Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 So she chooses to leave rather than grow and change... Well - now we can understand why. Her effort and action to change was showing a ton of resistance - so it makes more sense that she chooses to live in her own fear rather than grow through and past that fear. Did she give you any information when she said she's leaving? I'm real sorry Nick, I know you wanted to be hopeful she could get past her pain. Big hugs Thanks 2sunny. As you probably guessed after all this time, I really have always held out hope that she would open up. I've made my efforts - bad & good, patient & not - for decades. She's shown enough glimpses over those years, and enough genuine love, that I figured it was only a matter of serious effort before we'd finally get there. Push has come to shove, and this is now her answer. Like me back in late spring, it's possible she could absorb the reality of her decision & change her mind. But if she does, all bets are off. We clean the slate & start fresh, no conditions other than mutual respect. But right now I don't even think that will happen. She seems dead set on sticking to her guns. And knowing how good she is at that, and how tough it's always been for her to forgive & let go, I think my hope is finally gone. We talked for hours last night, went over a bunch of things. It's not going to be an instantaneous change. It's all a little nebulous frankly. And she seemed so cold & detached from her emotions that I'm convinced she's seriously depressed & making a choice from a bad place. But despite my efforts to understand & help her come at this from a different angle & in the proper context, she has convinced herself her way is the only way, her answer is the only right one. Not really sure what's next, other than moving on.
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 Makes me think she didn't intend to change - her ACTIONS surely weren't showing a gal desperate to participate and make the M a happy place. She's consistent - ill give her that - push you away with disregard - by working too much, being too busy and avoiding the issues... Then blaming you. Her resentments define her core being - that's why she seems so sad about life - yet she won't let go of them, in fact she holds on tighter to define herself further by more resentments. I bet she's resenting your suggestion of counseling too - so much that she won't tell you - but is angry she has to go and participate. Can you find a way to be happy today Nick? Even 5 minutes of happiness... I hope you won't lose track of getting to a happier place for yourself. It's a day off from work today, so I'm doing what I can to find leisure time. Thanks for thinking of me like that. Yes, I agree with all you've said. As to the counseling, I've said to her time & again it's okay if she's not into it, as long as she keeps going there's a chance it will help open her up. SO last night I said the last thing I ask is that she come to our session on Friday. She said no.
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 She's not going to counseling - because she doesn't intend to own how she participates - which is to avoid her feelings at all cost - its the perfect example of how she deals with her life. Now that you know she intends to avoid - expect it! It's her operating method. Her method you wanted changed - but she's not budging! So acceptance on your part is critical. She intends to live in her fear by avoiding.
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 She's not going to counseling - because she doesn't intend to own how she participates - which is to avoid her feelings at all cost - its the perfect example of how she deals with her life. Now that you know she intends to avoid - expect it! It's her operating method. Her method you wanted changed - but she's not budging! So acceptance on your part is critical. She intends to live in her fear by avoiding. I agree. The worst part of the accepting is not how I feel about it, because I've known this resistance intimately forever. It's seeing how it's only going to continue to hurt her, to prevent her from finding real deep & lasting happiness, and could even hurt the kids to a degree. I still love her, and still respect her, with me or not, and will still want the best for her & even want to help her. I will be damn relieved not to have to live under the cloud, but it's going to take a LONG time for me to process & move on from this.
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 I understand you wanting to care for HER happiness more than she does... But it's not healthy to participate THAT way = it's not good balance. When I cared more than my exH about HIM getting happy (back then I thought I could do that for him) I sacrificed my own well being and happiness trying to MAKE him happy. I can tell you - it doesn't work that way - I nearly died trying it! He likes being his angry self... And my happy spirit wasn't gonna change that for him - it gets others to change instead of him. It holds power, it manipulates and controls - and now he's trying it out on his new wife and kids - my kids don't play his shaming and guilt games, they speak their truth to him - he doesn't like it but I've taught them to speak their truth and to have a voice. They've learned to tell him NO when he gets pushy and obsessively controlling (which he does often)! They have learned where their healthy boundary is - they aren't going to sacrifice their own happiness to please him! I learned it after I left the M. They've now learned it by watching my example.
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 I understand you wanting to care for HER happiness more than she does... But it's not healthy to participate THAT way = it's not good balance. When I cared more than my exH about HIM getting happy (back then I thought I could do that for him) I sacrificed my own well being and happiness trying to MAKE him happy. I can tell you - it doesn't work that way - I nearly died trying it! He likes being his angry self... And my happy spirit wasn't gonna change that for him - it gets others to change instead of him. It holds power, it manipulates and controls - and now he's trying it out on his new wife and kids - my kids don't play his shaming and guilt games, they speak their truth to him - he doesn't like it but I've taught them to speak their truth and to have a voice. They've learned to tell him NO when he gets pushy and obsessively controlling (which he does often)! They have learned where their healthy boundary is - they aren't going to sacrifice their own happiness to please him! I learned it after I left the M. They've now learned it by watching my example. I'm amazed at what you've gone through & how well things seemed to have worked out. Especially where the kids are concerned. I'm dreading the day we have to break this news to them, especially our seven year old. He is a naturally sensitive soul & just won't understand. He'll be devastated. I'm confident I can live a happier life in a way that doesn't obligate me to her beyond co-parenting, while still caring for her enough to want the best. I can't imagine us not being friends at some point. We just know each other too well, and have shared pretty much every major & minor event since 1986.
