I'm having a lot of difficulty managing my anxiety

[Kamille]

So she posts here, hoping someone will encourage her anxiety and make her feel entitled to her negative feelings. And of course some negative Nancy will come along and validate her feelings, which somehow will make her feel better, because that's exactly what she wants.

 

 

Sac, would you characterize your thoughts about dating as obsessive?

 

I actually struggle with anxiety and obsession at work. When I catch myself in an obsessive thought, my therapist asks me to write it down my obsessive thought - usually a worst case scenario, then make two columns. One with evidence supporting the "truths" of my obsessive thoughts - he hasn't been in touch since Wednesday-, one with evidence countering it - he told me he liked me; we have a date for Tuesday; I knew he was going to be busy; he has never been high contact.

 

I think both you and Shadow tend to stay stuck on the column of worst-case scenario supporting evidence and never really get around to the worst-case-scenario countering evidence.

[Kamille]

I really like that Personal Bill of Rights! Very cool.

 

They have a total of 25 rights. My therapist recommended the handbook for me. I have yet to purchase it, waiting until I'm back home. She copied the Personal Bill of Rights and the list of affirmations for me. I read the Bill of Rights on a regular basis.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Sac, would you characterize your thoughts about dating as obsessive?

 

I actually struggle with anxiety and obsession at work. When I catch myself in an obsessive thought, my therapist asks me to write it down my obsessive thought - usually a worst case scenario, then make two columns. One with evidence supporting the "truths" of my obsessive thoughts - he hasn't been in touch since Wednesday-, one with evidence countering it - he told me he liked me; we have a date for Tuesday; I knew he was going to be busy; he has never been high contact.

 

I think both you and Shadow tend to stay stuck on the column of worst-case scenario supporting evidence and never really get around to the worst-case-scenario countering evidence.

 

I actually don't see where you got that I enjoy the anxiety. I can assure you I don't. I even proposed a solution to my problem, to take a break from dating and get back to being calm. If I did enjoy anxiety or drama, I would just keep on meeting new OKC men. I am surprised that both you and Star would come to that conclusion and can't really even see how that conclusion is logical at all based on my last post.

 

Kamille, my thoughts about dating are obsessive, no doubt about it. And this is not even about this guy. It's dating in general, or dating someone that I even remotely like. I need to deal with that internally before I am ready to date again. Dating and feeling constant crippling anxiety and obsessive thoughts is just a recipe for disaster.

[shadowplay]

I actually don't think SAC enjoys the anxiety, but I understand why she gravitates towards worst case scenarios. It's a coping mechanism I often use too. If you prepare yourself for the worst, the disappointment is less bruising. It also relieves you from a lot of the anxiety that comes from uncertainty. She and I seem to have trouble with uncertainty, because it fires up our obsessive thoughts.

 

But I wonder if this is a healthy mechanism? I guess the best approach is accept uncertainty and also convince yourself that it doesn't matter either way. Whatever happens, your life will basically be the same.

Edited September 26, 2010 by shadowplay

[Star Gazer]

It's a coping mechanism I often use too. If you prepare yourself for the worst, the disappointment is less bruising. It also relieves you from a lot of the anxiety that comes from uncertainty.

 

I haven't seen the disappointment be any less bruising for either one of you. You're still both so upset when things don't work out.

 

But even if it was less bruising, I don't see how that does either one of you any bit of good on a day to day basis. By focusing on worst case scenarios, you spend more time being anxious and negative and depressed than you would if you would just go with the flow and accept that life is uncertain. It's like you NEVER allow yourself to have a truly happy day... you must always throw some negative spin on it. Why?

[shadowplay]

I haven't seen the disappointment be any less bruising for either one of you. You're still both so upset when things don't work out.

 

But even if it was less bruising, I don't see how that does either one of you any bit of good on a day to day basis. By focusing on worst case scenarios, you spend more time being anxious and negative and depressed than you would if you would just go with the flow and accept that life is uncertain. It's like you NEVER allow yourself to have a truly happy day... you must always throw some negative spin on it. Why?

 

Well, it does help a little, but it's sort of like a bandaid. It only takes the edge very slightly off.

 

I agree that it's better to just be less negative. I'm trying to do this in my brain right now.

[Kamille]

I actually don't see where you got that I enjoy the anxiety.

