My Wife is No Longer in Love with Me

[worldgonewrong]

Although I am the oppisite of every man who has posted on here. I am the woman who was no longer in love. I found someone else, moved on, moved out. He also moved on and found someone else. We have two kids. this happened a year and a half ago, and I regret it so much. I should have tried to fix myself, I was unhappy. We both gave up. Now all I want more than anything is my family back. I want my kids to see their parents happy and together again. I talked to him about it and he wants nothing to do with it. I made the decision to leave thinking that I would find myself and all I found was regret. I know that it is hard from either perspective, hers and yours. All I can say is work on yourself. There is only so much you can do to try to make her love you again. Love does fade, but I have hope that it can be revived. Also, when my ex tried to talk me out of leaving, it only made me want to leave more, I felt smothered. She can move out, there is so much help for single parents. It will all work out in the end. I just know from my experience that the one who will be regretful in the long run is her. Stay strong for yourself and especially for your children.

 

Lookinside, thank you for your perspective. I think this is valuable to us on the 'other side'.

Regarding the bolded part above, with hindsight, what do you wish he had done differently? And if he had done that different thing, do you think it would have brought you two back again?

Please do share!

[Yasuandio]

Lookinside, thank you for your perspective. I think this is valuable to us on the 'other side'.

Regarding the bolded part above, with hindsight, what do you wish he had done differently? And if he had done that different thing, do you think it would have brought you two back again?

Please do share!

 

Indeed. Let's just watch history unfold in Debtman's case. I have a feeling you'll be next WGW.

[jstobo]

Lookinside- I'm curious, what caused you to want to leave your marriage in the first place? I too want to know what your H could have done that wouldn't have smothered you?

 

Update: i decided to drop some flowers off at her door, so she would know i happy about her having this change of direction. She texted me a nice thank you. We saw each other today because of a play my daughter had. It was the first time in a week that I hugged her. When the play was over, I walked her to her car and asked if she wanted to talk about anything. She said that she wanted to get together for dinner some time next week. She already asked her sister if she would watch the kids for us. That was it. I gave her a hug goodbye and that's been it today.

 

I'm going back to LC until she sets up the dinner. I felt she was a little stand offish at the play and saying goodbye. I'm not sure if she woke up and realized yesterday was just a bad day or if she doesn't want to get my hopes up. I'm also not sure why this dinner needs to be next week. Why wasn't it tonight or tomorrow? Maybe she is just really gathering her thoughts and making sure she handles the dinner correctly.

 

I have read many threads on here. Not many end positively. I'm well aware of the low probabilities for reconciliation. Her sister told me today that she has never seen my wife more miserable. We do have a chance of being different, but I am staying very guarded. She needs to be the one to initiate this reconciliation. It is the only way I would be able to trust that she really wants to be with me versus her being unable to be without me.

 

The only thing I will accept from this dinner is her wanting to work on our marriage together. I'm not saying moving back in right away. But the dinner will end very quickly if it becomes a "I'm confused and I don't know what I want to do" discussion. To me, that is all garbage and just delaying the inevitable.

 

Thoughts and comments are welcome!

[ShatteredReality]

Update: i decided to drop some flowers off at her door, so she would know i happy about her having this change of direction. She texted me a nice thank you. We saw each other today because of a play my daughter had. It was the first time in a week that I hugged her. When the play was over, I walked her to her car and asked if she wanted to talk about anything. She said that she wanted to get together for dinner some time next week. She already asked her sister if she would watch the kids for us. That was it. I gave her a hug goodbye and that's been it today.

 

I love that you did that and I hope it meant something to her. Little things like that here or there are nice...obviously take it slow for now since she's a little gunshy - but I am sure it made her smile at least!

 

I'm going back to LC until she sets up the dinner. I felt she was a little stand offish at the play and saying goodbye. I'm not sure if she woke up and realized yesterday was just a bad day or if she doesn't want to get my hopes up. I'm also not sure why this dinner needs to be next week. Why wasn't it tonight or tomorrow? Maybe she is just really gathering her thoughts and making sure she handles the dinner correctly.

 

I too wonder why she had to wait a week. Maybe she just wants to make sure the feeling of missing you so much doesn't subside...or maybe that was when her sister was free to babysit...or perhaps she wanted to see how things go this week - if you leave the LC idea behind - in which case she will see much more of you. I say continue with LC though - it's better for you at this point and until she says she wants to work on the marriage that is what you need to concentrate on.

 

I have read many threads on here. Not many end positively. I'm well aware of the low probabilities for reconciliation. Her sister told me today that she has never seen my wife more miserable. We do have a chance of being different, but I am staying very guarded. She needs to be the one to initiate this reconciliation. It is the only way I would be able to trust that she really wants to be with me versus her being unable to be without me.

 

The only thing I will accept from this dinner is her wanting to work on our marriage together. I'm not saying moving back in right away. But the dinner will end very quickly if it becomes a "I'm confused and I don't know what I want to do" discussion. To me, that is all garbage and just delaying the inevitable.

