My Wife is No Longer in Love with Me

[ShatteredReality]

We agreed that every Wednesday and Sunday we would have dinner together for a smooth transition for the kids. Last night was at my house. We had a good dinner together, but the conversation was kind of boring. I'm starting to think of the reasons I don't enjoy being with her more than the reasons I enjoyed being with her. But she looked damn good last night. So after dinner I asked her upstairs. Her first response was that would be pretty dysfunctional. But I know my Wife really well. I know when she wants to. I told her it would be fun for us since we aren't sleeping with anyone else yet. Needless to say, we had a good time. Hugged her goodbye and away she went. No emotions, no depression or wishing to get her back. If I get to be single AND have that. Not so bad.

 

 

Told ya!

LOL I honestly hope for the best for you and please keep us updated

[jstobo]

It's been three weeks since my last post. I thought I would give an update. I moved out of our marital home about two weeks ago after she moved out about a month ago. We now have totally separate lives. We've agreed on the kids schedule and financial arrangement. Everything has been very amicable. I've come to realize that amicable is making it much harder to move on. We haven't discussed the possibility of working things out in three weeks. The marriage is over.

 

But everytime we see each other, we give each other a big hug hello and big hug goodbye. Everytime we talk, we have great conversations. We text throughout the day. I have come to realize that it is having a very negative impact on my healing. She has not said anything that gives me reason to believe she wants to try again, but she is being super nice.

 

Today, I told her that I need to take some time to heal. And that everytime we see each other, talk on the phone or text, I take three steps backwards. I told her that I want to be the best ex-husband possible, but I can't do that until I have fallen out of love with her. No crying, no begging, no pleading, nothing like that. I've accepted the outcome, but it doesn't mean I need to have so much interaction with her. I told her she would hear very little from me until I have healed. I will e-mail or text her things regarding the kids or finances and I would keep drop offs very brief.

 

She said she didn't know how to respond but not because she doesn't understand. Sometimes I wish she would just be a b**** to me like most ex's, but she never is. Anyway, thanks for giving me a forum to get my thoughts out.

[ShatteredReality]

Well I am glad things are amicable. I know it may sound like it would be easier to move on if things were a bit more difficult, but please count your blessings on this one. There is so much anxiety and stress involved when ex's cannot be nice to eachother...I believe a part of her still loves you. She just isn't IN love with you...and while some people don't get the difference or whatever, it's kind of a big deal for some women. It isn't like she cannot fall back in love with you, but right now she's confused and scared and everything in between...and the time apart has given her time to realize that she can have her own sense of being that isn't associated with the two of you together. Most of us women tend to settle into our family lives and somehow, without realizing it, lose ourselves in that. We are now "guy"s wife or "kid"s mom and less and less ourselves. Even when we go to work we bring that with us and become mom and wife who goes to work and while we're there we think of what we need to do for Husband or Kids at home. It becomes all too convoluted and confusing...and if we are not IN LOVE with the man we go home to we begin to resent this - even if we did it ourselves.

 

Anyhow...I am rambling. You have worked so hard at all of this and I have to say that's totally awesome. You should be seeing some benefits of how you feel about yourself...because either way self improvement is beneficial, even if you don't get the hoped for outcome. I don't know you from the beggar on the corner - but I am proud of you Jstobo...You're doing great. You do need to heal and move forward and that's really great that you see that. Keep us posted, please, on your progress...hopefully just getting your feelings out there has helped you a ton. And you have most likely learned a lot from this experience that will benefit you with the next woman...or further down the road if you two start a new relationship with one another again.

[jstobo]

Wow, LC was extremely difficult today. She e-mailed me that swim team started today for the kids. She has the kids on Mondays and Tuesdays. I noticed the swimming conflicted with my daughters hitting clinic. I responded to her e-mail asking what she needed me to do. I didn't have anything todaynuntil 6. She wrote back, you can pick up today at 5, drop off tomorrow etc. etc. No thank you for offering to help me out or anything. I simply responded with Your Welcome. 2 minutes later, I get an e-mail saying yes-thank you. I figured that was the end of it. 15 minutes later I get an e-mail with her saying she didn't want to sound mean or unappreciative. She is just trying to be impersonal as I requested. She also wrote that it has been awkward and that she isn't crazy about it (she's referring to me being distant and not talking to her). She ended the e-mail writing, she doesn't know how to do this right.

 

It took everything I had today to not respond to the e-mail. I wanted to so badly. I did manage to make it through the day without responding.

[change]

Something the MC we saw resonated with me for a long time after the fact...and I don't think it sunk in for a long time. I said something like "Well he can't just change over night...and he'll just revert back to the way that he was!" and she said (paraphrasing here) 'If I didn't believe people could change overnight I would be in the wrong profession. Change begins with the choice to change. Once a person is aware of the things they need to change they are able to change them. This doesn't mean he'll never get angry again or act like the imperfect person that he is, but it does mean he's able to turn his back on some of his old habits entirely and not return to them now that he's aware of them'.

 

It took me a long time to believe his changes were real. I didn't not trust that he wouldn't revert back to the old HIM. Sounds like you've been nice more than not nice...but when you're not it reminds her of before and she fears your "nice" is a temporary state meant to trick her into falling back in love with you. I think she's confused and scared.

 

Wow.

 

Wow.

 

My wife and I are separated, and she's expressed virtually the exact same thing about the changes I've been making (addressing my depression with a professional and my sexual dysfunction). She wants me to make them for me and not for her. She's afraid that if she comes back, the changes will stop.

 

Well, at least that was what she was saying less than a week ago.

 

Just as we started getting closer, she decided that she probably didn't want the relationship. She made me cancel MC. And she's withdrawn to very LC. We'll be in a trial separation now for three months (different houses). And today she changed her Facebook status to single, so apparently she's intending to date, which was up in the air previously.

