I'm attracted to the wrong type of guy :/

[Eternal Sunshine]

Saved by pandagirl

[pandagirl]

And maybe this is part of why I admire them so much -- their dedication and passion to completely throw themselves into it. I find it enthralling.

 

But this is what I admired and disliked about my last relationship. He was brilliant, but made no qualms that his work was his number one priority -- why he moved -- and as our relationship dissolved, it was clear that even if we had stayed together, I would have had to take a backseat to his career. Always.

[Star Gazer]

And maybe this is part of why I admire them so much -- their dedication and passion to completely throw themselves into it. I find it enthralling.

 

Piggy-backing on what WLIC said, maybe you wish you had something (not necessarily the guy) to inspire you to dive in the way they do? You want that to rub off on you somehow, help you find your own inspiration?

 

But this is what I admired and disliked about my last relationship. He was brilliant, but made no qualms that his work was his number one priority -- why he moved -- and as our relationship dissolved, it was clear that even if we had stayed together, I would have had to take a backseat to his career. Always.

 

Or maybe, you have some desire to make them love you more than their job? Because that love and passion for you would be the ultimate...?

[pandagirl]

Piggy-backing on what WLIC said, maybe you wish you had something (not necessarily the guy) to inspire you to dive in the way they do? You want that to rub off on you somehow, help you find your own inspiration?

 

Or maybe, you have some desire to make them love you more than their job? Because that love and passion for you would be the ultimate...?

 

Probably more the former than the latter. I do feel inspired to do better work myself when I am around them. More motivated. For both my ex and I, we loved talking about ideas and projects we could together. I'd review his work, and he'd help me too.

 

And honestly, since he was a bit emotionally blocked (and maybe I am too), maybe this is the way I choose to connect to him, because it was the way I knew I could command his attention.

[threebyfate]

pandagirl, I sometimes have difficulty understanding you. It's like a form of double vision.

[threebyfate]

I've decided to expand on the double vision portion. It feels like there's a solid shield, possibly the fear of being vulnerable. And while I understand a self-protection mechanism, it also prevents people from helping you since your words and superficial thoughts lead them in the wrong direction away from what's truly at core within you.

 

Maybe I'm way off base but that's my difficulty and what I perceive to be a form of double vision. Your words don't appear to synchronize with what you're resonating to me.

[Kamille]

Right. Maybe the fact that these men were so willing to commit to us early on made us feel secure, even though there was no real foundation of a relationship? And that eased our insecurities and fears?

 

 

I know that was key for me.

 

And when I say insecurities and fears, I wasn't crippled by them. However, I had spent most of my late-teens and early twenties feeling unlovable (I remember feeling like relationships were a mystery to me). All the guys I dated in my early twenties were, as a result, kind of commitmentphobes. So by my midtwenties, I needed men to demonstrate they thought I was totally lovable. From there, I could function somewhat smoothly. Without that demonstration, I felt insecure and all over the place and would end up acting hot and cold as a defense mechanism.

 

In a perhaps not-so-healthy way, I can at least hand that accomplishment to ex and exex. They helped me realize I was as deserving of love as the next girl. Of course, we also need to add to that all the work I did on myself to get over those initial insecurities.

 

I know this sounds trite and cliche, but by the time I had met bf, I was in a good headspace about relationships: I believed I was capable of healthy ones I did not feel I needed to absolutely be in one; I was grateful for the love I had known; I was pretty confident that I would fall in love again; I had faith in my capacity to make the right decisions for myself (I was no longer looking for red flags as a preventative measure). Basically, I just wasn't torturing myself about it. This peaceful state of mind made the first few months of dating bf run somewhat smoothly where, in the past, it would have been impossible.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I've decided to expand on the double vision portion. It feels like there's a solid shield, possibly the fear of being vulnerable. And while I understand a self-protection mechanism, it also prevents people from helping you since your words and superficial thoughts lead them in the wrong direction away from what's truly at core within you.

