated that your infidelity has allowed her to not work on some of her issues. It sounded to me like you were saying that she is now able to duck these issues.

 

Well, yeah! Of course!

 

Imagine your marriage as a house. The two of you built it together, but it started to fall apart due to neglect over 25 years. You both are responsible for its upkeep.

 

Your affair is akin to you taking gasoline, spilling it all over the house, and setting it afire. You were like an arsonist. You made a decision all on your own to destroy the structure that housed you, your wife, your children, etc. You did all on your own.

 

In the aftermath, you and your wife have to decide what to do. You can decide to rebuild or you can decide to walk away, but either way, there is no going back.

 

Since then, you have tried to convince her (or at least LS) that her part of the neglect was just as bad as you independently burning down the house. Then you gave her ultimatums as to what SHE had to do for YOU to consider trying to rebuild (e.g. therapy, even though she told you she didn't want to do therapy). Now, you have issues because she still isn't doing what YOU want her to do in the therapy. So far, she is being told how she can improve part of the house, but not what you plan to do or how you plan to make the arson up to her.

 

To wrap up the house metaphor- the two of you are discussing rebuilding, starting to work on the very basics. However, there is a BIG problem- you still have that can of gasoline around. You say you won't use it, you will never use it again to burn down the house, but won't get rid of it. It is an essential part of your job and you can't or won't do without it.

 

If your wife is smart- and I am pretty sure she is quite smart- she will never trust you around that can of gasoline. She will know you have it near you just about every day. It will always be an option, always a temptation, even if you SAY you will never use it again. There is just NO WAY a smart woman can recover from your infidelity in this situation.

 

Obviously, I am talking about your OW. It is nice that your wife feels that you will be worse off without the job, but this is Affair 101. If you have any hope of recovery, you have to find a way to leave the job. You might not be able to afford it now, but at least get a plan in action on when you can leave and take the steps needed to get there. Show your wife you mean business by getting rid of that gasoline can!

 

Until you can show her that you are safe, willing, and able to rebuild with her, how can she put her heart into working with you?

 

Nick, I am saying all this because I think you are REALLY trying, but you are not hitting the right chords, so to speak. You are spending all this time and emotional energy and it is getting you and your wife in the hole rather than above ground.

 

You need a workable PLAN for recovery from infidelity. Usually the plan is something along the lines of

 

1. No contact and begin to change your life so that infidelity becomes extremely difficult (e.g., transparency, passwords, time accountability)

 

2. Find out the emotional needs of the other and begin to fill them (from what your wife has told you, I suspect at least some of them are admiration, domestic support, family committment).

 

Nick, there is no one on the planet who knows your wife better than you do. There is no one who has a better chance of filling her needs and making her fall in love. There is no one who will love her kids like you do ( and vice versa).

 

I do not blame you or her if either one of you are just done. I don't think you are doomed to a miserable life if you divorce, and I don't think your kids are doomed in the case of divorce, either. However, after growing up together, spending your entire adult lives together, and having your family together- chances are high that the greatest happiness for the two of you is if you can get through this together.

 

I have to get back to work, but I do have one more suggestion: start a thread in the Infidelity section. If you have anything left to give your marriage, then go there and see what the people like Owl, Sparks, Seren, etc have to say. They are in recovered/recovering marriages and they can let you know what did or did not work.

 

And one last thing- it is not over until it is over. Even if you or your wife walks out today, there is an emotional rollcoaster to ride and usually a lot of time before a divorce is final. You have a while to go yet regardless of the path or outcome. Good luck and please keep posting!

[NickFeek]

I can only speak from my own experience. Your wife is very much like my ex. She was so busy working, always negative, no sex drive, never wanted to try to add spice. When I brought up my frustrations she would not try too change or it lasted like 2 months. She was not happy and I was not happy. She would not change so I did. I felt her. Today I am much happier. I can not speaker for her. Bottom line is if deep down you really want to make your marriage work then do all you can first. If deep down you are not interested in saving your marriage it is time to go. Why should we spend the rest of lives frustrated and miserable.

 

Well put, and your situation does sound very much like mine. For whatever crazy reasons, I AM still interested in saving the marriage. But after this last stretch of days I'm very much LESS interested in doing it on her terms. MUTUAL terms, yes. But her version of happy, no.