 

I think right now she thinks she's confronting her fear of being alone. Really, it's a fear-fear situation -- she's afraid of coming back and she's afraid of being alone. And being alone looks less risky. (She's expressed that she sees me as too much of a "risk" and that someone else might be less risky.)

 

Can you shed any light on this confusing behavior, ShatteredReality? It seems like you have a fair amount of insight into my wife's outlook.

[dreamingoftigers]

Wow.

 

Wow.

 

My wife and I are separated, and she's expressed virtually the exact same thing about the changes I've been making (addressing my depression with a professional and my sexual dysfunction). She wants me to make them for me and not for her. She's afraid that if she comes back, the changes will stop.

 

Well, at least that was what she was saying less than a week ago.

 

Just as we started getting closer, she decided that she probably didn't want the relationship. She made me cancel MC. And she's withdrawn to very LC. We'll be in a trial separation now for three months (different houses). And today she changed her Facebook status to single, so apparently she's intending to date, which was up in the air previously.

 

I think right now she thinks she's confronting her fear of being alone. Really, it's a fear-fear situation -- she's afraid of coming back and she's afraid of being alone. And being alone looks less risky. (She's expressed that she sees me as too much of a "risk" and that someone else might be less risky.)

 

Can you shed any light on this confusing behavior, ShatteredReality? It seems like you have a fair amount of insight into my wife's outlook.

 

It is her freaking at the moment the relationship might become healthy. It causes her to face her own demons and they can be pretty scary.

 

Hold to your changes 100% and support her decisions. Let her know that you just want her to be happy and let it drop from there.

 

Wait and then see.

 

My H is an addict, I pretty much dumped him two days before entering into treatment. Fear mixed with resent and anger. I have to work through it, so will your wife. You can't set the pace right now. Just breathe and let it go.

[ShatteredReality]

Wow, LC was extremely difficult today. She e-mailed me that swim team started today for the kids. She has the kids on Mondays and Tuesdays. I noticed the swimming conflicted with my daughters hitting clinic. I responded to her e-mail asking what she needed me to do. I didn't have anything todaynuntil 6. She wrote back, you can pick up today at 5, drop off tomorrow etc. etc. No thank you for offering to help me out or anything. I simply responded with Your Welcome. 2 minutes later, I get an e-mail saying yes-thank you. I figured that was the end of it. 15 minutes later I get an e-mail with her saying she didn't want to sound mean or unappreciative. She is just trying to be impersonal as I requested. She also wrote that it has been awkward and that she isn't crazy about it (she's referring to me being distant and not talking to her). She ended the e-mail writing, she doesn't know how to do this right.

 

It took everything I had today to not respond to the e-mail. I wanted to so badly. I did manage to make it through the day without responding.

 

Maybe - since you have tried everything else - this is what will finally work with her! lol...I am sure seeing you be healthy and happy with who you are, and watching you make these improvements has been all well and good - but she's still afraid it's all smoke in mirrors. I mean...we women are told that once a man hits you he will continue to do so. Once he cheats he will cheat again. Once he becomes an addict he will fall off the wagon again. The common theme to all of this being that a man (this refers to women also, but I'm speaking from the womans pov - not just trying to generalize) will always revert back to whatever it was he was doing before. This isn't always true...but because it can be and often is, it is a scary thing to walk out onto that ledge when you feel like you can see the ground below and you're certain at some point you'll wind up falling.

 

Hopefully she will see that, even with her distancing herself, you are going to be this "new improved" you that you've built yourself into and perhaps come back to you. Hopefully she doesn't wait too long though, because at some point you will work through all of this pain and some other woman will reap the benefits of all of this hard work you've done!!

 

Wow.

 

Wow.

 

My wife and I are separated, and she's expressed virtually the exact same thing about the changes I've been making (addressing my depression with a professional and my sexual dysfunction). She wants me to make them for me and not for her. She's afraid that if she comes back, the changes will stop.

 

Well, at least that was what she was saying less than a week ago.

 

Just as we started getting closer, she decided that she probably didn't want the relationship. She made me cancel MC. And she's withdrawn to very LC. We'll be in a trial separation now for three months (different houses). And today she changed her Facebook status to single, so apparently she's intending to date, which was up in the air previously.

 

I think right now she thinks she's confronting her fear of being alone. Really, it's a fear-fear situation -- she's afraid of coming back and she's afraid of being alone. And being alone looks less risky. (She's expressed that she sees me as too much of a "risk" and that someone else might be less risky.)

 

Can you shed any light on this confusing behavior, ShatteredReality? It seems like you have a fair amount of insight into my wife's outlook.

 

Well she sounds very confused and scared. What I wrote above to Jstobo applies here too - she's afraid that returning to you will get her back into the same place she came to hate before. When you first start a relationship...or even when you break up and then get back together often times, there is that excitement that keeps you moving forward. Once things settle in and the "new" is gone there has to be something to keep you both there. Treating eachother right is a big one...working on eachothers needs instead of just your own....those types of things. The reason we date and marry and all of that is for the companionship of it. We want someone to love and someone who loves us - but more importantly makes us feel loved.

 

And she's right - those changes you're making need to be for you. If they are for her it won't stick. It's like the diet a woman goes on to fit into a particular dress...she's doing it for the wrong reason. If all she wants is to fit into that dress she will be able to starve herself down to that size or whatever...then after she wears the dress and feels good about herself she will reward herself with some cake. Or the sweet alcohol drinks she's been avoiding. Or chips. Whatever her food vice. And then she gets busy and puts working out on hold...eventually she no longer fits in that dress and now she's more depressed than she was before because she worked SO hard to get there and gained it all back again so easily. And if she does work hard but never fits in the dress - forget it! She'll eat an entire bakery in the depression that kind of failure causes. Making permanent personality changes are along those lines...if you have the wrong "goal" line in front of you and you don't attain that "goal" it can be discouraging and you will backslide and backslide until all the old bad habits are back.