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 I was hanging out with my 22 year old yesterday - he said "I can't imagine you and Dad together anymore"! This was prefaced with our old life - 23 years together and my son was recognizing big time that we are incredibly mismatched! But you would need to know me to understand - you see one part ofme here. I am a true free spirited woman - I fly free, I do what I love, see who I love, and spend time feeling unattached to "things or people" for THAT happiness. My ex is a control freak who settles for nothing if it's not perfect - and likes to make others miserable if it's NOT perfect! I don't DO life like that! You see Nick, happiness comes from within. You can either choose to be happy or not! What is YOUR choice for TODAY?
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 I was hanging out with my 22 year old yesterday - he said "I can't imagine you and Dad together anymore"! This was prefaced with our old life - 23 years together and my son was recognizing big time that we are incredibly mismatched! But you would need to know me to understand - you see one part ofme here. I am a true free spirited woman - I fly free, I do what I love, see who I love, and spend time feeling unattached to "things or people" for THAT happiness. My ex is a control freak who settles for nothing if it's not perfect - and likes to make others miserable if it's NOT perfect! I don't DO life like that! You see Nick, happiness comes from within. You can either choose to be happy or not! What is YOUR choice for TODAY? That sounds wonderful. And I know I'll have tons of great moments with my kids no matter where they are. Just hard when they're so young. I am ready for more happiness. I will get there. Right now my heart hurts - physically hurts like it hasn't in decades.
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 I know....... And I'm real sorry. You gave it all you could and it still didn't change the outcome, it sucks. Get busy living! You need to dump some of that emotional pain somewhere - artistic outlets are good for this critical time! Paint, write or play music! Get it out!
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 I know....... And I'm real sorry. You gave it all you could and it still didn't change the outcome, it sucks. Get busy living! You need to dump some of that emotional pain somewhere - artistic outlets are good for this critical time! Paint, write or play music! Get it out! Way ahead of you on that last one. It's what I do anyway! Thank you so much for everything thus far. I know it's not over yet. I also plan to hang out with some friends & vent as much as I can. And I'm going to enjoy every moment at home with the kids while I can.
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 You CAN have a profound affect on your kids. The idea is to lead by example. Show them what your healthy, happy self looks like - and remind them often that we are meant to be happy! And that they should NEVER settle.
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 You CAN have a profound affect on your kids. The idea is to lead by example. Show them what your healthy, happy self looks like - and remind them often that we are meant to be happy! And that they should NEVER settle. I have been doing my best to do that all through this, and I plan to continue it no matter what. Love your positivity.
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 Now that she has stated her truth by allowing you to understand her intentions - i would allow her some silence from your end... So that she can see what she chose. Are you chasing her today for answers (which you already have) or are you allowing her room to understand her decision and what that brings (nothing from you)?
Steen719 Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 I have read that younger children "deal" with divorce better than older children. I am not saying that what I read was true, but I have thought about that a lot since I was presented with the opportunity to divorce my XH when my son was 7 (H PA) and then did divorce him after 22 years of marriage (H EA) just last month. One of the hardest, absolutely most difficult things for me was talking to my son, who just turned 21, about it. He is smart, intuitive and wants us both to be happy, but it really, really hurts to think about what he must feel. Thanksgiving and Christmas coming up and we are still living in the same house (son at college). (I should talk to you, Sunny) Anyway......I know you are worried about your young children. I do think it hurts them no matter what age, but I could see after reading that article that younger children seem to adapt better than older children and if you stay as connected as you can and you seem to be a loving dad, your kids will be alright, even if it hurts to think about it right now. It sounds as if you have done the best you possibly could to work it out and sometimes, despite our efforts, it is not meant to be. Best to you.
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 Now that she has stated her truth by allowing you to understand her intentions - i would allow her some silence from your end... So that she can see what she chose. Are you chasing her today for answers (which you already have) or are you allowing her room to understand her decision and what that brings (nothing from you)? Funny you should say that. I had intended not to email or call her at all for as long as it takes for her to come to me. And I actually don't even feel a compulsion to get answers from her. I need to be away from it.
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 I have read that younger children "deal" with divorce better than older children. I am not saying that what I read was true, but I have thought about that a lot since I was presented with the opportunity to divorce my XH when my son was 7 (H PA) and then did divorce him after 22 years of marriage (H EA) just last month. One of the hardest, absolutely most difficult things for me was talking to my son, who just turned 21, about it. He is smart, intuitive and wants us both to be happy, but it really, really hurts to think about what he must feel. Thanksgiving and Christmas coming up and we are still living in the same house (son at college). (I should talk to you, Sunny) Anyway......I know you are worried about your young children. I do think it hurts them no matter what age, but I could see after reading that article that younger children seem to adapt better than older children and if you stay as connected as you can and you seem to be a loving dad, your kids will be alright, even if it hurts to think about it right now. It sounds as if you have done the best you possibly could to work it out and sometimes, despite our efforts, it is not meant to be. Best to you. That is really encouraging to hear, and I thank you so much for posting this. Crying a little right now, but I know you're right that my kids will one day be fine.