[NickFeek]

SHE has demons she needs to tackle. You can't do it for her!

 

I'd tell her to go to every weekly counseling session on her own for afewmonths. THeN the therapist might focus solely on HER!

 

If she not willing to do that - you know she doesn't intend to face her fears and grow (her intent=avoid).

 

Friday should be her day to either step up or step out.

 

I am totally in agreement on what tomorrow has to be. And I am going to make sure we bring up the need to tackle her demons. I really don't have much hope, but she HAS been much more solicitous this last day or so, so who knows.

[NickFeek]

You ask great questions. I've excerpted just so I can stay focused - not totally lucid the last two days!

 

She wants to DO NOTHING and CHANGE NOTHING. She doesn't want a divorce either.

 

This is the boat we're in. I'm fairly certain she'd be happy going back to what we had with only slight modifications - surface changes that are important but would not alter the beast. I also don't really want a divorce. Thus follows the next parts of your posting.

 

How long will you sustain this without going mad? Can you sustain another 20 years getting comfort from everybody but your W? You can't really say you're rebuilding a M that was problematic. You'd need a whole new M and perhaps it's time to recognize that a leopard cannot change its spots. She isn't doing anything different from before. Yes you love her and she loves you. But is the love she gives you enough?

 

I can't sustain it any longer, not after this last half week. I'm just drained of compromise-ability. I think there were things we'd both like to rebuild, but she'd certainly list more of those than I would. I am definitely looking for fundamental changes. If it's true, though, that she can't change her spots - and all evidence points to yes on that - then I have to acknowledge I will never get the love I want from her. So then....

 

You are like a man who suffers from unrequited love! The irony is that you're married to the object of that love and STILL you suffer. What's the use really? What has to happen for you to say ENOUGH? I'm not telling you to pack up and leave. I dont think it will solve the problem. I think you should work on accepting that you will never get what you want from her. Once you accept this, what she does will not affect you anymore. You can keep living together like business partners for the sake of your kids. Stop trying to get her to change. She can't and won't and maybe there's a very good reason for this. Whatever her issues are, it must be extremely stressful for her right now. The result is that she'll bury herself more and more in her work.

 

That bolded passage is the essence of all 95 of these pages of postings. I told her two nights ago that even through all her expression of disillusionment & defeat I can look in her eyes and see A. she does love me, but moreover B. I STILL, after all these years of trying & failing, can see the her I truly love, the her I want to be present & active. But if she's not willing or able to bring THAT HER out, I may have to lean towards making this a kid/cofriend arrangement, and move on with other things.

 

Give up! Let go! Replace her in your heart with your kids and things you love to do. She will relax a bit in her own home and your personal acceptance of the situation will give you the peace in which to grow and find your way to a better place, a better life. You've put in too much work. Have mercy on yourself.

 

I have spent the last few years replacing her, and it ended up hurting us both more than I expected it would. But at this point it may be the way to go. I want us BOTH to feel less pressure & pain. It really would be better for us if we just stopped obligating ourselves to follow each other's needs & restrictions.

[NickFeek]

Very thorough post! And a bit overwhelming to be honest. I'll try to get to everything.

 

This is why my question to you was, Do you think SHE is close to walking out? I know you are exhausted and frustrated and near the end of your rope, but I still think you have some love for her and your family unit. On the other hand- I think your wife is very close to just being done.

 

It's a painfully open question. As of two nights ago, she was MORE than ready to walk out. NOW it seems like she's bounced wayyyy back in our direction.

 

Almost all of your wife's behaviors can be explained as reactions to your infidelity and simply, your wife is not in love with you. You have failed to win to her back to you.

 

This is true as far as it goes - meaning the last year or so. What, however, would explain her near IDENTICAL behavior over the previous 20 years?

 

What have you offered to her that would entice her to stay? You have been very focused on what she is or isn't doing, but what have YOU done to win her love? To let her know that you are trustworthy? You have tried to change HER, and that is the path to divorce.

 

I have certainly been ham-fisted very often. I have also been quite clear about what we BOTH need to change. I'm doing my best to better understand her needs & the ways in which she feels I've neglected or hurt her. But that does not mean I'm the sole person on the hot seat.

 

Somewhere in the threads you indicated that your infidelity has allowed her to not work on some of her issues. It sounded to me like you were saying that she is now able to duck these issues.