 

A friend of mine suffers from depressions. She's finally found a tx that works for her and she's amazed at how much of a better wife and friend she feels like she is. She says this is because depression is a very selfish disease. She says that when a person is depressed it becomes all about them. All the reasons why their world is falling apart. While this is ok to do sometimes, it should not be a permanent state of thinking. So ultimately the rest of us were all secondary to how she was feeling for the day and she feels like she missed so many opportunities to be a good friend to me or a good wife to her husband and be the shoulder for either of us to cry on so to speak. While her depression never really bothered me and I never saw her as a failure in any way - I know what a debilitating disease it can be - I have to say this new and improved her is really cool. But she's making these improvements to make her quality of life better - ultimately having it improve her marriage and friendships is just a bonus.

 

SOOOO - long novel coming to a close - KEEP making these changes. Let your wife see them. Unfortunately LC and living seperate lives is NOT going to help make the marriage stronger or better. It isn't the most ideal situation. But - work with what you've got. Go for it - give her her time. She's scared. She's confused. She's lonely (many SOs of depressed ppl are - and the depressed person often doesn't even realize it). She very well may date someone else, depending on her level of codependency issues (which she most likely has)...at this point she's going to do what she is going to do...you can ask her not to date anybody else until this is figured out - and I certainly would. I would ask her to change that status back to "it's complicated" at the very least...not SINGLE....I mean you ARE still married....but - what I am saying is, make these changes and improvements...and then...Court her again. Be the "new you" and date her again. If she wants the thrill of dating then why not date you? Until the papers are signed you are still her husband. Take it slow...don't pressure her too much...but do the cheesy things you did to make her fall in love with you in the first place. And sometimes...mention the improvements you're making. But you don't have to mention them much...just some...mostly she should be able to see it. And up your Vitamin D to help with that depression.

[Soxfaninfl]

I believe a part of her still loves you. She just isn't IN love with you...and while some people don't get the difference or whatever, it's kind of a big deal for some women.

 

This is crap! You either love some one or you don't. There is no in between. This is a women thing not a man thing. I know 5 other men that have heard their wives say to them that they love them but are not in love with them anymore including myself. Women wonder why we are caught of guard when they are unhappy because women are not direct with men. You have to get to the point with men and be direct and not give hints.

[Soxfaninfl]

A quote from Mort Fortel:

 

"A person who says, "I love you, but I'm not IN

LOVE with you," is making a distinction between 2

different feelings. But NEITHER of those feelings

are love! I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you" is a

cop out. It basically means that I have no clue

how to make a relationship last LONG-TERM so I'm

exiting to get high from another short-term

romance. But whoever they're IN LOVE with now

will also eventually hear, "I love you, but I'm

not IN LOVE with you."

Edited April 26, 2011 by Soxfaninfl

[ShatteredReality]

This is crap! You either love some one or you don't. There is no in between. This is a women thing not a man thing. I know 5 other men that have heard their wives say to them that they love them but are not in love with them anymore including myself. Women wonder why we are caught of guard when they are unhappy because women are not direct with men. You have to get to the point with men and be direct and not give hints.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I love plenty of people. I love my children, I love my parents, I love my siblings and my cousins, neices and nephews. The love that I feel for all of them is a different feeling of love than I feel for my closest friends....and is different still from the love that I feel with my husband. They are all love though. The English language is one of the few languages that only has one word for love...most languages have multiple words for the feeling of love to distinguish the different types being conveyed. You can love a person without being romantically in love with them. When a woman says to her husband that she is no longer in love with him it means that, while she does still love him and care about his general well being, she has no romantic feelings toward him anymore...or perhaps it means that she's simply afraid to open herself up to him anymore in the way you do with a spouse only. I have fallen out and back into love with my husband plenty of times over the years...now, if I feel the space between us growing and the romantic love cooling off, I tell him so...before I feel that there is "something missing" or lacking. I also tell him what I feel like I might need...I don't drop hints anymore, but I also don't give him the exact answer. I tell him "Take me on a date - make me feel like you still want me - surprize me and show me that YOU still love ME..." and he gets to figure out what to do with that. He knows me...he doesn't have to take me anywhere fancy or buy me expensive gifts, just something to let me know how he feels. It's all too easy in our lives to get into our routines and go about our lives and before we know it the person we claim to want to spend the rest of our lives sharing things with is just someone we see in passing at home and no longer share things with us regularly the way they once did...it takes both parties to get that back. ( I say that b/c it's not just his job to keep me in love with him....I work at making sure he's IN LOVE with me also)

 

A quote from Mort Fortel:

 

"A person who says, "I love you, but I'm not IN

LOVE with you," is making a distinction between 2

different feelings. But NEITHER of those feelings

are love! I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you" is a

cop out. It basically means that I have no clue

how to make a relationship last LONG-TERM so I'm

exiting to get high from another short-term

romance. But whoever they're IN LOVE with now

will also eventually hear, "I love you, but I'm

not IN LOVE with you."

 

This may be true for some...but I believe I covered my opinion above. You don't have to share my opinion...you can disagree...but please don't criticize or degrade me for having my own opinion based on my own experiences and I will show you the same respect and not insult you for yours.