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 Funny you should say that. I had intended not to email or call her at all for as long as it takes for her to come to me. And I actually don't even feel a compulsion to get answers from her. I need to be away from it. This is good use of energy... ;-) Don't get upset when it takes her a LONG while - remember she operates by avoiding. Don't take it personally - its hers not yours.
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 This is good use of energy... ;-) Don't get upset when it takes her a LONG while - remember she operates by avoiding. Don't take it personally - its hers not yours. Totally agree. There's a peace in being on the other side of her decision. She's not interested in giving me anything anymore, so I don't have to feel slighted. No expectations. Next move is hers. Still hard though. Wish I could visit a friend right now but we're all working!
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 I'm proud of you for moving to a place of acceptance. I still love my exH for the man I thought he COULD be... But that man isn't reality. People show us with their actions exactly what they are made of - accepting THAT reality is the key.
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 I'm proud of you for moving to a place of acceptance. I still love my exH for the man I thought he COULD be... But that man isn't reality. People show us with their actions exactly what they are made of - accepting THAT reality is the key. I think I may end up in the same boat - continuing to love her for the greatness I see inside, but unable to live with what she actually offers.
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 I think I may end up in the same boat - continuing to love her for the greatness I see inside, but unable to live with what she actually offers. It makes me very sad to "see" the sadness of that place that my exH chooses for himself. He has so much (material wise) and he believes it should make him happy - yet he isn't happy on any given day. He is a prisoner of himself. His fear, his resentments and his lies he holds onto to justify his bad behavior. In contrast - I got rid of most"things" and focused on getting happy in my heart. He can't and won't understand me - because his "value system" is about "things and appearances". We were completely mismatched... Yet I was taught to stay. The "staying" nearly killed me. I don't believe everything I was taught anymore - I believe everyone has a right to find what happy is for them - what works for them. Find your "happy" Nick. Never ever settle!
Author NickFeek Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 It makes me very sad to "see" the sadness of that place that my exH chooses for himself. He has so much (material wise) and he believes it should make him happy - yet he isn't happy on any given day. He is a prisoner of himself. His fear, his resentments and his lies he holds onto to justify his bad behavior. In contrast - I got rid of most"things" and focused on getting happy in my heart. He can't and won't understand me - because his "value system" is about "things and appearances". We were completely mismatched... Yet I was taught to stay. The "staying" nearly killed me. I don't believe everything I was taught anymore - I believe everyone has a right to find what happy is for them - what works for them. Find your "happy" Nick. Never ever settle! There's been some bounceback on her end. She called a bit ago and asked what I thought of last night. I told her basically the same things I said last night. One thing this painful ordeal has done is given me the courage sense of self worth to stand my ground on what I said. She can feel confused and/or bad about how harsh last night was, but that doesn't mean I'm going to settle for less. Like you said, never settle.
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 There's been some bounceback on her end. She called a bit ago and asked what I thought of last night. I told her basically the same things I said last night. One thing this painful ordeal has done is given me the courage sense of self worth to stand my ground on what I said. She can feel confused and/or bad about how harsh last night was, but that doesn't mean I'm going to settle for less. Like you said, never settle. sounds like she's testing the waters to see if she's ALLOWED to treat you even MORE unkindly - and see IF you're willing to take her crumbs. let's see - i know you want A,B and C - now i'm gonna really let you have my mean side with X,Y and Z - then i'm gonna check with you the next day to see IF you're gonna take my crappy behavior - she wants you to take that crap like she handing you a gift! WTF??? seriously? is she for real?
2sunny Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 did you tell her you're OVER begging her to be a decent and kind WIFE? did you tell her how completely UNACCEPTABLE her effort to change has been?
Author NickFeek Posted November 10, 2011 Author Posted November 10, 2011 did you tell her you're OVER begging her to be a decent and kind WIFE? did you tell her how completely UNACCEPTABLE her effort to change has been? Love both of your posts. I'm not sure I'd fully attribute the motivations in your first post to her. There could be that subtext there, but she's so out of touch with herself that she may not even know she's doing it. As to this post, YES. I told her I thought I had said & done about all I can do. The rest has to come from her, and if she can't find it in her to open & grow, then there's nothing more I can do. I said that last line of yours to her last night, and said it again on the phone today. She keeps misinterpret it as me saying she's not allowed to feel what she's feeling. I correct her by saying what's unacceptable is not what she's feeling, but what she's doing about it, which is mostly nothing. Her answers have not been encouraging. I do think she's trying to understand where I'm coming from today. She often does that the day after a fight. But so far I don't think she really sees the lack of effort. She DOES see the first thing, though.
Recommended Posts