 

Well, yeah! Of course!

 

Imagine your marriage as a house. The two of you built it together, but it started to fall apart due to neglect over 25 years. You both are responsible for its upkeep.

 

Your affair is akin to you taking gasoline, spilling it all over the house, and setting it afire. You were like an arsonist. You made a decision all on your own to destroy the structure that housed you, your wife, your children, etc. You did all on your own.

 

In the aftermath, you and your wife have to decide what to do. You can decide to rebuild or you can decide to walk away, but either way, there is no going back.

 

Since then, you have tried to convince her (or at least LS) that her part of the neglect was just as bad as you independently burning down the house. Then you gave her ultimatums as to what SHE had to do for YOU to consider trying to rebuild (e.g. therapy, even though she told you she didn't want to do therapy). Now, you have issues because she still isn't doing what YOU want her to do in the therapy. So far, she is being told how she can improve part of the house, but not what you plan to do or how you plan to make the arson up to her.

 

To wrap up the house metaphor- the two of you are discussing rebuilding, starting to work on the very basics. However, there is a BIG problem- you still have that can of gasoline around. You say you won't use it, you will never use it again to burn down the house, but won't get rid of it. It is an essential part of your job and you can't or won't do without it.

 

If your wife is smart- and I am pretty sure she is quite smart- she will never trust you around that can of gasoline. She will know you have it near you just about every day. It will always be an option, always a temptation, even if you SAY you will never use it again. There is just NO WAY a smart woman can recover from your infidelity in this situation.

 

Obviously, I am talking about your OW. It is nice that your wife feels that you will be worse off without the job, but this is Affair 101. If you have any hope of recovery, you have to find a way to leave the job. You might not be able to afford it now, but at least get a plan in action on when you can leave and take the steps needed to get there. Show your wife you mean business by getting rid of that gasoline can!

 

Until you can show her that you are safe, willing, and able to rebuild with her, how can she put her heart into working with you?

 

Nick, I am saying all this because I think you are REALLY trying, but you are not hitting the right chords, so to speak. You are spending all this time and emotional energy and it is getting you and your wife in the hole rather than above ground.

 

In a perfectly black & white situation, I'd agree with you. And I do have a long term plan to move away from the company. But it won't happen soon enough for her to avoid more hurt. And the thing is, there is NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that her pattern of emotional/physical reclusiveness & neglect over the SPAN of our relationship is a giant factor in where we have ended up. Did I cheat & lie all on my own? Absolutely. Does her past behavior excuse me from that? Not in the least. Do we both need to recover from what I did? Yes, of course. But there is NO EXCUSE for her not dealing with ALL of our issues. I do not in any way buy the argument that all of a sudden the MOST IMPORTANT issue in our marriage is my infidelity. Is it a killer? No question. But there is no way we BOTH can move on & rebuild something we're BOTH satisfied with until we BOTH own up to EVERYTHING we've done.

 

I do completely understand how she & you feel about my continued involvement with the company. But since my actual business involvement with the OW has gone from 100% to 5-10%, and my personal involvement is nil, I can't simply abandon something that important to me & others who have worked so hard. She has to come to the table with WAY MORE for me to ever consider that.

 

You need a workable PLAN for recovery from infidelity. Usually the plan is something along the lines of

 

1. No contact and begin to change your life so that infidelity becomes extremely difficult (e.g., transparency, passwords, time accountability)

 

2. Find out the emotional needs of the other and begin to fill them (from what your wife has told you, I suspect at least some of them are admiration, domestic support, family committment).

 

We've done the transparency thing. It's helped. We've done the no contact thing. It's helped but has not been enough for her.

 

As to number two, I've been ardently working on that for a good six months. And that does not count the 25 years I've been trying to figure her out. I have spent more time worrying about her emotional & psychological AND physical well being than she has, throughout her whole adult life. She continues to neglect herself, and in doing so gives less to all around her. I'm now done with trying to help her in that way. It's up to her.

 

Nick, there is no one on the planet who knows your wife better than you do. There is no one who has a better chance of filling her needs and making her fall in love. There is no one who will love her kids like you do ( and vice versa).