 

 

I hate to be blunt...but it's good that she's miserable. If she wasn't then she would truly not be in love with you anymore. I am sure this confuses her even more...but hopefully she can work her way through that...also get beyond that fear that she's obviously been battling this whole time...and admit that she wants to give your marriage another shot. Truly it's been her fear governing her actions...and like I said before...those first few fights my H and I had when we were reconciling I was terrified I had made a mistake in agreeing to work on things with him....she most likely will have similar feelings when the first speed bump comes up - but that doesn't mean it is doomed...I just hope she says she wants to work on things...post us for sure!

[jstobo]

So I have two more days to wait to hear what it is she will say. We have had to see each other a few times the past couple of days. We have hugged and even kissed a little. Initiated by me, but she didn't resist. It was very nice. She has done some things to be able to see me a little bit. I'll let you all know what happens after Monday.

[change]

So I have two more days to wait to hear what it is she will say. We have had to see each other a few times the past couple of days. We have hugged and even kissed a little. Initiated by me, but she didn't resist. It was very nice. She has done some things to be able to see me a little bit. I'll let you all know what happens after Monday.

This sounds very promising to me. Good luck, jstobo!

[change]

I feel guilty responding to this in this thread -- there's no way I can move this to my own thread, right?

 

It's the only way to survive sometimes. The person you loves hurts you so much...and even if they don't know it and therefore can't stop it...it's real and it can kill you slowly over time. So you view the person you loved as gone completely because it is just too much to see that person as being this same person who hurts you on such a regular basis...again, just kind of how it feels....not saying you were trying to inflict the pain.

 

Like I said...survival kicks in...she did what she had to do...plus...how attractive is someone when they're hurting you?? It will take her time to put those walls she has constructed down...it will take a lot of internal warring on her part first too as she battles the want vs the logical thoughts of whether she should or not.

 

Yes. And I'm guessing that the only control I have in the situation over whether or not she wants to break down those walls is my own behavior. My own ability to do a 180 and really make the changes that I need to make.

 

Continue to find yourself. Jstobo got a lot of really great advice in this thread...since we jacked it you may as well go back and find some of the advice and try to apply it...sounds like you are already making strides, but continue to do so. Do not be discouraged and give up. It won't get you anywhere.

 

I agree. Jstobo has gotten some great advice on this thread that I've been trying to make use of.

 

As for the intense happiness. Yes. I have had that. It's scary. You don't forget it and then when things get hard again you think about it and remember it...it's kind of easy to idealize it and say "if I had just walked away then I would still feel like that now" but that isn't true. What I believe it is is that first jolt where you finally don't have to take care of him anymore. I am not saying this doesn't happen to men...but speaking from what I know about it. You feel like you're taking care of this man...and then he abuses and neglects you and all of your efforts in some way...so then you begin to resent that you're doing all of this for him and eventually even resent him. When you get some time away from them it's this huge weight off of your shoulders...something that you worry about 24/7 without even realizing that you're worrying about it...someone else who you feel like you have to keep it together at all times in order to support emotionally/physically or financially (or all three sometimes)...and now that's gone. You get to be you for a minute. You can breathe. Does any of that make sense?

 

It does. It particularly does in light of something she posted publicly this morning. I don't want to post the exact words here, because I don't want her to somehow stumble on these threads, but it was something like this:

 

Living my life for myself has been the most difficult and rewarding thing I've done. I'm so happy.

 

That seems to tie in exactly with what you're saying you've experienced, yes? I'm making changes so that she doesn't have to 'keep it together' for me anymore -- or even again. But even creating space for her in that way, I wonder why she'd ever want to come back after this experience. Since you've had similar emotions, can you enlighten me?

[jstobo]

Shattered Reality has been a big help. So whether she is responding to you or me, I find use from it. Just be careful, because her reconciliation is not the norm. You need to dig deep to see similarities with her and your Wife. It looks like I have a chance at reconciliation, but my Wife has never done the things most Wives have been reported doing on these threads. Yes, she had an EA, but she always seemed to respond to my positive actions but withdrew after negative ones. Unfortunately, my negative actions were too much for either of us. The last month, all of our interactions have been positive. That's what is turning things around.

[change]

Shattered Reality has been a big help. So whether she is responding to you or me, I find use from it. Just be careful, because her reconciliation is not the norm. You need to dig deep to see similarities with her and your Wife. It looks like I have a chance at reconciliation, but my Wife has never done the things most Wives have been reported doing on these threads. Yes, she had an EA, but she always seemed to respond to my positive actions but withdrew after negative ones. Unfortunately, my negative actions were too much for either of us. The last month, all of our interactions have been positive. That's what is turning things around.

 

I'm glad. Similarly, I've found th advice that's been written to you to be extremely helpful.

 

Every relationship and separation is so different for all of the tiny reasons that make up why two people got together in the first place. It makes it nearly impossible to compare anyone's experience with anyone else's, in my mind. And I'm surprised to find that my situation has a lot more similarity with marriages that involve addition issues than anything else. Who would have thought? I sure wouldn't have.