Edited April 26, 2011 by ShatteredReality
sp

[Soxfaninfl]

I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I love plenty of people. I love my children, I love my parents, I love my siblings and my cousins, neices and nephews. The love that I feel for all of them is a different feeling of love than I feel for my closest friends....and is different still from the love that I feel with my husband. They are all love though. The English language is one of the few languages that only has one word for love...most languages have multiple words for the feeling of love to distinguish the different types being conveyed. You can love a person without being romantically in love with them. When a woman says to her husband that she is no longer in love with him it means that, while she does still love him and care about his general well being, she has no romantic feelings toward him anymore...or perhaps it means that she's simply afraid to open herself up to him anymore in the way you do with a spouse only. I have fallen out and back into love with my husband plenty of times over the years...now, if I feel the space between us growing and the romantic love cooling off, I tell him so...before I feel that there is "something missing" or lacking. I also tell him what I feel like I might need...I don't drop hints anymore, but I also don't give him the exact answer. I tell him "Take me on a date - make me feel like you still want me - surprize me and show me that YOU still love ME..." and he gets to figure out what to do with that. He knows me...he doesn't have to take me anywhere fancy or buy me expensive gifts, just something to let me know how he feels. It's all too easy in our lives to get into our routines and go about our lives and before we know it the person we claim to want to spend the rest of our lives sharing things with is just someone we see in passing at home and no longer share things with us regularly the way they once did...it takes both parties to get that back. ( I say that b/c it's not just his job to keep me in love with him....I work at making sure he's IN LOVE with me also)

 

 

 

This may be true for some...but I believe I covered my opinion above. You don't have to share my opinion...you can disagree...but please don't criticize or degrade me for having my own opinion based on my own experiences and I will show you the same respect and not insult you for yours.

 

Like I said this is a woman thing. Men don't feel this way about women. We either love you or don't. No in between. You love your family because they are your blood. Your husband is not blood. You did love him, but you don't love him anymore. You care for him, but you don't love him.

 

while she does still love him and care about his general well being, she has no romantic feelings toward him anymore.

You don't love him anymore.You may care about that person, but that is not love. There are two types of love. Love for a family member or love for a partner/spouse or their are romantic loves and love for a family member. I care about my friends, but I don't love them. I have one female friend too. I care about her, but I don't love her. Men generally don't think or feel this way. Women may but Men don't.

 

I don't drop hints anymore, but I also don't give him the exact answer.

You need to be direct. Men don't think like women. You have to spell it out for us and tell us exactly what you want. Women expect us to read their minds and get it with hints we are not programmed like this. Take this as advice not as insult. That is your choice. Edited April 26, 2011 by Soxfaninfl

[ShatteredReality]

Like I said this is a woman thing. Men don't feel this way about women. We either love you or don't. No in between. You love your family because they are your blood. Your husband is not blood. You did love him, but you don't love him anymore. You care for him, but you don't love him.

 

I'll give you that it's a difference between men and women. However some men are even able to distinguish between having love for a person or being in love with someone. I do love my husband, very much - so to clarify, I am very much in love with him and we both work to keep eachother there.

 

You don't love him anymore.You may care about that person, but that is not love. There are two types of love. Love for a family member or love for a partner/spouse or their are romantic loves and love for a family member. I care about my friends, but I don't love them. I have one female friend too. I care about her, but I don't love her. Men generally don't think or feel this way. Women may but Men don't.

 

I can care about people and not love them. I know the difference. Again...perhaps you're right and this is a fundamental difference between men and women. However, if that's the case then when a woman says she loves a man but isn't in love with him, then it's true...just because it's not something you are capable of feeling in the same way doesn't mean she's full of it.

 

You need to be direct. Men don't think like women. You have to spell it out for us and tell us exactly what you want. Women expect us to read their minds and get it with hints we are not programmed like this. Take this as advice not as insult. That is your choice.

 

I am as direct as I need to be. I tell him that I need something and a general what it is that I need. I let him come up with a suitable solution that allows me to know he cares enough to think about it rather than have me give him detailed instructions and let him follow them like some machine. I don't expect him to pick up on hints, but if I tell him to take me on a date and he doesn't even cook me dinner once in the next seven days or sit down to watch a movie with me...then he's ignored my request. If he at least makes plans then that's satisfactory. If he tells me he's thinking of it, that's fine too. But if I tell him that I want attention and he ignores it - that's not him "not getting my hints" that's him not thinking of ways to give me attention. There's a difference. Relying on hints is useless...I don't understand his and he doesn't understand mine. However, if we tell one another what we need the other should be able to think of a way to supply it.

Edited April 26, 2011 by ShatteredReality
sp

[Soxfaninfl]

I'll give you that it's a difference between men and women. However some men are even able to distinguish between having love for a person or being in love with someone.

 

I have never met a man that has said this about his wife, ex-wife, girlfriend, ex-girlfriend or any other women. Men either love a women or they don't. I have tried to understand how women feel this way. I even bought the book "I love you but I'm not in love you." Men either love completely or don't. There isn't partial love for us.

 

I can care about people and not love them. I know the difference. Again...perhaps you're right and this is a fundamental difference between men and women. However, if that's the case then when a woman says she loves a man but isn't in love with him, then it's true...just because it's not something you are capable of feeling in the same way doesn't mean she's full of it

 

Like I said this is a women thing. In have never heard a man say this. That is why I was caught off guard when I heard it for the first time from stbxw.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Soxfaninfl

[change]

It is her freaking at the moment the relationship might become healthy. It causes her to face her own demons and they can be pretty scary.

 

Hold to your changes 100% and support her decisions. Let her know that you just want her to be happy and let it drop from there.

 

Wait and then see.

 

My H is an addict, I pretty much dumped him two days before entering into treatment. Fear mixed with resent and anger. I have to work through it, so will your wife. You can't set the pace right now. Just breathe and let it go.

 

Good advice. Hard to follow. Very hard. I find myself having to lie to her and tell her I'm happy, which is only partially true. I'm getting back to myself, but I'm terrified of not growing old with her because I love her so deeply. So it's happiness mixed with terror and sadness.

 

 

 

I let her know last Friday that I realized that she needed space and time and distance without pressure to clear her head and get in touch with wants and what makes her happy. She also agreed that that was what she needed. That's how we got to a place of cancelling MC, etc.

 

Talked to her yesterday in the process of arranging our house transfer (I'm moving out and she's moving back in).