 

I do not blame you or her if either one of you are just done. I don't think you are doomed to a miserable life if you divorce, and I don't think your kids are doomed in the case of divorce, either. However, after growing up together, spending your entire adult lives together, and having your family together- chances are high that the greatest happiness for the two of you is if you can get through this together.

 

I have to get back to work, but I do have one more suggestion: start a thread in the Infidelity section. If you have anything left to give your marriage, then go there and see what the people like Owl, Sparks, Seren, etc have to say. They are in recovered/recovering marriages and they can let you know what did or did not work.

 

And one last thing- it is not over until it is over. Even if you or your wife walks out today, there is an emotional rollcoaster to ride and usually a lot of time before a divorce is final. You have a while to go yet regardless of the path or outcome. Good luck and please keep posting!

 

I appreciate how you've wrapped this up. We do both have our kids' best interests at heart. I will check out the Infidelity section. Thanks overall.

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by Floridaman

This is good....

May be applicable to my situation.

Need to get mine to be "more vulnerable" in our bedroom....

 

 

Hi. Thanks for reading some of this. I read through a bit of yours and it hurt so much.

 

I feel what you're going through deeply, despite the differing contexts.

 

I can tell you also love your wife so much and would prefer to work it all out rather than separate.

The frustration, pain and loneliness can be unbearable, especially when you know a good deal of your fate is being determined by your spouse and her unwillingness to fully open up and participate.

.

Nick,

Thanks for reading my thread, which is also very long and maybe TMI (sorry, everyone, that wasn't the intent). Posted that to show others what it's like for a guy like me to be in such a situation.

Now understand many spouses -- male AND female -- suffer in sexless marriages, with about half of them being idiotic men who won't provide their wives physical affection.

 

Have some more things I may post in that thread but don't want to reveal some personal things that could reveal who I am, in case she reads the thread (which I've hidden from her).

 

I have been keeping up with your situation and while I can't offer any specific advice -- I've never been on either side of an adulterous situation, in a divorce or had my spouse leave me -- can't give you advice in those areas.

 

Please know, however, you are in my thoughts and prayers. You should consider employing that "weapon" or "ammo" as well.

God hears us wherever we are...

Edited November 10, 2011 by Floridaman

[NickFeek]

Nick,

Thanks for reading my thread, which is also very long and maybe TMI (sorry, everyone, that wasn't the intent). Posted that to show others what it's like for a guy like me to be in such a situation.

Now understand many spouses -- male AND female -- suffer in sexless marriages, with about half of them being idiotic men who won't provide their wives physical affection.

 

Have some more things I may post in that thread but don't want to reveal some personal things that could reveal who I am, in case she reads the thread (which I've hidden from her).

 

I have been keeping up with your situation and while I can't offer any specific advice -- I've never been on either side of an adulterous situation, in a divorce or had my spouse leave me -- can't give you advice in those areas.

 

Please know, however, you are in my thoughts and prayers. You should consider employing that "weapon" or "ammo" as well.

God hears us wherever we are...

 

I understand not wanting to reveal everything. It's hard when you know the more info you give the more accurate the feedback. But caution is a good idea.

 

I'll be thinking of you too. What "weapon" are you referring to?

[Floridaman]

As can't edit my earlier post, want to add this:

 

This other board goes into that. Notice how it's mostly women there who are disappointed in their husbands' lack of attention.

Sexless Marriage board.

http://sexlessmarriage.yuku.com/topic/3860/Member-List?page=1#.Trv58lbN6So

 

I used to participate there, under the screen name of Clarence Rutherford,

http://sexlessmarriage.yuku.com/reply/38195/Member-List#reply-38195

...but got mad at some female posters who berated me over some of my proposed solutions (things I thought would work) and seemed to prefer to remain in their sorry marriages rather than fix them...

Edited November 10, 2011 by Floridaman

[NickFeek]

As can't edit my earlier post, want to add this:

 

This other board goes into that. Notice how it's mostly women there who are disappointed in their husbands' lack of attention.

Sexless Marriage board.

http://sexlessmarriage.yuku.com/topic/3860/Member-List?page=1#.Trv58lbN6So

 

I used to participate there, under the screen name of Clarence Rutherford,

http://sexlessmarriage.yuku.com/reply/38195/Member-List#reply-38195

...but got mad at some female posters there who berated me over some of my proposed solutions (things I thought would work) and seemed to prefer to remain in their sorry marriages rather than fix them...