 

I think the positive interactions have absolutely caused your situation to turn a corner, from what I've seen on your thread. Building positive memories is very powerful.

 

It seems like it's taken you awhile to find your compass, though -- to figure out how to stop having negative interactions. How long would you say that process has gone on for you?

 

From where I stand, I'm realizing that my wife needs distance to heal herself. I also need to be at a place where I can consistently be positive and healthy; I've had a number of "slip ups" over the last month, because I'm not healed either yet.

 

The idea that reconciliation is not the norm also interests me. Doesn't it seem that an online forum like LS would be somewhat self-selecting for posts that don't involve reconciliation? And isn't reconciliation directly proportional with the problems that led to the split actually being addressed and resolved (a process that it seems is sometimes impossible and that many are not willing to do)?

[jstobo]

It has taken me a while. Truthfully, I'm not there emotionally. I'm just stronger at keeping my mouth shut. This all started in mid November. She moved out the second week of March. I had less opportunities to have negative interactions. As each day went by, it was getting easier to get through the day. I started going out with friends and went on a few dates. None of the dates turned into anything, but it did give me the confidence to know I could get people to go out with me and I did notice that I liked some women, but I'm much more picky right now, if you know what I mean. That too helped me lessen the negative interactions. To answer your question, it took me roughly 4 months and her moving out to get to the positive interactions.

 

But I need to stress something here about my Wife. She NEVER rejected my positive interactions. If I texted her, she responded. If I called her, she answered. If I hugged her, she hugged back. I don't read that type of thing on here very often. She only pulled away when I got angry.

 

So I hate to say it, but us not living with each over the past 6 weeks is what has gotten us on a new path.

 

You could be right about the statistics on LS. If things are going positively, I guess people don't continue posting because they are no longer looking for advice. I'm trying to be different and keep my story going, good or bad. I was more encouraged by a thread that got started by who is most likely a OW. Her thread asked, "why does the BS stay in the marriage.". I was surprised to see how many people posted on that thread about why they stayed and most reported the marriage was better. So maybe there are more reconciliations out there than we know about.

[LoveDoesntHurt]

Two wrongs don't make a right it only makes another wrong...I know that it's a hurtful feeling that your wife says she doesn't love you anymore, but that still doesn't change the fact that she is still your wife..chatting with this other woman will only make you feel good temporarily..you still love your wife so why bring another woman into the picture that you could possibly end up hurting?...Finances can ruin a marriage if you let it...My advice keep being true...because you don't want to reap something that you could have avoided sowing..

About two years ago, my Wife and I started having financial problems. I was stressed a lot and probably checked out emotionally. We had a very expensive lifestyle and I resented my Wife a lot for not appreciating me more while going through this difficult time. We struggled, but we never had real marital problems. About three months ago I discovered she was e-mailing and texting a lot to an old college male friend she saw at a wedding. I was never so heartbroken. I confronted her about it and she explained how she had been feeling at that she was no longer in love with me. I asked if she slept with him and she said no. None of the e-mails or texts I read said anything about getting together in that way. He is separated from his Wife. I'm not stupid though, I am assuming they did.

 

Over the next month we were on a roller coaster. A lot of passion, a lot of anger and sadness. We were more intimate than ever. However, the last two months have been very challenging. I've checked her e-mail, texts and phone records and there is no contact with the OM in any way. She still says she is not in love with me, yet she still wants to sleep with me. Other than that, she doesn't say I love you, she rarely shows affection and we don't do a lot of things together outside of the home. We've been married for 10 years and have two children. Neither of us are able to move out because we cannot afford two payments right now until we downsize.

 

I feel like I need to move on, but can't right now because of the housing situation, my kids and the fact that she doesn't want to divorce right now. I feel like I'm in the limbo phase. I lost 25 pounds over the last three months and I'm back to my married weight, I do more around the house, and I help out with the kids a lot. I've been super nice to her, but all this hasn't won her back. I'm pretty sad and depressed.

 

I have a couple of questions. 1) Should I be trying at all since she started an EA with another man and tells me she is no longer in love with me?

2) There is another woman who I have recently started chatting with because of what is happening. I knew her 20 years ago. Chatting with her makes me feel better about myself and lets me know I will be OK dating. We've agreed to meet for a drink and I'm a little indifferent about it. Part of me thinks its OK cause its a friend and "hey, my wife says she isn't in love with me." The other part says, "don't stoop to her level and even the playing field." What do you all think?

[jstobo]

Two wrongs don't make a right it only makes another wrong...I know that it's a hurtful feeling that your wife says she doesn't love you anymore, but that still doesn't change the fact that she is still your wife..chatting with this other woman will only make you feel good temporarily..you still love your wife so why bring another woman into the picture that you could possibly end up hurting?...Finances can ruin a marriage if you let it...My advice keep being true...because you don't want to reap something that you could have avoided sowing..