 

She thanked me for taking the pressure off of her. She no longer feels like she is "in limbo" and she has the freedom to explore herself and grow and let things happen naturally. She's been extremely happy the last few days, feeling like she has this freedom. She described it as being a totally different person. She feels we were both sad people (I don't know if that means we made each other sad or what) and that we're both working on being happy, whole people. She's not ready to start working on a close friendship, because she still needs distance from me. She knows this is difficult and will let me know as soon as that changes (she wants to talk to her IC).

 

I.......... I'm happy she's happy. And she's not one to let people down easily or spare feelings, so I can't assume that she's decided the relationship has no change -- otherwise she would be calling me to tell me this separation was permanent and we should divide our stuff up.

 

I can't reconcile her incredible happiness with a chance for us to rebuild a relationship.

 

Am I the only one that finds this deeply confusing?

[change]

Maybe - since you have tried everything else - this is what will finally work with her! lol...I am sure seeing you be healthy and happy with who you are, and watching you make these improvements has been all well and good - but she's still afraid it's all smoke in mirrors. I mean...we women are told that once a man hits you he will continue to do so. Once he cheats he will cheat again. Once he becomes an addict he will fall off the wagon again. The common theme to all of this being that a man (this refers to women also, but I'm speaking from the womans pov - not just trying to generalize) will always revert back to whatever it was he was doing before. This isn't always true...but because it can be and often is, it is a scary thing to walk out onto that ledge when you feel like you can see the ground below and you're certain at some point you'll wind up falling.

 

Hopefully she will see that, even with her distancing herself, you are going to be this "new improved" you that you've built yourself into and perhaps come back to you. Hopefully she doesn't wait too long though, because at some point you will work through all of this pain and some other woman will reap the benefits of all of this hard work you've done!!

 

I agree with ShatteredReality here. It's terrifying and intensely difficult. But I totally agree with ShatteredReality on all counts. Good luck to both of us, Jstobo.

 

Well she sounds very confused and scared. What I wrote above to Jstobo applies here too - she's afraid that returning to you will get her back into the same place she came to hate before. When you first start a relationship...or even when you break up and then get back together often times, there is that excitement that keeps you moving forward. Once things settle in and the "new" is gone there has to be something to keep you both there. Treating eachother right is a big one...working on eachothers needs instead of just your own....those types of things. The reason we date and marry and all of that is for the companionship of it. We want someone to love and someone who loves us - but more importantly makes us feel loved.

 

And she's right - those changes you're making need to be for you. If they are for her it won't stick. It's like the diet a woman goes on to fit into a particular dress...she's doing it for the wrong reason. If all she wants is to fit into that dress she will be able to starve herself down to that size or whatever...then after she wears the dress and feels good about herself she will reward herself with some cake. Or the sweet alcohol drinks she's been avoiding. Or chips. Whatever her food vice. And then she gets busy and puts working out on hold...eventually she no longer fits in that dress and now she's more depressed than she was before because she worked SO hard to get there and gained it all back again so easily. And if she does work hard but never fits in the dress - forget it! She'll eat an entire bakery in the depression that kind of failure causes. Making permanent personality changes are along those lines...if you have the wrong "goal" line in front of you and you don't attain that "goal" it can be discouraging and you will backslide and backslide until all the old bad habits are back.

 

A friend of mine suffers from depressions. She's finally found a tx that works for her and she's amazed at how much of a better wife and friend she feels like she is. She says this is because depression is a very selfish disease. She says that when a person is depressed it becomes all about them. All the reasons why their world is falling apart. While this is ok to do sometimes, it should not be a permanent state of thinking. So ultimately the rest of us were all secondary to how she was feeling for the day and she feels like she missed so many opportunities to be a good friend to me or a good wife to her husband and be the shoulder for either of us to cry on so to speak. While her depression never really bothered me and I never saw her as a failure in any way - I know what a debilitating disease it can be - I have to say this new and improved her is really cool. But she's making these improvements to make her quality of life better - ultimately having it improve her marriage and friendships is just a bonus.

 

SOOOO - long novel coming to a close - KEEP making these changes. Let your wife see them. Unfortunately LC and living seperate lives is NOT going to help make the marriage stronger or better. It isn't the most ideal situation. But - work with what you've got. Go for it - give her her time. She's scared. She's confused. She's lonely (many SOs of depressed ppl are - and the depressed person often doesn't even realize it). She very well may date someone else, depending on her level of codependency issues (which she most likely has)...at this point she's going to do what she is going to do...you can ask her not to date anybody else until this is figured out - and I certainly would. I would ask her to change that status back to "it's complicated" at the very least...not SINGLE....I mean you ARE still married....but - what I am saying is, make these changes and improvements...and then...Court her again. Be the "new you" and date her again. If she wants the thrill of dating then why not date you? Until the papers are signed you are still her husband. Take it slow...don't pressure her too much...but do the cheesy things you did to make her fall in love with you in the first place. And sometimes...mention the improvements you're making. But you don't have to mention them much...just some...mostly she should be able to see it. And up your Vitamin D to help with that depression.

 

Your advice all rings true.

 

I'm hoping that as we begin building the close friendship again, which she strongly wants but isn't ready for yet (still needs distance), she will start seeing her husband again -- the one that she described a couple weeks ago as having "died" sometime in the last few years.

 

She felt so rejected in our marriage -- I still don't know entirely how or how I missed it -- that she "actively forced" herself to stop being attracted to me. Right now, the attraction isn't there. As I have more confidence in myself and am a happier more secure person, I can only hope that it will come back. I believe this lack of attraction, combined with the fear and trust issues on her end, are why she does not want to date me yet. Or make any promises that she will or will not in the future.

 

I will court her again. The only way this would be impossible is if she finds someone else during this time. Or if she decides she can never be attracted to me again. I tend to think attraction isn't something you can make a decision to lose, just something you can bury, so I'm hopeful that it will come back.

 

I'm finding myself again. I'm happy about that. I'm also terrified. I have to selfishly admit that I wish I sensed some terror on her part. Something more than "I'm processing 24/7 right now what I'm going through and there isn't room in that for me to share with anyone else right now."