 

I never actually said you enjoyed it. I think your anxiety is the effect of compulsion. The way I see it, they're linked to a very emotional process for you. You seem to live everything related to dating as an incredible high "he called" quickly followed by an incredible low "but he did xyz which indicates he is low interest". The charged emotional content of your approach to dating is likely linked to some negative belief you hold to be true about yourself. I don't know what that negative belief is, but it could be as simple as: "I'll never find love". Whatever this negative belief is, it's likely at the root of your anxiety. I think you're trying to confirm or infirm your negative belief with every guy you date, and that's why it causes so much anxiety and fear.

 

As to what you should do, I agree your well-being comes first and truly wish you find your way to being calm again.

[Star Gazer]

Well, it does help a little, but it's sort of like a bandaid. It only takes the edge very slightly off.

 

And like a bandaid, you still have the pain of ripping it off. Why increase the discomfort that naturally comes with dating?

 

Live in the moment. Go with the flow. It's so much easier and FUN.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I actually don't think SAC enjoys the anxiety, but I understand why she gravitates towards worst case scenarios. It's a coping mechanism I often use too. If you prepare yourself for the worst, the disappointment is less bruising. It also relieves you from a lot of the anxiety that comes from uncertainty. She and I seem to have trouble with uncertainty, because it fires up our obsessive thoughts.

 

But I wonder if this is a healthy mechanism? I guess the best approach is accept uncertainty and also convince yourself that it doesn't matter either way. Whatever happens, your life will basically be the same.

 

Bingo. That's exactly it. Imagining worst case scenarios is something I have been doing since my teens. I have trouble with uncertainty and since there is not much I can do about that, I play out the worst case scenario in my mind. This removes uncertainty for me because I already know and expect the worst to happen. So it's as if it has already happened before it actually happens. I feel comforted and like I at least won't be shocked when it does happen. I still get hurt when it does happen in reality but less because I was prepared.

[Star Gazer]

Bingo. That's exactly it. Imagining worst case scenarios is something I have been doing since my teens. I have trouble with uncertainty and since there is not much I can do about that, I play out the worst case scenario in my mind. This removes uncertainty for me because I already know and expect the worst to happen. So it's as if it has already happened before it actually happens. I feel comforted and like I at least won't be shocked when it does happen. I still get hurt when it does happen in reality but less because I was prepared.

 

Rather than focusing on what could happen if the worse case scenario were to come true, I challenge you both to think this:

 

Without even defining XYZ, tell youself: "So what if XYZ happens? *Shrug* Won't be a first! And it won't change how awesome I am. I'll be okay!"

[shadowplay]

Bingo. That's exactly it. Imagining worst case scenarios is something I have been doing since my teens. I have trouble with uncertainty and since there is not much I can do about that, I play out the worst case scenario in my mind. This removes uncertainty for me because I already know and expect the worst to happen. So it's as if it has already happened before it actually happens. I feel comforted and like I at least won't be shocked when it does happen. I still get hurt when it does happen in reality but less because I was prepared.

 

Yup, couldn't have put it better myself.

[shadowplay]

Running is cheap. It's just the cost of a pair of running shoes.

 

Totally get you on CF. I purposefully chose a different CF so to avoid someone I had dated (and I didn't have any negative feelings, just didn't want to go to "his" gym). Plus, CF isn't like a gym where you can really avoid the people that are there. You'd likely literally be lifting and sweating a few feet away from him...

 

Good, well that makes me feel like less of a weirdo for avoiding his gym.

 

Running might be good. This will take a little anxiety challenging for me, but I might try it.

 

It's silly but I hate being seen exercising by people who know me. I think it's just looking sweaty and disheveled. I'm one of those people who has trouble going out in a public in a place where I might run into people I know unless I look perfect. I rarely leave the house without makeup, for example. It's probably this root fear that my attractiveness hinges on brushing up, rather than natural good looks.

 

But maybe I can get around this by running in the early morning.

[shadowplay]

Without even defining XYZ, tell youself: "So what if XYZ happens? *Shrug* Won't be a first! And it won't change how awesome I am. I'll be okay!"

 

Yep, this is exactly what I've been thinking to myself all afternoon.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Ages ago, when my boss saw my thinking patterns and how I deal with uncertainty with imagining worst case scenarios (I do it at work too) - he asked me to do an exercise. Write down my current concern and a prediction on how it will play out. The prediction for me is almost always negative (actually the more I care about something, the more negative it is). And then write down what actually happens. Do this over a longer period and then calculate the % of worst case scenarios that ended up coming true.

 

I avoided doing this but maybe I should start now...