 

Wow LoveDoesntHurt, you went back a ways on this one. Much has happened since I posted that post. As an FYI, I didn't cancel that meeting. But after my Wife moved out, which was a month or so after the post you quoted, I did end up going with that woman a few times. And just when I thought i was starting to have feelings for her; BOOM; my Wife asks me to dinner and wants to start dating me again. Hmmmm.... The date is Monday. I started another thread about it.

[ShatteredReality]

Yes. And I'm guessing that the only control I have in the situation over whether or not she wants to break down those walls is my own behavior. My own ability to do a 180 and really make the changes that I need to make.

 

Honestly that is the only control that you do have. You have also reached a point in the relationship where she has put in what she feels to be the majority of the emotional effort. I can honestly speak from personal experience here...and I think your wife feels something like this from the other things that you said - but it's more than just a little taxing being the emotional strong hold in a relationship. At this point you can make all the changes you want to yourself...but ultimately she has to decide to return to you. That is why I cannot stress enough that these changes need to be for the betterment of yourself. If things don't have a "happy ending" for the two of you together then at this point what you have to do is try for a happy ending for each of you as individuals. You can look at the mistakes you have made and move forward from them...try not to re-create them...either with her when you reconcile or with the next person you make a life with.

 

 

It does. It particularly does in light of something she posted publicly this morning. I don't want to post the exact words here, because I don't want her to somehow stumble on these threads, but it was something like this:

 

Living my life for myself has been the most difficult and rewarding thing I've done. I'm so happy.

 

That seems to tie in exactly with what you're saying you've experienced, yes? I'm making changes so that she doesn't have to 'keep it together' for me anymore -- or even again. But even creating space for her in that way, I wonder why she'd ever want to come back after this experience. Since you've had similar emotions, can you enlighten me?

 

Yeah that quote...I know what she means. I have had times where I have thought it would be so much easier in some ways if I could just run away...never look back...start over...kind of like a bankruptcy on my life not just my finances. But it doesn't work that way...it's a lot harder to walk away from the people that you love no matter what your circumstances are than one would think.

 

So...these changes you're making...continue to make them and I will never stop telling you that. I will probably repeat it enough times that you read over it and don't even read it anymore because you know I am saying it. The ONLY way to prove to her that it's real is to keep it up no matter what she does. You no longer do these things for her but instead make them a permanent way of being and do them for you. She won't believe it otherwise and won't return unless she believes it. At one time...you were her whole world. You were the man that she loved more than she had words to describe...and somewhere along the road - probably she can't even pinpoint it because it's usually a progression over time - that went away. You became someone that she loved but that she had to take care of and sacrifice the very things she liked about herself in order to do so.

 

So to address why she would come back. I guess for me it might be different. I am still married to my first husband. If you are not her first husband then there may only be parts of this that applies. For me...I stayed/returned for many reasons. In the beginning I agreed to work on things mostly out of guilt and obligation...I know those aren't the right reasons...but I didn't believe we had a true chance and figured this was going to be a huge waste of both of our time...however he's the father to my children so I felt I needed to at least be able to say that I did try. After some time I began to realize that these changes he was making were becoming more evident. I could see that he was trying. I told him not to do these things for me...that they would just go away if he did...he said he was doing them because I had made him realize that these problems were there. Apparently he hadn't realized they even existed before...Well either way - if he downplayed it back then or if he honestly didn't realize what was going on - he figured it out and he's worked on it. As he made those positive changes I was able to see some parts of the guy I fell in love with way back when. I have always said that once you fall in love - truly in love - with a person it's entirely possible to do it again. And in a marriage - at least for many women - you will fall in and out of love with your SO several times throughout the years. The thing that keeps you around to fall IN love with him again is knowing that it will happen. I think most women walk away when they feel that it is too late and it won't happen again. So, naturally, when I began to fall for him again - I was terrified. I thought - OH NO I am going to get myself TRAPPED all over again!! But I couldn't help it...he was trying so hard. He wanted to be a better person. He wanted me to see that better person. And more than anything - he wanted me to love that better person. We agreed to put the past behind us and move forward. Something I realized from watching siblings and relatives and friends going on their second marriages and such - it's never the same as the first one. That love...it's only given out once. Every time after that is different and more guarded. So...I figured I could try to save this relationship that still held in its memories all that innocent unguarded love, or I could begin a new one with someone else...learn all of his new issues and how to cope with them...put in all that work...and know that no matter what I still couldn't give him the VERY best of me...because it was already given to someone else and you can't give it out twice...does that make sense? I am rambling so I am moving on from this point now...

 

Shattered Reality has been a big help. So whether she is responding to you or me, I find use from it. Just be careful, because her reconciliation is not the norm. You need to dig deep to see similarities with her and your Wife. It looks like I have a chance at reconciliation, but my Wife has never done the things most Wives have been reported doing on these threads. Yes, she had an EA, but she always seemed to respond to my positive actions but withdrew after negative ones. Unfortunately, my negative actions were too much for either of us. The last month, all of our interactions have been positive. That's what is turning things around.