 

Is this intense happiness something anyone else has experienced before that's been in a relationship with an addict or someone with depression? ShatteredReality? DreamingOfTigers?

[jstobo]

I think I got thread jacked!

[change]

I think I got thread jacked!

 

 

I'm sorry, Jstobo!

 

If I was part of the threadjacking -- and it looks like I might have been -- it was totally unintentional!

[ShatteredReality]

I think I got thread jacked!

 

You totally did...but, even though I know I was totally a part of it (as a prepare to respond to the thread jacking still) I claim innocence. Wasn't my fault at all How are things now Jstobo??? Did you survive the fight not to respond to that e-mail and remain cool calm and collected??

[ShatteredReality]

I have never met a man that has said this about his wife, ex-wife, girlfriend, ex-girlfriend or any other women. Men either love a women or they don't. I have tried to understand how women feel this way. I even bought the book "I love you but I'm not in love you." Men either love completely or don't. There isn't partial love for us.

 

I have heard a few men say this and have completely understood where they came from. I think most men are like you say - but there are some who are more...sensitive? Emotional?? Something...different...and thus understand this feeling from some women.

 

 

Like I said this is a women thing. In have never heard a man say this. That is why I was caught off guard when I heard it for the first time from stbxw.

 

I have yet to meet a man who isn't caught off guard when his wife tell him this. I am sorry you've had to go through it.

 

Good advice. Hard to follow. Very hard. I find myself having to lie to her and tell her I'm happy, which is only partially true. I'm getting back to myself, but I'm terrified of not growing old with her because I love her so deeply. So it's happiness mixed with terror and sadness.

 

I let her know last Friday that I realized that she needed space and time and distance without pressure to clear her head and get in touch with wants and what makes her happy. She also agreed that that was what she needed. That's how we got to a place of cancelling MC, etc.

 

At some point, you will both need to find an adequate type of communication where you can openly and honestly tell one another about eachother faults...vent to each other....and not blow up when the other person says something negative. You will BOTH need to be able to listen and really try to view things from the others point of view and think about how it would feel to be on the other side of this mess...

 

She thanked me for taking the pressure off of her. She no longer feels like she is "in limbo" and she has the freedom to explore herself and grow and let things happen naturally. She's been extremely happy the last few days, feeling like she has this freedom. She described it as being a totally different person. She feels we were both sad people (I don't know if that means we made each other sad or what) and that we're both working on being happy, whole people. She's not ready to start working on a close friendship, because she still needs distance from me. She knows this is difficult and will let me know as soon as that changes (she wants to talk to her IC).

 

I.......... I'm happy she's happy. And she's not one to let people down easily or spare feelings, so I can't assume that she's decided the relationship has no change -- otherwise she would be calling me to tell me this separation was permanent and we should divide our stuff up.

 

I can't reconcile her incredible happiness with a chance for us to rebuild a relationship.

 

Am I the only one that finds this deeply confusing?

 

I think anyone going through these types of trials is deeply confused. Both sides of it too. Your wife because now she's able to relax and feel happy in ways she wasn't able to before, but she still loves you and wants to be with you in many respects...so now she doesn't know what she really wants and it's all too much and she feels like her head it going to explode or her heart. You because this was probably somewhat unexpected even though it may have been a long time coming and now you're in a mess you didn't even see yourself walking into and how the hell do you get out right?

 

Yeah...it's confusing.

 

I agree with ShatteredReality here. It's terrifying and intensely difficult. But I totally agree with ShatteredReality on all counts. Good luck to both of us, Jstobo.

 

Your advice all rings true.

 

I'm hoping that as we begin building the close friendship again, which she strongly wants but isn't ready for yet (still needs distance), she will start seeing her husband again -- the one that she described a couple weeks ago as having "died" sometime in the last few years.

 

It's the only way to survive sometimes. The person you loves hurts you so much...and even if they don't know it and therefore can't stop it...it's real and it can kill you slowly over time. So you view the person you loved as gone completely because it is just too much to see that person as being this same person who hurts you on such a regular basis...again, just kind of how it feels....not saying you were trying to inflict the pain.

 

She felt so rejected in our marriage -- I still don't know entirely how or how I missed it -- that she "actively forced" herself to stop being attracted to me. Right now, the attraction isn't there. As I have more confidence in myself and am a happier more secure person, I can only hope that it will come back. I believe this lack of attraction, combined with the fear and trust issues on her end, are why she does not want to date me yet. Or make any promises that she will or will not in the future.

 

Like I said...survival kicks in...she did what she had to do...plus...how attractive is someone when they're hurting you?? It will take her time to put those walls she has constructed down...it will take a lot of internal warring on her part first too as she battles the want vs the logical thoughts of whether she should or not.

 

I will court her again. The only way this would be impossible is if she finds someone else during this time. Or if she decides she can never be attracted to me again. I tend to think attraction isn't something you can make a decision to lose, just something you can bury, so I'm hopeful that it will come back.

 

I'm finding myself again. I'm happy about that. I'm also terrified. I have to selfishly admit that I wish I sensed some terror on her part. Something more than "I'm processing 24/7 right now what I'm going through and there isn't room in that for me to share with anyone else right now."

 

Is this intense happiness something anyone else has experienced before that's been in a relationship with an addict or someone with depression? ShatteredReality? DreamingOfTigers?

 

Continue to find yourself. Jstobo got a lot of really great advice in this thread...since we jacked it you may as well go back and find some of the advice and try to apply it...sounds like you are already making strides, but continue to do so. Do not be discouraged and give up. It won't get you anywhere.