 

Maybe I'm way off base but that's my difficulty and what I perceive to be a form of double vision. Your words don't appear to synchronize with what you're resonating to me.

 

And if this is the case, it would make sense that Panda subconsciously, at least, goes for guys who are not emotionally available. It's safe, though doomed.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine

You still lack empathy when giving me advice. (sorry panda)

 

Have you ever considered that her advice is particularly pointed because she relates to you?

 

I am empathetic to a point where I have difficulties in life because of it, and WLIC is right; I do relate to you. I have told you as much. Though I may empathize, this does not mean that I agree, or support, or sympathize. I also do not choose to express empathy, though it's present, in my communication in many cases, for reasons that I think are good ones. In your particular case, OG, SP, or whoever, I also empathize with the other characters in the scenarios you share - not only with you.

 

At this stage of my life, I am able to apply reasoning to my own empathy ... even let it supersede empathy at times, thank goodness for me.

 

 

OK, so let's talk about this. When you say you don't want boring, and maybe more emotional, and we're going by MBTI types here, let's narrow it down. Might you mean someone like:

 

Devendra Banhart? (probably ENFP)

Viggo Mortensen? (probably ISFP)

Clint Eastwood, in chaps? (ISTP)

Hugh Laurie as House? (ENTP)

Jon Hamm as Don Draper? (ENTJ)

Harmony Korine? (probably INFP)

Voldemort? (INTJ)

Nosferatu the Vampyre? (INFJ)

My boss? (INTP)

 

Man, I can probably keep going. I don't know if there's a type that doesn't have an interesting example of a person associated with it.

 

WLIC, it sounds like you are really getting into the typing thing now. Did you figure these out yourself?

 

I was excited to read yesterday that "Mary, Mother of God" shares my personality type. Who knew she even had a personality?

[threebyfate]

And if this is the case, it would make sense that Panda subconsciously, at least, goes for guys who are not emotionally available. It's safe, though doomed.

I'm not interested in trashing panda. She's one of the nicest people on LS.

 

But if she wants great passion and love in a relationship, she's got to be prepared to be wide open and vulnerable to the other person to get that deep connection kick-started. And man, can it be painful if something goes wrong.

 

I think it erroneous to say that this type of relationship is impossible for focused individuals. But it's unlikely that they'd be willing to give up their other passion. Where the error lies is that people aren't two dimensional and can only focus on one thing. There can be a separation of business and personal.

 

Another aspect is that if she's looking for a partner like this to be gently validating, one who's capable of great passion and deep connection, it's not going to happen. All or nothing.

 

Now, whether the men she's been involved with are capable of this, is another thing entirely. Possibly, possibly not. But one thing's for certain, if you can't give it, you're not going to get it.

[Star Gazer]

I'm not interested in trashing panda. She's one of the nicest people on LS.

 

I don't think anyone here is even remotely coming close to trying to trash Panda; it's a little odd that such an insinuation is even being made. I think we all agree that she's one of the nicest people here.

[pandagirl]

 

And when I say insecurities and fears, I wasn't crippled by them. However, I had spent most of my late-teens and early twenties feeling unlovable (I remember feeling like relationships were a mystery to me). All the guys I dated in my early twenties were, as a result, kind of commitmentphobes. So by my midtwenties, I needed men to demonstrate they thought I was totally lovable. From there, I could function somewhat smoothly. Without that demonstration, I felt insecure and all over the place and would end up acting hot and cold as a defense mechanism.

 

I can really relate to this. I know I need to resolve this issue (and I do and have gone to therapy for this reason), but I haven't been able to nip it in the bud yet. It's frustrating. It's sad to admit that deep down inside, I don't think I'm worthy of letting someone really love me. It's too scary.

 

I'm not interested in trashing panda. She's one of the nicest people on LS.