 

I am glad I was able to help some:o

And I know my reconciliation is one of the best case scenarios in these situations. But I think it's important to look at the best and the worst of what can happen...and to prepare for the worst but hope for the best...while keeping an optimistic eye toward the future. Also...here's to hoping that no matter the outcome something good can come from it...right? (Let's just call it a survival technique I have...)

 

It has taken me a while. Truthfully, I'm not there emotionally. I'm just stronger at keeping my mouth shut.

 

But I need to stress something here about my Wife. She NEVER rejected my positive interactions. If I texted her, she responded. If I called her, she answered. If I hugged her, she hugged back. I don't read that type of thing on here very often. She only pulled away when I got angry.

 

So I hate to say it, but us not living with each over the past 6 weeks is what has gotten us on a new path.

 

You could be right about the statistics on LS. If things are going positively, I guess people don't continue posting because they are no longer looking for advice. I'm trying to be different and keep my story going, good or bad. I was more encouraged by a thread that got started by who is most likely a OW. Her thread asked, "why does the BS stay in the marriage.". I was surprised to see how many people posted on that thread about why they stayed and most reported the marriage was better. So maybe there are more reconciliations out there than we know about.

 

Sometimes keeping your mouth shut is the best thing you can do...it gives you a chance to evaluate what you can let go of or what truly needs to be addressed...that's been invaluable in my reconciliation from both of us...though mostly from him And I know you posted this for change...but you know me by now...

 

I also rarely declined physical affection from my H when we were reconciling. I didn't always startr it...but I almost never turned him away...there is something to be said about physical contact - be it a hug or kiss, or mere touch...it helps strenthen the emotional bond...I read a touching story that I can fwd to you if you're interested that kind of touches on that. I have no clue if it's true, but it's certainly possible that it is.

 

I saw your other post Jstobo and have glanced at your other thread...though I am inclined to give others a chance to have their say for you for once. I think the first poster in your other thread...or was it the second...I think the first though - was correct. What she is hesitant to agree to right now she will be more inclined to agree to soon...she still has to work through the emotional mess she's made for herself in all of this confusion.

[jstobo]

Very nice date. We got wine, sushi and some tumblers and went down to the beach. I really treated it like it was a first date. She was very guarded. I didn't sense any "chemistry" between us. Kind of like a date you go on and youncan tell there just isn't any attraction. But we had dinner none the less and watched the sun go down together. It ws nice. We walked back to my car and she got in. I felt the need to take it to a physical level, so I pulled her out of the car and gave her a hug and a a few kisses. She kissed back, but they didn't feel real passionate. So we talked some more. I told her I wanted her to show me more affection. She had expressed to me earlier in the day the things that bothered her and what I needed to work on. I felt it was appropriate for to tell her some things I needed from her. She responded with, if things progress between us, she will work on those things. That didn't give me a warm feeling inside.

 

I drove her home and we both agreed it was a nice evening. I didn't ask when we would get together again or anything. I'm going back to LC. My current thoughts are, that no matter how much I love this woman, she is not someone who wants to make me happy. She's mostly interested in what makes her happy. I could feel differently 5 minutes from now. We'll see.

[Steadfast]

...I told her I wanted her to show me more affection...snip...She responded if things progress between us, she will work on those things...snip...no matter how much I love this woman, she is not someone who wants to make me happy. She's mostly interested in what makes her happy

 

You catch the eye of a nice looking lady in a bar and start to chat. Things are progressing nicely until you say "I like you, but I'd feel a lot better about this meeting if you'd show me more affection."

 

Guess what she does.

 

This never works. Couples don't talk through affection, they don't talk about being more attracted. Those things are at best passion-driven or at least impulsive. How can you talk more romance into a relationship without sounding needy?

 

Respect, trust and consideration are topics of conversation, but the physical reaction to matters of the heart can't be. It's either there, or it isn't. And the harder you try...

 

Good luck jstobo. I really hope it works out-

[ShatteredReality]

Very nice date. We got wine, sushi and some tumblers and went down to the beach. I really treated it like it was a first date. She was very guarded. I didn't sense any "chemistry" between us. Kind of like a date you go on and youncan tell there just isn't any attraction. But we had dinner none the less and watched the sun go down together. It ws nice. We walked back to my car and she got in. I felt the need to take it to a physical level, so I pulled her out of the car and gave her a hug and a a few kisses. She kissed back, but they didn't feel real passionate. So we talked some more. I told her I wanted her to show me more affection. She had expressed to me earlier in the day the things that bothered her and what I needed to work on. I felt it was appropriate for to tell her some things I needed from her. She responded with, if things progress between us, she will work on those things. That didn't give me a warm feeling inside.