[shadowplay]

I wonder if another thing that might help both of us is to not let ourselves get excited when a guy does show interest in any small way.

 

Kamille is right on target when she says that we derive a natural high from getting affirmation, which quickly crashes when it is followed by any possible sign of rejection.

 

So, in a sense, letting myself get a high from positive feedback is really dangerous.

[shadowplay]

Ages ago, when my boss saw my thinking patterns and how I deal with uncertainty with imagining worst case scenarios (I do it at work too) - he asked me to do an exercise. Write down my current concern and a prediction on how it will play out. The prediction for me is almost always negative (actually the more I care about something, the more negative it is). And then write down what actually happens. Do this over a longer period and then calculate the % of worst case scenarios that ended up coming true.

 

I avoided doing this but maybe I should start now...

 

that would be interesting!

 

I think part of the problem though is we both have a fairly high batting average in predicting negative outcomes because we often engineer our own negative outcomes. I mean I'm sure our anxiety causes us to act in strange ways that turns off a lot of people.

[Star Gazer]

Ages ago, when my boss saw my thinking patterns and how I deal with uncertainty with imagining worst case scenarios (I do it at work too) - he asked me to do an exercise. Write down my current concern and a prediction on how it will play out. The prediction for me is almost always negative (actually the more I care about something, the more negative it is). And then write down what actually happens. Do this over a longer period and then calculate the % of worst case scenarios that ended up coming true.

 

I avoided doing this but maybe I should start now...

 

With all due respect, that sounds like a horrible idea.

 

Example: Worst case scenario: A first date doesn't turn in to a second. Do you know what the percentage of that would be, if you're dating the way you should be?

 

This sort of thing can make your fears and anxieties intensify. I strongly urge you NOT to do it.

[Kamille]

It's silly but I hate being seen exercising by people who know me. I think it's just looking sweaty and disheveled. I'm one of those people who has trouble going out in a public in a place where I might run into people I know unless I look perfect. I rarely leave the house without makeup, for example. It's probably this root fear that my attractiveness hinges on brushing up, rather than natural good looks.

 

But maybe I can get around this by running in the early morning.

 

What was the ad that used to go something like: "If only real life was like this?" There was this guy checking out this girl, they were both on treadmills. He plays telephone to tell her something like "You look hot! You sweat like a man", and the catch was that she actually smiled and liked the compliment, instead of being put off by his brutal masculine honesty.

 

I think about that commercial often when I'm sweating it out at the gym. I actually sincerely believe most men think a sweaty woman looks hot.

[Star Gazer]

I wonder if another thing that might help both of us is to not let ourselves get excited when a guy does show interest in any small way.

 

Kamille is right on target when she says that we derive a natural high from getting affirmation, which quickly crashes when it is followed by any possible sign of rejection.

 

So, in a sense, letting myself get a high from positive feedback is really dangerous.

 

I've been saying this for WEEKS! So you clearly haven't been reading ANYTHING I've read about how much you rely on external validation.

 

You shouldn't be getting a high from a dude's feedback. You should be getting it from your own.

[SadandConfusedWA]

With all due respect, that sounds like a horrible idea.

 

Example: Worst case scenario: A first date doesn't turn in to a second. Do you know what the percentage of that would be, if you're dating the way you should be?

 

This sort of thing can make your fears and anxieties intensify. I strongly urge you NOT to do it.

 

 

I think he meant it in regards to work. I always freak out that my presentations won't go well. I am always sure that I will crash and burn. And it always ends up great. So in that respect it could work.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I wonder if another thing that might help both of us is to not let ourselves get excited when a guy does show interest in any small way.

 

Kamille is right on target when she says that we derive a natural high from getting affirmation, which quickly crashes when it is followed by any possible sign of rejection.

 

So, in a sense, letting myself get a high from positive feedback is really dangerous.

 

 

So true. We attach WAY too much meaning to any small sign of interest and get elated. 5 days ago politician texted me "Hey what did you have for dinner tonight"... and I was all OMGOMGOMG so excited... Maybe he really likes me. Maybe this means he wants me back!!

 

Reality check: he was bored and decided to shot off a lame text to someone that he knows will reply.

 

And now no...contact since. So I feel really low. But the thing is, I should not have felt so high over a lame text! If only I saw it for what it is, I wouldn't feel low when I didn't hear from him.

 

This kind of ties back to thinking in black and white terms, or swinging from one extreme to the other.