 

But if she wants great passion and love in a relationship, she's got to be prepared to be wide open and vulnerable to the other person to get that deep connection kick-started. And man, can it be painful if something goes wrong.

I think it erroneous to say that this type of relationship is impossible for focused individuals. But it's unlikely that they'd be willing to give up their other passion. Where the error lies is that people aren't two dimensional and can only focus on one thing. There can be a separation of business and personal.

 

Another aspect is that if she's looking for a partner like this to be gently validating, one who's capable of great passion and deep connection, it's not going to happen. All or nothing.

 

Now, whether the men she's been involved with are capable of this, is another thing entirely. Possibly, possibly not. But one thing's for certain, if you can't give it, you're not going to get it.

 

Totally agree. If I can't give it, I'm not going to get it. And the way I've been functioning all my life is that I want to "secure" it, before I give it away. I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I fully admit this is faulty and I intellectually know this. I think it partly caused my last relationship not to work out, he would tell me that I didn't trust him, even though I thought I did at the time. And then when he left, it was like confirmation that everything I feared came true.

 

I don't think anyone here is even remotely coming close to trying to trash Panda; it's a little odd that such an insinuation is even being made. I think we all agree that she's one of the nicest people here.

 

Nah. No one is trashing me.

 

But to bring it back full circle, maybe I am just picking emotionally unavailable men because I am also unavailable. The fact that I am attracted to a specific type of man is probably just a preference I have. Basically, my perception of whether or not I am picking the right kind of man, has everything to do with me and how I interact with them, and less to do with who they are.

[pandagirl]

Also, I wanted to add something to this thread:

 

I don't think I've ever really talked about my background on LS, but I think it could provide some insight to the other posters trying to help me (which has been very appreciated!).

 

I've suffered from depression since I was a teenager. It's been episodic, but consistent. From my teens into my mid-twenties, I was more depressed than not. I prefer not to take medication, but I have in the past. I had horrible self-esteem and body image issues. I avoided mirrors and took diet pills. I sat in my room in the dark a lot. I cried a lot. I've never been confident around men, nor felt attractive around them. Most people would be surprised to know this about me.

 

That being said, I've always had a lot of inner strength and determination. I make friends easily and people like me, but it's hard to get close to me beyond a certain point. It's very natural for me to take care of people, but it's like, I don't want anyone to take care of me.

[Star Gazer]

It's very natural for me to take care of people, but it's like, I don't want anyone to take care of me.

 

I can relate to this a LOT. I feel very uncomfortable asking for or receiving help/care from others, but seek out opportunities where I can do it myself. I often put others needs/wants ahead of my own, and try to bend myself to fit them. I have to work on making myself a priority everyday.

[threebyfate]

Totally agree. If I can't give it, I'm not going to get it. And the way I've been functioning all my life is that I want to "secure" it, before I give it away. I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I fully admit this is faulty and I intellectually know this. I think it partly caused my last relationship not to work out, he would tell me that I didn't trust him, even though I thought I did at the time. And then when he left, it was like confirmation that everything I feared came true.

 

But to bring it back full circle, maybe I am just picking emotionally unavailable men because I am also unavailable. The fact that I am attracted to a specific type of man is probably just a preference I have. Basically, my perception of whether or not I am picking the right kind of man, has everything to do with me and how I interact with them, and less to do with who they are.

The two bolded sentences conflict. Looks like he tried and felt like he couldn't get through.

 

I've noticed this type of wall with some other posters too. But yours isn't confrontational. It's diversionary, like sliding off glass.

 

I don't have the expertise or knowledge of how to handle depression. Just know that I'm rooting for you!

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm not interested in trashing panda. She's one of the nicest people on LS.

 

Heavens. I am not interested in trashing Panda, either. I hope you're not suggesting that I was. My statement:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mme. Chaucer

And if this is the case, it would make sense that Panda subconsciously, at least, goes for guys who are not emotionally available. It's safe, though doomed.