 

As for the intense happiness. Yes. I have had that. It's scary. You don't forget it and then when things get hard again you think about it and remember it...it's kind of easy to idealize it and say "if I had just walked away then I would still feel like that now" but that isn't true. What I believe it is is that first jolt where you finally don't have to take care of him anymore. I am not saying this doesn't happen to men...but speaking from what I know about it. You feel like you're taking care of this man...and then he abuses and neglects you and all of your efforts in some way...so then you begin to resent that you're doing all of this for him and eventually even resent him. When you get some time away from them it's this huge weight off of your shoulders...something that you worry about 24/7 without even realizing that you're worrying about it...someone else who you feel like you have to keep it together at all times in order to support emotionally/physically or financially (or all three sometimes)...and now that's gone. You get to be you for a minute. You can breathe. Does any of that make sense?

[jstobo]

You totally did...but, even though I know I was totally a part of it (as a prepare to respond to the thread jacking still) I claim innocence. Wasn't my fault at all How are things now Jstobo??? Did you survive the fight not to respond to that e-mail and remain cool calm and collected??

 

I sensed something was up yesterday when I saw her at our son's game. We texted a few things about the kids this morning. Then I broke down and texted her that I hated having such little contact with her, but I was getting better each day and it was best for me. She replied with

 

That turned into a few more texts and finally I had to call. She was crying immediately and said she has had a really hard time not talking to me and it was so nice just seeing me at the game. So I asked her if she was sure she wanted a divorce. She said she didn't know and she knows I have been doing so much better and she doesn't want to ruin that for me. Unfortunately, the phone call had to end abruptly because she is a teacher and her students were showing up.

 

I have no clue as to what to do now. I did not expect this.

[dreamingoftigers]

This is crap! You either love some one or you don't. There is no in between. This is a women thing not a man thing. I know 5 other men that have heard their wives say to them that they love them but are not in love with them anymore including myself. Women wonder why we are caught of guard when they are unhappy because women are not direct with men. You have to get to the point with men and be direct and not give hints.

 

I have absolutely heard of men saying it. I think that a lot of women are direct and then it gets called "nagging." Sometimes you can't win.

 

Good advice. Hard to follow. Very hard. I find myself having to lie to her and tell her I'm happy, which is only partially true. I'm getting back to myself, but I'm terrified of not growing old with her because I love her so deeply. So it's happiness mixed with terror and sadness.

 

I will tell you something, as soon as you get past the terror of it all and realize that you will survive, something subconsciously changes in the energy between you and her. I don't know why, I don't know how. But I do know that you gain instant power over the situation and you can see the forest and not just one tree. And all of a sudden you can let her go with no fear and that is when she comes running at you and you can see her from a mile away. Don't wait for it, in fact let it go, it is like a rubber band holds you two together and she runs and runs and you run after her because the stretch is so uncomfortable. The second you stand in place and deal with the stretch, she will only go as far as she is comfortable.

 

I let her know last Friday that I realized that she needed space and time and distance without pressure to clear her head and get in touch with wants and what makes her happy. She also agreed that that was what she needed. That's how we got to a place of cancelling MC, etc.

 

Talked to her yesterday in the process of arranging our house transfer (I'm moving out and she's moving back in).

 

She thanked me for taking the pressure off of her. She no longer feels like she is "in limbo" and she has the freedom to explore herself and grow and let things happen naturally. She's been extremely happy the last few days, feeling like she has this freedom. She described it as being a totally different person. She feels we were both sad people (I don't know if that means we made each other sad or what) and that we're both working on being happy, whole people. She's not ready to start working on a close friendship, because she still needs distance from me. She knows this is difficult and will let me know as soon as that changes (she wants to talk to her IC).

 

And she will work on herself and feel that stretch until she realizes that it is more then just a casual thing.

 

I.......... I'm happy she's happy. And she's not one to let people down easily or spare feelings, so I can't assume that she's decided the relationship has no change -- otherwise she would be calling me to tell me this separation was permanent and we should divide our stuff up.

 

I can't reconcile her incredible happiness with a chance for us to rebuild a relationship.

 

Am I the only one that finds this deeply confusing?

 

You aren't alone but I can tell you that things do shift. There are many paradoxes in being separated.

Here:

 

http://jryankennedy.com/uploads/Handout-Healing_Separation_Explanation.pdf

 

 

I'm hoping that as we begin building the close friendship again, which she strongly wants but isn't ready for yet (still needs distance), she will start seeing her husband again -- the one that she described a couple weeks ago as having "died" sometime in the last few years.

 

She felt so rejected in our marriage -- I still don't know entirely how or how I missed it -- that she "actively forced" herself to stop being attracted to me. Right now, the attraction isn't there. As I have more confidence in myself and am a happier more secure person, I can only hope that it will come back. I believe this lack of attraction, combined with the fear and trust issues on her end, are why she does not want to date me yet. Or make any promises that she will or will not in the future.

 

I will court her again. The only way this would be impossible is if she finds someone else during this time. Or if she decides she can never be attracted to me again. I tend to think attraction isn't something you can make a decision to lose, just something you can bury, so I'm hopeful that it will come back.

 

I'm finding myself again. I'm happy about that. I'm also terrified. I have to selfishly admit that I wish I sensed some terror on her part. Something more than "I'm processing 24/7 right now what I'm going through and there isn't room in that for me to share with anyone else right now."

 

Is this intense happiness something anyone else has experienced before that's been in a relationship with an addict or someone with depression? ShatteredReality? DreamingOfTigers?

 

I am married to an addict right now who is in treatment.

 

I sensed something was up yesterday when I saw her at our son's game. We texted a few things about the kids this morning. Then I broke down and texted her that I hated having such little contact with her, but I was getting better each day and it was best for me. She replied with

 

That turned into a few more texts and finally I had to call. She was crying immediately and said she has had a really hard time not talking to me and it was so nice just seeing me at the game. So I asked her if she was sure she wanted a divorce. She said she didn't know and she knows I have been doing so much better and she doesn't want to ruin that for me. Unfortunately, the phone call had to end abruptly because she is a teacher and her students were showing up.

 

I have no clue as to what to do now. I did not expect this.

 

Just wait and leave it in her hands, she'll set the pace if she is interested.