 

Wow, some great posts there, sad & painful to read but elucidating. I'm going to look more into that. Thanks.

[trippi1432]

Knitwit, very well thought out post.

 

Personally, I wasn't going to post to this thread anymore since it appears that the most important goal here is to sweep the infidelity under the rug, and concentrate on what Nick wants. The problem is, Ms. Nick did put in the appropriate stops to the affair, discovered more about it recently to rehash this hurt that she is supposed to "just get over it already!". She also found this forum where Nick concentrated for pages on her lack of sexually satisfying him and how his one fling of passionate sex was more satisfying than what he had in 25 years.

 

She has brought up her own feelings of neglect prior to the infidelity in therapy, preferring to finally be heard about what she needs from her husband. Emotional support, understanding...all things that Nick says he does, but granted, says she doesn't tell him how. To his defense, she doesn't know how to tell him. Perhaps it took the infidelity for her to wake up and start telling you what she needs. She certainly should have been telling you what she expects after she learned of the affair......to me, it sounds as if the gauntlet was thrown and you only see that as her anger now. She has a right to be angry over the infidelity, she has a right to hurt, she has a right to heal on her own timeline. You know her so well Nick, but once a woman has been pushed to the wall, especially an intelligent woman, once they are done....you don't know them anymore.

 

The wall you are experiencing now with your wife is due to the infidelity....while you may no longer want to deal with it as to you it's "old news", she uses it to get across to you how she has felt all these years from what I got on your feedback on the sessions. Her not wanting to be near you or knowing if she wants to be married to you is her realization that perhaps she hasn't been very happy with the marriage either. Is that a power trip?? No more than you using the affair all this time to try and force her to be the woman you want her to be rather than letting her become the woman she wants to be now. You have presented her with two paths to take...and no doubt you will live with whatever decision she makes.

 

I do hope the best for the both of you, that each of you find happiness...even if that is apart. Sometimes incompatible is just incompatible. People have left marriages for far less reasons than that.

[Floridaman]

Wow, some great posts there, sad & painful to read but elucidating. I'm going to look more into that. Thanks.

Sexual refusal is a bigger issue than I imagined.

Thought it was only me, that there was something "wrong" with me wanting her physically, but always getting rejected.

 

There are several forums that deal with the issue. The one I first got involved with is TheMarriageBed.com, http://www.boards.themarriagebed.com/index.php

a site dedicated to Christian sex improvement, though it has subforums dealing with many other issues couples face, including adultery, pornography, pregnancy, engaged couples, masturbation (in marriage and outside), sexual practices, positions ("snowballing" anyone?), etc., and of course, that great wonderful area known as refusal, where most of my posts are.

http://www.boards.themarriagebed.com/viewforum.php?f=29

 

To view the refusal forum, you have to be a registered member, but anyone is allowed to join.

 

For a bunch of "religious" people, they can get pretty graphic in some of the threads, so read at your own caution !!!

Originally Posted by Floridaman

I have been keeping up with your situation and while I can't offer any specific advice -- I've never been on either side of an adulterous situation, in a divorce or had my spouse leave me -- can't give you advice in those areas.

 

Please know, however, you are in my thoughts and prayers. You should consider employing that "weapon" or "ammo" as well.

God hears us wherever we are...

 

 

I'll be thinking of you too.

What "weapon" are you referring to?

Prayer. Couldn't hurt.

 

Anyone reading my other LS posts knows I'm not some "uptight" or prudish man who looks down on others for their sexual activity, as I've been there....

[2sunny]

What you're not recognizing is her blatant actions - designed to bump you back to a place of expecting no change from her.

 

Ask her - point blank - what is it SHE INTENDS to change!

 

If she can't tell you (and believe me - she knows what you want from her) she doesn't intend to DO things differently - she's just trying to get you to agree to go along with what she offers NOW.

[2sunny]

At this point she holds all the power.

 

The past few days of events shows her that:

 

You are willing to stay even though

 

She treats you unkindly

Tells you she's not wanting to be married

Not gonna show you the love and affection she knows you want

Not willing to change

Not gonna participate

Not gonna face her fears

Not gonna love you like you want to be loved

Not intending to respect and honor you

 

Yet the way YOU participate shows her that you will settle for this.