 

I am not at all surprized that she was guarded. Every woman is different and the thing that worked for me may not work for her - so obviously my take is just one of many different ways to see a situation. She will be guarded for awhile yet. It doesn't go away automatically and it's very frightening to put that wall back down once it is up...it can take far longer, actually, than it takes to begin the reconciliation process. Her kisses weren't passionate because she's scared. You said you talked a lot...Did she say that she has a positive outlook for the two of you or does she feel divorce is still going to be the end result? I would advise that you hug her when you see her and perhaps a kiss on the cheek...but no longer on the mouth unless she gives you either verbal or physical invitation to do so...she's quite skittish right now it seems and when you become more physically demonstrative than she's ready for I don't think she knows what to do with that. Also...has OM come back into her life at all or anything? Is she seeing anybody else? This would only worsen her confusion...but it's not uncommon...just hoping she's not allowing something like that to come in and cloud her judgement.

 

And as for you telling her you need more affection. Careful on that. If you said "I need for you to show me how you're feeling more...if you're feeling affectionate to me please show me" that's a little different...But you've been doing really well thus far - so don't push her too far too fast. Remember...these improvements you've made to yourself are permanent...if she doesn't come around in time to enjoy them you will find someone else who will...however one of those changes needs to include patience, because more than anything else she's just waiting for the changes to disappear and the "other guy" to come around again. Believe me...I waited about two years before I finally believed that guy was not going to be making regular appearances...It's only the last 4 months or so I can honestly say that I no longer "fear" the reappearance of that guy...but believe me...there's still a huge part of me that's saying "If he comes back...that's the deal breaker..." And look how long it's been for us! I don't let that fear control me anymore though and am completely open with him now...but it took awhile to get there.

 

I drove her home and we both agreed it was a nice evening. I didn't ask when we would get together again or anything. I'm going back to LC. My current thoughts are, that no matter how much I love this woman, she is not someone who wants to make me happy. She's mostly interested in what makes her happy. I could feel differently 5 minutes from now. We'll see.

 

You are absolutely right, she is not going to worry too much about what makes you happy right now. She may...give her time...but right now she's still scared and she's self preserving. That is something that comes with falling back in love with you - so if she does that will come naturally, if she doesn't then as I said before...eventually you'll move forward from this pain and find someone who will appreciate all of the hard work you've done.

 

 

You catch the eye of a nice looking lady in a bar and start to chat. Things are progressing nicely until you say "I like you, but I'd feel a lot better about this meeting if you'd show me more affection."

 

Guess what she does.

 

This never works. Couples don't talk through affection, they don't talk about being more attracted. Those things are at best passion-driven or at least impulsive. How can you talk more romance into a relationship without sounding needy?

 

Respect, trust and consideration are topics of conversation, but the physical reaction to matters of the heart can't be. It's either there, or it isn't. And the harder you try...

 

Good luck jstobo. I really hope it works out-

 

In some ways I agree and in others I disagree. My H tells me when he needs physical affection from me. If I am on one side of the couch and he is on the other he will tell me that he feels neglected or lonely or whatever word he chooses shift my attention to the fact that I am not touching him / leaning on him...whatever he needs at the moment. Sometimes I don't want to lean on him...I am doing something else or I know I will just have to get up in a minute....but I do it anyway because it's something he needs from me. Now...obviously I live with him and such...but I am just saying, if the physical reaction isn't automatically what the other person needs, at some point they need to be able to voice their needs and have the person at least consider meeting them.

 

But I do agree - attraction can't really be forced and before the physical come the other things you mentioned - respect, trust, and consideration.

[jstobo]

She is no longer talking about divorce. Right now her focus seems to be about taking baby steps to see if we can reconcile. I guess she isn't in reconciliation mode just yet. She's in let's see if we've grown over the last couple of months mode. With that, she isn't really talking about the future together either. I think you're 100% right about the affection part. I didn't get the feeling she didn't want to, I got more of a feeling she is just guarded. My statement about wanting more affection was more about what I would need to see improve if she decided to reconcile. That was in contrast with her saying she would need me to be more emotionally stable for her. I guess the best way to describe me is too an alcoholic. She didn't know if I was going to come home in a bad mood or good mood. Compare that to an alcoholic where a spouse doesn't know if the H is going to come home drunk and be a bad night or sober and be a good night. She is going to make me prove I am working on that and getting better.

 

As I reflect back on the date, I saw very positive things from her. If you compare with someone who you would have a first date with, it was right in line with a good first date. I guess its just hard to have a first date with someone I have so much history with.

 

As far as the other guy. I don't know the real answers to that. I get the impression whatever they had really didn't turn into anything. I would think it's more likely she has been on a few dates with other guys, just like I have with other women. I haven't met a woman who has changed my feelings so far and my guess she hasn't met a man who has done that either. If she has another relationship that is going well or progressing, she isn't going to be asking me to start over.