[ShatteredReality]

I sensed something was up yesterday when I saw her at our son's game. We texted a few things about the kids this morning. Then I broke down and texted her that I hated having such little contact with her, but I was getting better each day and it was best for me. She replied with

 

That turned into a few more texts and finally I had to call. She was crying immediately and said she has had a really hard time not talking to me and it was so nice just seeing me at the game. So I asked her if she was sure she wanted a divorce. She said she didn't know and she knows I have been doing so much better and she doesn't want to ruin that for me. Unfortunately, the phone call had to end abruptly because she is a teacher and her students were showing up.

 

I have no clue as to what to do now. I did not expect this.

 

You embrace this as progress!!! Maybe she'll let you date her again and you two can get back together. Don't rush it...keep working on you and this healing process that you have to go through. Something that hasn't come up (at least not recently) is that if you two are able to reconcile you will have a trust issue now. This has been such a long and painful road for you that you will most likely have a fear of repeating it somehow and that can cause problems between the two of you in the future. That is why it's so important that you take care of your emotional self NOW. Come to terms with being ok with you - who you are - with or without her in your life.

 

She is seeing exactly what she's missing and her confusion will give way to wanting you back (hoping - I am ever the optimist) and eventually you two will begin the whole process again. Hopefully on the second run you will be able to communicate with eachother better - tell one another when things are coming up that bother you and be able to work through it.

 

Ok...so...this is a little off topic, but I am just giving a communication example here. Last night my husband and I got into an argument. It was really really stupid...but I took some pictures of him and of the kids off of his phone....copied them so I could have them. (Didn't delete them) He was furious. Not that I had gone through his phone, but that I had taken anything off of it. This was new ground we've never covered. He's taken things off my phone or added things in the past, so I had NO CLUE I stepped on any toes. He said I was out of line and I should have asked and all this and all that...rather than keeping my cool - I was taken so off guard that I didn't use any of my normal safe words or calm tone to say "Honey you're over reacting, take a minute to think about how this sounds to me" or any of the really good things we've made practice over these last two years. Instead, I became a bit of a b!tch. For lack of a better word. I snapped back at him and told him he was being childish and unfair and I didn't appreciate him yelling at me over something so stupid...I also said that I didn't do anything wrong and he needed to back off. Obviously this wasn't the best approach...all our good communication skills were out the window...and the real JERK side of him that I have always disliked was apparently struggling to get through. I see so little of that guy now that I sometimes don't realize when I am pushing those buttons. Anyways....we got ready for bed and he was really angry still, while I was basically just doing the whole don't touch him and don't speak unless spoken to thing (the wrong thing I know)...finally he said one thing that was bothering him was that I didn't even care that I'd done something to offend him. So I replied that initially I had tried to apologize (I had) but he railroaded over me with his anger and that I sort of lost it. I said I was sorry and that he needed to think about how it felt to have him blow up at me when I didn't even know I'd done anything wrong. Anyways, novel coming to a close...Finally he realized he blew up prematurely and I admitted I should have held it together a little longer to try to get him to see that...But I guess what I am saying is...it'll still happen...there will still be fights...but you will both need to learn how to diffuse the other...and then remember to actually do it. It takes time and patience...by the end of it we were back to our nice and normal routine....where a few years ago that little thing would have taken 3 hrs to resolve. And the first couple of fights...will scare her!! For sure...and maybe you too...but I see light at the end of your tunnel :)

 

Take it easy and take it slow....but she's finally starting to come around...all your hard work on you - she's starting to trust it....keep it up!! And sorry for the thread jack and also for that little side story about our argument...probably sounds silly...but you know....

[jstobo]

That was a great story. I enjoyed reading it because it is reality. I hope I have that kind of fight with my Wife again, because that will mean we are still together.

 

So we spoke again and it did not go so well. But keep reading. She was still keeping her guard up. When I wasn't getting a positive response I simply told her that I had misunderstood what she was thinking and I needed to go back to doing what I was doing. I told her I needed to go and we hung up. I was sitting there fuming, thinking how could I have been so stupid. So after a while, I texted her that I was so stupid and I would not fall for that again.

 

She immediately called me crying. She said she isn't sure she is doing the right thing. She said she had a talk with her mom about it. She asked me if I would go to dinner with her if she set it up. I said yes and we hung up the phone. Now I'm going to go back to LC and wait for her to reach out to me. Part of me thinks she could wake tomorrow feeling different. If she actually makes the dinner happen, than we're moving in the right direction.

[Lookinside]

Although I am the oppisite of every man who has posted on here. I am the woman who was no longer in love. I found someone else, moved on, moved out. He also moved on and found someone else. We have two kids. this happened a year and a half ago, and I regret it so much. I should have tried to fix myself, I was unhappy. We both gave up. Now all I want more than anything is my family back. I want my kids to see their parents happy and together again. I talked to him about it and he wants nothing to do with it. I made the decision to leave thinking that I would find myself and all I found was regret. I know that it is hard from either perspective, hers and yours. All I can say is work on yourself. There is only so much you can do to try to make her love you again. Love does fade, but I have hope that it can be revived. Also, when my ex tried to talk me out of leaving, it only made me want to leave more, I felt smothered. She can move out, there is so much help for single parents. It will all work out in the end. I just know from my experience that the one who will be regretful in the long run is her. Stay strong for yourself and especially for your children.

[Soxfaninfl]

have heard a few men say this and have completely understood where they came from. I think most men are like you say - but there are some who are more...sensitive? Emotional?? Something...different...and thus understand this feeling from some women.[/Quote]

 

Maybe I'm different. I don't know. I only know how to love or not.

 

I have yet to meet a man who isn't caught off guard when his wife tell him this. I am sorry you've had to go through it.[/Quote]It's the most painful thing that I have experience in my life! I'm in so much pain right now. I love my wife more than I love myself, but she doesn't love me anymore. Thank you