 

She bumped you waaaay back - to that place where SHE expects YOU to be - and you accepted it by your actions (or inactions).

 

Since you stay - live with what you created - what you agreed to. This IS acceptance.

 

She expects to call the shots (even in her silence and avoiding) and she expects YOU to go along with it. She's just unwilling to tell you most days.

 

You chose! She pulled her trump card and revealed her truth - and you staying (and not knowing what she intends to change) shows her that you will stay no matter how little she pays attention to you.

[NickFeek]

Sexual refusal is a bigger issue than I imagined.

Thought it was only me, that there was something "wrong" with me wanting her physically, but always getting rejected.

 

There are several forums that deal with the issue. The one I first got involved with is TheMarriageBed.com, http://www.boards.themarriagebed.com/index.php

a site dedicated to Christian sex improvement, though it has subforums dealing with many other issues couples face, including adultery, pornography, pregnancy, engaged couples, masturbation (in marriage and outside), sexual practices, positions ("snowballing" anyone?), etc., and of course, that great wonderful area known as refusal, where most of my posts are.

http://www.boards.themarriagebed.com/viewforum.php?f=29

 

To view the refusal forum, you have to be a registered member, but anyone is allowed to join.

 

For a bunch of "religious" people, they can get pretty graphic in some of the threads, so read at your own caution !!!

 

 

Prayer. Couldn't hurt.

 

Anyone reading my other LS posts knows I'm not some "uptight" or prudish man who looks down on others for their sexual activity, as I've been there....

 

Thanks. That's a lot of potential help and info.

 

I would not call myself very religious, but I do pray and I do believe in some benefits of prayer.

[NickFeek]

Knitwit, very well thought out post.

 

Personally, I wasn't going to post to this thread anymore since it appears that the most important goal here is to sweep the infidelity under the rug, and concentrate on what Nick wants. The problem is, Ms. Nick did put in the appropriate stops to the affair, discovered more about it recently to rehash this hurt that she is supposed to "just get over it already!". She also found this forum where Nick concentrated for pages on her lack of sexually satisfying him and how his one fling of passionate sex was more satisfying than what he had in 25 years.

 

She has brought up her own feelings of neglect prior to the infidelity in therapy, preferring to finally be heard about what she needs from her husband. Emotional support, understanding...all things that Nick says he does, but granted, says she doesn't tell him how. To his defense, she doesn't know how to tell him. Perhaps it took the infidelity for her to wake up and start telling you what she needs. She certainly should have been telling you what she expects after she learned of the affair......to me, it sounds as if the gauntlet was thrown and you only see that as her anger now. She has a right to be angry over the infidelity, she has a right to hurt, she has a right to heal on her own timeline. You know her so well Nick, but once a woman has been pushed to the wall, especially an intelligent woman, once they are done....you don't know them anymore.

 

The wall you are experiencing now with your wife is due to the infidelity....while you may no longer want to deal with it as to you it's "old news", she uses it to get across to you how she has felt all these years from what I got on your feedback on the sessions. Her not wanting to be near you or knowing if she wants to be married to you is her realization that perhaps she hasn't been very happy with the marriage either. Is that a power trip?? No more than you using the affair all this time to try and force her to be the woman you want her to be rather than letting her become the woman she wants to be now. You have presented her with two paths to take...and no doubt you will live with whatever decision she makes.

 

I do hope the best for the both of you, that each of you find happiness...even if that is apart. Sometimes incompatible is just incompatible. People have left marriages for far less reasons than that.

 

I have always been willing to deal with my cheating lying anger all around bad behavior from every angle and in any way we need to. But to exclude the preexisting is marriage suicide. To also say that her wall is all about the cheating is ignoring the fact that she's had her wallS up and bolstered for years.

 

I will never minimize what I've done. But I will also not sit back and allow that to consume the entire conversation for the next two years.

[NickFeek]

What you're not recognizing is her blatant actions - designed to bump you back to a place of expecting no change from her.

 

Ask her - point blank - what is it SHE INTENDS to change!

 

If she can't tell you (and believe me - she knows what you want from her) she doesn't intend to DO things differently - she's just trying to get you to agree to go along with what she offers NOW.

 

Now that the flood gates are open, that's exactly what I intend to do. We need things to be more concrete.