 

was intended to suggest that maybe Panda is somehow "hiding" her true self ... as I think you implied with your "double vision" post - which is making her unavailable on a deep intimate level, and would possibly lead to her selecting the same in men.

 

 

.

But one thing's for certain, if you can't give it, you're not going to get it.

 

That's what I'm saying!

 

Panda, I hope you don't think that I am interested in trashing you. It's not the case at all.

 

As I said in my first post to you on this thread: I believe you can find the qualities you are looking for in a man who is NOT emotionally unavailable, as long as you are ready for that.

 

That being said, I do know for a fact that very creative people need a lot of time to themselves, not only to do their thing, whatever it is, but to generate the ideas and formulate the "attack." Very successful business people need the same thing, for similar but different reasons. So those who choose to be involved with those types of people will need to accept that. It does NOT, however, mean that those people must be "emotionally unavailable."

[Kamille]

Also, I wanted to add something to this thread:

 

I don't think I've ever really talked about my background on LS, but I think it could provide some insight to the other posters trying to help me (which has been very appreciated!).

 

I've suffered from depression since I was a teenager. It's been episodic, but consistent. From my teens into my mid-twenties, I was more depressed than not. I prefer not to take medication, but I have in the past. I had horrible self-esteem and body image issues. I avoided mirrors and took diet pills. I sat in my room in the dark a lot. I cried a lot. I've never been confident around men, nor felt attractive around them. Most people would be surprised to know this about me.

 

That being said, I've always had a lot of inner strength and determination. I make friends easily and people like me, but it's hard to get close to me beyond a certain point. It's very natural for me to take care of people, but it's like, I don't want anyone to take care of me.

 

That's it! I'm officially adopting you as my little sister. It's insane how much we have in common. I struggled with depression as a teenager, had a small battle with anorexia, have never been confident around men until I was in my 30s, and sure as hell didn't feel attractive to them.

 

But, like you, I make friends easily and people generally like me. And, like you, I came to a point where I needed people to "secure" affection before I could give it.

 

 

I think it partly caused my last relationship not to work out, he would tell me that I didn't trust him, even though I thought I did at the time.

 

That's a striking comment, and it could mean so many things. Did he mean that you did not trust him to make the best decisions for the both of you? Or did he mean that you didn't trust he cared about the relationship as much as you? Alternatively, did he mean that you did not trust him to make the best decisions for himself?

 

Depending on what you answer, there are different issues at stake. 1 and 2 are linked, and are kind of the flip side of each other. In 1, when he would be making decisions about the relationships, you would question if you were taken into account. In 2, when you would be making the decisions about the relationship, he would question whether you were taken him into account.

[marlena]

You girls are "all the money!" I want to adopt both of you!!

[Kamille]

You girls are "all the money!" I want to adopt both of you!!

 

Done! Now we all get to go to Greece, drink wine and dance under stars as LS sisters.

[pandagirl]

That's it! I'm officially adopting you as my little sister. It's insane how much we have in common. I struggled with depression as a teenager, had a small battle with anorexia, have never been confident around men until I was in my 30s, and sure as hell didn't feel attractive to them.

 

But, like you, I make friends easily and people generally like me. And, like you, I came to a point where I needed people to "secure" affection before I could give it.

 

Seriously! We have such similar dispositions! It's crazy! But I think we're the same age, so you can adopt me as your twin.

 

That's a striking comment, and it could mean so many things. Did he mean that you did not trust him to make the best decisions for the both of you? Or did he mean that you didn't trust he cared about the relationship as much as you? Alternatively, did he mean that you did not trust him to make the best decisions for himself?

 

Depending on what you answer, there are different issues at stake. 1 and 2 are linked, and are kind of the flip side of each other. In 1, when he would be making decisions about the relationships, you would question if you were taken into account. In 2, when you would be making the decisions about the relationship, he would question whether you were taken him into account.