[ShatteredReality]

She is no longer talking about divorce. Right now her focus seems to be about taking baby steps to see if we can reconcile. I guess she isn't in reconciliation mode just yet. She's in let's see if we've grown over the last couple of months mode. With that, she isn't really talking about the future together either. I think you're 100% right about the affection part. I didn't get the feeling she didn't want to, I got more of a feeling she is just guarded. My statement about wanting more affection was more about what I would need to see improve if she decided to reconcile. That was in contrast with her saying she would need me to be more emotionally stable for her. I guess the best way to describe me is too an alcoholic. She didn't know if I was going to come home in a bad mood or good mood. Compare that to an alcoholic where a spouse doesn't know if the H is going to come home drunk and be a bad night or sober and be a good night. She is going to make me prove I am working on that and getting better.

 

As I reflect back on the date, I saw very positive things from her. If you compare with someone who you would have a first date with, it was right in line with a good first date. I guess its just hard to have a first date with someone I have so much history with.

 

As far as the other guy. I don't know the real answers to that. I get the impression whatever they had really didn't turn into anything. I would think it's more likely she has been on a few dates with other guys, just like I have with other women. I haven't met a woman who has changed my feelings so far and my guess she hasn't met a man who has done that either. If she has another relationship that is going well or progressing, she isn't going to be asking me to start over.

 

I doubt she's been seeing OM either, or she'd have tossed the idea of getting back together by now I am sure...but I was just checking - I have been surprized before. It's mostly important to know what she's battling...her feelings for you and her trust issues with you or feelings for you vs feelings for someone else. It's much easier to battle the first....rather than the latter.

 

My father was an alcoholic. I understand that statement better than I would like to. My H was also very similar with his moods - though not an alcoholic. However, it wasn't what mood he'd come home in it was more what mood would he wake up in or how quickly could he change into that bad mood that caused such problems for us. Sometimes it was the little things that set him off...others he held it together until something bigger happened. There were very few markers for me to go by in order to gauge how careful I needed to be...eventually I realized that not everyone lived this way. That while I had lived that way as a young child, after my mom left things were not that way anymore and why the heck would I choose to go back to that?? It's just not good for your health! So...I would say if you're in a bad mood or having a bad day - tell her straight out...just put it out there. Then the fear of "is he" is gone. Now it's just, well now how will we deal with this. She knows you're in a bad mood and now there may be some things she avoids saying/doing...but it's not the same as avoiding them "just in case". And you know...it's perfectly acceptable for you to tell her you're in a bad mood but that you're trying to be in a better mood and just to let you know if you say or do anything upsetting to her. As I said before...right now she's guarded...but the taking care of you part...it's automatic...she did it before and will do it again in time.

 

I know I was the one saying start over and do the same things you originally did to win her heart in the first place - and I still say that...but there is something to be said about not having two Firsts in life. Don't treat it like a first date...treat it like a new date. Don't treat the next one as a second date, treat it as a new one....does the difference make sense? Because there is way too much history there for there to be any more duplicate firsts. There will not be another first kiss for you two or first time making love...there will be rekindled passion and things like that...it will be the old renewed...but not first. Seeing it that way helps to put things back into perspective. A date with your wife will not be like a date with someone you barely know. This far into the relationship the spark/chemistry/passion are all going to be largely dictated by the mood of each of you and of the date in general. A first date is primarily physical and then conversation increases this...if one or both of you are guarded this will not be the case now. There wasn't much of a "spark" on the first few dates I went on with my H during our reconciliation...though we typically ended the evening in bed and there was definitely still spark there...but it took some time before he had me blushing in a public restaurant or staring at him from across the table and thinking about his different features and how I adored them...or before we reached across the table and held hands until the food came...we never stopped giving eachother bites, though, and that helped keep some intimacy in the date...but then, I never would have done that with a first date - not the way that I do with my H. So again - it's not a first or second or even third date...it's new dates where your wife gets to see you for who you are - not who you were.

Edited May 3, 2011 by ShatteredReality
sp

[jstobo]

I woke up this morning feeling the same as I did last night. My happiness is in my control. I'm not going to lie, I wanted her to reach out to me in some way and she didn't. A month ago, I would have broke down and contacted her, but this time I have more strength. It proves to me that all of you are right and I'm not going to be an option.

 

ShatteredReality: I still believe your scenario is a possible outcome for us, but my W is going to have to prove some things to me, which up until this point, she hasn't. Right now, she is showing me very little, although it is an improvement from nothing a month ago. I'm going to keep living my life and when she does something, I'll evaluate how I feel and make a decision at that time. I understand that I risk her moving further away from me, but that would just mean I made the right decision. If she really really wants to be with with me, she'll break down walls to get to me.

 

Keep your comments coming and I will keep updating!

[jstobo]

I'm currently living in a female friends casita until I find something permanent. She always makes me coffee in the morning and has been very helpful. (nothing romantic here). Anyway, I used to have my dry cleaning delivered to the house where my W and I lived. I would come home and it would be hanging on the coat rack. My W would bring it inside the door and hang it on the rack. One day, about three months after the s**t hit the fan, I came home to find it in my closet. I thought, wow, that was nice of her. Maybe we are making some progress. I went downstairs to tell her how much I appreciated her for doing that. She looked at me and smiled and said, my Mom must have done that. Yesterday, my female friend left early to go to the store and said coffee had been made. After she left, I texted her to get me some of the hazelnut creamer I like. This morning, I went to get the creamer, and she pulled the protective seal off it yesterday before putting in the fridge. She doesn't use creamer for her coffee, so I knew she had done that just for me. I texted her the story I just wrote and thanked her for being a thoughtful woman. She texted back, "you are a great guy for noticing, don't settle for the coat rack!"