[shadowplay]

So true. We attach WAY too much meaning to any small sign of interest and get elated. 5 days ago politician texted me "Hey what did you have for dinner tonight"... and I was all OMGOMGOMG so excited... Maybe he really likes me. Maybe this means he wants me back!!

 

Reality check: he was bored and decided to shot off a lame text to someone that he knows will reply.

 

And now no...contact since. So I feel really low. But the thing is, I should not have felt so high over a lame text! If only I saw it for what it is, I wouldn't feel low when I didn't hear from him.

 

This kind of ties back to thinking in black and white terms, or swinging from one extreme to the other.

 

Yeah, I'm exactly the same way. It's physiological. Like the second I get a text from a guy I like, no matter how lame it may be, my heart accelerates and my mood skyrockets.

 

So basically I overreact to signs that are either positive or negative. If something seems at all positive, I cling to it rather than judging what it really means. I want to believe it's positive. If something seems at all negative, I swing to the opposite extreme.

[Kamille]

I wonder if another thing that might help both of us is to not let ourselves get excited when a guy does show interest in any small way.

 

Kamille is right on target when she says that we derive a natural high from getting affirmation, which quickly crashes when it is followed by any possible sign of rejection.

 

So, in a sense, letting myself get a high from positive feedback is really dangerous.

 

hmmm. interesting idea. At the same time, I did get that high every time bf got in touch with me. I just never got the low. I still get excited every time Bf gets in touch with me.

 

But I think for me his attention wasn't ever an affirmation other than that he was thinking about me. I always took it at face value. "He called. It means he wanted to talk to me. How nice!" "He wrote an email: how sweet! He was thinking about me". More importantly, I was pleased that I got to talk to him. I was crazy about him from day one and just really hoped I would get to know him more. But I never felt like "it had to work out".

 

One thing that I think you do Shadow is that you tend to put pressure on yourself so that situations "have to work out". In almost every situation where LSers try to tell you to relax, you actually come up with reasons as to why this one situation is different and has to work out.

 

Now it's your preoccupation with your roomies. Somehow you feel that if things don't "work out" with this most recent guy, you'll be rendering yourself vulnerable to your roomies' judgement. They became a source of "I have to be perfect" pressure.

 

A part of me wonders which comes first, justification as to why "things just have to work out or else people will realize I'm not perfect" or the desire to be perfect. Personally, I think it's the latter. Your perfectionism overrides your ability to appreciate situations for what they are.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Kamille

[shadowplay]

hmmm. interesting idea. At the same time, I did get that high every time bf got in touch with me. I just never got the low. I still get excited every time Bf gets in touch with me.

 

But I think for me his attention wasn't ever an affirmation other than that he was thinking about me. I always took it at face value. "He called. It means he wanted to talk to me. How nice!" "He wrote an email: how sweet! He was thinking about me". More importantly, I was pleased that I got to talk to him. I was crazy about him from day one and just really hoped I would get to know him more. But I never felt like "it had to work out".

 

One thing that I think you do Shadow is that you tend to put pressure on yourself so that situations "have to work out". In almost every situation where LSers try to tell you to relax, you actually come up with reasons as to why this one situation is different and has to work out.

 

Now it's your preoccupation with your roomies. Somehow you feel that if things don't "work out" with this most recent guy, you'll be rendering yourself vulnerable to your roomies' judgement. They became a source of "I have to be perfect" pressure.

 

A part of me wonders which comes first, justification as to why "things just have to work out or else people will realize I'm not perfect" or the desire to be perfect. Personally, I think it's the latter. Your perfectionism overrides your ability to appreciate situations for what they are.

 

You're totally right! Every situation seems like an exception to the rule.

 

I was crazy about him from day one and just really hoped I would get to know him more.

This is exactly how I feel about J.

 

But I never felt like "it had to work out".

 

This is the part I have trouble with. It's really, really difficult for me to have a taste of someone I like a lot and then have it end.

[shadowplay]

Please convince me guys that it is a terrible idea to message him about what nights are good for me this week.

 

I last heard from him last night when he invited me to hang out at that joint with his buddies. I'm freaking out a bit that I haven't heard from him all day.

 

Before last night, earlier that day in our last correspondence he suggested we be in touch about which night this week works for both of us and also that we should go to the fair together when all of us (roommates) have a free night. But those are both up in the air, since we haven't set a specific time.

 

I should wait for him to get back to me, right??

 

Did he take my declining his offer to hang out last night because I was tired as a sign of disinterest?