 

He meant, or how I view it, is that I didn't trust that he cared about the relationship as much as I did. It makes me sad to say, but he was right. I was always fearful that he didn't care, and even now, when I think about our relationship, I have a lot of doubt that he loved me.

 

I'm so scared that I'm going to get hurt, that it inhibits me from enjoying the relationship.

Edited March 29, 2011 by pandagirl

[Kamille]

 

 

He meant, or how I view it, is that I didn't trust that he cared about the relationship as much as I did. It makes me sad to say, but he was right. I was always fearful that he didn't care, and even now, when I think about our relationship, I have a lot of doubt that he loved me.

 

I'm so scared that I'm going to get hurt, that it inhibits me from enjoying the relationship.

 

I wish I had the magical piece of advice that would make your fears go away. But you understand and explain the issue better than I could. And maybe clarity on your thought processes is all you need.

 

The issue of trust, however, is one that comes along once you are dating and ready to commit. I suggest the following plan:

1) Make sure you're in a headspace where you enjoy meeting men and dating. In my case, it involved friends teaching me how to flirt. Believe me, once you know how, you'll wonder why you were ever hesitant to flirt in the first place.

2) Once you meet a worthy candidate, work on establishing a good foundation, where the needs and boundaries of each are expressed, heard and respected.

3) Once in an exclusive relationship, give your future beau the room to show you he cares as much about the relationship as you do. This will have the double benefit of ensuring he does care as much as you do and making the relationship more balanced, as you will both be active in making decisions about the relationship. You will have, in other words, to not give in to your fears that you are unloved. The benefit will be that the question will become irrelevant because you will know whether or not your relationship is loving. (And if it's not, you'll treck on out of there).

[threebyfate]

You two are so INFJ!

[pandagirl]

I wish I had the magical piece of advice that would make your fears go away. But you understand and explain the issue better than I could. And maybe clarity on your thought processes is all you need.

 

The issue of trust, however, is one that comes along once you are dating and ready to commit. I suggest the following plan:

1) Make sure you're in a headspace where you enjoy meeting men and dating. In my case, it involved friends teaching me how to flirt. Believe me, once you know how, you'll wonder why you were ever hesitant to flirt in the first place.

2) Once you meet a worthy candidate, work on establishing a good foundation, where the needs and boundaries of each are expressed, heard and respected.

3) Once in an exclusive relationship, give your future beau the room to show you he cares as much about the relationship as you do. This will have the double benefit of ensuring he does care as much as you do and making the relationship more balanced, as you will both be active in making decisions about the relationship. You will have, in other words, to not give in to your fears that you are unloved. The benefit will be that the question will become irrelevant because you will know whether or not your relationship is loving. (And if it's not, you'll treck on out of there).

 

This is good advice.

 

But... I don't know how to flirt! That even ignites fears of being rejected in me! I'm hopeless.

 

You two are so INFJ!

 

haha. I have the head of an INFJ and the heart of an INFP. Logic versus emotion, both sides are very strong for me. My best friend (a psychologist, a good one) tells me that I've always tried to understand my feelings, rather than just feeling them.

[Kamille]

You two are so INFJ!

 

And proud of it!

[Kamille]

This is good advice.

 

But... I don't know how to flirt! That even ignites fears of being rejected in me! I'm hopeless.

 

The best people to help you with this are your real life friends. I picked the ones I thought were particularly good at flirting and I told them I was determined to learn how to flirt and then I let them guide me. My friends had a blast with me, meaning, at first they would laugh at just how clueless I was. They gave me a lot of tips and tricks. And it was a lot of fun, very informative and a lot of good laughs. And it's actually while on a flirting lesson with a friend that I met bf. So really, I could not recommend enlisting your friends enough. Accept the risks and just do it. Chances are, you will meet with a lot more positive responses than rejections, especially once you start feeling more comfortable with flirting.