 

So profound. I'm looking for the creamer!

[worldgonewrong]

jstobo - nice story, bro. I'm glad you shared it. It put a spring in my step, somehow.

[ShatteredReality]

I think you both need to be working on being the creamer for eachother!! I certainly hope you have a happy ending here...actually let me rephrase that - happy ending with your wife. Either way, I have confidence you will have a happy ending...you've come a long way Jstobo.

[jstobo]

I think you both need to be working on being the creamer for eachother!! I certainly hope you have a happy ending here...actually let me rephrase that - happy ending with your wife. Either way, I have confidence you will have a happy ending...you've come a long way Jstobo.

 

Yes, true, but both need to do that. I have tried for six months being the creamer. But she was very different today. I have not said anything about our date since Monday and haven't asked to go out again. I've been strictly about the kids. I never reached out to her today. She finally texted me a hi, how are you text. I didn't respond to that , so an hour later, she called and left a voicemail saying she needed to talk to me about our son. I called, we spoke about our son and that was it. She had a sweet tone to her I haven't heard in a long time. I went over to her house to get my son. I acted nice, but didn't hug her. She kind of followed me around a little. When I got my son in the car, she came up to me with her arms out looking for a hug. I gave her a hug and she said, "that's what I was looking for.". Than she kissed me.

 

She took some good steps today. We'll see if she can keep this up. Tomorrow is our 11 year anniversary, so tomorrow should be interesting.

 

Trust me, I am very skeptical about this.

[jstobo]

Today is our 11 year anniversary. I git her a little gift in case things were progressing for us. Since her actions were so positive yesterday, I thought the right thing to do was offer to bring her coffee in the morning and the gift. She accepted the offer. I got to her house and I could immediately tell, she was back to her guarded self. I gave her the card and gift, which said nothing about our anniversary. She thanked me and we sat down to drink our coffee. We spent 30 minutes shooting the breeze. No talk about us or another date. After 30 minutes of that, I said I better get to work. Hugged her goodbye and that was it. I can at least feel good that I didn't let our anniversary go by without doing anything. I didnt want to regret that in the future. At the same time, I feel lousy and empty. Either she really doesn't want to try or she is making me prove, I have changed from the angry person she was married to. Time will tell.

[ShatteredReality]

Ok so the pattern I am seeing is - when she sees you doing well and progressing she gets hopeful and likes what she sees. When you don't pay the attention to her that you normally do she realizes she misses it and wants it...can't help herself from somehow asking you for it. BUT - here's where things go south...you give in - that's all fine and well - but then you make another step in the "right" direction and she allows her fears to take over and crawls back into her little shell.

 

On some levels I completely understand this...I really really do. It's very difficult to explain - and maybe understanding it doesn't make a difference (that's fine) but here is my "take". She sees you doing really well and wants to be with that guy...as soon as she begins to let her guard down, though, she worries that things will progress straight back to where they were and she may not be strong enough to leave again if she's that miserable. She loves seeing you happy and self confident...she loves seeing you not be that angry guy anymore...but is it smoke in mirrors?? How can she know?? How can she trust herself right now?? For all she knows she's seeing you through rose colored glasses again and ignoring important signs that point to things getting bad again in the not too far off future...

 

I am not saying you deserve to be walked on - let's be clear on that ok? I am also not saying that she should never work to get you the way you've worked to get her back - please don't feel that I ever say that. I am trying to give you a glance at the angle she may be coming from. How she feels may or may not change in time for you to still want her back. She could very well ruin everything with her fears and running all the time. And you don't deserve to be treated like dirt.

 

Having said all of that. If you love her...if you want her back...then I would say don't give up just yet. I know it's painful...I would say, though, how long did she hold on before she gave up? How long did she try and try while you ignored her or blew up at her...chipping away at her a little at a time until she felt she had nothing left? I am not saying tit for tat or that if she was miserable for two years you should be for two years also...but I guess what I am saying is to put things into perspective. ugh does any of this make sense?? I feel like I am talking in circles around myself!!

 

I am forever the optimist...I think you will land on your feet no matter what you do Jstobo - You have made great improvements and continue to do so. Work on loving yourself and BEING HAPPY...while I believe a spouse should in many ways become a persons whole life and be on that pedestal (and I believe each one should put the other there) I also firmly believe they should be an ADDITION to ones life - that even without them you'd still be able to be happy. You know...the whole happiness comes from the inside out stuff.

 

I do not think your gesture has gone overlooked...just downplayed in front of your eyes. Remember the iceburg - you only see the tip...there's so much under the water that you just don't even know about....